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/sci/ - Science & Math

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3038869 No.3038869 [Reply] [Original]

poison is released in both instances. how is it possible that the cat can survive just because it wasn't being observed?

what?

>> No.3038881
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3038881

you must be new here.
the point is, that you don't know whether it is dead or alive until you open the box.

>> No.3038880

SURE IS COPENHAGEN INTERPRETATION IN HERE

>> No.3038886

>>3038881
EK, stop posting when you're high.

You're even more insufferable for some reason.

>> No.3038888

But the cat's an observer
The experiment itself is flawed

>> No.3038898

>>3038886
but i like to get my fill of science whilst high.
everything seems so much more wonderful and significant.

>> No.3038913

>>3038881
That's actually not the point at all.

>> No.3038920

schrödinger's cat is retarded because it makes ordinary people think QM is magic when the truth is simply that people who talk about it use different logic to understand it

>> No.3038938

>>3038920
QM is pretty fucking "magic" as far as we can tell. Some day, we'll find a way to explain the weird shit that goes on at the quantum level, but all we know right now is that some very non-intuitive things happen all the time, apparently. Schrodinger's cat is a thought experiment that attempts to illustrate that, nothing more.

>> No.3038996

>>3038869
No?
Poison isn't released with a 50% chance. So the chances of death are about 50%.

I only have education on quantum thingys through wikipedia and informatics though.
Is the informatic interpretation of the word "quantum" fundamently different than in physics?

Because in quantum computation it's not about the nondeterministic outcome of killing a cat, but about the fact that the cat can randomly be in a state of death, beeing alive or verious forms of halfdeath. But only one of those states. Pretty inefficient as a random number generator, or way to kill a cat.

>> No.3039015

>>3038996
No, it's released in both instances.

>> No.3039017

Bitches don't know 'bout my decoherence approach.

>> No.3039032
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3039032

>>3038920
>>3038920

>implying QM isn't some crazy shit

>> No.3039040

Look, look, the most important thing about quantum mechanics is the "third possibility", as they call it at my university. Whereas you would have "true" or "false" normally, you can have "true", "false" or "true and false" on quantum level. (Correct term is "a superposition of true and false)

Now, the point of the thought experiment (for Schrödinger) was to actually point out that the copenhagen interpretation gave some really awkward stuff when we create a setup that link quantum level to macroscopic level.

The copenhagen interpretation said something like (i'm no expert at this, but it should be correct) that since we don't know if the atom decays or not, we should consider the atom in a superposition of "decayed" and "not decayed". The geiger meter of whatever inside the box therefore is in a state of superposition of "give a signal" and "don't give a signal", and therefore the status of the box is in a superposition of "poison released" and "poison not released".

The result: the cat is in a superposition of "dead" and "alive".

>> No.3039061

dont worry, accodring to Bohmian mechanics, the cat is always in one state, even when noone is looking at it. So relax, and enjoy your objective, casual, and deterministic (albeit a bit non-local) world :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Broglie–Bohm_theory

>> No.3039070

This whole thread fills my brain with fuck.

Schrodinger's cat is a REFUTATION of the copenhagen interpretation. The point is that the cat can't be both dead and alive, like would occur if all superpositions were actualized simultaneously.

But all this doesn't apply to OP, obviously. Hey faggot, actually read how the damn thought experiment works before posting about it.

>> No.3039094

>>3038938
>>3039032

i was like 10 years old when I figured that superposition shit all by myself, reasoned how it must work and understood it perfectly. later on I learned that QM is basically just that, except that time is also reversible depending on the observing system and that must be taken into account (that I did not know when I was 10)
I am not trying to say I am smart, I am saying you guys are dumb.

>> No.3039097

>>3039040
Even quantum mechanics, being as spooky as people imagine it to be, cannot violate the law of excluded middle.

That's a very poor analogy.

>> No.3039109
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3039109

>>3039094
So the most brilliant minds in the world can't agree on how superpositions work, but you had it all figured out by age 10.

GIVE THIS MAN THE FUCKING NOBEL PRIZE.

And get the fuck off my /sci/.

>> No.3039137

>>3039109
no I am not going to get off your /sci/. whatcha gonna do about it faggot?
just like energy is nothing more than a disruption in a magnetic field, matter is also just a disruption in a material field (which we cannot observe for obvious reasons)
enjoying this?

your so-called "shit existing and not existing at the same time" IS JUST A FUCKING RETARDED WAY OF EXPLAINING IT

>> No.3039150

>>3039137
also,
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon
>In physics, a photon is an elementary particle,

WRONG IN THE VERY FIRST SENTENCE
if this is what you fags acktu-ally believe, why do you have the NECK to call ME retarded?

>> No.3039163

energy ***just*** a disturbance in a magnetic field? WTF are you on about you nutter? Don't trivialise complex concepts. I bet Maxwells eqns make you poo your pants.

>> No.3039170

>>3038938
gonna laugh when that QM explanation is "God did it"

>> No.3039185

>>3039163
NO, it pisses me off when people talk about energy as if it's some kind of wind that blows here and there and suddenly is particles and suddenly waves and nothing matters hurr derp i am a gay boy

>> No.3039188

The cat was fine btw folks.

>> No.3039212

The overwhlmingly simple truth is, Wave particle duality is just that. We have two models which correlate strongly with observation, but ONLY when we have knowledge about the situation to know which model to apply. Hence Energy is neither a particle or wave. Perhaps it's a string, but that theory still needs more playtesting.

>> No.3039223

>>3039185
>>3039150
>>3039137
>>3039109

why are you guys so mad lol. its just science haha, not like its something important

>> No.3039235

>>3039212
it is a disturbance in a magnetic or gravitational field, which causes said field to OWE certain things to the universe
and it will pay even if it has to hack in to a sub computer
that's why we have evolution
one day mankind will learn

>> No.3039255

i am a polytope
you are a polytope
everyone be polytopezZzzzZ

>> No.3039271

>>3039137
>>3039150
Confirmed for pseudo-intellectual hipster faggot.

Wrong on all accounts.
1) Assuming you aren't a full retard and that you meant "electrical energy," it isn't 'just' a disruption in magnetic fields. If you'd taken first semester physics, you'd know that electric fields can produce magnetic fields. They're two parts of the same phenomenon.
2) Matter isn't 'just' a disruption in a "material field," whatever the hell you mean by that. If, by chance, you mean a membrane or a superstring, then sort of, but calling it a disruption is incredibly misleading, as is calling either of those two phenomena a "material field." If you mean anything else by "material field," then you don't know shit about physics.
3) Something "existing and not existing" is not just a way of explaining quantum mechanics. It's what certain schools of theoretical physicists actually believe occurs. And those who don't believe that particles move in all superpositions at once when unobserved wouldn't claim anything like a particle or superpositional entity both existing and not existing, even as a metaphor. That would be fucking retarded.
4) A photon is an elementary particle you raging ignoramus. It doesn't matter if there's still debate over the particle/wave dichotomy. Photons behave as particles do and that's good enough to classify them as such.

Holy fuck.

>> No.3039275

>>3038913
No, actually she is right. QM is only a mathematical way of dealing with uncertainties. Before we found out about randomness, we thought that everything was deterministic.
Different QM interpretations don't mean that the cat isn't actually dead or isn't actually alive, it just means that a certain observer is unaware of which and can model the information in terms of probability.

>> No.3039279

disturbances in fields can spray the heap with a nop slide
and they will do that till the end of the world (WHICH NEVER COMES)
wanna know why
because there is an infinite amount of negative energy in the universe
the amount of positive energy is just denser, which is why the universe is not symmetric
^___________^

>> No.3039286

>>3039271
>material field
holy shit I lold hard at my own text

>> No.3039294

>>3039271
why do you care so much
ignorance is bliss and happiness and hopes and dreaMZZZZZZ :3
be like me, be stupid and proud of it

>> No.3039298

Schrodinger's cat is adleiavde? The hell does that mean?

>> No.3039300

>>3039271
and a phot0n is no fucking particle or wave it is a FUCKING DISTURBING PIECE OF SHIT IN AN ELECKTRO MAGNETICK WOOL FIELD!