Proposal for Mars colony in fewest launches possible

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3126824]

All current plans seem to call for cramped premade capsule habitats landed on the surface, with additional equipment and supplies sent in subsequent launches. I think we can do it in three.

The basic plan is to send an inflatable habitat. It will take up less space on the first rocket when collapsed, making more room for other equipment. Along with the habitat, a compact nuclear reactor for generating power, equipment for using that power to refine oxygen and other elements from martian soil, and several months worth of provisions/compressed oxygen to get started (the other elements of air will be recycled)

Once the astronauts have the initial habitat set up and functioning, the next lander would bring down a large hatch, equipment for moving it around, an adhesive agent for making concrete from martian soil and the equipment to work with said concrete. The remaining payload space would contain additional compressed oxygen and food/water.

Pic related, lava tube before.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3126836]

The habitat would have been carefully landed next to the opening to a lava tube. The hatch would be placed on top of it, and sealed into place with concrete. A double door system would permit astronauts to enter/exit without exposing the tube interior to the outside atmosphere.

The third launch would contain tanks of compressed nitrogen and other gases other than oxygen necessary for making earth normative air, hundreds of LED lighting fixtures, heaters, seed, and fertilizing agents to make the martian soil suitable for growing plants in. The lava tube interior would be gradually filled with air using the nuclear powered air production equipment and additional gases. CO2 could be taken directly from the atmosphere.

The LED lights would be set up along the cieling, the soil in the lava tube would be tilled and fertilized, the seeds planted, and most of the equipment would be moved from the habitat into the tubes through the airlock. The lava tube would become the astronauts' new home.

Pic related; Lava tube after, minus the gaping hole in the roof.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3126848]

> fewest launches possible

Mars Direct does it in two

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3126854]

>>3126848

I'll look into it. But my plan offers way, way more habitable space and excellent natural protection from radiation.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3126861]

>>3126854

I think you'd just mod Mars Direct to support this. The "first launch drops nuke + habitat" thing is 70% percent covered in Mars Direct.

Have an update: http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/05/zubrin-provides-more-explanation-of-his.html

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3126874]

>>3126861

I see that, but can we please focus on the lava tube aspect? I really feel like it's superior to any plan that would have us living in free standing capsules on the surface. A natural environment full of plants would not only make for a self sufficient life support system but it would also be better in a psychological sense for the colonists.

[Anonymous No.3126887]

All of this will be in jeopardy if Mars is at all geologically active still. Is it, or is it geologically 'dead'?

[Anonymous No.3126912]

Mars colonies aren't like a big truck you can put things on. They're a series of tubes.

[Anonymous No.3126916]

>>3126887
pretty dead as in the core is solid.

[Anonymous No.3126918]

>>3126912
Tubes, you say?

[Anonymous No.3126929]

It's kind of poetic if you think about it. Man left the caves and built civilization, then left his planet to land on another....where he once again lives in caves. Like a fresh start.

[Anonymous No.3126936]

>>3126887
Mars is geologically dead.

[Anonymous No.3126952]

Cool idea OP. Have you found said martian lava tubes yet? I'd like to know where said lava tubes are specifically; I've heard about them before and it definitely sounds plausible as a habitat.

How deep/far do said tubes run? How much air would you need to pump into it to fill it?

[Anonymous No.3126959]

>>3126929
The cyclicality of it is surprising. From caveman, to (once again) caveman.

[ႼЋïŁႣƧტƿḩЄƦṥ !Scone2booQ No.3126970]

>>3126929
The "cavemen" didn't live in caves much more than we do today. They lived in tents.

[Anonymous No.3126974]

big problem in the form of making sure the lava tubes are airtight and sealed. inb4 igneous rock.

igneous rock is not indestructible.

[Anonymous No.3126991]

This thread kind of pisses me off.

I thought I was reading a discussion of something that's actually going to happen. Turns out it's just a bunch of nerds writing out their hard science fiction novellas.

[Nuka-Cola !dbLFTRZqOI No.3126992]

better to get robots to do the initial prep, honestly.
making concrete from the martian sand sounds a little hairy, probably better to use a polymer plasticizer. A robot would mix the polymer with martian sand it sucks up and extrude the material like toothpaste into martian dirt igloos. it could make tens of these before the astronauts even arrive, all they have to do is install small two-door airlocks. the dirt would probably filter most radiation to zero, and yes you could manufacture atmosphere to put in the igloos.

the power plant could also go ahead and start making return fuel for the astronauts when it lands.

[Anonymous No.3127003]

>>3126991
>Welcome to /sci/, may i get your coat?

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3127007]

>>3126974

As the lava passes through, it seals the rock. The very process of creating a lava tube seals it. And any areas with leaks could be located using a colored gas or smoke, and then patched with sealant. It only needs to hold in 1atm.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3127017]

Do we know of any suitable lava tubes on Mars for such a modification of Mars Direct?

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3127022]

>>3126992

Robots that capable don't exist yet. Also, why create aboveground enclosures instead of simply sealing a much larger belowground one?

And I don't care what the concrete agent is, the point is to carry only what's needed to make it from martian soil rather than complete concrete mix. Carrying one part of it and making it from soil in-situ saves a lot of weight.

[Nuka-Cola !dbLFTRZqOI No.3127025]

>>3127017
not really
it's well educated guesswork though. i think there was some strong evidence for some, but it's not known how deep they go or what kind of geometry they would have (hop into your lava tube to discover, UH OH! it's a 50 degree slope down 100 feet)

we'd need scouting robots, lots of them

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3127031]

>>3127017

http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070312/full/news070312-11.html

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3127037]

>>3127031
Let's ring up Mr. Bob Zubrin.

Though I suspect he'll say it is unnecessary since the thin Martian atmosphere is adequate for solar flare shielding.

[Nuka-Cola !dbLFTRZqOI No.3127040]

>>3127022
>Robots that capable don't exist yet
robots capable of mixing a dusty material and a plasticizer and extruding it into a very basic pattern over long periods? i would bet money there are tons of kinds of factory robots which do something similar right now

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3127044]

>>3127037

Solar flares aren't the main issue. Mars is still exposed to a great deal of radiation. Living even a few feet underground would offer cheap, powerful protection.

[Anonymous No.3127054]

Living underground also partially protects from horrible huge sandstorms etc

[Anonymous No.3127114]

Alright, what's the earliest possible date this project could begin?

[Anonymous No.3127236]

>>3126824

Need samples of mars 'soil' to create your 'glue' for the 'concrete'

Mars dust is corrosive, big problems for any machinery that has to work there, especially for robots that WILL need fixed.

Plant machinery is very heavy, getting it to Mars would require a lot more than 3 launches on its own.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3127241]

>>3127236

>>Plant machinery is very heavy, getting it to Mars would require a lot more than 3 launches on its own.

"Plant machinery"? Such as?

[Anonymous No.3127274]

>>3127241

Diggers, concrete mixers, tools, spare parts etc etc

All the shit you need to build a habitat with

[Anonymous No.3127276]

>>3127241
The Planty kind.

By the way, you are the Hampture guy, right?

[Anonymous No.3127280]

>>3127040 i would bet money there are tons of kinds of factory robots which do something similar right now
>similar
>not built for mars
>doesn't exist

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3127299]

>>3127276

>>By the way, you are the Hampture guy, right?

Yes.

>>3127274

>>All the shit you need to build a habitat with

The whole point of sealing off lava tubes is that you don't need to bring/build a habitat.

[Anonymous No.3127306]

Lava tubes?

Gotta find them first.

[Anonymous No.3127310]

>>3127299

You still want to play with tons of concrete so how exactly do you plan on doing that without heavy machinery?

[Anonymous No.3127319]

I saw a thread, don't know if it was on here, about these inflatable tents that when sprayed with water hardened like concrete. Maybe this would be suitable as a habitat?

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3127342]

>>3127310

I don't. I specified in the first post that machinery for working with concrete would be included in the second launch.

[Anonymous No.3127347]

>>3127306

I see your link now

http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070312/full/news070312-11.html

>craters ranging from 100 - 250m diameter
>caves 80m deep

That's pretty big brah. Sounds like a nice thing to start with, shelter and less temp fluctuations but you're really under estimating the work it will take to build any form of habitat.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3127363]

>>3127319

Monolithic concrete domes? They're made using an inflatable dome balloon under a layer of concrete which is pumped up as the concrete hardens. That'd be one way to create an airlock chamber, although I figure you could just as easily integrate a small lock into the hatch that would be placed over the lava tube opening. Everyone who said we'd need to scout for such openings first is right though, so we can take detailed measurements, and thereby know how much the hatch dealie needs to be.

[Anonymous No.3127395]

>>3127342

A reasonable digger weighs more than 30t without spare parts or fuel. They hold ~500 litres of diesel.

This will need to be specially designed to operate on Mars. It will need specially designed to fit inside a rocket and then you need to land this super heavy payload.

A concrete mixer will be much the same.

[Anonymous No.3127408]

>>3127363

A concrete dome is going to be sooooo heavy :(

Even for a small one

[Anonymous No.3127419]

Just so you know, I love your threads, Mad Scientist.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3127443]

>>3127419

:3c

>>3127395

An industrial grade one for making lots and lots of concrete, sure. We don't need that much. Don't tell me it's impossible to scale one down for lighter duty.

[Anonymous No.3127451]

>>3127363
>>3127408
I was thinking of bringing tents that where already air locked and using the sand of mars to create the concrete which would cover the tents to create radiation and dust storm shields. These habitats are of course temporary and are only used for the first hundred years until better equipment can be brought, to make more ideal living situations.

[Anonymous No.3127458]

>>3127408
The gravity on Mars might help with the stability, also the domed structure would keep it safe.

You could always combine the ideas. Starting with a small above-ground habitat on top of the Lava tube with enough room for(possibly manual) digging over a period of time. How deep are the lava tubes themselves? They're visible from satellite, so they can't be too hard to locate.

[Anonymous No.3127469]

>>3127451
A hundred years sounds like a long time. In that time(say a few decades) mineral deposits might be discovered to allow a small amount of at-base manufacturing.

[Anonymous No.3127489]

>>3127469
Well I am speaking without taking into consideration unknowns. Also I was giving a generous amount of time because you can't predict scientific advancements.

[Anonymous No.3127505]

>>3127443

Yeah they can be scaled down but they're still going to be really heavy and will require more launches than you anticipate.

The new SpaceX heavy lift rockets look promising but with a very quick guess I'd say you will need 10 of them launched in tandem to get all of the supplies required for small habitation.

[Anonymous No.3127514]

>>3127505
>at least 10

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3127529]

>>3127458

I'm liking this idea, but what if instead of building a concrete dome atop the tube entrance, the lander itself has the hatch on the underside? It could be wheeled and mobile like the ATHLETE mobile platforms designed for the Constellation program. This would permit it to position itself over the tube entrance, then lower into place so the hatch on the underside can be sealed to the tube entrance. Presto, the habitat itself has an airlock entry directly into the tube.

Pic related

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3127543]

>>3127505

>>to get all of the supplies required for small habitation.

Provided it includes the equipment for sealing the lava tube, once complete, we'll have habitable space for hundreds.

We're getting a full scale colony for the price of a small habitat program.

[Anonymous No.3127558]

>>3127529
Is that part of the shuttle? If not wouldn't it be heavy?

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3127569]

>>3127558

Shuttle? No, the canister on top is a small habitat. My proposal would ditch that in favor of an inflatable habitat which would be much lighter and take up less space in the rocket. The mobile robotic base would be fore moving it off the lander and onto the lava tube entrance.

[Anonymous No.3127581]

>>3127543
Another problem is how long do we expect these scientists to live there? Don't we also have to take into account interbreeding and the harm it could cause to the gene pool? I'm assuming you need a population of 1000 or more to avoid this.

[Anonymous No.3127607]

Martian colonies won't happen until we have a space elevator. Sorry bro.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3127610]

>>3127581

Half that. 500 humans are necessary for a stable breeding pool. Additional lava tubes could be sealed and pressurized to greatly expand the habitable area. That's the benefit of this approach, and the reason I believe it's the only way of creating enough livable space on Mars without bankrupting the country. To supply for that many peoples' life support needs you need a shitload of plants and room to grow them. Lava tubes are a much cheaper way to accomplish this than prebuilt modular capsules.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3127617]

>>3127607

>>Martian colonies won't happen until we have a space elevator. Sorry bro.

Assuming we do it with prebuilt capsules, you're right. But using this method, we can do it with existing rockets, because it requires vastly less mass to be sent to Mars per cubic foot of habitable space it creates.

[Anonymous No.3127620]

>>3127581
Might cause problems if children born there don't want to stay though.

I'd also suggest choosing married couples who have already taken psyche evaluations for the first batch of people. As for interbreeding, you can get by that for 100 years relatively easily.

It would probably be best to just send additional groups of people afterward. It would be cheaper to send people without equipment afterward, but at the same time forcing a group of people to breed with certain people to keep up a population from only a handful of scientists seems like people could call it criminal.

[Utility !!dErcPAxu910 No.3127635]

>>3127607
What would the music be like in a space elevator?

[Anonymous No.3127636]

>>3127610
Once you have 500 people on Mars you'll start to need more infrastructure like schools and prisons. You'll need doctors and scientists and you'll also need manual laborers and botanists, since you don't want them sitting around too long with nothing to do.

[Anonymous No.3127639]

>>3127620
>but the children
Tough fucking luck for them.

[Anonymous No.3127644]

>>3127639
It'll really damage the program's reputation and prevent other people from wanting to go.

It would be like you growing up in the middle of Africa FOR SCIENCE and being unable to leave. Only surrounded by scientists and in a cave with possible cabin fever.

[Anonymous No.3127654]

>>3127639
>>3127644
Though it probably wouldn't be that bad, since there will still be communications with Earth. Barring some sort of disaster on Mars they won't ever be completely cut-off from Earth.

[Anonymous No.3127667]

>>3127644
The kids won't want to leave, they won't know any better.

[Anonymous No.3127674]

>>3127644
Well send them a constant supply of video games.

[Anonymous No.3127686]

>>3127617
It would still be far too costly to maintain any significant presence on Mars. The fully completed ISS will cost 160 billion USD. Establishing a colony without a vast decrease in transport and material cost would be stupid given the enormous opportunity cost.

[Anonymous No.3127691]

>>3127667
>>3127674
And medicine? Doctors will be fine as far as treating, bone-setting and surgery. But along with food-plants you'll need to have different tropical habitats to grow more exotic plants if you want to be able to manufacture drugs to treat illnesses that you might end up getting down there.

[Anonymous No.3127706]

>>3127543

Now hold onto your horses just a second there, Skippy. 100 people are going to require a LOT more supplies and space than a small team, mission costs are already going through the roof.

More people requires more machines, fuel, farm land and life support. Will eventually get to that but the initial expedition will take several years to get up to speed.

>>3127529
Using this as an airlock could work but it still requires something to be built over the entrance. You can't just park it over a cave entrance and say "lol airlock", airlocks require a good seal and dirt doesn't seal.

[Anonymous No.3127722]

Growing up on Mars from birth will probably have all sorts of health implications.

Have they bred any labrats on the ISS yet?

[Anonymous No.3127739]

>>3127691
I don't think anyone is saying that you'd be able to set up a Mars colony and immediately have every product available on Earth, natively produced.

If you get some disease that's only treatable by the costly extract of some rare tropical plant, you'd just die, as is the case for about 90% of the population of Earth now.

Vaccinations (which you're not going to need in space lol), antibiotics, painkillers, bonesetting, and stitches provide about 80-90% of the benefit of modern medicine anyway. Most of the fortune we spend on it is chasing that last few percent.

[Anonymous No.3127835]

>>3127617

On the other hand, it isn't economically and scientifically desirable without an orbital elevator. We'll still have to wait until then, but when the time comes colonizing Mars (likely from a Moonbase launchpad) will be comparatively easy as cake.

Interstellar colony ships on the other hand, mmm MMM.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3127837]

>>3127706

>>More people requires more machines, fuel, farm land and life support. Will eventually get to that but the initial expedition will take several years to get up to speed.

I don't think you understand the proposal. Life support is free. It's provided by the acres and acres of plants in the lava tube. Crops can also be grown in this manner for food production.

>>Using this as an airlock could work but it still requires something to be built over the entrance. You can't just park it over a cave entrance and say "lol airlock", airlocks require a good seal and dirt doesn't seal.

I know, hence the concrete mix sent on the second rocket. It's used to form the seal between the hatch and the lava tube opening. It seems like you replied without fully reading the proposal.

[Anonymous No.3127866]

>>3127654

Newsflash from the future:
In the year 2169, more than 10% of all 4chan traffic consists of genuinely lonely Martians, spending an average of 12 hours a day lurking the boards.

[Anonymous No.3127886]

>>3127866
Sadly they will still have more social skills than most of 4chan's general population.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3127904]

>>3127686

>>It would still be far too costly to maintain any significant presence on Mars. The fully completed ISS will cost 160 billion USD

That's because the ISS is comprise of rigid capsules with life support machinery. This hypothetical mars colony would be inside of a natural lava tube network, using plants for life support. We'd still need machinery for sealing and creating breathable atmosphere initially but I'd wager less mass would have to be sent in total than had to be lifted into orbit to build the ISS.

>>3127636

>>Once you have 500 people on Mars you'll start to need more infrastructure like schools and prisons. You'll need doctors and scientists and you'll also need manual laborers and botanists, since you don't want them sitting around too long with nothing to do.

This is true. But remember, those don't need to be expensive modules launched to Mars. Need a school? Chop down some of the trees growing in the lava tube and build a wooden schoolhouse. Need a hospital? Another wooden structure, possibly also concrete. It'd be very much like an old west frontier town by necessity if we build structures from the materials available. The doctors, dentists and teachers could be selected for their roles and sent as part of the initial population.

[Anonymous No.3127921]

>>3127837
Yeah I didn't read it correctly, oops.

I don't think you understand the term life support. It includes all of the systems responsible for producing oxygen, regulating the air supply, cleaning the air, climate control, redundant systems etc.

You aren't going to get enough oxygen from plants alone who in turn will require lots of growing lights and lots of power.

Getting a functioning nuclear reactor on the planet is a huge mission by itself.

[Anonymous No.3127930]

>>3127904
>Wooden huts
>Mars

noooo

[Anonymous No.3127950]

>>3127930
AHHHH you idiot, this is in the lava tubes. Also these kids will be getting an awesome education considering they are being taught by scientists that are smart enough to be allowed to be sent to mars. Also I could imagine the intelligence of martians increasing exponentially because the population will consist of scientists and doctors.

[Anonymous No.3127952]

>>3127904

That sounds like a terrible idea, frankly. You'd still be depending on that advanced plant life to produce oxygen long after the population got to the point where you'd want to tear it down for building material. Just use concrete, if you can find sand produce glass with excess heat from the reactor(s) and have a web of concrete buildings linked by glass walkways.

[Anonymous No.3127958]

>>3127904

Wait, trees?

I haven't looked up info on tubes yet, but how big are they? You make them sound like they're absolutely gigantic.

But I wouldn't want to build a wooden house or school in a cave. That's just silly talk. Real dorfs strike the earth and build some more rooms.

[Anonymous No.3127959]

>>3127904
Trees generally take too long to grow, and would need a lot of space and nutrient-rich soil. How is the soil in the lava tube? Since it's basically sealed, would the bottom of the tube being usable for growing plants?

I think bamboo would work out well. Also you can eat bamboo aside from building with it and it already grows quickly.


A nuclear plant might take too much effort to pull off getting on Mars and functioning at first. Solar might be better, or even wind. Isn't Mars prone to things like dust storms? Though unless you manufacture the parts on site it would probably be obscenely expensive to do anything like that, though wind power is simple enough to create and doesn't require anything too hard to import.

[Anonymous No.3127974]

>>3127950

That's not how intelligence works. In fact, by the time a given scientist would be of age and seniority to be considered for such a trip it'd be pretty much impossible to differentiate between a man of average intelligence who is well-practiced and a man of great intelligence who is not so well-practiced.

This is ignoring that Earth would still be the place where most if not all scientific advancements are made.

[Anonymous No.3127982]

>>3127958
I'm not going to lie, halfway through this thread I started thinking about Dwarf Fortress too.

Anyone aware of what kinds of plant-like create the most oxygen?

[Anonymous No.3127985]

>>3127958

You can get pretty small ones but I think overtime they all like to grow pretty big. Assuming the soil on Mars is suitable for growing stuff in (I've got no idea if it is) the roots will eventually begin to take over and ruin everyones shit.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3127988]

>>3127921

>>I don't think you understand the term life support. It includes all of the systems responsible for producing oxygen, regulating the air supply, cleaning the air, climate control, redundant systems etc.

You aren't going to get enough oxygen from plants alone who in turn will require lots of growing lights and lots of power.

Earth does it. It's how you're breathing right now. And the math for how much plant mass is needed per human is well understood. NASA has been researching bioregenerative (plant based) life support for decades.

Plants absolutely do get the job done. You just need a lot of them, and yes proper lighting (powered by the nuclear reactor).

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3128007]

>>3127982

>>Anyone aware of what kinds of plant-like create the most oxygen?

Phytoplankton, I believe. Blue green algae is also excellent. In terms of land plants, I think it's wheatgrass.

[Anonymous No.3128008]

>>3127959

Windmills are huge and the dust will ruin them in no time.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3128015]

>>3127921

>>I don't think you understand the term life support. It includes all of the systems responsible for producing oxygen, regulating the air supply, cleaning the air, climate control, redundant systems etc.

>>You aren't going to get enough oxygen from plants alone who in turn will require lots of growing lights and lots of power.

Earth does it. It's how you're breathing right now. And the math for how much plant mass is needed per human is well understood. NASA has been researching bioregenerative (plant based) life support for decades.

Plants absolutely do get the job done. You just need a lot of them, and yes proper lighting (powered by the nuclear reactor).

[Anonymous No.3128017]

>>3127988

Yeah you need lots of them. I don't think you're going to have room for an artificial rainforest in a cave.

[Anonymous No.3128021]

>>3128008
Damn. About all those plans about solar panels... won't the dust ruin those too, or cover them?

[Anonymous No.3128037]

>>3128021

Yeah. You could clean them for a while but eventually the surface will give up. Solar is crap anyway, you'd need a massive array.

It's nuclear or nothing.

[Anonymous No.3128043]

>>3128037

Figure out high-density wireless energy transmission and Solar suddenly becomes the best power source.

[Anonymous No.3128056]

>>3128015
>>because the earth supports life, shuttles the size of minivans should be able to as well.

[Utility !!dErcPAxu910 No.3128070]

>>3128043
someones been playing simcity too much

[Anonymous No.3128075]

Oh, MadScientist!

I saw your other thread about implanting memories and have been trying to give you something.

Here, this might be of interest to you:
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/05/ads-implant-false-memories/

[Anonymous No.3128076]

>>3128043

Except no, that doesn't exist.

[Anonymous No.3128083]

>>3128070
>>3128076

Actually the problem isn't cramming power into a beam it's getting it from point A to point B without killing people, last time I checked.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3128084]

>>3128056

I didn't say that. I'm not even talking about shuttles. Where did that come from? I'm discussing growing vast numbers of crops inside of martian lava tubes.

[Anonymous No.3128092]

>>3128083 not killing people

A minor setback

[Anonymous No.3128125]

>>3128092

Only if you're trying to beam it down to a surface which has little radiation shielding and people on it.

[Anonymous No.3128179]

>>3128043

You'll have to deal with solar winds and with no maintenance opportunities you are absolutely boned if something goes wrong.

Better to keep that lifeline very close to your heart, as close as you can get without becoming radioactive steak.

[Anonymous No.3128181]

>>3128056
Do you really not understand the chemistry? Plants take in CO2 and light energy, and split it into carbon and O2. With enough plants (which is a lot) per person, people can breathe. There's nothing magical going on and no reason it can't happen off earth; it just takes enough plants.

[Anonymous No.3128207]

>>3128181
Enough plants when you're living in a cave with limited space. I'd rather rely on a reactor to do the main production and see the plants as an added bonus.

[Anonymous No.3128232]

>>3128207
>oxygen reactor

Does such a device exist?

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3128235]

>>3128207

>>Enough plants when you're living in a cave with limited space.

Limited space? In a lava tube?

[Anonymous No.3128257]

Alright, so in summation, there's an inflatable enclosure that occupies some space inside one of these lava tubes, and oxygen is produced through the aid of plant-life. Are the plants actually kept in the cave, or would they be connected to the surface somehow (to receive light)? Though I'm aware they may be sustained through the use of artificially produced light, wouldn't more energy be lost through that than through the use of sunlight?

[Anonymous No.3128265]

>>3128232
Yes

>>3128235
Are these lava tubes suddenly infinitely deep?

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3128272]

>>3128257

The plants would be grown in the tubes, because that's the cheapest way to provide enough pressurized space to grow the number of plants necessary. On the surface they would be exposed to sunlight, but also ionizing radiation.

LED grow lights are pretty low power. They wouldn't put too big a dent in the capacity of the nuclear reactor.

[Anonymous No.3128292]

>>3128257

The inflatable thing is for the entrance, cave is to be used 'as is'.

Yeah there's losses using artificial lighting but growing on the surface is out of the question at this point. If you want to use Martian soil for a grow medium you will want organisms in it, that work similar to the ones in earth soil so effectively this mission could be the first hard evidence of life outside earth.

[Anonymous No.3128309]

>>3128272

LED grow lights are still in the development phase to get the best spectrums but they're looking very promising.

They're a shit light to live in.

[Anonymous No.3128314]

>>3128292

Short term colonization efforts can be centered around lava tubes, long term plans can make use of a variety of engineered organisms spread all over the planet. Give it a few hundred years or so and Mars might get to be a green planet.

[Anonymous No.3128356]

>>3128314

And then once again mankind will leave the caves...