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/sci/ - Science & Math

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File: 17 KB, 943x507, trollgenerator.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3050357 No.3050357 [Reply] [Original]

OK /sci/ I found this troll physics pic. Assuming you could make a seal that would let the balls of air in without letting water out, why wouldn't this work?

>> No.3050367

this was posted yesterday for christ's sake

>> No.3050372

>Assuming you could make a seal that would let the balls of air in without letting water out

no

>> No.3050374

idk why dont you build one and try it out rather then being a faggot?

>> No.3050373

energy needed for balls to penetrate water > energy from floating balls

>> No.3050375

>Assuming you could do the impossible, why would the impossible not be possible?

>> No.3050376

Because you need enough force to push through the seal and the water is a weight too.
Your tiny balls of air won't be enough.

>> No.3050379
File: 88 KB, 1024x768, 1285785551706.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3050379

>implying it wouldn't

>> No.3050385

because generator is spelled wrong

>> No.3050392

>>3050357
All it needs is a highly evolved maxwell's demon.

>> No.3050418

>>3050373
This, basically.

>> No.3050430

what if there were a way to contain the water without needing a seal? If we could find a way to contain the water using some passive field which requires no energy, then would it work?

>> No.3050458

The water isn't the problem, it's the friction of the seal preventing the water.
It'd have to be strong enough to resist the pressure of the water and rigid enough to avoid leaking any of the water. This would make it tough to get any energy from the process at all because it would be lost to friction with the ascending balls.

>> No.3050488

Instead of the seal, use an airlock system that lets the ball through one door while the other is shut, so no water can flow down.

You jelly?

>> No.3050492

>>3050488
>implying water won't get in the airlock system.

>> No.3050501
File: 2 KB, 207x344, tubes2c.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3050501

>>3050492
It's not an airlock system, it's a waterlock system. It's supposed to have water in it.

>> No.3050503

>>3050367
Sorry I don't come here as often as I should.

>>3050374
Are you saying surface tension? It seems to me that the energy used to penetrate the water is constant while the energy gained by a ball passing through the water can be increased by increasing the depth of the water.

>>3050374
>idk why dont you build one and try it out
I don't think that it will work. I understand that this idea is ruled out by the conservation of energy. I can explain why a motor turning a generator that powers the motor wouldn't create perpetual motion without blindly pointing to conservation of energy. I can't do the same with with this idea. This makes me think that I'm missing something.

>rather then being a faggot?
OP is always a faggot. I can't change what I am.

>>3050372
>>3050375
>>3050376
>>3050392
I had to read up on maxwell's demon. The wiki said that someone proved that maxwell's demon would generate more entropy than it would destroy.

I'm guessing the way to apply this to this perpetual motion idea is to somehow prove that any device that let's balls in uses more energy than is produced by the buoyancy of the balls? The problem I'm running in to is that the energy cost is payed once for every time a balls passes through the water tank. The way I understand it, the ratio of energy gained by passing through the tank to the energy lost by passing through the valve could be increased by making the tank deeper.

>> No.3050516

>>3050503
>>3050503
The deeper the tank, the heavier the water

>> No.3050519

>>3050501
How would your pic even work?

>> No.3050539

OP thing takes more energy to power thing than it can produce, ie. you loose electicity not gain it

>> No.3050541

>>3050519
Open G1 to let the ball through. Then close G1 and open G2. Then you need some sort of wheel on the left side to extract energy from the balls as they fall through the air.

>> No.3050544

>>3050516
Oh I think I get it now. Even if the seal were perfect, if I pushed a ball in to the water I would be pushing the water up against gravity.

>> No.3050550

>>3050541
Nice. But you need something to tie several ball together right? otherwise a single ball wouldn't be able to go back to G1 by itself.
Also your pic is false because the water from the right should equal the water from the left.

>> No.3050563

>>3050544
No because air naturally goes up when into water, but the balls wouldn't be strong enough to push through the seal I think. But I'm not an expert in physics.

>> No.3050569

wouldn't the generator just eventually run out of power?

I mean it's not like it's actually making power, it's just being moved by a generator.

>> No.3050575

>>3050550
Put a little scoop at the top and bottom.
The waterlock system prevents water from flowing down, so that the water levels don't equalize.

>> No.3050606

>>3050575
But if there shouldn't be water flowing down, why is there water?

>> No.3050614

>>3050606
Huh? The water is there to lift the balls.

>> No.3050621

Let's say something:

If you are able to get one of those sci-fi water container (can't remember where I saw this) that made the water a floating cube (in the movie a guy walks in it, like, a fucking floating cube)

I guess it would work...

>> No.3050636

>>3050614
No, the water below G1.
Also can you explain me what a scoop is google translate is of no help? is it a ball?

>> No.3050640

>>3050636
Please.

>> No.3050658

>>3050636

its a round object, like a spoon.

>> No.3050671

my guess is that the generator would generate enough friction to stop the whole system.

>> No.3050696

>>3050636
A scoop is an object that.. well

scoops? things. Like a shovel, or a spoon.

>> No.3050699

When the balls are in the water they wont keep the chain moving, they just wouldnt stay on the bottom.

>> No.3050741

The weight of the water is countering the bubble from breaking the seal. This weight also forces the bubbles up. They cancel.

>> No.3050932

Force doesn't come out of nowhere, and that includes buoyancy. For water to push a ball, the ball needs to first displace some water. Trollage taking advantage of intuition fail.