/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.3040151]

DMT- the strongest hallucinogen on the planet, naturally produced by the human brain during dreams and is the cause of near death experiences. Shamans have used it for thousands of years to connect with their spirits, 'spiritual awakening' through meditation under surveillance from scientists and CAT scans has shown to be caused by huge amounts of DMT being released by the brain.

It is a Class-A drug, classified as a hallucinogen. People over the world who have taken its synthesised form have hd life-changing experiences, and there have been no reported deaths. Because it's naturally produced in the human body, it an be dealt with easily by our bodies and is harmless. People from seperate continents have described the same 'inter-dimensional beings' with precise detail.

The weird thing? No one fucking knows about it. FRANK doesn't have it on their page, and when I phoned them up all they could say was that it was Class-A and a hallucinogenic drug. Policemen I've asked in school don't know of it, teachers don't, but it's there in the drug laws. There's little to be found about it in any government records.

So, what the fuck /sci/? Is this just something that's slipped under the radar? Or is this a full-blown conspiracy?

[sage No.3040195]

Just in case you forgot

Sage goes in every field

[Anonymous No.3040281]

If you read the (in my opinion amazing) effects of DMT, people get scared. I mean, you got to understand them: you see aliens and travel at high speed into another universe by taking an illegal substance. That's hardcore trippin in their eyes. And that's all they want to know: it's a HARD drug, and you shouldn't do it. Rick Strassman did a lot of research (I'm sure you'll know: The Spirit Molecule). There has to be a paradigm-shift in the thinking about hallucinogens first, people have to see them as useful tools.

[Atwill !kelPcGZQlE No.3040296]

>>3040281
>paradigm-shift

[Anonymous No.3040317]

>>3040296
a change in the basic assumptions

[Anonymous No.3040323]

lol, more mystichallucinogenfags,

there's no evidence or proof that DMT is produced in the human body.

how the fuck would a CAT scan show DMT in the brain anyway? I don't think you know what the fuck a CAT scan does.

[Anonymous No.3040330]

>>3040281
True
But useful? I'd doubt it.
Taken under the right circumstances it's safe tho.
Although i have to say, i don't trust a normal (non-thinking?) person with these kind of things.
That's when accidents happen.

Where could you get DMT anyway?

>>3040323
Wikipedia says so.
(I typed DMT in google out of curiosity.)

[Anonymous No.3040332]

>DMT- the strongest hallucinogen on the planet

Salvinorin A was here.

[Anonymous No.3040334]

>>3040323
Also haha the cat scan part is pretty true.

[s No.3040342]

>>3040330
no it doesn't

>Several speculative and yet untested hypotheses suggest that endogenous DMT is produced in the human brain and is involved in certain psychological and neurological states.
>Several speculative and yet untested hypotheses suggest
>Several speculative and yet untested
>speculative
>untested

[Anonymous No.3040344]

>>3040330
oh man but they sure are useful. The things you can learn in a trip, the insights in can give. IF you use em in a right way (paradigm-shift, not tripping on parties and stuff). Man you really don't know what you are talking about.

[Anonymous No.3040345]

>>3040334
I doubt that. I'm fairly sure that CAT scans cannot probe molecular chemistry.

[Anonymous No.3040357]

>>3040345
That's what i ment: You were right about the CAT scan part.
Sorry for not writing it down properly.
>>3040342

Oh, the dutch wikipedia says "The substance is made by multiple organisms, including humans" Not really a precise translation, but the same point.

Sorry, my bad

[Anonymous No.3040361]

>>3040151

>Shamans have used it for thousands of years

can you provide source on this? i'm truly interested in learning how they concentrated this stuff/where it comes from.

[Anonymous No.3040363]

>>3040151
>Policemen I've asked in school don't know of it
They are lying. The police are aware of DMT.

http://www.thisissouthdevon.co.uk/news/Police-quiz-following-sacred-drugs-swoop/article-2600610-deta
il/article.html

[Anonymous No.3040371]

>>3040344
You shouldn't do anything with everything you see there.
It's a hallucination, fake.
YOu should be very careful what you do and what you don't learn from trips.

Also note that i never have tried hallucigens, where would i find shrooms or LSD?
In amsterdam.
Not asking precise locations, just how would you get in touch with a dealer?

[Anonymous No.3040372]

>>3040361
go to erowid dot org. click 'plants and drugs' and then look for DMT. All there is about dmt, is in there.

[Atwill !kelPcGZQlE No.3040375]

>>3040317
I know my reaction pic didn't express this very well, but my objection had less to do with the definition of the term, and more with the fact that, in order for something to cause a paradigm shift, it would have to be demonstrably correct first. Elevating hallucinogenic drugs from recreational substances to "useful tools", solely because of the vividness of the hallucinations caused by DMT, doesn't really do the trick.

[Anonymous No.3040383]

>>3040371
you have never tried them, and yet you know that they are fake. If you read a bit about lsd, you'll find out it confronts you with your (deepest) issues, and tries to solve them with you. MDMA for example also is a VERY useful tool to solve issues you don't even know you have.

[Atwill !kelPcGZQlE No.3040386]

>>3040383
>you have never tried them, and yet you know that they are fake.
Welcome to science, where data sets are generally more valuable than personal anecdotes.

[Anonymous No.3040388]

>>3040383
But that's wrong you retard.

[Anonymous No.3040395]

>>3040383
Ecstasy? Useful?
That, I don't buy.

Also, note that you see and hear things that are not there, how would you value that?
Although it is affected by your mindset and stress, that doesn't mean it is useful.

[Anonymous No.3040396]

>>3040388
no it's not. I agree that lsd and shrooms are fun, but they CAN ALSO BE very very useful.

[Anonymous No.3040397]

>>3040371
LSD and shrooms you can't really buy anywhere (assuming you're a UK fag, I don't know about the states but I think it's fairly similar) because the trade-off for dealers just isn't enough. You can grow shrooms pretty easily, spores are legal and so are the needed materials. Salvia and DMT (in plant form) are also legal and can be bought online. There are other legal hallucinagens, but you'll have to look them up yourself. Visit 420chan moar.

[Anonymous No.3040401]

>>3040396

In what ways?

[Anonymous No.3040407]

>>3040401
They open your third eye.

[Anonymous No.3040410]

>People over the world who have taken its synthesised form have hd life-changing experiences
>life changing experiences

Yep, they turned into a no-good stoner.

>Because it's naturally produced in the human body
Never been proven. It was only a hypothesis to explain near-death experiences. DMT has never been found in any human tissues.

[EK FAN CLUB No.3040413]

>mfw I'm apparently the only one who cares about Sally

Can't speak for the other things discussed here, but it's pretty good for introspection.

[Anonymous No.3040415]

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt.shtml

[Anonymous No.3040417]

>>3040397
Thanks!
I will look into it when i feel like doing it someday.

I want to do it, but i don't want it to change my life.
Y'know, I hear all those stories about how LSD changes your view about the world etc.etc.
And that, I don't want to happen.

Think about it...I COULD BECOME RELIGIOUS AND...SUPERSTITIOUS

[Anonymous No.3040412]

>>3040361
actually they use ayahuasca
for how long who knows
not like these people have written records
they were too busy tripping their balls off on hallucinogens

[Anonymous No.3040419]

>>3040401
>>3040395
check the MAPS. org research. Be amazed

[EK FAN CLUB No.3040426]

>>3040407
>mfw
>>3040410
>>they turned into a no-good stoner
>mfw

killeveryoneinthisthread.jpg

[Anonymous No.3040431]

>>3040419
Can you cite any specific, peer-reviewed studies?

[Anonymous No.3040436]

Already said but worth saying again.

There is no evidence that DMT is produced by the brain. Strassman is at best a biased hack who did no actual scientific research.

I'm all for giving people the freedom to put whatever chemical they want in their body, but don't come here spouting your hippie bullshit pretending it's even remotely similar to science. DMT is a drug, it's not well known because it's harder to synthesize than other drugs. If there were DMT plants that grew DMT apples, which you could boil to make DMTea then you'd find the drug to be in a different predicament all together.

Now get the fuck off /sci/ and go back to 420chan.

[Anonymous No.3040432]

>>3040397
dude but shrooms grow naturally.. atleast here in germany..
and if you're desperate go to a trance or goa festival, they've got everything

[Anonymous No.3040445]

>>3040436
>Now get the fuck off /sci/ and go back to 420chan

no man, this is science. This should be treated as science

[Anonymous No.3040450]

>>3040436
Congratulations your an ignorant dumbshit fuck wank

[Anonymous No.3040451]

>>3040436
1. Go to Wikipedia
2. Look up DMT
3.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine#Endogenous_DMT
4. Find out there's DMT in my urine and excrement
5. Shit brix

[Anonymous No.3040454]

>to connect with their spirits
>'inter-dimensional beings'

[Anonymous No.3040455]

>>3040445
Half of this thread is science
Other half is shit about how it is "useful"

[EK FAN CLUB No.3040465]

>>3040432
>shrooms grow naturally
They grow naturally in most temperate regions (I think). The trouble is not getting yourself poisoned. A simple grow box can produce a fair quantity of mushrooms more easily for someone who doesn't into mycology.

>>3040431
I know of this one.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/aug/12/medicalresearch.drugs
Guardian cunts don't link to the article.

[Anonymous No.3040471]

>>3040455
there have been a lot of studies (maps.org) that show that hallucinogens can be useful, so why isn't that science? If it can help to better peoples life, why isn't that science?

[EK FAN CLUB No.3040479]

>>3040436
>If there were DMT plants that grew DMT apples, which you could boil to make DMTea ...

Not sure if trolling.

[Anonymous No.3040486]

>>3040451
Suddenly jenkem!

[Anonymous No.3040487]

>>3040397
>>3040397

>shrooms you can't really buy anywhere

Dude... they fucking grow out of the ground round here... do some research, take a day trip into the country side... gather shrooms and return to city.

[Anonymous No.3040500]

>>3040487
Enjoy your poisoning and subsequent awkward hospital visit.

btw
>buy
was the question

[Anonymous No.3040514]

>>3040371
als je van amsterdam bent, koop gewoon truffels. Als je echt lsd wilt, vraag dan in een smartshop als er geen andere klanten zijn waar je lsd kan vinden.

[Anonymous No.3040522]

also: http://www.beckleyfoundation.org/research/

[Anonymous No.3040553]

I don't even know what most of you guys mean by "useful". Yes, some drugs have very specific, very provable benefits, like the painkilling effect of cannabis, but I don't see how their *hallucinogenic* properties could be "useful" to the point of causing a scientific paradigm shift.

[Anonymous No.3040566]

>>3040500
mfw I know all about what mushrooms not to pick because I watched some vhs tape about mushroom recipes and picking them aas a kid like 10 times!

I have no desire to do shrooms though, and I don't even like eating mushrooms in the first place. How does that even work.

[Anonymous No.3040568]

>>3040500

ahhh you've fallen for the classic identifying things in nature is hard idea...

I know people that think that every berry on a bush is poison! if it's not in a shop it could kill me!

[sage No.3040571]

>>3040553
you obviously don't understand how perception bends thoughts.

[Anonymous No.3040577]

>>3040553
treating ptss, anxiety disorders, low self esteem (a real disease these days), ...

[Anonymous No.3040601]

>>3040577
Better to have these people out of their minds for 8-10 hours than to have them zombified by SSRI's

[Anonymous No.3040613]

>>3040601
exactly. Take the problem by the root, don't cover it up

[Anonymous No.3040616]

>>3040566

One of my geology lecturers pointed them out to us on a field trip...
Him: "Hey look what I found guys!"
Us: "um yeah, we spotted them awhile ago, what's the deal with this outcrop it looks like..."
Him: "You can tell that these are the 'funny' sort because..."
Us: "... dude the rocks, we know how to find shrooms"

[Anonymous No.3040624]

>>3040613
Taking Drug A is "covering it up", but taking Drug B is "taking the problem by the roots"?

[Anonymous No.3040634]

>>3040151
There's so many drugs people don't know about but dmt is very ancient and well known, it just doesn't get much attention because people interested in it barely ever appear in news or criminal records. Unlike the cases with weed or heroine.

here's some interesting systematic trip analysis i stumbled upon recently
http://psychedelic-information-theory.com/
http://www.tripzine.com/listing.php?id=dmt_pickover

[Anonymous No.3040635]

>>3040616
how do you find the right shrooms?

[Anonymous No.3040640]

I once saw my dead cat sing the theme from "The Super Mario Bros. Super Show" after sniffing glue.

Paradigm shift.

[Anonymous No.3040643]

>>3040624
yes, because drug A (Prozac, ...) makes you emotionless. If you don't have emotions, you can't be scared, depressed etc, but you also can't be happy. Is that really curing? Drug B (Lsd, mdma, ...) can solve the problem, by just taking it away. You can still be happy (or unhappy at times, which isn't a bad thing) afterwards.

[Anonymous No.3040650]

>>3040643
I'm on Cymbalta, and I can still feel all of those things.

[Anonymous No.3040661]

>>3040624
Drug A(SSRI's) work in a certain way on the serotonin system in the body

Drug B(LSD for example) also works on the serotonin system, but in a totally different way.

Back in the 50s and early 60s a good bit of work was done to find practical uses for LSD in therapy. However the hippies got their hands on it and ruined it for everyone. The same thing happened with MDMA and ravers.

[Anonymous No.3040663]

>>3040650
okay, that's good for you. But you still have to take them, right? If you stop taking them, you'll be depressed, anxious or whatever it is you have again. So it's not cured, it is covered up.

[Anonymous No.3040664]

>>3040650
No, that's just the corporatist drug making you THINK you can feel them.

[Anonymous No.3040671]

>>3040663
If you sold drugs for a living, would you rather sell a treatment or a cure?

If it were my means of living, I'd do everything I could to keep people from having a cure.

[Anonymous No.3040676]

inb4 soma

also you're all tripping balls, the only people that need to take drugs are the naturally boring ones

[Anonymous No.3040687]

>>3040635
>>3040635

Psilocybin...
just fucking google "identify Psilocybin" jesus...

[Anonymous No.3040691]

>>3040671
yeah but don't you see the wrongness of that? Every day millions and millions of people take (and pay for) anti-depressants, but it's pathetic. The cure is there, but it's (relatively) unstudied.

[Anonymous No.3040694]

I don't know about you guys, but this guy makes it sound good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYDgmpiE-U0

[Anonymous No.3040698]

>>3040671
How would hallucinogenic drugs cure a chemical imbalance, though? Not every depression is psychosomatic.

[Anonymous No.3040700]

Bahaha.. I laugh at all the people who have never tried LSD and still try to say that it's useless.

[Anonymous No.3040703]

>>3040676
>also you're all tripping balls, the only people that need to take drugs are the naturally boring ones

I have tried MDMA and I enjoy LSD. I don't talk about my experiences with anyone else. I did not take them to be a less boring person. I took them because I was curious.

Warning: taking MDMA at a rave may result in the user making out with some random ugly chick. Beware of MDMA goggles.

[Anonymous No.3040704]

>>3040445
Fucking troll. Go away.

[Anonymous No.3040707]

>>3040691
It's not like I'm selling weapons to combatants on both sides of a war. I'm helping people, just in a way that maximizes my benefit, too. Nothing wrong, there. If they don't buy my treatment, then I'll be forced to sell something they will buy...like a cure. It's not my fault that they're willing to value my interests ahead of their own.

[Anonymous No.3040711]

>>3040691

And you my friend seem to not understand the concept of anti-depressants.

The point of them is that if you are depressed there is usually a reason for that. Taking care of that problem might be difficult when you sleep 20h per day and are depressed the other 4 hours. So to fix it you take drugs who numbs you to pieces and gives you the ability to take care of the issue and then stop being numb.

Not saying there is only one solution to the problem, but you seem to think the drugs themselves fix you.

[Anonymous No.3040713]

Bahaha.. I laugh at all the people who have never tried magnetic bracelets and still try to say that they're useless.

[Anonymous No.3040724]

>>3040640
how did he sniff glue if he was dead

[Anonymous No.3040725]

>>3040436
It's not hard to isolate DMT from various plants. Any idiot can do it in his kitchen.

DMT is definitely endogenous in humans.
Kärkkäinen J., Forsström T., Tornaeus J., Wähälä K., Kiuru P., Honkanen A., Stenman U.-H., Turpeinen U., Hesso A. (April 2005). "Potentially hallucinogenic 5-hydroxytryptamine receptor ligands bufotenine and dimethyltryptamine in blood and tissues". Scandinavian Journal of Clinical and Laboratory Investigation 65 (3): 189–199.

Science is knowledge. Almost anything is a suitable subject of scientific inquiry.

[Anonymous No.3040737]

>>3040711

man... I thought I was bad when I hit the 16 hours of sleep a day point... 20hours would be awful.

[Anonymous No.3040742]

>>3040725
DMT extraction usually requires a strong base, stronger than most kitchens contain.
And lots of drugs are endogenous. Bufotenin, morphine, GHB, ect.

[Anonymous No.3040743]

>>3040713
Can't tell if you're joking or just stupid

[Anonymous No.3040745]

>>3040711
no no no i certainly do not think that only taking the drugs fix you, in the end it has to be you who changes yourself, but they sure help you a great part of the way. Anti-depressants can do this also, but in a far less profounder way. Also, these anti-depressants are something you have to take for a longer time (some have to take them forever). This is what i mean that SSRI's are covering depressions up, while LSD can truly fix them. They can show you WHY you are depressed, and not cover the depressed feeling up

[Anonymous No.3040752]

>>3040713
DMT has been known to sometimes cause actual hallucinations, where the subject accepts the hallucination as reality. The strangeness and euphoria of the experience qualify it as a peak experience. Peak experiences have been known to have long-term effects on attitudes and beliefs.

I once successfully treated my own depression by sky-diving. It was a peak experience for me, and it seemed to work for a couple of years. I don't think it's fair to call any peak experience a cure...however, it can be effective for quite some time.

[Anonymous No.3040758]

>>3040332

Sorry, but you're wrong.

[Anonymous No.3040761]

The number of peer-reviewed studies in this thread is staggering. You sure convinced me, OP.

[Anonymous No.3040764]

LSD/DMT for depression is fucking stupid.
Ibogaine on the other hand has a lot of research supporting it.

[Anonymous No.3040765]

>ITT chucklefucks who think that just because something happens in your brain, it isn't real

>ITT chucklefucks talking about interdimensional space alien goat fuckers from mars

Listen, you chucklefucks, I'm going to lay this down nice and clear.

From a purely secular, non-mumbo jumbo perspective, Hallucinogens do not just create random hallucinations in your brain. What hallucinogens do is give the brain additional tools to think, and most of those tools have you trip motherfucking balls and have astounding leaps of logic & sideways thinking through symbolic, intuitive means that people are normally unable to attain in their daily lives.

Think about how fucked up most people's daily lives are, and how vapid their daily thought processes. People often change their lives by sitting down and thinking hard about this shit, until they know what they need to do to change their lives on an intrinsic, emotional, intuitive level. Hallucinogens amplify this effect, or potentially get you into the state quicker if you have a road block for some reason.

Hallucinogens are not something that you take, and then they magically fix all of your problems. On the contrary, you need to have a proper mindset in order to truly appreciate what you're going to experience, so that your life may be changed. This shit isn't a precise science, it's a personal experience relating to the workings of your own mind.

[Anonymous No.3040769]

>>3040765

Interdimensional Creature-fags, get some fucking skepticism and realise that even without MAGICKAL SPACE ALIENS that life is pretty damn Miraculous. I mean, shit, how the fuck DO magnets work?

Scientism-fags, Science is not the only way truth can be learned. No, fuck you, it isn't. Science is the cornerstone on which all these ridiculous technological advances are made, but Science has very little to say with how, or why things should be done. Science has no say in good and evil. It only has a say in facts. True appreciation of Science requires an accompanying mindset that appreciates the awesome wonder of the universe, and that shit ain't scientific.

In conclusion, stop being chucklefucks.

[Anonymous No.3040772]

I've often wondered about this compulsion to seek intoxication in other people.

All I've ever gotten from experimentation is frustrated from the way drugs and alcohol inhibit my thought processes.

I enjoy immensely the world inside my mind and nothing aside from new information helps it produce a good feeling.

[Anonymous No.3040776]

>>3040742
http://www.erowid.org/plants/mimosa/mimosa_chemistry1.shtml

Naphtha, lye and 10% ammonia are the only ingredients one would have to go looking for, in this recipe. None are hard to find, though.

I could absolutely not make LSD25, but I could easily isolate DMT.

[Anonymous No.3040779]

every post in this thread has been made under the influence of drugs. Therefore all arguments are rendered invalid.

[Anonymous No.3040784]

>>3040745

Well, if you were getting butt-raped by uncle Johnny from age 2 to 9, then you don't really need DMT to find the problem for why you are depressed.

And I am guessing that DMT will help the ones who "need" to take AD the rest of their lives just as much as AD do. It's my way of saying I think the doctor has just given up on them and it's better that they're numb than depressed.

Comfortably numb as they say...

But for sure, it's terrible that this is not looked into more by scientists or doctors as a alternative. Buying stuff from Ron on the corner is kinda not the way I would want to fix myself in any way.

And to be honest, my reason for trying DMT would just be for the experience(s).

[Anonymous No.3040787]

>>3040769
It's either all of this bullshit...
Or the drug itself makes the user think the experience is profound.
Gotta go with Occam's Razor on this, Dr. Chucklefuckster.

[Anonymous No.3040789]

>>3040761
did you see
>>3040725

[Anonymous No.3040807]

>>3040624
>Taking Drug A is "covering it up", but taking Drug B is "taking the problem by the roots"?

Holy shit! Different drugs have different effects! Who'd thought it!?

[Anonymous No.3040815]

>>3040787

>I have no understanding of psychology

[Anonymous No.3040824]

>>3040769
Science can say what is good, as in what is beneficial to human life, and what is bad, as in what is harmful to human life.

[Anonymous No.3040829]

>>3040553

Except it isn't a scientific paradigm shift. Science has nothing to fucking do with it.

And that is okay.

Science is not the only way to glean knowledge. Think about how scientific your opinions on what is good and what is bad are.

THEY'RE NOT FUCKING SCIENTIFIC

[Anonymous No.3040835]

>>3040824
No, that's societys job.

[Anonymous No.3040836]

Low to moderate does of psychedelic drugs are fun, but they don't do much as far as getting your brain churning. Most people will think all music is amazing and do stupid things.

If you really want to get the juices flowing you will need more psychedelics(7 grams of shrooms, or 5 hits of LSD) However taking more psys gives you a higher risk of a bad trip.

[Anonymous No.3040840]

>>3040807
Yeah, and I was wondering what the (fundamental) difference is in this specific case.

[s No.3040846]

>>3040769
>I mean, shit, how the fuck DO magnets work?

Oh god not this fucking shit again, take an introductory electromagnetism course. Not good enough for you? Go do quantum electrodynamics. it's not a fucking mystery, you are all just too damn lazy to learn.

>Science has very little to say with how, or why things should be done.

"Things should be done"? What things? Why would I care about this inane, vague "things"?

>Science has no say in good and evil.

No shit. Why would it? Who cares about what some fucking apes think about morality?

>It only has a say in facts.

As it should. Anything else is extraneous, irrelevant. Especially in fucking /sci/.

>True appreciation of Science requires an accompanying mindset that appreciates the awesome wonder of the universe, and that shit ain't scientific.

No, true appreciation of science comes from appreciating truth and being curious. This mechanical-elves hippie bullshit is just that, bullshit.

>>3040772
Most people don't feel inhibited really. LSD for example, has been used as an aid to understand very complex systems (http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v18n1/v18n1-MAPS_24.pdf).). It's just you.

[Anonymous No.3040851]

>>3040835
Well, seeing what a job society has made of it, with their religious morality, I'd be willing to let science take a swing at it, just to see how they do.

[Anonymous No.3040862]

>>3040829
>THEY'RE NOT FUCKING SCIENTIFIC
Which is why I don't "know" them. They're subjective, and simply my opinions. Science really is the only tool we currently have to gain actual knowledge.

[Anonymous No.3040866]

>>3040836
that's not true, i've had very profound conversations that changed my life and how i think of myself and other people on just a small dose of mdma. It's not the amount you take, but how you handle it.

[Anonymous No.3040869]

>>3040824

Science can help determine what is beneficial for human life, yes.

But making any statement about what is "Good" is not scientific.

[Anonymous No.3040870]

>>3040765
Cool data, bro.

[s No.3040872]

>>3040829
>Science is not the only way to glean knowledge.
Can you name three more?

[Anonymous No.3040874]

>>3040869
Nor can it be objectively true. Drugs can't help with that either.

[Anonymous No.3040878]

>>3040872
Drugs, meditation and regression therapy.

[Anonymous No.3040880]

>>3040772
>All I've ever gotten from experimentation is frustrated from the way drugs and alcohol inhibit my thought processes.

Dissociatives and/or nootropics.

[s No.3040889]

>>3040878
>Drugs
Is there something in the molecules that will provide me with the knowledge?

>meditation

lol

>regression therapy

Sorry, I didn't realize I was dealing with a moron, have fun.

[Anonymous No.3040890]

>>3040851
Seems like we've gotten pretty far. I guess you and dr mengel could try again.

[Anonymous No.3040892]

>>3040846

>Oh god not this fucking shit again

It was a joke, buddy.

>"Things should be done"? What things? Why would I care about this inane, vague "things"?

Actions, buddy.

>No, true appreciation of science comes from appreciating truth and being curious. This mechanical-elves hippie bullshit is just that, bullshit.

I'm not saying anything about machine spirits, guy. I just put a more emotional spin on appreciating truth and being curious.

[Anonymous No.3040893]

>>3040846
The subject of morality without religion is dealt with by several prominent scholars as well as more popular culture-based writers. These include Robert Buckman (2002) Can we be good without God, Richard Dawkins (2006) The God Delusion, Michael Shermer (2004) the The Science of Good and Evil, Christopher Hitchens (2007) God Is Not Great, Paul Chamberlain (1996) Can we be good without God and Richard Holloway (1999) Godless Morality: Keeping religion out of ethics.

[Anonymous No.3040914]

>>3040890
You know the rule...the first to resort to comparisons with Nazis loses...try again next time.

[s No.3040924]

>>3040892
>Actions, buddy.

Meh. You can formulate moral systems using science. Their worth is debatable.

>I just put a more emotional spin on appreciating truth and being curious.

What's the use?

[Anonymous No.3040926]

DMT is produced in the human body, if you don't know this you've literally never read anything on the subject.
Rick Strassman conducted a 100% scientific study on the PSYCHOLOGICAL/MEDICAL effects of DMT. His conclusion was that it had no long term positive effect on people's psychological health.
He also was shocked by the reports of the subjects, which indicated that either the mind is capable of producing 100% convincing virtual reality without any external input, or that the subjects were truly experiencing some sort of external reality.
He also noticed the similarity of DMT trips to mystical experiences, dreams, NDEs, and OBEs. He thus HYPOTHESIZED that DMT might play a role in these things, to one degree or another.

The amount of ignorance in this thread is startling, for a board that claims to pride itself on enlightened knowledge and science.

[Anonymous No.3040927]

>>3040889
i'm not the guy who posted 'Drugs, meditation and regression therapy', but if you laugh with the fact that meditation can provide knowledge, you're a morn

[s No.3040936]

>>3040927
What knowledge can be gleaned from meditation?

[Anonymous No.3040937]

>>3040893

Ayn Rand deserves to be on that list, whether you agree with her ideas or otherwise. She has written extensively on this subject.

[Anonymous No.3040943]

>>3040872
Philosophy and Art are two. Not really sure about a third, because Philosophy, Art, and Science seem to be a pretty cool trifecta to me, and any others I can think of fit under the umbrella of Philosophy and Art.


>>3040862
>Actual Knowledge

All knowledge is actual.

[Anonymous No.3040951]

>>3040936
inner knowledge, (which is far far more superior than scientific knowledge imo) acceptance, ...

[North! !/RC/Wj9Ve. No.3040961]

I got some shit online one time from a guy, one free dose to get me interested. after reading up on it a bit, I chickened out (i was 17) and sold the stuff instead. Bam, undercover agent. Turns out I had Dimethyltryptamine, or DMT for short. Spent 3 months in jail before trial. Feelsbadman.jpg

[Anonymous No.3040967]

>>3040961
oh man you should have just hit that

[Anonymous No.3040972]

>>3040924
>Meh. You can formulate moral systems using science. Their worth is debatable.

Debatable in the realm of philosophy, buddy.

>What's the use?

It feels nice, buddy.

>>3040936

Personal, subjective knowledge about yourself, and any backwards-ass side-ways thinking philosophical leaps of bullshit you manage to find from it.

And how fucking awesome it feels, buddy.

[s No.3041002]

>>3040951
>inner knowledge

Eh... Do you not apply any logic? Does meditation just suddenly probe data into your brain?

>(which is far far more superior than scientific knowledge imo)

See why people laugh at you? Knowing yourself is nowhere near as important as, say, the mass of the electron or the proof of fermat's last theorem. No one but you cares about you.

>acceptance

How is that knowledge?

>>3040943
>Philosophy and Art are two.

Science is one side of philosophy, I wouldn't completely separate them from each other. How does art net you any knowledge though?

[Anonymous No.3041016]

>>3040972
>buddy
>buddy
>buddy

[Anonymous No.3041020]

>>3041002
no you do not apply logic, you stop using logic, that is what meditation is. You make the compulsive thinking stop.

You're just not ready.

[Anonymous No.3041031]

>>3041002

Yeah, that INNER KNOWLEDGE>SCIENCE guy is a chucklefuck.

Science is -A- philosophy, my mistake. But, if you want to start making that argument, I can pull a zillion different philosophies out of my ass and say they're all ways of gleaning knowledge.

Art nets you personal knowledge about what is pretty, and also by being the conduit by which other ideas can be expressed. I would maybe argue that Art is an auxiliary that greatly multiplies learning in other fields by easing the expression of that idea into an easily recognisable format.

These formats can be narrative, symbolic, linguistic, and musical to name a few.

Also art is used in expressing scientific discovery. You ever seen a diagram of the solar system? Art in function, buddy.

[Anonymous No.3041037]

>>3041016

Buddies gonna bud.

[Anonymous No.3041038]

>>3041002
>Knowing yourself is nowhere near as important as, say, the mass of the electron or the proof of fermat's last theorem.
as a matter of fact, knowing the mass of the electron won't change your life at all. It's useful for the world and/or science, just not for you, personally.
>No one but you cares about you.
too bad you are you, and you care about yourself, probably more than you care about everything else. You can deny it, sure, but, perhaps, Darwin would disagree.*

*sorry for bastardizing his figure and ideas, I suppose you'll understand

[Anonymous No.3041046]

>>3040872
why has no one said EXPERIENCE. Unless everyone thinks Science <=> Experience.

[Anonymous No.3041047]

This thread is so full of shit.

Fuck off to /x/ and take your anti-empirical bullshit babble with you.

[Anonymous No.3041048]

>>3041031
inner knowledge > science

i mean by this is: if everyone would achieve inner knowledge (enlightenment if i may), the world would be a better place. Science can still happen, if people achieved inner knowledge, but science would be used differently (better, for good)

[Buddy Buddy No.3041053]

>>3041002
>Knowing yourself is nowhere near as important as, say, the mass of the electron or the proof of fermat's last theorem. No one but you cares about you.

Holy shit, how did I miss this, buddy?

I am sad that you hold this view. I'm going to say that knowing yourself is very important, because you are in fact the conduit with which you interact with the outside world. If you don't develop yourself, then your interactions with the outside world are not going to develop.

[Anonymous No.3041056]

>>3041048

Someone should beat you up. For really real.

[Anonymous No.3041057]

>>3041048
"Inner knowledge" doesn't mean anything.

[Anonymous No.3041067]

>>3041053
Since he's not the center of the universe, he's actually right in pointing out that this is comparatively insignificant.

[Buddy Buddy No.3041078]

>>3041048

Enlightenment is not something everyone can achieve RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW. Only a stupidly small amount of people are capable of doing that.

Inner Knowledge =/= Spiritual Mumbo Jumbo.

I agree that personal development and things like that are very important, and really undervalued my modern society, but it's a little bit of a stretch to say that your personal experience with Hermes is what everyone on earth should accomplish right here right now.

[Anonymous No.3041080]

i liek spiritulism and fuzzy new age drivel, because its unfalsifiable so i can never be wrong

thats y its better than stupid science

[Buddy Chucklefuck No.3041110]

>>3041057

Yes it does, you chucklefuck.

>>3041067

Of course he's not the centre of THE universe. He's just the centre of his. Everyone is the centre of their own universe. I don't understand how you buddies can think that your personal experiences are unimportant.

[Anonymous No.3041114]

The Hallucinogen N,N-Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) Is an Endogenous Sigma-1 Receptor Regulator
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/323/5916/934.abstract

N,N-dimethyltryptamine-an endogenous hallucinogen. Barker. Int. Rev.Neurobiol., 22, 83-110 (1981)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19278957

I stopped reading, has the "not produced in the body" idea been shot down yet?

[Anonymous No.3041137]

The guy in this thread who keeps shitting on science and talking up meditation, among other hilarious things, is on the wrong fucking board.

I'm not saying all your points are worthless, although most of them are, but they don't belong here. Art and Meditation are not science - stop presenting them as such. Are they good? Can they help people? Maybe. But it's not fucking science.

[Anonymous No.3041141]

>>3040926
strassman's book says a lot of shit that his legitimate scientific work doesn't.

[Anonymous No.3041163]

>>3041110
Maybe we're not as self-centered as you,

No one has claimed that subjective impressions are unimportant, by the way. Just less important than actual, empirically substantiated knowledge.

[Anonymous No.3041164]

the most interesting thing about DMT is it's relationship to dreaming. i believe this may be the reason it has been carefully and quietly buried; it could hold the secret to a 'cure for sleep'. and that would have unimaginable effects on our society.

as a drug, it really is just another hallucinogen, nothing fantastic.

[Chucklefuck Buddy No.3041192]

>>3041163

>Just less important than actual, empirically substantiated knowledge.

No-one has bothered to try explain why they think this.

I'm no arrogant egotist, but I can safely say that everyone is self-centred.

Everything you do is in relation to you. There is nothing that you experience that is not in relation to you. What I do not understand is that a lot of people seem to downplay or outright ignore the relationship between us and the outside world as relatively unimportant.

[Grothendieck !Topos4qCwc No.3041211]

>>3041192
And yet here you are, interacting with the fatuous and unimportant outside world, I think we'd all be quite a bit happier if you retreated permanently to the world inside.

[Anonymous No.3041212]

I just administered myself a rather large quantity of DMT and saw something around the lines of the image depicted. I kept hearing '300k starting' and 'any job i want', does this resemble anything special from a /sci/entists perspective?

[Anonymous No.3041217]

>>3041192
>No-one has bothered to try explain why they think this.
Because subjective impressions, opinions and intuitions are unreliable. It'd be unreasonable to put them above empirical evidence.

[Chucklefuck Buddy No.3041224]

>>3041211

I never once said that the outside world is unimportant, I was just asking why you thought the inside world wasn't.

Reading comprehension, buddy.

[Chucklefuck Buddy No.3041239]

>>3041217

I am not saying that they should be put over empirical evidence. I am say there are many things that can not be empirically discussed, namely things that are not based in cold hard fact.

Did you guys all miss me saying in >>3041031

>Yeah, that INNER KNOWLEDGE>SCIENCE guy is a chucklefuck.

Because I'm pretty sure you need to get some reading comprehension.

[Anonymous No.3041259]

>>3041239
>I am say there are many things that can not be empirically discussed, namely things that are not based in cold hard fact.
Things with no factual basis cannot be "known", though.

>Because I'm pretty sure you need to get some reading comprehension.
That was posted as Anonymous. How am I supposed to know that was you?

[Anonymous No.3041275]

Bullshit. DMT=dimethyltryptamine. There are many derivatives of tryptamine compounds that are more strong, depending on how you measure. If you do so by mol or weight, LSD is certainly the strongest.

Read TIHKAL.

, Derp

[Chucklefuck Buddy No.3041289]

>>3041259
>Things with no factual basis cannot be "known", though.

Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way.

Science is not the only way that you can know facts.

I can know that the colour orange goes well with the colour blue.

I can also know that I had fun playing Mirror's Edge.

>How am I supposed to know that was you?

Because I called the guy a chucklefuck, and the guy I was responding to a buddy.

[Anonymous No.3041295]

LSD documentary, skip to 18:32

"Hardcore" drugs are shitty these days because you have to go through unreliable dealers to get the least pure shit. As shown in the video, when the drugs are given in the right environment, you can solve something without knowing anything about it beforehand

[Anonymous No.3041297]

>>3041295
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJrRBWbtJZ0

[Anonymous No.3041304]

>>3041295
>you can solve something without knowing anything about it beforehand
Seriously, I want you delusional pieces of shit to go the fuck back to /x/.

[Chucklefuck Buddy No.3041306]

>>3041295

Can you provide a link or something, buddy?

[Chucklefuck Buddy No.3041327]

>>3041304

You can solve a puzzle in Donkey Kong without knowing anything about Donkey Kong, you chucklefuck

[Chucklefuck Buddy No.3041331]

>>3041327

*Anything about donkey kong previously, rather.

[Anonymous No.3041334]

>>3040687

...I have a whole fucking yard of those.

Oh boy.

[Grothendieck !Topos4qCwc No.3041345]

>>3041289
Those beliefs have no communicative power, which is why they aren't generally considered as important as traditional 'knowledge' or facts. The concept in question is called 'direction of fit.'

This is why the premium is placed on 3rd person experience in conversation - because conversation pretty much presupposes that we're discussing a common reality. If you want to proclaim the dominance of your subjective mental states then you necessarily preclude meaningful interactions with other minds.

[Anonymous No.3041346]

>>3041304
Watch the part of the video I specifically put in my post for a minute, prick. Then you'll understand what I'm talking about.

[Anonymous No.3041350]

>>3041327
No, that's literally impossible.

There aren't any puzzles in Donkey Kong, by the way.

[Anonymous No.3041367]

OP: It's because DMT is rarely (I'm not even sure if it is) part of a straight solution. It's always synthesized within something else that more people would probably recognize IE: Ayahuasca. And no, before you bring it up, synthesizing crystals is not common knowledge.

[Anonymous No.3041378]

>>3041038
>as a matter of fact, knowing the mass of the electron won't change your life at all.

If you define importance by the amount of impact it has on the life an individual in some ape society in the middle of fuck-all, then I'm sorry, we don't agree what importance means.

>too bad you are you, and you care about yourself, probably more than you care about everything else.

I care about myself as in, I wouldn't like to die. I don't care about myself the same as I care about mathematics, for example, I'm not interested in self-knowledge or enlightenment . It's just not interesting.

>>3041053
>I am sad that you hold this view. I'm going to say that knowing yourself is very important, because you are in fact the conduit with which you interact with the outside world.

Why would that make knowing myself "very important"? I don't define importance in those terms.

>>3041110
>I don't understand how you buddies can think that your personal experiences are unimportant.

I don't understand how can think your experiences ARE important. You are a small pile of thinking nothing. What you do, what you think, who you are are not important or interesting.

[Anonymous No.3041385]

>>3040344
YEAH AND A DEAD STAR WAS MY GRANDFATHER AND THE EARTH IS MY MOTHER WHICH MEANS THE SUN IS MY FATHER? IS THAT WHY I CAN'T LOOK AT HIM IN THE SKY TOO LONG WHILE HE IS NAKED? WWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH

[Chucklefuck Buddy No.3041414]

>>3041345
>Those beliefs have no communicative power

Yes they do. Orange & Blue being complimentary colours means a lot when you consider the context these colours are used in - Most infamously, Movie Posters.

These movie posters catch people's attention by being aesthetically pleasing movie posters, since people associate the pleasing aesthetic of the movie poster with the movie itself, they are more willing to go see the movie.

And the people who make the movies get money.

Similarly, if a movie poster was coloured in MS Paint with ugly colours, no-one would see the movie because of the poster, because it would be a really, really bad movie poster.

>Conversation pretty much presupposes that we're discussing a common reality. If you want to proclaim the dominance of your subjective mental states then you necessarily preclude meaningful interactions with other minds.

Are you trying to say that you don't believe my mind exists? Because at the moment, you're trying to proclaim dominance of your subjective mental state over mine.

This isn't what you're trying to say, because that would be chucklefuckery.

People converse and compare their subjective mental states, and that is that is Empiricism in practise.

[Anonymous No.3041532]

ITT: People who say that they're scientists, but are not actually using science.

>equal turkways

[Anonymous No.3041537]

>>3041532
Be more vague, please.

[Anonymous No.3041569]

>>3041537

There are some things that people are doing here the may or may not be the things they might be trying to do.

[Anonymous No.3041601]

I hate this fucking thread. Look, I think psychedelics are important and potentially useful for people, but I think this is already known by people who have used them. You're not going to convince the geeks on here to do it because they're not adventurous people. They're bookish and boring, despite thinking themselves otherwise.

Stop wasting your time trying to convince people on here. If you want to make a compelling case that this shit should be studied, you should be the one to study it.

[Buddy Chucklefuck No.3041642]

>>3041601

Gotcha.

[Anonymous No.3041646]

>dissing inner knowledge and clarity of mind
>as if all science wasn't appreciated through the mind

[Anonymous No.3041654]

Tried Dmitri last year, it was a hell of an experience. I plan on researching it more in depth later in my career in molecular biology.

[Anonymous No.3041658]

I live in Toronto (CA). Where the fuck can I find some LSD?

I have some deep-seated issues with my current life and where it's heading, during the 24-weekend I'd like to confront them. Besides that, and probably the more actual reason, is simply due to the fact that I am a scientist (alas, not a chemist), and experiencing something as unique as LSD is an interesting prospect.

Thanks.

[Anonymous No.3041666]

>>3041601
>If you want to make a compelling case that this shit should be studied, you should present compelling arguments.
Fix'd

[Anonymous No.3041671]

>>3040436
DMT is piss easy to get, you can order mimosa hostilis root bark online and extract it quite simply.
Also
http://www.erowid.org/ask/ask.php?ID=3146

[Anonymous No.3041678]

>>3041658
LSD can be pretty hard to find these days, if you want to try some psychedelics I'd get into the RC scene.

[Anonymous No.3041681]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayahuasca

If you are interested int his shit, go watch shamans of the amazon. It is fucking brilliant.

[Anonymous No.3041695]

>>3041678
Remote control scene? What?

[Anonymous No.3041696]

>>3041666
>Compelling arguments are arguments that already agree with my opinions.

>Yes sloptorm

[Anonymous No.3041713]

>>3041601
>I've run out of even remotely coherent things to say, so I'm just gonna call you all nerds for rejecting my poorly argued position.
Man, they would love you on /x/.

[Anonymous No.3041716]

>>3041696
Present some, or fuck off.

[Anonymous No.3041719]

>>3041713
> Implying /x/ isn't just /b/ with dead bart.

[Anonymous No.3041721]

>>3041658
prepare to loose sight of everything in your life except the present. In a trip there is no point in a past or future. It is a beautifully scary thing. First tim ei did two tabs (they were strong as all shit) I completely lost my mind for a night... It was magical. remember you will come out of it and ride whatever happens, no matter how intense it is..... Enjoy

[Anonymous No.3041728]

>>3041719
yes, this is /b/ullshit.

[Anonymous No.3041741]

>>3041695
research chemical, basically you can order a fuckton of quasi legal drugs online if you know where to look. Try 25D-NBOMe or 25C-NBOMe if you want something that feels similar to acid.

[Anonymous No.3041800]

>>3041304

I would believe something like that about, maybe, a spacial perception problem, or something involving reasoning, but you ain't spontaneously gaining the equations and constants in quantum mechanics or electromagnetism from taking a hit of anything that isn't active nanotech.

[Anonymous No.3041804]

goddamn, i wanna try this shit with someone really experienced or sober acting as a babysitter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbW53BTtVes&feature=related

[Anonymous No.3042242]

>>3041713
Actually, I'm the guy you're responding to and I'm not OP.

If you want something more "coherent," not that you'll understand it not having taken psychedelics yourself, I have some compelling reasons for you:

1. Psychedelic experiences, while they may be "fake" in the sense that they are produced by something alien to the human body, produce very vivid sensations and thoughts in people. These may take the form of deep introspection and profound inspiration, providing life-changing insights into a person's personality, identity, and cognitive functions. In this sense, they have important implications on a deeply personal level and for people going through traumatic experiences in their lives.

2. They produce disruptions in "normal" cognition and sensation, producing absurd, indescribable images and (more importantly) ideas. If studied on a wide scale, they could have implications for certain basic or specialized functions of the brain, even though the effects they have are very exaggerated compared to the spectrum of emotions, thoughts, and sensations normally experienced.

3. Because most of the well-known hallucinogens seem to act on serotonin receptors, these drugs could be used to model the role of serotonin (and other neurotransmitters) in brain activity beyond that implied in mood and satisfaction.

Coherent enough, you stupid twat?

[Anonymous No.3044656]

I took DMT once and perfectly understood Hagle's book; "The phenomenology of Spirit"

it's the only way to comprehend that shit.