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/sci/ - Science & Math

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3074980 No.3074980 [Reply] [Original]

Let's say I could take your brain with all your memories, and put it inside a superhuman robot that looks just like you. Except its not your body. You still have all your memories and know who you are.

Everythings ok right? You still know who you are you are you!

Now, let's say instead of taking your brain. I duplicate it, with all your memories, just like before but now there are two of them. And put one in a superhuman body and replace the other back in your old body.

Now there are two of you! WHICH ONE IS FUCKING YOU!? HOW DO YOU KNOW!?

>> No.3074999

*also this is theoretically possible

>> No.3075008

the one that is me is the one that i can move.

>> No.3075020

>>3075008
Both of you can move.

>> No.3075029

>>3074980
Read Gantz?

>> No.3075037

>>3075029
No I haven't read that and I don't know what it is (until I googled it)

>> No.3075040

>>3074980
No one cares OP.

>babby's first duality paradox

>> No.3075045

>>3075040
Thanks, first one to give me something I can search and research upon, let this thread 404 now

>> No.3075050

>mindblown? really? consciousness develops in parallel with the body and will never be transferable. mind/body is one.
in answer to your query, therefore, hypothetically speaking neither would be u, but both would be 'similar'

>> No.3075056

>>3074999
**God is also theoretically possible

>> No.3075062

>>3075020
but i mean, i cant be 2 people.
the one who i am inside is me, and the other would be like a clone, who looks and acts exactly like me, but isn't me.

>> No.3075066

DURR HURR HOW DOES I DETERMINISM

>> No.3075086

>>3075050
So if I have brain surgery and my brain is taken out, and replaced. I'm not me anymore?

>> No.3075097

>>3074980
Whichever body your original brain goes in is 'you' even though there is a copy of your brain it would have a separate conscious and not be the original 'you'

>> No.3075101

>>3075062
but he has your memories and everysingle thing that you have

not just your dna

>> No.3075107

I am whichever one I am experiencing. Logically I can only be experiencing one of the bodies. I'll be whichever one I am experiencing. The other will be a duplicate.

>> No.3075118

>>3075062
Hey genius, op is asking in which one of them "you" would be.

>> No.3075110

>>3074980
OP your question does not matter. You will become different people the moment you experience different things. But because I am not retarded and understand that if I went through the same experiences that my other went through we would be the same, instead of arguin over things I would have him sit down and explain to me why he thinks a certain way.

Same if I had a computer emulate myself. I would trust all the decisions that it made because the decisions it makes are the decisions I would make if I were perfectly logical and not under the influence of my human biology.

Now lets say if I where to have my weaker self killed to have the superior one replace me. Well it wouldn't really matter since I am an enlightened atheist I understand that there is no soul so when you die it is essentially the same as turning off a computer. I wont realize that I am dead. My other self however will feel as if nothing happened and there was a seamless transmission between bodies.
Of course I would want my death to be painless and without discomfort.

>> No.3075120

>>3075101
yes i know, but i can only be controlling one of the bodies, the other is controlled by a duplicate consciousness.

...basically this: >>3075107

>> No.3075124

>>3075110
*arguing

>> No.3075130
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3075130

>>3075050
>>mindblown? really? consciousness develops in parallel with the body and will never be transferable. mind/body is one.
yfw

>> No.3075140

>>3075120
>>3075107

Although, now that I think about it, no one else would be able to tell which one was me. I guess the best thing to do would be to consider both of us to be separate people, just with the unusually similar history.

>> No.3075145

>>3075097
So the body / brain combination can only be you?

What if you have prosthetic arm, and then leg, and then body, and then head?

>>3075107
Yes but which would be the original?
Which is the clone?

>>3075110
What the fuck that doesn't make sense though.
Because say at the moment your brain is duplicated. The one you experience is the original body. The robot to YOU would be the 'new clone or w/e' even though its not REALLY a clone.

Then would you want to kill yourself?

>> No.3075148

But wouldn't the original brain still be you, you wouldn't be the other being as you are just duplicating memories. It would just be another human being sharing the same characteristics as the original except you wouldn't control the duplicated brain at all. The duplicated brain becomes fully independent due to chemical reactions within each brain.

>> No.3075155

>>3075110
>>3075107
>>3075097
>>3075062
>>3075056
>>3075050
>>3075040
>>3075008
So many retardeds

>> No.3075162

>>3075145
We are the same person. I would just consider him my ally and he would as well.

I wouldn't kill myself, that would be stupid. But if I had to and I had a copy I wouldn't mind one bit. You only truly die when your ego is erased from reality.

>> No.3075163

>>3075145
>Yes but which would be the original?
>Which is the clone?

The first one would be the original. Duh.

But on a serious note, the question is meaningless if they are identical. They are two separate entities with suspiciously similar pasts.

>> No.3075168

>>3075155
Implying that your theory isn't as equally as retarded.

>> No.3075174

>>3075163
Then as soon as you duplicate your brain?
You kill yourself? And create two new similar entities?

>> No.3075185

>>3075168
that wasn't op
(Im op)

I don't have a theory but I do have questions

but again you might not even be talking to me

>> No.3075197

>>3075174
Depends on how the process works, really.

From an external standpoint, that's close to how everyone else should think.

But from an internal, subjective standpoint, which ever one I am experiencing is "me"

>> No.3075206

>>3075110
This is the only right answer, you are all retarded if you make a clone of yourself and then are scared of your clone.

>> No.3075211

so where is the center of consciousness. that is the question

>> No.3075215

>>3075174
That would only work if the cloned brain didn't become fully independent. I'd assume at the point when the memories are transferred, immediately each brain would start different mental processes than each other. It would be highly unlikely that they would both immediately think along the same lines all the time. That being said it's not entirely impossible just improbable.

>> No.3075218

>>3075140
I doubt your wife would choose you.

>> No.3075220

Hey dumbasses, how would you know if what you are the copy or the original? The copy has ALL of the memories of the original,and EK you are fucking dumb as usual.

>> No.3075228

>>3075220
Exactly, this is why

>>3075110

is right. But all the retards here ignored him.

>> No.3075224
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3075224

OK, some(stupid) people didn't get op's question "WHICH ONE IS FUCKING YOU!?".
I will put in other way:
you are sitting in your couch holding a beer in your hand, before you notice anything someone freeze you in a way that no structure is damaged, then he make a copy of your brain with all your information then he put thiss copy into your skull while he put your original brain in a clone's/robot's skull. When he un-freze you, in a way all you body will be just like before the freezing, will you be holding the beer?

>> No.3075235

>>3075206
A clone has the same dna.

THIS has the same memory and every single neuron your brain has.

>> No.3075239

>>3075224
It doesn't matter

>>3075110

>> No.3075241

>>3075224
You are better off asking, hey guys, who's seen The Prestige?

>> No.3075253

>>3075241
what?

>> No.3075254

BUT WHICH ONE IS FUCKING YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!????????????

>> No.3075260

>>3075239
you still don't get the question.

>> No.3075266

>>3075253
The Prestige by Nolan, the ending brings up this question, but I think I;ve ruined it for you now.

>> No.3075271

>>3075254
The original brain. The other one is a separate sentient entity.

>> No.3075280

>>3075254
You are you. Your twin is your new twin.

>> No.3075284

>>3075271
But how would you know which is the original, dickface? Both brains would have memories and thus believe that they are the original.

>> No.3075294

They're both me, but then they diverge, and neither of them is the old me.

Every morning I am reborn slightly different from the man who died yesterday.

Next?

>> No.3075291

>>3075224
No, see, no one gets the shits (read: no ones a deist) thinking about duality.

>> No.3075304

>>3075107
This.

"You" could be either the super-robot or your old meaty self.

>> No.3075310

>>3075294
Except the hardware is different, so one of them is you and the other isn't. But which?

>> No.3075322

>>3075294
ok, again, every morning you are a little different then before but it's not op's question, which one of the body you would be "trapped into", which one of them you would be able to move?

>> No.3075328

>>3075294
you basically reworded what i concluded in an earlier post

>> No.3075329

This question is like branching growth like evolution. If you look at one species split then evolve into two different species, you could ask, which one is the original species, but the question is meaningless unless you answer the Ship of Theseus problem. Both groups can claim to be the original species, because "species" is not a static thing, it changes slowly, just as personal identity does.

>> No.3075331

>>3075291
wait, what? seriously I have no idea wtf your are saying.

>> No.3075338

>>3075329
irrelevant

>> No.3075344

>>3075338
No, if you can answer that question, you can answer this one.

>> No.3075348

>>3075107
>Logically I can only be experiencing one of the bodies.

Nowhere in logic is this mandated.

>> No.3075352

>>3075304
WOW, you must be really smort rite?
now genius which one of them would you be? and why? If you believe you can't know which one before the eperience could you explain why not?

>> No.3075369

>>3075310
NO ONE CARES.

>> No.3075363

>>3075329
>>3075344
just read this, ok ?: >>3075224

>> No.3075381

>>3075369
Then nobody will get a correct answer. Good day, sir.

>> No.3075389

>>3075363
You are asking about the flow of experience. We all have a flow of expereince from one moment to another, but what you asking involves something NO ONE has ever experienced.

THERE IS INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER

>> No.3075450
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3075450

>>3075381
>>3075369
>>3075389
HOLY SHIT, IT'S PHILOSOPHY, CAN'T YOU GET IT, IT'S NOT ABOUT ANYONE CARING NOR THAT THERE IS DATA TO PROVIDE A CORRECT ANSWER(IT'S BASED ON A SUBJECTIVE VALUE IT CAN NEVER BE ANSWERED CORRECTLY), IT'S JUST A QUESTION TO IMPROVE OUR THOUGHT ABOUT THE SUBJECT THROUGHT THE INQUIRING OF OUR PREVIOUS CONCEPT BY LOGICAL AND REASONED ARGUING!!!!!
YEAH I MAD

>> No.3075457
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3075457

>>3075381
Thanks, now that makes sense.

>> No.3075465

>>3075450
Then my answer is, I don't know.

>> No.3075483 [DELETED] 
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3075483

>>3075450

>> No.3075490

>>3075483
asking a question thats already been answered

>> No.3075496

>>3075483
>YEAH I MAD
reading is hard for some people.

>> No.3075507

>>3075450
My answer is its useless philosphy from the 200th century and if we keep considering this crap as paradigm changing, then we'll ignore useful philosophical discussions.

>> No.3075528
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3075528

>>3075507
mfw 200th century

>> No.3075548
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3075548

OP, listen now.

There is no logical answer. Any answer attempted in this thread is just a guess.

We have absolutely 0 data because a) we don't know what the fuck consciousness is yet and b) there is no b) now that I come to think of it.

Why the fuck bring up questions no one can answer?

>Ask why the universe began
>???
>Profit

>> No.3075573

>>3075528
Don't worry, they'll wake you one day.

>> No.3075634

There will be the copy you, and then the original you.

The original one that has been copied is you, the other one is just someone who acts/thinks like you.

>> No.3075639
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3075639

>>3075548
Careful, we have the power to devolve you into meanial labor in the butterfly camp.

>> No.3075655

>>3075634
You gotta stamp one "FILE" and one "COPY" and then you'll know.

>> No.3076229

>>3075548
ask questions
have discussion
gather ideas
projects
profit

>> No.3076236

>>3075655
nope, because if you take your brain and put it in a robot then is it a file or copy?

>> No.3078222

>>3076236

The robot isn't a copy because it's a robot, not a clone. The brain would still be considered File. It's like switching the internal PC components into a different chassis.

I really don't see how this is confusing for you people.

>> No.3080240

>>3078222
No it wouldn't, If you take your brain in its current state and put it inside another "body" it would still be you. It's just a transplant.

>> No.3080247

Yeah, I'd fuck me.

>> No.3080253

This question is really simple. The new one is like a twin.

They would start off from the same state, but their experiences would quickly change who they were.

>> No.3080457
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3080457

>>3080247

New philosophical debate.

Sex with your clone. Masturbation or Gay Sex?

GO!

>> No.3080485

>>3075062
>>3075062
even using OP's information, this is true.

you will always be you. chaos theory (in a sense) proves this.

theoretical: you both sleep in the same bed. the bed is against a wall. one sleeps near the wall, the other sleeps on the opposite side.

the one on the opposite side falls off the bed. he doesn't get a good night sleep.

you both have a huge test the next morning. you do well, because you had a good nights sleep. your bodydouble fucks up because of lack of sleep, and doesn't get into med school because of it.

you become a successful surgeon, other you becomes a bum.

paradox solved.

>> No.3080566

You all forgot the assumption that a person consists of body, spirit and soul.
the body can be changed ok, might be true. But i would say you are not the same person if you trasnplant your brain into an other body or even a cyborg.
you assumed the spirit, gererated by the brain, can be transplanted, ok, then the spirit, all of you that is generated by your brain, could be duplicated into a cyborg for example.
but then comes the soul, the thing that guides you from within, its not the brain itsself and not the body. it is something constructed by theses two, it holds spirit and body together, without it you wont be you. its that energy that created us all, the universal energy of which is all made, everything that exists. so you cant duplicate your whole you, because you cant duplicate your soul. you can only create an artificial new life form or soulless robot. But did you think of the possibilities of parrallel dimensions in which there is a similar plot like in this reality but for every possible change there is created another parrallel universe, there are infinite numbers of them all over each other. ?? yes?

>> No.3080613

>>3080485
But which one would you be experiencing.

>> No.3080634

>>3080566
>time wasting troll detected

>> No.3080722

>>3080566
>>>/x/

And this >>3080247 is the only answer to this kind of crap.

>> No.3080741

>>3075145
>So the body / brain combination can only be you?
>What if you have prosthetic arm, and then leg, and then body, and then head?

The body has nothing to do with it really. The original brain would be the one your conscious exists in. While a clone brain would share the same memories (at least initially), your frame of reference would remain with your original brain. You would be unable to know if you were the original without someone filling you in on who was the clone because you would both have the same set of memories.

>> No.3080755

>>3080722

see

>>3080457

>> No.3080756

OP, the one fucking me would be the one on top obviously. Then, neither of us would be virgins.

>> No.3080770

>>3080741
So if you replicate the brain to perfection. Your conscious would remain in the original brain?

Interesting. Most sensible post in this thread.

>> No.3080801

The copy is only a temporal participant after the switch has been flipped, and at the moment the memory streams into a separate perception filter, a separate consciousness arises. If you created two brains with the same atoms and duplicated the consciousness perfectly, the perceptions change and so follows your experiential reference point. If you shook hands with the perfect copy, you wouldn't be shaking hands with your self.