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/sci/ - Science & Math

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3109092 No.3109092 [Reply] [Original]

hey /sci/

I have come to a huge revelation about the US educational system that I hope can be rectified. Currently I'm a Greekfag in the UK finishing last year of 6th Form (age 18 to 19) and I am considering applying to an Top 5 Ivy League Uni (Harvard, Yale, Princeton etc). What surprises me when I looked at the academic requirements for international applicants at these Unis was that they asked me to take a SAT 1 and 2 subject SATs to prove academic aptitude and that my UK qualifications are not really considered (which fyi are apparently of a much more complex syllabus), which when I did some practice questions of I found the level of mathematics in SATs to be equal to what we do at GCSE in the UK (15-16) and even younger in other European countries. What also surprised me was that they are MULTIPLE CHOICE ?!, come the fuck on this shit was taken out of every exam here ages ago for making things too easy.
Now I am almost sure this is not the only thing you guys need to do to get into the most prestigious unis on the planet, but then again I have absolutely no idea of the US educational system, I keep hearing of some AP ?? classes you take, what are they like ? basically what is it like for an American to get accepted into such Unis, is it deceptively easy on purpose or has your educational system seriously deteriorated so far as apparent ?

(also no trolling attempt if I sound aggressive or insulting, I am just immensely surprised and curious)

>> No.3109106

bump foar answer, come the fuck on every USfag on here has gone through secondary education, so anyone can answer this

>> No.3109110

Our universities aren't famous for our undergrads. They're just cash cows.

>> No.3109112

>>3109110

so its so easy to get in cause no one really gives a fuck about undergrads ?

>> No.3109115

>>3109112
It's easy to get in because more undergrads = more debts to collect. It doesn't mean we're all idiots, just that we let idiots in to fail out after they've built up some debt.

>> No.3109125

>>3109115

ah so its deceptively easy to get in but theres a high turnover of undergrads ?

Cause fuck I know some retards in my school that if it was just based on SATs could enter these apparent "best universities on the planet", but I mean when you finish HS (17-18) what is the level of education like ? are you still doing basic algebra and statistics and shit like the SATs are ?

>> No.3109141

Have a high iq = high sat scores
The rest comes with motivation

>> No.3109143

>>3109125
>are you still doing basic algebra and statistics and shit like the SATs are ?
No, fuck no, I took calculus my sophomore year of high school ( I think I was 15 then...?)

The thing about the top 10 schools, is your competition. You're gonna need a near ace of the SAT, and you're gonna have to have outstanding high school coursework done. Or a really rich family.

But srsly, many others applying are going to have perfect SAT scores and 4.0 GPAs, it's still fairly difficult to get in to those schools.

>> No.3109150
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3109150

>> No.3109158

>>3109143

ah right I see, why dont they make the system more complex to have a higher degree of differentiation between levels of "excellent" "beyond excellent" etc, I mean the system looks like it was designed for only a minority to be able to ace it but by the sounds of it so many people are acing it that selection is becoming hit and miss again, also how is GPA calculated ? (always wanted to know)

>> No.3109163

>>3109125
Most people are. It makes me want to kill them all and start again.

>> No.3109166

>>3109150

I can tell I sound like a troll but my intention really is not to troll, I am just wondering how the richest and to a certain degree smartest academic system in the world functions, and hopefully get some insight how to make myself a better candidate if I do apply

>> No.3109175

>>3109125
Some schools, it really depends on your state and city. I used to live in Arlington Texas where the standard was much higher and you did basic algebra in the sixth or seventh grade depending on whether you were an AP student or not. I then moved to San Antonio Texas and the highest level of math offered at my High School was a pre-calculus class, which was on the verge of being canceled because no one took the class. There were only three science classes, Biology, Chemistry, and Physics. All of which were taught at an elementary level, just the basics.

The "T.A.K.S" which is the standardize test for Texas is at a ninth grade course level and declining because it's considered too hard.

Along with the scores go the budget for the schools.
Bad grades = Bad Budget. Makes a viscous circle.

>> No.3109182

>>3109175

holy shit that sounds crazy, how are you suppose to keep any academic advantage globally ?

>> No.3109183

>>3109158

You're right, people end up getting rejected for bullshit reasons because of this.

>> No.3109184

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2010/04/a-historic-year-for-harvard-admissions/

30,000+ apply to Harvard
3,000+ aced one part of SAT
4,000+ aced the other
3,600+ were valedictorians
only 2,110 were admitted
SAT isn't for distinguishing between the excellent and beyond excellent because there are other parts of the application that do that. That's why you don't just submit your SAT scores.

>> No.3109185

>>3109092

Ok, there are some things you need to learn about multiple choice. For high schoolers, multiple choice questions are a snooze-fest. This is true in the UK as it is in the US. Multiple-choice questions in college and on the SATs will be a whole different beast and you best be prepared for them because they will rape your asshole.

>> No.3109192

>>3109175
Wow, really? I live in the northwest and that's news to me, lol Texas. Up here everything to calculus is offered at the high school, if you get past it, you're allowed to enroll in the community college for additional courses. Same thing goes for any other type of class.

>> No.3109212

>>3109185

the problem is I did multiple practice SATs and they were a snooze fest, Im not a genius nor do I consider myself one, I'm above avarage intelligence (120-125 IQ) and I can cope well with examinations in the UK currently (with study 85-90%, without 65-75%) but I tried the mathematical portion of the SATs and the Physics (thought they would be the hardest parts) and the "hard" questions were about fucking perpendicular gradients of lines, I mean come the fuck on my sister knows that and shes 14. However I have no idea what actual uni work is like in the US, UK is pretty hard but because we do 3 years of Uni instead of normal 4 (first year of Uni we are still in like a senior level of high school) the work is similar to what I am doing now.

>> No.3109213

>>3109192
Public schools here need some help. They need more funding, better teachers, and less Mexicans.

>> No.3109231

mutliple choice is much simpler to grade, can help those who have a bad tendency to make errors while solving.

Also, op, we have a bad lower education (hence the multiple choice test designed for retards)
and the world's best upper education (which is why you want to get an education here)

>> No.3109232

>>3109212

Right. If you think you have a serious chance at an Ivy League school then the SAT better be easy for you. If it isn't easy for you, you won't get into an Ivy League school. That's what the test tells you.

>> No.3109239
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3109239

getting into college in the US is really easy because the schools and the government and the banks make shit bucket tons of money from students enrolling.

yes, if you get good SAT scores and good grades in high school you can get into most good schools. the elite schools you have to do something extracurricular that really stands out.

>> No.3109246

Why bother with the Ivy League, OP?

>> No.3109254

>>3109246

Prestige, obviously. Only reason to go.

>> No.3109259

>>3109246

OP here

would you say its not worth it ?
I mean the names Harvard, Yale, etc on your CV are acknowledged everywhere in the world by every employer, and hell there must be something interesting in the best unis in the world ( I am still applying to Oxford and LSE)
Also on that matter which would be the best US uni's for Economics/Finance based degrees ?

>> No.3109271

The US public (i.e. state) education system is often atrocious. The good students are separated from the rest: they either study at a private school or take Advanced Placement of study for the International Baccalaureate (that's me, I wrote my last exam today). The SAT is not representative of standards at top American universities; don't forget that everyone who is going to university takes it. Look up AP and IB, they are comparable to A-levels.

>> No.3109274

>how is GPA calculated ?

A = 4 points, B = 3 points, C = 2 points, D = 1 point, F = 0. To get the GPA, divide the points by the number of classes.

AP classes ("advanced placement") are supposedly college-level coursework that students at richer high schools can take. An 'A' in an AP class usually is counted as 5 points for GPA purposes. Some colleges will give you college credit if you score well on the standardized AP test for the class.

But to be honest, AP classes aren't really college level. People take them to raise their GPA. I had, what, a 4.3?

>> No.3109276

>>3109232

ah ok awsome. What do they mean when they ask for extracurricular ? do I have to compete at a national/international level or can I just be a practicioner of certain sports/ hobbies (Im an avid Chess player, judoka, I run my own trading account for 4 years, I play the violin to UK accredited standards and I go to the gym on a regular basis, is that the kinda thing theyre looking for ?)

>> No.3109282

>>3109271

yes im quite familar with IB, so AP is at the level of IB ?

>> No.3109289

Our educational system has deteriorated greatly. Our 12th grade material was probably covered in 9th grade for you UKers.

>> No.3109297

>>3109282
AP is a watered-down version of IB.

>> No.3109298

>>3109282
Yes. There are differences and AP has more multiple choice but the overall level of material is the same.

OP, if you're in the UK, just go to Oxford or Cambridge. In North America I believe they are above Princeton and around Harvard and Yale in prestige.

>> No.3109307

>>3109298
>mfw undergrads/high schoolers

protip: it's your graduate education that counts towards any "prestige".

>> No.3109308

If you could get into Harvard, try Cambridge or Oxford to be honest, cheaper and better quality.

>> No.3109309

>>3109276

Not the going to the gym thing, but some of that is along the lines of what they want. Participation in organized sports or music groups. My understanding is they also want volunteer experience and community involvement. Have you ever been in the Boy Scouts or that sort of thing?

>> No.3109314

>>3109298

I am applying to Oxford atm but for a few reasons I would like to get in the American academic system, (well only one reason, I would like to enter the New York offices of an investment bank rather than the UK offices, and US Investment Banks recruit almost exclusively from the US for their US positions)

>> No.3109321

>>3109309

nope not really, Ive been part of a group enterpreneur organisation called young enterprise, but never done any community kinda stuff

>> No.3109325 [DELETED] 

fuck you faggot. you won't get into any ivy leauge. the SAT math section is a joke, which is why you pretty much need a perfect score on it and a perfect score on the other sections to get into harvard.

>> No.3109331

>>3109325

thats more like what I expect to hear, so what will differentiate me from other students (except extra curriculars)

>> No.3109334

Yes american education is lagged. Seniors in high school usually dont go past calc 1.
I was in an accelerated program in my youth until 5th grade. which was probably equivalent to other countries. in 5th & 6th grade I just sat there twiddling my thumbs because I wasn't really learning anything new.
Even the dumb kid in our accelerated class was able to keep up with the "advanced pace", so I don't know why they do it so slow here in america.
And yeah, the SATs are dumb. Its multiple choice just so its easy to grade I guess.

>> No.3109338

>>3109314
A future IB, props man. Well then you're in a different boat, it's less about finding a school with lots of academic prestige and more about just finding one that a lot of banks recruit at.

>> No.3109341

>>3109092
Top 10 school fag here.
Test scores are just one component of a "holistic" admissions process for elite school in the US. Unlike other countries, they tend to place a lot more weight on things like extracurricular activities and achievements. One of my best friends got a perfect score on the ACT (SAT equivalent) but still got rejected from every elite school he applied to. From what I understand, all high scores on standardized tests do is make you competitive. You have to do something else to distinguish yourself in order to be admitted.

>> No.3109346

>>3109338

which also happens to be Harvard, Yale etc :P, thats why I' thinking about them

>> No.3109351

>>3109259
Aside from the Ivies, the University of Chicago, Stanford, MIT are all great for econ/finance.

>> No.3109359

>>3109321

Try to work on some of that then. They want you to demonstrate community involvement and leadership. Do some volunteer work or something. I'm sure you've read this on their website, but it's worth repeating since a lot of people seem to think schools should just take those with the best GPAs and standardized test scores:

What kind of admissions criteria does Harvard use?
There is no formula for gaining admission to Harvard. Academic accomplishment in high school is important, but the Admissions Committee also considers many other criteria, such as community involvement, leadership and distinction in extracurricular activities, and work experience. The Admissions Committee does not use quotas of any kind. We rely on teachers, counselors, headmasters, and alumni/ae to share information with us about applicants' strength of character, their ability to overcome adversity, and other personal qualities--all of which play a part in the Admissions Committee's decisions.

How important are extracurricular activities in admissions decisions?
Each case is different. Harvard seeks to enroll well-rounded students as well as a well-rounded first year class. Thus, some students distinguish themselves for admission due to their unusual academic promise through experience or achievements in study or research. Other students present compelling cases because they are more "well rounded" -- they have contributed in many different ways to their schools or communities. Still other successful applicants are "well lopsided," with demonstrated excellence in one particular endeavor -- academic, extracurricular, or otherwise. Some students bring perspectives formed by unusual personal circumstances or experiences. Like all colleges, we seek to admit the most interesting, able, and diverse class possible.

http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/apply/faq.html#20

>> No.3109364

>>3109351

isint standford and MIT ivy aswel ?!

>> No.3109361 [DELETED] 

>>3109331
actually, on the second thought, if you got a perfect 800 on each section of the SAT you would probably get in, since you are greek and they love diversity. but getting a perfect 2400 is no joke, only like 150 people get that score each year.

if you got a perfect 2400 and have top grades from your university you could get in probably.

>> No.3109374

>>3109364
Nope

>> No.3109382

>>3109334
im sorry most kids dont see calc in high school, and half dont even take it in college

but that doesnt mean america is all dumb\, plenty of smart people, foreign media LOVES to portray all americans as stupid, when every country is pretty much the same in terms of distribution, maybe americans focus on the wrong values.

>> No.3109384

This shit again. Globalization has rendered the college degree far less relevant than it once was. If you have talent, you will succeed. College or country be damned.

>> No.3109404

>>3109112
It's not easy to get into top 10 universities. I did a full IB program with several AP classes and had straight As through high school and I was rejected by 7 of the top 10 universities. Once you get down past the top 25 the curve goes way down, at least for private schools, but you'd be a fool to go to one of those when you're European.

>> No.3109427

There's far more to university admissions that rudimentary mathematics. You're expected, first and foremost, to have an excellent command of the English language, specifically the ability to form and defend an argument in writing. On top of that, you must demonstrate sincere involvement in extracurricular activities that are unified in theme without being limited in scope. A bunch of purposeless volunteer hours will get your application thrown in the trash. Finally, your admissions essays must clearly indicate, and this is most true at elite schools, what you want to do and why you need to go to college to do it. If you just want money and a job that requires a college degree, you're out. That's not good enough for a T-25 school. You need to explain to them why your life will be incomplete without a degree form the institution you are applying to. Sincerity, again, is key.

Excellent test scores and a spotless GPA are the easiest hurdles to clear.

>> No.3109426 [DELETED] 

>>3109384
>says the high school dropout from mexico

>> No.3109434

>>3109427
>that
*than. The English language, as is often the case for intl students like me, always seems to be a problem. I won't even get into my accent.

>> No.3109442 [DELETED] 

>>3109427
>You need to explain to them why your life will be incomplete without a degree form the institution you are applying to.
>Sincerity, again, is key.

how could you be sincere about that? if you apply to 20 schools you are obviously lying that your "life will be incomplete" especially since you don't even know much about any of them.

the real key is being able to write persuasive bullshit, and appeal to the libtard bitch who will be reading your esssay.

>> No.3109450

>>3109442
Something tells me you don't go to a lauded school.

>> No.3109459 [DELETED] 

OP, if you don't have any extra curriculars, you should just focus on getting a perfect 2400 on the SAT, since you seem to think it is so easy.

if you want more info go to collegeconfidential.com. its full of ivy league hopefuls, and it will help you tailor your essay, and help you make up fake extracurriculars which will be appealing.

>> No.3109481 [DELETED] 

>>3109450
you are trying to say that you have to believe that "your life will be incomplete if you don't get into XYZ university.

this is obviously bullshit, and the people who get into ivy leagues are far more rational than to fall for that, especially science majors. maybe it would apply to some libtard who was trying to get into Brown, but science is the same everywhere.

in addition, the Ivy Leauges use a COMMON APPLICATION where you only write 1 essay, dumbass, so why would you write that you NEED to get into XYZ, when XYY will read the same essay?

and being needy will automatically make you look less valuable.

>> No.3109491

Don't stress. As someone applying to med schools in the Fall, I'm convinced the best reason to go to a good school is simply to gain smart friends who make for good competition and inspiration. Teachers will be mixed in quality everywhere, so that's not a big factor, plus basic science is basic science at every school in the world. Focus more on improving yourself with the /sci/ guide.

>> No.3109503

>>3109427

luckily, although it may not be apparent on late night 4chan ramblings, my only true gift is the art of persuasive writing, UK education sculpts you to do this all your life but I have had the fortunate/unfortunate experience of proof reading my mothers academic papers (social science professor at a high ranking Russel group uni) since I was 9 or 10 years old, and as such I have acquired quite a knack of writing salient yet concise and enjoyable essays or arguments

>> No.3109513

>>3109092

we have asians indians and jews, which are pretty much the only reason top colleges mean anything right now.

education in the us is a joke, coming from an amerifag here.

>> No.3109558

>>3109481
You seem to be unacquainted with good rhetoric, as you falsely associate hunger with beggary, but that's ok. As long as you get the gist of my argument, which is to write skillfully, and have more to go on than numbers.
>>3109503
I come form the Singaporean system, which is highly praised, but which I feel is lacking in writing skills. The UK system is superior in this aspect, and it should resonate with the schools you apply to. Good luck with your applications. I enjoy seeing /sci/ons do well, though I advise you not to forget the point illustrated in >>3109491 which I interpret as a reminder that this is a mere undergraduate degree, nothing too special in our time.

>> No.3109665

>>3109513

American high school is weird. A 4.0 at some places is nothing compared to others. Has a lot to do with the different cultures in different areas and the fact that the US is so spread out.

Massive subsidies are given to poor school and they continue to suck. (but at least they pay for the kids lunches lol)

When I was a kid I lived in an uppity conservative town where 90% of the kids were tanking mostly AP and IB courses. It's all just class warfare. The privileged live off the misfortune of the weak. sigh Such is the new American way.

>> No.3109681 [DELETED] 

>>3109665
>psuedointellectual fucktard detected

>> No.3109690

file egw tora 8a paw IB tu xronu se ena idiotiko stin ellada ke 8elo na xero an pistevis oti ine kalitero apo to geniko likio, ke an ine kalo ama 8elw na bw se kalo xeno panepistimio? 8a to elega sta agvlika alla 8a lene xamili ilikia gia 4chan ke tetia, ti les esi?

>> No.3109691

So get this. 1/5 of the population of the US is 14 and under. Toss in a few percentage points for retards and suddenly this figure doesn't seem so bad.

>> No.3109697

>>3109092

You're right about a US school being better than say Oxford for finance just because of the location.

The brokers/banks would rather you intern in the US.

Don't forget the sentiment that real world experience is much more important than education that exists in the US. Firms will hire people that have proven themselves before green college graduates. This is very different than in Europe.

>> No.3109698

>>3109681

Nothing I said was an opinion.

>> No.3109759

>>3109681
>reality-denying conservative retard detected

>> No.3109776

>>3109698

Isn't me >>3109665 btw

>> No.3109778

yeah, SAT math questions are ridiculously easy. I got a perfect score first try not studying on regular section and math 2 subject test. Really, the only way to not get a perfect score is to make a stupid mistake or be an idiot.

>> No.3109790

>>3109778

Got a perfect sore on SAT and SAC 2 in 7th grade.

Didn't get accepted to Harvard. (Cal Tech is better anyway lol)

>> No.3109822 [DELETED] 

>>3109759
explain this phrase:
>The privileged live off the misfortune of the weak.

how does that work? you just said that inner city ghetto schools get more money, yet they still do worse. your statement implies that the rich are taking money away from the ghetto schools, which is actually the opposite of what happens.

which btw, is completely retarded. ghetto schools contribute nothing. any logical person would put more resources where you are getting a higher ROI, but of course dumbass liberals like you would like to do the opposite. im not "conservitive" I don't even support capitalism, I am more technocratic, and therefore I support logical uses of resources.

>> No.3109826 [DELETED] 

>>3109790
>asian detected.

>> No.3109841

The whole system is a pile of shit. I would go into detail on what's wrong and how to fix it. But then I realize nothing is going to change no matter how much I complain.

>> No.3109929

>>3109822

I'm just mad I wish equality of opportunity existed in America. I'm not really a liberal in the sense that I believe in a free country you should be free to fail. It's too bad some people are born destined to fail. I need to stop living in should land though.

>> No.3110415

not sure if troll...

Still, the SAT is an intelligence test - it does not test advanced math/reading concepts. The difficulty associated with it comes from the tiny curve (on math you can't miss any questions if you want a perfect score, on reading you can miss perhaps 1) and time pressure. only about 300 people (out of 3 million that take it every year) ever get a perfect score. For a feel for content-based test difficulty, look at the AP tests & SAT subject tests.

>>3109158

GPA is the average (arithmetic mean) of your grades, usually calculated on a 4 point scale. A=4 points, B=3 points, C=2 points, etc.

>>3109276

Simple hobbies are almost never sufficient for admission to top schools in the US. Current Harvardfag here, and this past school year (it just ended) I had 2 roommates. In high school, they:

1. Held a major charity concert & raised $55,000 for African music education, won several state awards in debate & a handful of national awards for playing the violin. Also class president if I remember right.

2. Wrote (and published) 2 papers on quantum tunneling & won around $30,000 dollars in scholarships for the work. Editor of the school newspaper & national delegate to some youth drug control conference.

3. (me) Published 3 studies in psychology & 1 in physics. Also won several state and national awards for speech, and several for debate. Finally I started an online game discussion board that eventually grew to some 200k registered members by the time I applied.


For harvard (and any top 10 American school, really), these extracurriculars are pretty average.

>> No.3110464

>>3110415

>For harvard (and any top 10 American school, really), these extracurriculars are pretty average.

This is quite true. Just being in the chess club wont get you into Harvard. Only one kid in my graduating class got into Harvard and he was student body president, a great student, an even better person, an excellent writer, played lacrosse, was in a few clubs, I think he was on the math team and his dad died of cancer when he was 15 or 16. Great guy.

I'm more of a shoot for the middle guy myself.

>> No.3110480

>>3110415
>writing journal publications in high school
This guy is trolling, don't listen to him. Very, very few professors will let a high school kid into their lab. And even if they do, the kid isn't going to be around long enough to do significant enough work to get a publication (it typically takes more than just one experiment to get a publication). The only way a high school student is getting publications is if the scientist they work under is just giving them a free ride.

Also
>For harvard (and any top 10 American school, really), these extracurriculars are pretty average.
Isn't true either. Publications aren't even average for grad school admissions. Having one automatically makes you very competitive for admission into a top program (especially if it's first authored).

>> No.3110482

Want to get into one of the best schools in the world?

>Score 2400 on the SAT
>Have a 4.00 GPA
>Have $100,000 per year to spend on tuition + living expenses

Believe it or not, its the last one that's tough.

>> No.3110490

uh they make the tests multiple choice so that they're easier to MARK

>> No.3110504

Here's an idea of how the American Educational system is a joke.
In 6th grade, the students were split up between 2 math "plans" depending on their score in math in 5th grade. These "plans" would dictate how your math experience went for the rest of your public school career. I got bumped out of the "advanced" plan because it filled up, and was forced into the "regular" plan. Through the regular plan, by the time I finished high school, I only officially knew up to Algebra 2 (I taught myself up to the Calculus 1 class). Meanwhile, students in the "advanced" plan, went up to Calculus 2.

That's right, I (and several of my friends) got placed into the retard plan, because my shitty school district didn't want to pay a teacher to teach another 6th grade math class.

>> No.3110505

Protip: thousands of people with 2400's on SAT's get rejected from ivies every year. For ivies, SAT's mean jack shit. Do not insult the American higher education system, it is the one thing America has on the world and the one thing that will keep it as the world's leader.

>> No.3110521

>>3110480


err, no. See: http://www.societyforscience.org/isef/

>> No.3110524

havent read much of thread but 30,000+ apps for Havard alone? Sounds like it's multiple choice so you don't have to employ a whole country to grade massive numbers of papers, just get 1 computer to do it for you!

>> No.3110522 [DELETED] 

>>3110505
>Protip: less than 100 people get a 2400 on the SAT out of the 1 million that take it each year.

>> No.3110529

A 2400 on the SAT is the 99.98th percentile. If 1 million people take the SAT in a year, 20,000 people score a 2400.

>> No.3110534

>>3110522
so less than 1 out of 10,000

?

>> No.3110573

>>3109184
One of my friends from high school went to Harvard as part of the 2014 class (he was one of those valedictorians). You wouldn't know he's particularly smart at first glance. Did well in class, but not mad genius scientist. SATs I've heard were in the high 2000s, but none of us wanted to divulge that information.

What set him apart was his research. Made semifinalist at both Siemen's and Intel. Not terribly difficult to do, but it takes dedication.

Point is that most people who go to Ivy leagues and equivalents aren't usually geniuses who are somehow above the others. For the most part, they're normal people who are generally proficient across a wide range of academic subjects and happen to have a strong interest in an area they focus on, whether it's sports or science, or community.


Also, the reason American universities are well renowned is for their graduate programs. Since I haven't seen the difference for myself, I'll just loosely quote C.N. Yang (from the stony brook masters series; I think it's on youtube):

American universities integrate research in education at the graduate level. Research requires a lot of infrastructure and money, which is why most universities abroad traditionally focus on education and are struggling to catch up to the Americans in this regard. However, undergraduate education (and by extension, secondary education) in America is lacking compared to the other nations. That's why when I studied at the University of Chicago, I had an advantage despite my lacking grasp of English. So if you want the best possible education, get your undergraduate education in China; get that firm foundation abroad. Then, when you're ready for graduate studies, come to America."

>> No.3110597 [DELETED] 

>>3110529
>>3110529
you aren't even close. why don't you look something up instead of pulling numbers out of your ass?

http://www.ajc.com/news/four-area-students-score-131891.html

>> No.3110607 [DELETED] 

>>3110597
>Four area students score 2400 on SAT
>Atlanta, GA
>all 4 are asian
>Atlanta isn't even known for having a large asian population

THIS BULLSHIT TEST IS CULTURALLY BIASED!!!!!!!!!

>> No.3110617

>>3109092
OP, if you want to go to those schools generally everyone has close to a perfect score that is applying. What they really look for in applicants is that they do things outside of school. Be it varsity sports, community service, teaching yourself to program and writing a program wit that knowledge or starting your own business. You are not competitive because you have a perfect sat or gpa.

>> No.3110634

>>3110482
You know that many Ivy league schools such as harvard have a zero loan policy that makes it so you don't have to go into debt if you need to attend. Stop pulling shit out of your ass and stick to your community college.

>> No.3110635
File: 47 KB, 553x640, 1249224616839.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3110635

>>3110607
lol. Damn asians keepin the whiteman down

>> No.3110645

>>3109092
OP, I'm sure you have heard of IB. It's a damn shame that AP credits/classes are more valued by our universities here. An IB student wont have much more of an advantage when it comes to admissions, respect is rare. I've known some students that were rejected from a top state university, yet that guy that took just a few AP classes and got a 4.3 GPA can get in easily.

It's also harder to get college credit from your IB classes, most elite places only take a 6 or 7, and they have to be an HL (there goes your SL's). One could easily score a 5 on all their AP exams and get more credits easily. But as someone said here, I think undergrads in a private/ivy university really are cash cows, they'll have to retake classes they could've gotten credit for and end up staying there longer.

>> No.3110654

all this shit to worry about, and it aint even worth it in the end

>> No.3110657

>>3110634
Actually, the zero loan policy is for families that earn less than a certain amount, generally 60k or 75k a year. So if a student comes from a family that earns, say, 100k a year, yet has siblings also attending expensive schools, it's entirely possible that financial aid will be sorely lacking at the ivies. A lot of the push for low income students is based on the idea that they're the first in the family to attend college, as opposed to a well-educated family that has more kids than they can afford to send to expensive colleges.

>> No.3110659

>>3110645

This is changing as IB becomes more popular AP has just been around forever.

>> No.3110673

>>3110654
Yeah, okay bud. Look up starting salaries from these schools in the field you are in and compare it to your school's starting salary.

>>3110645
The reason they probably didn't get in was because they thought being in an IB course was enough. They fucking advertise that gpas and sat scores are not the deciding factor. There is an entire subjective essay portion that is just as important as your gpa and sat. They get so many applicants that have 4. whatever that they end up deciding on who they like more from reading their essay. They also expect that you have something interesting to write about in your essay, they don't want the generic sports story.

>> No.3110674

>>3110607
No, damaging education for multiculturalism is biased. You should have had harder classes.

>> No.3110676

>>3110521
How does that rebuke anything I said? A research conference like that is not publishing research. You can carry out a summer project and get into the Intel thing. A publication typically requires YEARS of full time work to put together. Hence why when labs are looking for new students or lab techs they want you to stick around for at least two years so that you "can do something substantial".

If anyone does get a publication out of the research they did for the Intel conference, it's because they got stuck on as a third or fourth author after the rest of the lab continued working on the project after they left and then subsequently published (that or the student came in on the tail-end of a project, in which case they would still wind up as a low-end author).

>> No.3110683

>>3110657
Financial aid takes into account the amount of family members attending university.
Also look at this before you talk about what you don't know.
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2007/12/harvard-announces-sweeping-middle-income-initiative/

>> No.3110697

>>3110676
Not the person you are responding to but yeah, I can't see a high-school student writing for a science journal. However highschool students doing research for a local college is not unheard of. My friend and I approached a professor and asked to do research with him for free as part of an internship. We weren't just given grunt work either.

>> No.3110718

>>3110415
This horrible, horrible thread should've ended with this post.

>> No.3110732

>>3110676

If you were to look through the list of ISEF winners & finalists you would find that most have at least one paper published. While yes, some are only as 3rd authors, many are PIs.