/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.3134367]

Is college worth the financial and hardship investment?

[Anonymous No.3134376]

not if youre in it for purely monetary reasons

[Anonymous No.3134386]

>>3134376
So you guys are willing to break your backs earning the salary of people who do jobs that anyone could do without any education?

[Anonymous No.3134394]

Getting the education for free and get payed to do it? Oh wait, you're in America. I guess I have nothing to add then.

[Anonymous No.3134409]

>>3134394
Let me guess
You're British and have to pay 3 times the amount of your predecessors for a college education
dohohohohoho

[Anonymous No.3134424]

Well there are two kind of returns you can get on your investment. First, the ability to work jobs that you enjoy. Second, the ability to make more money than you would otherwise have made. Those two returns matter to different people to different extents.

I personally would rather work my ass off in college even if it ends with me making the same amount as I would have made if I hadn't gone to college. But, well, I don't really consider it work because I like to spend all day studying. And also, I probably won't end up making the same amount as if I hadn't gone to college anyways, especially if I choose to take a path that will lead me to into lucrative lines of work.

[Anonymous No.3134439]

>>3134424
>I don't really consider it work because I like to spend all day studying
Well I guess you're blissfully insane
I HATE studying

[Anonymous No.3134451]

>>3134367
>europeans think smart Americans actually pay for college

No, sorry kids but smart Americans have colleges fighting over students offering financial aid. The people who pay 10-50k a year for college are mediocre students who got into a prestigious college because their stupid enough to pay that much.

I ended up turning down Stanford because they tried to jew me out of financial aid.

[Anonymous No.3134479]

At a 4 year university paying $3k a year for tuition+meal plan+dorms, feels alright man.

[Anonymous No.3135003]

I'm facing £27,000 course fees + living expenses for 4 years.

Feelsbadman

[Anonymous No.3135006]

>>3135003

Actually, it's not that bad. I'm not going to be a poor scientist

>Engineerfag

[Anonymous No.3135011]

No one should have to pay for education.

[Anonymous No.3135025]

>>3135011
Yeah, it should. But we don't live in Shouldland. Ah, Shouldland, where clean-cut kids cruise Shouldland Boulevard, and the Shouldland High football team gets their optimistic asses kicked by their cross-town rival, Reality Check Tech.

[Anonymous No.3135032]

Pay 80 euro as tuition fee per year, get into top quality university, they also give me a room for 95 euro per month that is relatively big. Get a scholarship each year (about 2000 euro).

Even though my government is retarded, sometimes I can't help but love it.

[Anonymous No.3135034]

No, OP. don't you fucking go get brainwashed and waste all your money when you could get a normal job right now and make just as much without the brainwashing and massive debt.

while you're at it, save up your money with a normal job and buy land in the middle of nowhere so you don't have to pay bills ever again. raised beds, drill a well or near a river, read and study metaphysics, etc. you're welcome!

[Anonymous No.3135041]

>>3135034
Not op, but Ive seriously considered doing that before...

[Anonymous No.3135045]

>>3135034
not op either. but i'm probably gonna do that no matter what. The silence and peace is all i want when i get home. Drive into town to do some work and drive back home after a good days work and do what ever i want. No one to tell me "hey stop shooting off fireworks or asshole neighbors saying hey your porch isn't up to code."

[Anonymous No.3135048]

yes. education is vital

[Anonymous No.3135051]

>>3135011
Nobody should have to pay for education. Um... How about "Everybody should have to pay for education."

Or better yet, how about: "Absolutely everyone pays through the nose for all the fucking idiots that come about in nations where education is not payed for by absolutely everyone while nations where the people provide education to absolutely everyone prosper vis a vis The Scandinavian Model."

America is not prospering. America is wasting the greatest opportunity it has ever had. Fuck the Louisiana Purchase, Alaska, WWII. The whole thing that is America is in jeopardy because of how atrociously ignorant everyone is.

[Anonymous No.3135052]

>>3135045
>asshole neighbors saying "hey your porch isn't up to code"

What?

[Anonymous No.3135055]

>>3135051
Ya, no.

Education should be free. You shouldnt be limited by how much money you have. Theres nothing worse in my opinion then people not having access to education.

[Anonymous No.3135056]

>>3135055

Don't think you understood Anon's comment. Read it again.

The two of you are in agreement.

[Anonymous No.3135058]

>>3134367
join the military. they pay all college debts.

4 years in the armed forces isn't so bad.

[Anonymous No.3135063]

>>3135058
>join the military
>die!

[Anonymous No.3135064]

>>3135051
>"Absolutely everyone pays through the nose for all the fucking idiots that come about in nations where education is not payed for by absolutely everyone while nations where the people provide education to absolutely everyone prosper vis a vis The Scandinavian Model."

America has better colleges than Scandinavian countries and is more prosperous than Finland, Sweden, and Iceland (but not Norway).

[Anonymous No.3135069]

>>3135064
>America
>more prosperous than Sweden
>2011

HAHAHA

[Anonymous No.3135070]

>>3135064

Prosperous? Um... You call debt owed to China prosperous?

And that world-famous "American Luck" will...
Let's just say it's improbably sustainable.

[Anonymous No.3135071]

>>3135069
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita
Well 2011 isn't finished so the latest year there are numbers for is 2010.

Rank 7 United States $47,284
Rank 14 Sweden 38,031

[Anonymous No.3135076]

>>3135071

Source: Wikipedia.

mfw

[Anonymous No.3135078]

>>3135069
>united states of america
>25% of world gdp

fuck off

[Anonymous No.3135079]

>>3135070
>Prosperous? Um... You call debt owed to China prosperous?

Um, well yeah? Having other countries want to buy your treasury bonds shows that they expect you can pay them back. No one wants to buy bonds from Zimbabwe. And China only owns 8% of the US public debt, if for some reason you think China owning US debt is a bad thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

[Anonymous No.3135080]

>>3135071
>>3135064

Looks like some statisticians forgot to eliminate outliers before they calculated their means, doesn't it? I wonder if they went to one of those fabulous American schools we keep hearing out?

[Anonymous No.3135082]

>>3135080

Bazing!

[Anonymous No.3135081]

>>3135076
OK, please show me GDP per capita at PPP data that shows Sweden is higher than the US. That evil Wikipedia cites the World Bank, IMF, and CIA World Fact Book, all of which can be checked online if you think that evil wikipedia was lying about the numbers.

[Anonymous No.3135084]

>>3135071
>Per capita

Ya, no.

That means nothing. Sweden has a sick standard of living right now. America is poverty land

[Anonymous No.3135090]

>>3135080
>I wonder if they went to one of those fabulous American schools we keep hearing out?
Probably. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_Ranking_of_World_Universities

You know what would be a fun game? Trying to find a top university from a Scandinavian country on this list!

[Anonymous No.3135092]

>>3135081

Ok. I have it all figured out.

ITT: Those who like to kick people when they're down VS those who prefer to not kick them at all.

Considering this is /sci/, I'm surprised to find people here that are anti-education. But considering this is 4chan, not so much so, no.

[m1ckey !dkJI/P7Y32 No.3135094]

ITT anally bruised Swedes grasping at straws

>>3135080
Did you ever take an introductory stats course?

[Anonymous No.3135099]

>>3135084
>That means nothing. Sweden has a sick standard of living right now. America is poverty land

So are you going to present any actual citations, facts, or evidence? Or are you just going to continue to make unsubstantiated lies while I post data from the IMF, World Bank, and OECD that shows you're wrong.

Here's MEDIAN household income from the OECD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income

[Anonymous No.3135105]

Come now, come now. Children of Wikipedia...

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2206rank.html

And oh look: The United States beat Somalia...

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2003rank.html

But the real kicker:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html

[Anonymous No.3135106]

>>3135064
Here in ireland university is mostly free (I think it's a €2000 registration fee now) and a huge number of American companies, tech ones in particular, are settling here. In fact 2 or 3 of our universities are in the worlds top 100

[Anonymous No.3135115]

>live in holland, born here, my parents are immigrants
>at 18, go to uni
>govnt offers everyone that goes to higher ed a base loan + additional based on parents income/if youre living at home or not + free public transport over the entire country
>if you complete your study (bachelors) within 10 years, the govt pays your loan back for you (it becomes a grant). masters is completely self-funded if you want to do it
>the newly elected govt decides to have massive cutbacks on EVERYTHING, including education. If you "waste a year" (you change your mind on what study you wanna do after feb, or just plain fail), the second time it happens and all after that you get a 3000 euro fine ($4285.5).
>I decide to apply for dual nationality (get the dutch one) earlier this year. Ive been studying before that already.
>due to the cutbacks the people at administration for this student funding loan thing have been scrutinizing files, they find my file and decide I didnt deserve the loan before getting my dutch nationality. They send me a letter they want all of it back (2500 euro/$3571.25).
>mfw they accepted my request for this loan earlier, as they should. my other nationality is a european one, so either way they cant deny me the loan. The only reason it got returned is because they ASSUME all non-dutch have a residence permit, which I dont need because I have a special citizenship given to us by the ministry of foreign affairs.
>Shouldnt these people be taking to each other to check this shit? they fucking did before!
>fuck wilders.

[Anonymous No.3135116]

No such thing as America, Euro fags. Each state is a little country. Just got back from Just got back from Yamashiro Restaurant in Hollywood Hills and can not see this America failing thing you guys are talking about.

Outside of Cambridge/Oxford you schools have zero name credibility.

[Anonymous No.3135129]

>>3135105
Well I'm glad you're finally trying to use facts instead of wild accusations but you need to look for statistics that are actually Germaine to the conversation at hand.

For example, you post statistics on public expenditure on education as percent of GDP. Well.... Why does that matter? We were discussing the quality of college education in different countries. America has 17 of the top 20 schools in the world. If you look at the rest of the table, around 80 of the top 100 schools are American. If America spends 0% on education but has all the top schools, wouldn't that be a good thing? You're getting the best schools in the world for free.

In addition, GDP growth rate and balance of trade are important because they affect GDP, but are not actually GDP. If your GDP is growing at 10% but only have GDP per capita of $5000, then someone with a GDP of $40,000 per capita is still richer than you. And the US's GDP per capita and median income are both higher than Sweden's.

[Anonymous No.3135133]

>>3135105

lol at the discrepancy between spain and USA.

greece isnt even so bad, and a lot of people are considering kicking them out of the EU

[Anonymous No.3135134]

Oh hai there, Eurfaggot calling. I don't have student loan after getting my MSc. Enjoy your freedoms!

[Anonymous No.3135138]

>>3135116
I can only advise you to buy gold, lots of it.

Who knows what will happen next? USA will definitely not collapse into fragments, although maybe some politicians will suggest it. Likely new laws will be formed that give some states some degree of indipendence that they can have their own currency?

I really have no idea what will happen. Riots on the streets are guaranteed.

[Anonymous No.3135142]

>>3135116

>> No such thing as America.

[Anonymous No.3135146]

>>3135116

Ok, yes, of course. I'm so glad you cleared that up for the rest of us.
As an American myself (from Minnesota if you're interested) I ask you to shut it. Unless, of course, you're trolling, in which case:

7/10

[Anonymous No.3135151]

>>3135129
>Implying no difference in the costs of living
>Free school and healthcare...

Also, have you ever looked at how they make those lists about the universities.
They look how big the shcool is and how much money it has. Big private schools will win at that.

The numbers don't actually tell you how good the place is.

In addition to that, when you move away from the top universities to the rest and more importantly to basic education you see the ddifferences. See the PISA results

Also
>Student loans
>Mfw when the goverment pays me to go to school

[Anonymous No.3135153]

>>3135116
>Outside of Cambridge/Oxford you schools have zero name credibility.

Depends on whom you ask. If course the majority of dudes will be "hurr durr only Princeton, Harvard and Yale are the best universities derpa herpa".

If you want good reputation - you choose to study and work with the best groups, no one cares about which uni the group is currently working at.

Sure, the big names attract people because they have practically unlimited funds.

On the other hand .. I just finished my masters in physics and have a little 8000EUR surplus on my banking account, no debt.

Have fun working off that student loan for the next 40 years, my American friends.

[Anonymous No.3135158]

>live in holland, born here, my parents are immigrants
>at 18, go to uni
>govnt offers everyone that goes to higher ed a base loan + additional based on parents income/if youre living at home or not + free public transport over the entire country
>if you complete your study (bachelors) within 10 years, the govt pays your loan back for you (it becomes a grant). masters is completely self-funded if you want to do it
>the newly elected govt decides to have massive cutbacks on EVERYTHING, including education. If you "waste a year" (you change your mind on what study you wanna do after feb, or just plain fail), the second time it happens and all after that you get a 3000 euro fine ($4285.5).
>I decide to apply for dual nationality (get the dutch one) earlier this year. Ive been studying before that already.
>due to the cutbacks the people at administration for this student funding loan thing have been scrutinizing files, they find my file and decide I didnt deserve the loan before getting my dutch nationality. They send me a letter they want all of it back (2500 euro/$3571.25).
>mfw they accepted my request for this loan earlier, as they should. my other nationality is a european one, so either way they cant deny me the loan. The only reason it got returned is because they ASSUME all non-dutch have a residence permit, which I dont need because I have a special citizenship given to us by the ministry of foreign affairs.
>Shouldnt these people be taking to each other to check this shit? they fucking did before!
>fuck wilders.

edit: wrong image

[Anonymous No.3135168]

>>3135151
>They look how big the shcool is and how much money it has. Big private schools will win at that.

You are completely wrong and egregiously uninformed. The Shanghai ranking (which I posted before and am posting the link for again) does not take into account school size or money at all.

>The ranking compared 1200 higher education institutions worldwide according to a formula that took into account alumni winning Nobel Prizes and Fields Medals (10 percent), staff winning Nobel Prizes and Fields Medals (20 percent), highly-cited researchers in 21 broad subject categories (20 percent), articles published in the journals Nature and Science (20 percent), the Science Citation Index and Social Sciences Citation Index (20 percent) and the per capita academic performance (on the indicators above) of an institution (10 percent).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_Ranking_of_World_Universities

[Anonymous No.3135169]

This might be a stretch, but I fucking hate how if you mention that your parents are paying for your school, people automatically assume you're some spoiled little shit. My dad worked as a programmer and my mom stayed at home, but somehow they saved up the money for me to go to school. I wouldn't mind it so much if it was exclusively people from poor families, but at least half the time it comes from people from relatively affluent families. People just assume that since there parents didn't give a shit about their education, everyone who has their parents pay/help pay must have everything in life handed to them or something.

Holy fuck it's irritating sometimes

[Anonymous No.3135175]

>>3135129

Oh, you're still here. Sorry, I thought this thread was about debt incurred for college education, vis a vis financial and hardship investment.

in which case I'll re-refer you to:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html

FYI, you've been losing this argument to an American who was educated in an American university.

TO OP: Yes. It's my opinion that it's worth it. Especially if you can go to a good community college that works in partnership with a local university so that you can get about 2 years of credits and basic courses cheaply and without the fucking typical rich-fag freshmen and sophomore nonsense and then finish out your last 2 years kicking. It's especially worth it if you avoid drinking and don't socialize with people who won't further your career.

[Anonymous No.3135178]

>>3135169
Maybe it's because a huge number of parents do not have the possibility to save up such a huge amount of money, DESPITE working full hours. The terminology is working poor, and there is an abundance of those poor bastards.

Whatever the case may be, it simply sucks that certain people can get a head start in life without having to do shit. Your parents could afford it. You are lucky, lots of young men aren't and have to go flip burgers for a living.

[Anonymous No.3135181]

>>3135151
>In addition to that, when you move away from the top universities to the rest and more importantly to basic education you see the ddifferences. See the PISA results

We were discussing college level education. If you want to admit that Sweden has no world ranked universities and the US dominates the list, we can end this discussion. But you are rejecting academic rankings that show the US has much better universities than Sweden (or the EU except the UK) as being biased, presenting no other evidence of your own that Sweden (or whoever) has better universities. And now you try to change the subject to PISA results, which are for 15 year olds and have nothing at all to do with University education.

It really seems like you are being evasive and not presenting facts to support your position because you have none.

[Anonymous No.3135186]

>>3135146

Stupid fucking Rube, America is Los Angeles and New york City. No one gives a fuck about the rest, and most of us hate you mid west/southern dip shits. And please stop moving to NYC, we are full.

[Anonymous No.3135187]

>>3135169

This is not so much of issue for peoples of Europa. No I do not think so.

[Anonymous No.3135188]

>>3135168
Don't know if stupid or just trolling.
Did you even read that list, most of the things favour big and private schools.

>alumni winning Nobel Prizes and Fields Medals (10 percent)
>staff winning Nobel Prizes and Fields Medals (20 percent)
>highly-cited researchers in 21 broad subject categories (20 percent)
>articles published in the journals Nature and Science (20 percent)
>the Science Citation Index and Social Sciences Citation Index (20 percent)

These all favour big uni over small one regardless of the quality, and rich over poor.
Then there is the:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_Ranking_of_World_Universities#Criticism

[Anonymous No.3135189]

>>3135181
Once you get a grip on how these rankings are established, they suddenly lose quite on impact...

Are the courses better? The teachers and profs? Nope. It's simply a matter of publications, popularity (!!) and buttloads of money. I hope you don't believe that a chemist graduating from a top US university is way more "excellent" that someone from Belgium.

[Anonymous No.3135191]

>>3135178

I fully understand that, but I don't see why any hostility needs to be involved. I'm fully aware that I am luckier than many people, but somehow people manage to take offence to it, like me being lucky is somehow negatively affecting them.

I should point out that I have never encountered this from someone who could be categorized as working poor. If they're dicks about it, I usually ask them what car their parents drive. More often than not it costs more than $40,000 and it's enough to make them stop talking.

[Anonymous No.3135192]

>>3135151

Yes. This. See the PISA.

[Anonymous No.3135196]

>>3135175
>Oh, you're still here. Sorry, I thought this thread was about debt incurred for college education, vis a vis financial and hardship investment.

Um, yes?

>in which case I'll re-refer you to:
>https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html

Do you even understand what that statistic is. That is the balance of trade.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_of_trade
It means the US exports (a lot) more than it imports. It has nothing at all to do with loans for college. Not even a little. I can't believe you cited it here...

>FYI, you've been losing this argument to an American who was educated in an American university.

You cited balance of trade to claim that Americans incur debt for college education. Frankly, the fact that you're from an American university might make me revise my positive opinion of the American universities.

[Anonymous No.3135197]

>>3135181
It was more of an side point about the general level of education there. Tere isn't too many studies that compare the actual education of different countries than PISA.
Please if you have something that compares university education then tell me.

[Anonymous No.3135199]

If you don't go to college your mating prospects are diminished. Therefore you must go to college.

sometimes i feel sorry for you americunts. Your government really hates you. They manage to make you a wage slave before you've even started working.

Like sure, I'm gonna have to take out a mortgage (although nowhere near as crushing as it would have been in 2008) just to live and raise a family, but I'm not an owned man just yet. After uni i'mma arse around and travel for a year or two. Enjoy my life for a bit before i am reduced to watching garbage tv, voting completely selfishly and not caring about my own or the country's long-term prospects, and playing the lottery because the false hope it gives me every week is better than facing the bleak reality.

[Anonymous No.3135204]

>>3135169
>implying you're not a spoiled little shit

[Anonymous No.3135206]

>>3135181

http://www.helsinki.fi/news/archive/8-2008/20-12-11-15

And this is quite awesome:
http://www.eigenfactor.org/map/maps.htm
(If you scroll down a bit, you'll find a version in Svensk. Um, that's Swedish to you.)

[Anonymous No.3135210]

>>3135204

hurrrr

I could probably go on for a while about how my dad paid for his college working in a battery factory, and the only reason he put a priority on paying for my school is that he got sick later in life because of it and doesn't want me to go through something similar. I could talk about how we live in a small house in a fairly bad area of Toronto and how he still drives a 92 Toyota Corolla. I'm not going to bother though, since you're just a troll and whatnot.

Face it, some people have different priorities. My neighbour's kids have to pay for their own school and their parents are just as wealthy as mine. My parents just didn't choose to go on golfing vacations 3 times a year and chose to spend that money on my education instead. Yeah it fucking sucks for the kids, but it's not like they aren't spoiled just because their parents spent their money elsewhere.

[Anonymous No.3135215]

>>3135197
>Please if you have something that compares university education then tell me.

Well, there are dozens of rankings of universities. But it seems no one in this thread is willing to accept them because they don't show the results they want (which is that America doesn't have all the world's best schools). I mean seriously, we have guys in this thread complaining that ranking universities on the number of fields medals, nobel prizes, and research impact they have is biased.

>>3135206
>The top ranks in the world go to the American universities MIT, Harvard, Stanford and Berkeley, which are also among the top five in the ranking by the Shanghai Jiao Tong University.

Your article supports my claim. Was that what you meant when you posted it?

[Anonymous No.3135217]

>implying american universities don't attract top researchers due to paying huge salaries (funded for by students of course).

>implying this has any bearing on the actual educational standard of a university.

>implying that america isn't a country of 300million people, with the best students all going to a narrow range of unis

>implying you can use a few "elite" unis to say that overall american universities are better than european ones.

[Anonymous No.3135218]

>>3135181
Better ranked universities sure, but I don't think there's an actual difference in education and what you learn.

Atleast when I've asked a bunch of students from my school who's studied abroad at Stanford, Tokyo University, MIT, KAIST, Dartmouth, Fudan and they all said that it wasn't very different from schools in Sweden.

However only the best students get these deals.

[Anonymous No.3135237]

>>3135217

>implying you can use a few "elite" unis to say that overall american universities are better than european ones.

>implying that america isn't a country of 300million people, with the best students all going to a narrow range of unis

Hey bro, take a look at the top 100 universities in the world. Notice that more than half of them are in the US? Unless you consider the top 60 schools to all be "elite" your shit really doesn't stand up. It's not very hard to get into a top 60 school in the US, so there's no shortage of great schools.

You seem to have no idea how education works here

[Anonymous No.3135251]

>>3135218
>>Better ranked universities sure, but I don't think there's an actual difference in education and what you learn.

Well from my experience having been to several universities, I found that the higher ranked ones had better programs. But my sample size is only 3 so who knows, you may be right. I don't even particularly disagree with your claim.

I was just trying to disprove the guy who said the US was "squandering" an opportunity compared to the Scandinavian university system and was therefore poorer than those countries when the US is richer than most of those countries (on GDP per capita and median income) and the only evidence we have on university education (university rankings) shows the US on top of the world.

[Anonymous No.3135255]

>>3135237

>top 60 unis out of 300million people

NOPE.

Check the less biased QS rankings

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2010?page=0%2C0%2C0%2C0
%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0
%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0

29 of the top 100. American dominance for sure!

[Anonymous No.3135257]

>>3135215
Ranking=/= Actual education
At least the PISA compares the actual education.

The thing is that nobel proce=/= good education, it might mean that but you can't just asume that.

For example my country Finland, we have 5 million people and something like 15 universities.
Most are pretty small compared to US. Helsinki uni, the biggest, is also the highest ranked one. This doesn't actually mean that you get better education there than somewhere else. There is basically more money and variety.


It's only natural that the biggest and "best" unis are in America it's a big country. This means that there is the most money and biggest variety. But the actual difference in the education is negligible.

As i know there are no standardized test for uni math or something like that.

[Anonymous No.3135271]

>>3135251
>I was just trying to disprove the guy who said the US was "squandering" an opportunity compared to the Scandinavian university system
This btw meat (at least how i understood it) that if you had free education things would be better. There are so many people that can't go because of the costs.
So that you know.

[Anonymous No.3135283]

In the world of research there is so much collaboration that the distinctions between the United States vs. 'Europe' or Canada vs. Australia just become very trivial. That this has degraded into a silly pissing contest fit for international college recruiters drinking to much together down the pub is evidence that nationalism needs to be eradicated from higher education. That's what I think.

And anyway N.American, Japanese, Chinese, Russian and European universities all always cream when they hear that their profs and Ph.D students are interacting. It can only be a win-win situation for everyone.

But you Yankees and your lists, your strange fear of little Sweden and most obvious to me, at least, your frightening need to eagerly defend your money from your bi-cameral congresses... May I suggest that a friendly pause ought to be taken. Maybe come back in the morning when you're more fresh and noble?

Here in the UK we have many great universities that each have a different niche and are all important to the commonwealth of all. At least, I do hope that's how it functions in practice.

[Anonymous No.3135907]

>>3135255

No other country has even half that on the rankings. Sounds like dominance to me broski.

[Anonymous No.3136109]

>getting engineering school for 500€ a year
>some of my friend earn 900€/month for studying (working for a company at the same time)

[Anonymous No.3136124]

>> Is college worth the financial and hardship investment?

Depends on what you want to do. To leave it short and sweet, if you don't have any aspirations, then it's probably not for you.

There are amazing jobs where you NEED a college degree in order to perform them. Without a degree, then there's not a chance in hell you'll get that job.

For the people that want and get those jobs, then yes, college was very much word the financial investment.

[Anonymous No.3136167]

How is this science?

[Anonymous No.3136803]

Apparently the overall quality of something can be measured by its peak, regardless of its average quality, costs, and availability! You're fucking failures at rational, critical thinking.