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/sci/ - Science & Math

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3139084 No.3139084 [Reply] [Original]

So /sci/, I'm a 3rd year EE student and I want to get into bitcoin mining. FPGAs seem to be the NBT in BTC mining, so as I have a few hundred spare $$ I'm thinking of getting two DE2 115 boards using my academic ID and using them to hash. Note this mining enterprise is almost purely inquisitive, so I don't really care if I don't make a lot of money.

Good idea y/n?

>> No.3139092

whatever floats yer boat geek.

>> No.3139106

>>3139092
Why does 4ch hold such animosity towards bitcoin? I would have thought that /sci/ at least would be raving about it. Did I miss the boat or something?

>> No.3139117

me again...no animosity, i just have no idea whether its a good idea for you personally...i dont know you.

>> No.3139125

>bitcoin
Ponzi scheme for nerds. Don't bother.

>> No.3139128

what type of board is pictured OP

>> No.3139133

You're too stupid to be an EE. Switch to economics.

>> No.3139136

>>3139117
FUCKING passive aggressive much?

I'll rephrase:

Do you think that designing and testing firmware for bitcoin mining on FPGAs is an interesting project to do in my holidays and could it potentially increase my employability upon graduation?

>> No.3139142

>>3139106
Its like flying cars and the robot uprising; just scifi fantasy with no solid grounding in reality. People who confuse futurism with science aren't welcome here.

>> No.3139143

>>3139128
DE2 115....

>>3139133
okay bro :(

>> No.3139151

>>3139136
>Do you think that designing and testing firmware for bitcoin mining on FPGAs is an interesting project to do in my holidays and could it potentially increase my employability upon graduation?
Perhaps, even if it turns out to be a colossal waste of time and proves the obvious (that your thing will spend far more money on electricity than will ever be gained from bitcoins generated)

>> No.3139154

>>3139136

>Do you think that designing and testing firmware for bitcoin mining on FPGAs is an interesting project to do in my holidays

No idea

>and could it potentially increase my employability upon graduation?

Don't hope for much with this, It's pretty hard to get independent projects recognized by employers unless it's something remarkable or affiliated with your school in some way. I'm not in EE and don't know anything about your project, but I doubt you'll be able to get much out of it for career prospects.

>> No.3139157

>>3139142
You realise that people are actually making money out of this right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzBCbO8U45w

And besides, I just want to do this as a part-time hobby.

>> No.3139160
File: 45 KB, 436x435, 1283118719101.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3139160

>>3139125
>Ponzi scheme for nerds
>mfw miners don't put any money into the system

>> No.3139172

>>3139157
>You realise that people are actually making money out of this right?
Yes, the scam artists at the very top, not you. That's how ponzi schemes work.

>> No.3139173

that board is for pussies! get an old fashion bread board and some chips and learn that shit the hard way.

>> No.3139175

Proposal to rename this currency "autism kroners"

>> No.3139180

>>3139106
>Why does 4ch hold such animosity towards AMWAY?
Nobody wants to talk about stupid "easy money" scams.

>> No.3139181

Asperger's-based fiat currency sounds like a terrible idea.

>> No.3139183

Seriously, what the fuck is this supposed to do? It's even more useless than other dumbass private currencies because it doesn't even exist in the real world.

>> No.3139189

Hey guys, remember Flooz?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flooz.com

>> No.3139190

>>3139173
Did that last year buddy.

>>3139151
Pretty much what I'm thinking.

>> No.3139200

>>3139157
Yes, believe it or not.

As long as people are buying/using bitcoins, they have some value. If you bought them when they were cheaper you will have some unrealized gains, potentially.

This is also where the term "speculative bubble" becomes relevant.

Basically, Mr. Nakamoto is just pandering to Snow Crash-loving Japanophile nerds who lack knowledge of economics to call out this pump-and-dump for what it is.

And it's working!

>> No.3139202

>>3139160
>computer hardware and electricity are free

>spending money and effort getting something doesn't help confuse people into thinking it has value

>> No.3139206

This is a terrible currency because it's so unstable your money could be worth twice as much or half as much overnight (or over the space of a few hours) and theres already so many people bitcoin mining for their pretend money that they had to raise the difficulty of hashing a block by 50% last week.
Also the bouts of hyperinflation and hyperdeflation is hilarious. The value of bitcoins has gone from 1 dollar to 9 dollars, then back down to 5 dollars, then up to 8 dollars in the space of about 2 weeks at this point. And the thing is is that this is solely because the russian mafia used it for money laundering and bought like 50,000 bitcoins.

>> No.3139209

>>3139206
Also it should be noted that the rate of bitcoin creation is constant, so the more mining you do via massive rigs of CUDA enabled sli card setups to massively (and wastefully) hash blocks the less money you actually make. If everyone on earth suddenly had a pressing need to get bitcoins no one would actually get any.

Oh also the massive bitcoin rigs are enough to get the police knocking on your door with a search warrant for weed, because of the stupidly large electricity bills.

>> No.3139210

Peer-to-peer. Unencrypted wallet.dat file. Not widely accepted as currency. Value is entirely speculative.

Your money would be better spent on novelty chocolate coins.

If every single person using Bitcoins thinks he's gonna get rich off the others... well, you can't all be right.

>> No.3139211

I've worked with those exact DE2 boards, they're pretty easy to work with.

As for bitcoin mining, I'm not really sure. I've only heard of bitcoins in passing before

>> No.3139212

The US dollar is also good because it's too large to buy up a large majority of the market to manipulate it with. Like what is happening with bitcoins. right now.

>> No.3139213

>>3139200
Oh god... the old circular definition trick.

"As long as people are willing to pay for something, it has the value people are willing to pay. Therefore, there is no such thing as a scam: if you can talk someone into paying good money for something they otherwise wouldn't have paid anything for, you have created the value of it and that is productive work just like any other."

No.

>> No.3139219

it's got all the inflexibility and disassociation from useful economic output that makes the gold standard a bad idea, only without the potential security against hyperinflation.

>> No.3139220

>>3139211
Yeah I worked with them too first sem last year, that's partly why I want to use them.

It should be explicitly noted that I am not going into this to make money, or have any expectations that I will. As to power consumption, I doubt two DE2s running 24/7 will exceed 93kWh / day and garner a visit from the cops.

Also, electricity is free at college.

>> No.3139224

>>3139213
As a mathematician I think the idea of the BitCoin is brilliant... for the dude who created them. I was reading some article which says he possesses 1/3 of the bitcoins in existence currently which means he will make millions if he correctly anticipates the bubble/crash and offloads them all. Everything about the BitCoin seems designed to give people the idea it carries some sort of legitimacy and the cryptocurrency method of distributing the coins does a great job of making sure it doesn't crash too soon while giving BitCoin users a (false) feeling of scarcity. Basically the dude had a brilliant idea to get himself rich while simultaneously gaining internet/academic credibility and if he doesn't lose his ass by refusing to offload before the crash he will cash in on it bigtime.

>> No.3139226

i don't understand this. at all. whats a bitcoin? what are you people talking about? i feel like i'm 12 years old and what is this

>> No.3139228

If buying drugs on Tor or trading for Etsy-grade I <3 BitCoin clothing and trinkets sounds appealing, Folding@coin is for you

>> No.3139233

no one other than Stallmanesque open-source weirdos and money launderers would ever accept them as payment.

>> No.3139238

Shitcoins

>> No.3139246

>>3139151
>proves the obvious
Scientific research is full of trials that "prove" the "obvious"
Every now and then you find out something that's not so obvious.

>> No.3139248

>>3139238
>>3139233
>>3139228
>>3139226

I see the /g/tards are here.

>> No.3139259

>>3139209
nvidia cards are not good for mining, you mean ati cards

>> No.3139277

i read the wiki on bitcoin and i still dont get it. so what are you mining?

it's like you're generating invisible money by "mining" nothing at all. and basically if you have a powerful computer and make it "mine" you are rewarded with invisible nothings. nothings that apparently appreciate in value over time.

>> No.3139279

>>3139233
If you can exhange them for things that are worth money then they are worth money, aren't they

>> No.3139288

>>3139277
mining = hashing large numbers
you're basically finding a numbers

>> No.3139289

>>3139277
mining = the p2p system is 'paying' you for validating bitcoin transactions by checking transaction hash keys against a checksum (computationally hard, thus requires a lot of processing power). In this way bitcoins are generated according to a rule like 0.01BTC / transaction checked (scalable).

>> No.3139324

ok... so i set my computer to "hash number" and my computer will process and verify payments made by other people. and then i will get bitcoins in return. and then the bitcoins can be used to buy things or be converted to conventional money.

so, how much money could a basic $600 gaming computer generate approx? or do i need special hardware?

>> No.3139338

>>3139324
If market forces are working you will be taking losses unless your computer is energy-efficient.

>> No.3139340

"According to Big Think, bitcoin will be a bank for Anonymous. "The hacktivists now have a virtual currency that's untraceable, unhackable, and completely Anonymous."

http://blogs.computerworld.com/18335/bitcoin_miners_busted_police_confuse_bitcoin_power_usage_for_po
t_farm?source=rss_blogs

>> No.3139344

>>3139324
the only way i see to make a profit from bitcoins is if you live in a dorm or with your parents where you are not paying for electricity. Also consider the wear and tear on your hardware, when that breaks replacing it is not free.

>> No.3139362

ok, so the big problem with making bitcoins by setting your computer to mine for them...

is that the cost of electricity your computer goes through is greater then the value of the bitcoins it can generate.

BUT if i built a simple windmill... generating that electricity to bitcoins would be a lot easier then the massive costs and equipment associated with feeding a windmill back into the grid.

so what i need to do is build an energy efficient computer with a good gpu and then hook it up to a homemade windmill and leave it to sit for a month and see how much money it could generate...

>> No.3139375

>>3139324
>special hardware

Well that's what I started this thread about. Basically FPGAs can be optimised to do one task very efficiently, i.e. bitcoin mining. Supposedly I could get 20Mhashes/Joule using an FPGA wheras a top end GPU might only give me 2Mhashes/Joule.

In other words, you could use your GPUs to mine, but it could potentially use 10x more power than dedicated/specialised hardware.

If you look at the YT link I posted earlier the guy explains that his $8000 investment in 8 ATI GPUs only yields 1 block every other day (~$150/day), and it costs him ~$7.50/day in electricity.

>> No.3139385

Meh, the bitcoin economy is currently overinflated due to speculation and little possible use.

The bitcoin economy is also exceptionally vulnerable to catastrophic collapse if for whatever reason an exploit arise.

Also its already to late to make any real money.

It might have use as some sort of token exchange for various illegal and anonymous transactions, but I really don't see the point. The whole mining thing just seems gimmicky to draw people in. Have fun, I'm not getting involved with it.

>> No.3139396

>>3139375
and yet at that rate he would have made his $8000 back after 2 months...

and you think you can get two of these "de2 115" boards for several hundred and make money more efficiently. about 10x more efficiently.

so theoretically you could make about $75 worth a day from your initial investment of several hundred.

even if you only make even a quarter of what you think you will you'll still manage to pay off the initial investment within a couple months

right?

>> No.3139401

i've read that there are services that let you use bitcoins to buy anything at all on amazon

>> No.3139458

this is a total mindfuck

>> No.3139470

>>3139396
Assuming one FPGA at ~$350 can get ~300Mhashes/sec, two will yield 600MH/s right?

The guy on YT was getting 1.6 GH/s out of each of his FOUR machines, and getting one block about once every two days. So best case estimate for me getting a block is about...21 days. So potentially it will take me at least 1.5 months to pay off the FPGAs.

Bear in mind I am not doing this for money, as I have said previously.

>> No.3139482

>>3139470
me again

>>3139396
by the way I think you mis-understood the efficiency thing. I was saying that an FPGA can potentially do the same task for 10x less POWER, not 10x more SPEED for the same power.

>> No.3139489

I don't understand this. You guys are comparing big ass numbers to other big ass numbers and getting paid in some form for doing so?

why does the world need big ass numbers checked against other big ass numbers? And why are they paying you to do so?

>> No.3139496

>>3139458
>>3139489
What the fuck are you cunts doing on /sci/ anyway?

Go back to /b/ or wherever you came from.

>> No.3139509

>>3139489
well as i understand it. what you're doing is verifying the transactions made by other people.

example: send bitcoins from person a to person b. well now to verify those bitcoins the transaction is processed by a bunch of other computers, to prevent hacking or something.

so when you're bitcoin mining you're verifying a bunch of bitcoin transactions to make sure they're legit. and you get paid in bitcoins for doing so.

but 10 minutes ago i had never even heard of bitcoins so i could be wrong

>> No.3139565

>>3139509

well that doesn't make sense. why are there so many bitcoin transactions if very few people know anything about or even have bitcoins?

>> No.3139588

>>3139509
No, you're not doing anything useful.

Bitcoin mining is kind of a mathematical game for your computer to play, a bunch of puzzles for it to solve.

When it solves a puzzle, you get a point, which has to be registered on the network (or someone else might get it first). Then the network keeps track of you "spending" the point by transferring it to other people.

It's basically like WoW gold, only everyone's using bots, you can't use it to buy sweet gear because there's no game to use the gear in, and people are talking about it as if it should be money for some reason, when there's no reason at all.

>> No.3139642
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3139642

>>3139588
>and people are talking about it as if it should be money for some reason, when there's no reason at all.

For the same reason any other currency has value, because it's useful as a medium of exchange!

fucking christ /sci/ can be thick

>> No.3139658

>>3139642
Except bit-coins can't be exchanged for anything.

>> No.3139663

>>3139658
Shouldn't the CPU time you put into it have value, though?

>> No.3139675
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3139675

>>3139658
>Except bit-coins can't be exchanged for anything.
Except for you know, cash
https://mtgox.com/trade/sell

>> No.3139684

>>3139642
There are basically three kinds of currencies:
1) the currency is a valuable commodity (ex. gold coins, cigarettes in prison),
2) the currency is guaranteed redeemable for something specific of value (ex. bank notes redeemable for precious metal),
3) the currency is one that the government is shoving down your throat, so you can't legally refuse it (ex. modern fiat currency).

There's no fourth "just because we, some random nobodies, say it's money, even though we're not guaranteeing that you can redeem it for anything specific" kind.

>> No.3139699
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3139699

>>3139684
>1) the currency is a SCARCE commodity (ex. gold coins, cigarettes in prison)
ftfy

(oh shit nigga, that's what bitcoin is)

>> No.3139715

>>3139699
No. Not just "scarce", but valuable: it must have intrinsic value.

And before you go full retard on me, that is to say it must be useful for something other than trade. The intrinsic value of something is its use-value.

>> No.3139721

>>3139684
>There's no fourth "just because we, some random nobodies, say it's money, even though we're not guaranteeing that you can redeem it for anything specific" kind.

Well, yes there is. Because the bitcoin community is saying that they will now honour bitcoin purchases with real-world commodities. The bitcoin network is trusting that other bitcoin users will also honour their arrangement, basically the whole system is built on trust, and the fact that bitcoin has several advantages compared to other currencies when used online.

Think of it like the Solomon islands and several other cultures around the world; shells were used as currency. They could be found on the beach for no cost, and they had little or no inherent value. The community had a trust-based arrangement that these shells could be redeemed for services or goods.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_money

>> No.3139734
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3139734

>>3139715
>intrinsic value

>> No.3139747

I have now invented beejbucks. Only women can earn beejbucks and only by sucking me off. Beejbucks can be exchanged for a dicking. Any takers ladies?

>> No.3139753

>>3139721
They valued the shells as decorative items.

They didn't all get together and agree, "Oh, we're going to start using these worthless things for money, even though we wouldn't want them for any other reason." They started out by wanting lots of shells because they're pretty.

See this key point? The wanting of the shells came first. They started with this demand, and the custom of trading them for other things started naturally.

>> No.3139759

>>3139734
I refer all retards in the thread, who have a problem with the concept of intrinsic value, to this post: >>3139213

>> No.3139763
File: 29 KB, 640x426, wat.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3139763

>this whole thread

>> No.3139767

>>3139753
>guys I'm sick of governments controlling value/distribution of different currencies, let's create a new virtual currency free from those limitations that anyone can use

BAM MUTUALLY RECOGNISED INHERENT VALUE

>> No.3139784

>>3139767
Hah. No.

That is a handful of idiots buying into a scam.

The inevitable outcome is that they'll all be bitter that nobody will take their "money".

But really, they deserve it. Whatever they're saying on the surface, most people in this understand that it's a scam, but they think they've got the inside track on it and are going to be scamming other people rather than getting scammed.

That's the cleverness of the plan: by letting other people "mine" bitcoins, the inventor recruits a whole army of petty scammers to spread ridiculous lies about how it's a new kind of money. It's like a flash pyramid.

>> No.3139808

>>3139784
see

>>3139675

retard, read the thread before you reply.

>> No.3139813

Okay, this is just stupid. Gold has virtually no "real value", having few uses beyond jewellry for which no good substitutes exist. People invest in gold primarily as a speculative instrument and because of its emotional appeal. You want a good hedge against inflation? Invest in commodities. They show actual real return over the long run. Stop listening to Ron Paul or reading mises.org. The former knows nothing about economics, and the latter does not practice science. There is nothing wrong about fiat currency and "printing money", which are nowhere as worse as asset backed currencies.

>> No.3139822

>>3139808
>>The inevitable outcome is that they'll all be bitter that nobody will take their "money".
>But some people are paying for it now! And not even very much less than it costs to make it!
Do you have trouble with the idea of "inevitable outcome"?

>> No.3139825

>>3139813
Gold has broad applications in laser, light and radiation research (PS: most spacecraft have gold foil on them)

>> No.3139830

>>3139813
gold is a commodity you fucking idiot

>> No.3139831

>>3139813
>Gold has virtually no "real value"
Yup. No uses for a malleable, ductile, corrosion-free metal with an attractive color. If it were as common as iron, we'd probably never touch the stuff, just leave it lying around and never make anything out of it.

>> No.3139839

>>3139822
>keeps insisting that his outcome is 'inevitable'
>even when proof demonstrating otherwise is presented

Show me your economic model/examples that demonstrate this 'inevitable' bitcoin crash. The onus of proof is on you, not me. I have provided examples showing that BTC is exchangeable for real world currency and goods.

>> No.3139844

>>3139825
Other precious metals could be used in anodization or conduction material. Good substitutes exist.

>> No.3139845

>>3139839
>My unbacked funny-money pyramid scheme with no government support is going to stabilize into the basis of the world economy.

>The onus of proof is on you, not me.

>> No.3139851

>>3139845
>My unbacked funny-money pyramid scheme with no government support is going to stabilize into the basis of the world economy.

I never said that. You know it and I know it. Stop pulling stuff out of your ass.

>> No.3139855
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3139855

>>3139822
Are you retarded? Do you think exchangers engaging in charity? Exchangers pay for bitcoin because (gasp) people are willing to pay for bitcoin! And why are people willing to pay for bc? Could it be that some people find value in the unique properties of bc? Nope, must be a scam

>> No.3139858

i wonder if there are any hookers accepting bitcoin

>> No.3139860

>>3139839
>I have provided examples showing that BTC is exchangeable for real world currency and goods.

"I have provided examples showing that investments in Mr. Ponzi's operations have shown good returns."

>> No.3139861

>>3139855
>>Exchangers pay for bitcoin because (gasp) people are fucking stupid willing to pay for all kind of dumb shit!

>> No.3139863

>>3139830
No. To quote the wiki page:

"A commodity is a good for which there is demand, but which is supplied without qualitative differentiation across a market."

Ergo, gold is not a commodity because it has uses beyond the industrial sector.

>>3139831
see
>>3139844
I like how you left out the "good substitutes"
part of my post.


>>3139839
Deflation. Hoarding.

>> No.3139866

>>3139855
EVERYBODY paying for bitcoin is a speculator, with the possible exception of a few mentally ill people.

Every one of them figuring he'll be able to screw another guy further down the chain.

Pure pyramid.

>> No.3139867

>>3139860
>>3139861
Retards.

I thought at least /sci/ could be a bastion of intellectual discussion on 4chan...

Oh that's right, it's summer.

>> No.3139873
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3139873

Lol, as soon as this gets big enough for traders/brokers/etc. to notice all you nerds are completely fucked. Completely.

>> No.3139878

>>3139867
>I thought I could pump up some suckers and maybe sell some of my worthless bitcoins.

>> No.3139879

i test currency orally. if i can exchange it for a blowjob i consider it legit currency

>> No.3139883

>>3139863
> quotes a definition which declares gold to be a commodity
> still claims gold isn't a commodity
> go to wikipedia's commodity page
> Generally, these are basic resources and agricultural products such as iron ore, crude oil, coal, salt, sugar, coffee beans, soybeans, aluminium, copper, rice, wheat, gold, silver, palladium, and platinum.
> aluminium, copper, rice, wheat, gold, silver, palladium, and platinum
> gold

>> No.3139889
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3139889

>>3139863
>"A commodity is a good. . .without qualitative differentiation across a market."

>Ergo, gold is not a commodity because it has uses beyond the industrial sector.

wow, just wow

I know /sci/ isn't the sharpest tack in drawer, but good god!

>> No.3139890

>>3139866

There is no 'chain'. Miners validate transactions, nothing more. The coin generated by this validation is controlled by the open source software such that infinite coin cannot be generated and as processing power/nodes increases/decreases the amount of coin generated adjusts accordingly.

>>3139863
Hoarding would be pointless, a single node could never generate any significant amount of BTC required to induce deflation.

>> No.3139894

>>3139889
hey, /sci/ is correcting him

>> No.3139896

>>3139863
>qualitative differentiation
You don't understand what that means. It means it is fungible. Gold is treated identically regardless of the supplier. It is therefore a commodity. Having uses in more than one industry doesn't make something not a commodity.

>> No.3139898

>>3139883
Did you ignore everything I said? Gold as you consider it cannot be considered a commodity. It does not meet the criteria specified in the page, namely "supplied without qualitative differentiation across a market.[1] A commodity has full or partial fungibility; that is, the market treats it as equivalent or nearly so no matter who produces it. "

>> No.3139900

>>3139890
>There is no 'chain'.
Good point. Once one person buys a bitcoin, it is extremely unlikely that he will ever be able to pawn it off on anyone else in exchange for anything of value.

Nonetheless, the presumption of a chain is the only reason anyone is bother to buy these coins, or indeed, bothering to mine them.

>> No.3139905
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3139905

>>3139866
>EVERYBODY paying for bitcoin is a speculator
hahahaha oh wow

I see the problem, /sci/ is a bunch of socially isolated losers who don't know what BTC is primarily used for!

>> No.3139906

>>3139898
Gold, being a basic element, is the same from everyone.

>> No.3139912

>>3139905
>If I just can turn my idle trolling skills into profitable SCAMMING skills, I'll have it made!

>> No.3139914
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3139914

>>3139898
>he doesn't think gold is fungible

>> No.3139917

>>3139813
Other than bizarrely not knowing that gold is a commodity, your thinking is correct. The price of gold is inflated due to speculation, which is why no one should be buying it now. Most commodities don't suffer this.

>> No.3139919

>>3139905
drugs? laundering money?

>> No.3139921

>>3139890
That's why a large amount of traders would need to speculate, as noted by
>>3139873


>>3139896
I derped. I meant to say "industrial sector commodity". Equities would be a more appropriate word in this context.

>> No.3139922

As a result of this thread, I am now mining bit coins, On my Laptop and PC system, I live in a community in which i do not pay anything for electricity so I'm not going to worry about the bill, even if i get 1 bitcoin win in a week i will be happy it turns out i can trade it in for 400 bucks, so real or not, if its going to make any sort of money and some jackass is going to pay for it. Why shouldn't i try.

>> No.3139935

So my corrected post should be:

Okay, this is just stupid. Gold has virtually no "real value", having few uses beyond jewellry for which no good substitutes exist. People invest in gold primarily as a speculative instrument and because of its emotional appeal. You want a good hedge against inflation? Invest in equities. They show actual real return over the long run. Or commodities with a high volume of production and stable consumption. Stop listening to Ron Paul or reading mises.org. The former knows nothing about economics, and the latter does not practice science. There is nothing wrong about fiat currency and "printing money", which are nowhere as worse as asset backed currencies.

>> No.3139937

>>3139922
you're going to be rich

>> No.3139941

>>3139935
Yes, absolutely correct. Invest in equities.

>> No.3139945

>>3139922
You should set up a small aluminum refining operation while you're at it.

I should get into business selling hydroelectric generators to people who get water included but have to pay their own electric bill.

>> No.3139947

>>3139941
Yeah. Maybe I should get some sleep.

>> No.3139954

>>3139947
if you mine for dream bucks you can exchange it for alpaca socks you wear in your next dream.

>> No.3139965

The thing about money is that for something to work as money you need a GUARANTEE that you'll be able to spend it later. With fiat money this guarantee comes with an actual law that says that everyone has to accept it as money. The money is as good as the authority of the government that sponsors it.

With commodity-based money, the guarantee comes from the usefulness of the commodity (with gold, this is jewellery).

With something like bitcoin, if everyone decides to stop accepting it, you're stuck holding the bag.

>> No.3139973

>>3139954
lol
nighty nite sci

>> No.3139977

>>3139935

>There is nothing wrong about fiat currency
>talk about gold being a good investment

wut? People invest in gold BECAUSE they don't want to worry about fiat currency. Even if the money market fluctuates like crazy and currency goes to shit or inflates, gold is pretty consistent. That is the EXACT RISK associated with investing in some fledgling online currency. If it's deemed worthless for some reason, all of it is gone forever. That's the exact opposite of gold.

Your gold point is fine, but it literally argues AGAINST investing in something flimsy like bitcoins.

>> No.3139986

>>3139977
I think that was the point.

>> No.3139993

>>3139986

I shall repeat

>There is nothing wrong about fiat currency

His post makes total sense up until then. He argues about gold being a good investment because of its safety, and then says there's nothing wrong with investing in the least safe thing imaginable.

>> No.3140004

>>3139154
this guy's wrong. in EE employers love to see that you are excited about what you're doing. if you're doing something outside of work or school like this it will be a plus because it will show that you really like it and you are attempting to gain experience that's not a requirement to graduate...

consider getting something that you won't have to explain to your interview though. if he doesn't know what bitcoins are you're probably going to feel fairly stupid trying to explain it to him, or atleast i would....

>> No.3140019

>>3140004

Do you honestly think that the average interviewer is going to give a shit? More than three quarters of the interviews I've done in my life were done by HR people, and if you try and talk about some hobby project it will get you absolutely nowhere. All they're interested in is official shit with an administrative system to back up your story.

Unless you have some tangible evidence of your work that you can show your interviewer, don't expect it to help much. Even if the guy interviewing you knows his shit, there's no reason for every person who goes into the interview to not just bullshit about doing some electronics project and pulling a picture off the internet to prove they did it. The reason that clubs where you design stuff are good is because they generally have websites showing that it's legitimate and references that can vouch for you actually doing something.

Employers love you showing an interest in EE. It's just that if you do something in your spare time that doesn't produce anything but virtual coins, you better go in with a plan as to how you're going to market that to your employer.

>> No.3140023

>>3139977
>gold is pretty consistent
Gold fluctuates more than any major currency. Stop listening to Ron Paul.

>> No.3140034

>>3140023

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_as_an_investment

Yeah, Wikipedia, hurp durp

>Investors generally buy gold as a hedge or harbor against economic, political, or social fiat currency crises (including investment market declines, burgeoning national debt, currency failure, inflation, war and social unrest).

Stop trying to be a unique butterfly. It's not as consistent as plenty of investments, but the idea is that fiat currency (especially some emerging online one) can literally go from something to nothing overnight. That isn't a risk with gold.

Compared to plenty of investments, gold is pretty risky and prone to fluctuations. It's still a thousand times more stable than new online currencies.

>> No.3140069

Lovin' that the two top threads in /sci/ right now is the stormfag one about black people and this Ron Paul bullshit.

For a bunch of science-minded nerds you guys sure are fucking stupid.

>> No.3140077

>>3140034

Not that guy, just have a question. If you invest in gold, isn't it in your best interest to watch the world burn? I mean, if I had two tons of gold just sitting in a vault somewhere, I would make damn sure that most of the rest of the world dissolves into total and complete chaos, because gold always increases in times of chaos. Keeping countries currencies off the gold standard seems to prevent them from diplomatically trying to play the system so that their dollar is worth more.

>> No.3140090

>>3140077
If you have a lot of any scarce good, it is in your interest to watch the world burn, unless your scarce good would get burned with it.

>> No.3140095

I have one of these altera dinosaur boards... DONT MINE WITH FUCKING FPGA FOOL

just use a grafix card

also I dont read any other posts because I dont care about what anyone has to say because I know how right I am

>> No.3140100

>>3140090

I mean gold in particular because at a certain point, things are fucked up enough that most scarce goods are completely pointless. Is there a great need of platinum in a bombed out country? I'd figure that the basics of human survival would become more valuable. Gold has been used as a currency for so long that that might be the only precious metal with any value in a place like that.

>> No.3140110

>>3140034
People buy gold as a hedge or harbor because they are programmed to do so by incessant radio ads for it, not because it's a good idea. Gold has dropped more overnight than the dollar ever come CLOSE to in its history. Just pull up a graph or two.

Only people deluded by the goldmongers talk about fiat currencies going to zero. The dollar has no more probability of going to zero in the next 100 years than gold does (that is 0 chance). Gold is virtually assured of loosing about half its value, probably in the span of a week or two, probably within the next 5 years. I'll type that in to the wikipedia article if it will make you believe it.

>> No.3140112

>>3140077
>because gold always increases in times of chaos.
Turn off the talk radio, dude, and look up the great depression.

>> No.3140120

>>3140100
Platinum would be useful, if gold was.

But if you want to hoard something useful for the end of the world, buy canned food.

>> No.3140126

>>3140100
> I'd figure that the basics of human survival would become more valuable.
Then gold would be worthless. It does nothing to aid in basic human survival. That's why only relatively rich empires used gold for currency. For most of human history, currency was things like goats, cows, salt.

>> No.3140130

>Gold has dropped more overnight than the dollar ever come CLOSE to in its history. Just pull up a graph or two

That sure would be applicable if we were talking about investing in the dollar, but it's a shame we're talking about some random online currency with no history.

Ron Paul told me that on talk radio though, so what do I know

>> No.3140135

>>3140110

Do you have any idea what this argument is about? Where the fuck did the dollar come into this?

>> No.3140162

>>3140135
>Where the fuck did the dollar come into this?
Because people keep talking about fiat currencies. Bitcoin is not a fiat currency.

>> No.3140171

>>3140162

Well I wasn't here when people were mentioning fiat currencies, but how are bitcoins stable at all? It might not involve the government, but I hardly see how it's more stable than gold. Yeah, the dollar won't zero out overnight. With bitcoins though, if some group cracks their encryption, wouldn't the currency become worthless if it wasn't fixed quickly enough? I don't see any risk like this existing with the dollar.

>> No.3140191

>>3140171
I was never trying to making a case for bitcoins, just against gold. I made the point earlier that unlike commodities and fiat currencies, there is nothing to whatsoever to guarantee the future demand of bitcoins, so it's would be crazy to store any value in them.

>> No.3140209

A relatively inexpensive FPGA is going to give you very good performance compared to GPUs.

If you want a cool project to impress employers with, you'd be better off with something more concrete, not "I mined for imaginary money".

>> No.3140217

>>3140209
>A relatively inexpensive FPGA is NOT going to give you very good performance compared to GPUs.

FFFFFFfixed

>> No.3140379

OP here, this thread has gone retarded.

>>3140095
You're an idiot.