/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.3016788]

So, after a century or so in testing, humans come to the conclusion that FTL travel is not feasible. What will be the implications for our species and civilization ?

[Anonymous No.3016801]

We'll be stuck in our solar system?

simple as that.

[Anonymous No.3016818]

>>3016801

well, no

we could travel to other solar system at a snail speed

however it will brake our civilization as it will need few human lives to go from colony to colony

[Anonymous No.3016825]

We wouldn't be able to build an empire, or a coherent state on several world. But we could still colonize.

[Anonymous No.3016827]

>>3016788 FTL not feasible

The ancients did it

[Anonymous No.3016828]

>>3016788

>A century or so..

Lulz at that.... Anyway, give it another century or two (maybe less), science will prevail.

[Anonymous No.3016831]

>>3016828

science is not magic

somethings are just impossible no matter how much research you put in to them

perpetummobile anyone ?

[Anonymous No.3016832]

>>3016818
>we could travel to other solar system at a snail speed

no, we'd be stuck in our solar system. Traveling that slow to somewhere else would be inadvisable and dumb.

If we don't get FTL travel. We won't leave our solar system on a big enough scale of what you are asking.

Yes we may send a ship out with a small crew that possibly can be under cryostasis. But this won't effect the whole species/ civilization.

No FTL=Species stuck in this solar system.

[Anonymous No.3016842]

>>3016832

that could explain why no other space civilizations are detected so far .... well fuck

[Anonymous No.3016851]

>>3016842
or we are the first species to exist.

13 billion years isn't that long to the universe. we very well could be the first species. Especially since evolution this far is rare.

[Anonymous No.3016859]

>>3016832

I am not sure

if we continue to grow, we will face a resource shortage even if that is in a LONG time

so, a million colony ships could be the only salvation

[Anonymous No.3016866]

>>3016851

GLORIOUS !

[Anonymous No.3016876]

>>3016859
if we ran out of resources in this solar system without FTL travel. we would go extinct. Even if we had some form of cryostasis there is no guarantee that we would find another solar system that could sustain us.

You seem hellbent on the fact that we could survive outside our solar system without FTL. why is this? it would take way too much time to get to even the closest solar system, and those don't even have places for us to habitat. we'd have to travel at a snails pace blindly.

The simple fact is that if we don't have FTL travel. We will not leave this solar system on a large scale and survive.

[Anonymous No.3016878]

>>3016876
Well then how much faster than light do we need to go Mr Expert?

1.5c? 2c? Over 9000c?

[Anonymous No.3016880]

It will still be awesome.

If you can already live in space, then going to another solar system is just a long sojourn. If you can already live indefinitely, then going to another solar system is just a part of an interesting life.

[Anonymous No.3016887]

What if we achieve 99.9%c and also create technology to reduce the rate of time (or entropy, whatever) 99.9%. How long then will it take to reach the edge of the solar system?

[Anonymous No.3016890]

Stargates for the win.

[Anonymous No.3016892]

>>3016876
Length contraction, my good man.

It won't take long at all to travel to another star system if our technology gets us remarkably close to c, but relaying information back will be a pain in the ass.

[Anonymous No.3016893]

>>3016876
>habitat

sigh im tired. should've said colonize

[Anonymous No.3016897]

>>3016876

There could be a self sustained ship for long enough time to get anywhere 200-300 years at least, we don't need people to be actually living on it, the genetic material could travel with it, and the first humans to be produced shortly before arrival.

I don't think it is in the human nature to just give up.

[Anonymous No.3016899]

>>3016851

Yeah, but it didn't take us very long from the time we first evolved to generate an advanced civilization. plus or minus 100,000 years is nothing on the scale of 13 billion years. And besides, our entire star system only exists because another star lived and died before our own. So Earth has only existed for 4.5 billion years. There is no way we are first.

[Anonymous No.3016900]

>>3016788

"hat do you mean "not feasible"? It's not possible.

[Anonymous No.3016903]

>>3016831

You're so negative.

[Anonymous No.3016909]

>>3016878
>>3016892
I understand we can still travel fast enough without light speed. But that would only get us to the nearest solar systems, and even then we know what most of the closest solar systems are made of.
Unless we could go faster we would be traveling for a very long time with little to no resources, blindly looking for a new place to inhabit.

Our galaxy is much bigger than people think. and going slower than light speed won't get us very far.

[Anonymous No.3016910]

Our understanding has large gaps, ruling anything out before filling in those gaps is retarded

[Anonymous No.3016913]

Why not jsut build a large space ship with say 20 humans in it and a lot of space for agriculture?

Their energy would be created by the people riding bikes that load up electricity or something similar, also solar panels in case they are close enough to a sun.

They can easily make babbies with the 2suit ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2suit ), which they can teach everything they have to know, then colonize another planet in an almost arbitrary amount of years.

[Anonymous No.3016914]

>>3016910

What gaps?

As far as i know, they are not that large currently.

[Anonymous No.3016916]

>>3016900

hurp durp we could go FTL if we deplete the sun reserves and make everything on board a potato mash in the process

-not feasible-

[Anonymous No.3016922]

>>3016914

They aren't that large. If FTL is possible then the last 100 years of physics is entirely wrong.

[Anonymous No.3016924]

> You will not live to see the first martian colony

> The human race will never develop FTL travel

> No other intelligent specie, if there are, will

> The universe will expand until it completely dies out, nothing will exist anymore

> Our universe is just a sparkle in a cold and dark silence

> We, stucked in our small system, don't even exist at large scale

[Anonymous No.3016929]

>>3016899
I am not saying we are the first. I am just saying we could be.

Here let me explain. We are very lucky. We have Jupiter destroying most of the big asteroids and meteors that fly through our solar system, and then we have the moon protecting us also.

Then we were fortunate enough that the mammals we evolved from did not die out when the dinosaurs did. We are even more fortunate that our early ancestors learned to eat meat and work together which lead to the advancement of our brain.

So many things went right for us that allowed us to evolve like this. The biggest importance is the fact of where earth lies compared to the sun. The point at which a planet has to be compared to the sun is so narrow we are extremely lucky to be in the place we are.

[Anonymous No.3016934]

>>3016916

> pic related

>>3016922

Yeah, which is obviously not the case.

[Anonymous No.3016935]

>>3016913

light bulb powering a solar panel

what could go wrong ?

[Anonymous No.3016937]

>>3016935

> implying i said that

[Anonymous No.3016938]

>>3016929
That is hardly unlikely on a universe scale. All possibilities will happen in the multiverse.

[Anonymous No.3016944]

>>3016938
>multiverse
GTFO

[Anonymous No.3016945]

>>3016922
Well, it is wrong if you manage to break light speed with a big engine and by going faster and faster. There may be a way to circle the problem. And if you say "no", you are being irrationnal. No one knows.

[Anonymous No.3016950]

>>3016929

The odds of you being born were essentially 0. First humanity had to rise up from the primordial ooze, then every single human had to interact in such a fashion that your parents' parents' parents' etc.. produced your parents, who then mated, and produced you through the freak chance of one of a billion sperm hitting on of millions of the eggs your mother produced in her life.

You were not the first human, however.

[Anonymous No.3016951]

>>3016938
Once again i was not pointing that out as to say there aren't other species. I am pointing it out because even on the scale of the universe the amount of things that need to happen or could happen for a species to evolve to our current position or further. is still extremely rare.

Just think about this. Raptors were considered to be smarter than dolphins at the peak of their existence. They ate meat like our early ancestors, and they worked in groups and communicated. But they were denied time to evolve because of their extinction. Just think of what could've happened if they didn't go extinct?

We were fortunate to not go extinct and allowed time to evolve, on top of all the other rare requirements to even allow life to exist.

I am not saying we are the first, or there aren't any other species. I am just trying to point out how the circumstances needed for an advanced civilization no matter how big a universe are extremely rare.

[Anonymous No.3016959]

>>3016914
>>3016922

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsolved_problems_in_physics

>Implying we should still be working with aether because it was around for hundreds of years

[Anonymous No.3016964]

>>3016951

I don't think it's good science to talk about how rare or not rare life, or intelligent life, is at this point in our understanding. We haven't seen enough worlds and conclusively determined whether they harbor life. We don't even know that we're the only life in the solar system. Our sample size is basically one.

[Anonymous No.3016966]

>>3016950
Nigger you dont understand.

A loooooong time has to pass just for elements like carbon and iron to form.

And unless you think life can survive on pure hydrogen and helium

[Anonymous No.3016975]

>>3016959

If you want to have your pipe dreams that's fine. But to compare the insanely rigorous and overwhelmingly supported scientific consensus with the half-baked natural philosophy of centuries past is disingenuous at best. We don't know everything, but there are a few matters that have been convincingly put to rest. Traveling faster than c is one of them.

[Anonymous No.3016979]

>>3016959

If you can put them on a list, it is not that much to do.

I don't think there'll be a gigantic leap forward like last century, when QM and GR were developed (at the same goddamn time, how awesome is that?), although there might of course easily be a new revolution regarding our concepts of physical reality.

[Anonymous No.3016997]

>>3016964
You have a very good point. Everything i said could be a common occurrence in every galaxy.
We could be 1 of a trillion or more advanced civilizations that span the whole universe. We can never know. But from our understanding these occurrences are rare. Just like our understanding of time is short.

[Anonymous No.3017022]

ITT: People who don't understand Drake's equation(outside of fags who give completely unrealistic numbers).

Their's intelligent life in our own galaxy.

[Anonymous No.3017027]

>>3016979
Those are just known unknowns, if a unifying theory is ever made we have no idea what weird things may be allowable

>>3016975

>Only look for things you want to find
>Call anything that disagrees with you an anomaly or mechanical error
>Holy confirmation bias batman

[Anonymous No.3017031]

>>3017022
>Their's intelligent life in our own galaxy.
>implying we have proven intelligent life exists on this planet

[Anonymous No.3017044]

As long as some kind of suspended animation is possible then close to light speed is fast enough to start exploring the galaxy. Humanity would just be fractured into hundreds of isolated groups.

Still lots of problems to work out obviously. Fuel is a big one. Durability, with ships and equipment needing to last thousands of years, or at least able to be replaced mid-flight. Communication would be slow and unreliable. The ships would probably need to be huge, hundreds of meters on a side at least.

But hey, it's possible.

[Anonymous No.3017065]

I heard that if you could warp space-time around you or the object, you could essentially be still, yet your surroundings would be traveling at mach speed, possibly FTL.

I 1nder what the interweb would be like if there was a galactic wide web or even a universal wide web.

Teleportation will definitely be possible in the next century.

[Anonymous No.3017071]

>>3017022

> Their's

Probably not on earth.

[Anonymous No.3017074]

>>3017031

no,

> implying we have a valid definition of what "intelligence" means

[Anonymous No.3017078]

I wonder what would happen if you were able to survive entry into a black hole or a worm hole.

We will probably be able to create gate ways to other dimensions in the near future.

[Anonymous No.3017080]

>>3017065

Only more porn i guess.

Also, have fun with your exotic matter with negative mass etc..

[Anonymous No.3017089]

>>3017065

oh my god, could you imagine /b/ with a userbase of a trillion people.

exabytes of cp getting posted every second

[Anonymous No.3017092]

>>3016788
it's simple. we do nlst. you see, human life can be expanded through digitization of mind or by genetic modifications. and relativistic effects further fasten travel. and when passenger are immortal 100 years are very short price to get to another solar system.

[Anonymous No.3017094]

>>3017089

FBI would totally hire me then. They'd need a lot of people.

[Anonymous No.3017115]

> So, after a century or so in testing, humans come to the conclusion that FTL travel is not feasible. What will be the implications for our species and civilization ?
If that does happen and we have our shit together (we're testing FTL travel so I'm guessing we do) it's really just about sending 1000's in huge colony ships to planets with enough supplies to start terraform, we may never become a Starwars like empire but if we want to we could easily colonize many many systems in the distant future

[Anonymous No.3017144]

Bitches don't know 'bout my wormholes.

Also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive

[Anonymous No.3017151]

>>3017115
This. Each system would have a tech base of its own and it's own style. There really couldn't be a central government of any efficacy even with FTL communication like (say for example) quantum entanglement. With enough time, you'd start to notice some strange distances if you happen to own a fast enough ship and "stasis pod" of some kind. You'd see human systems or planets at all levels. You'll find systems constantly engaged in intra-system war, North Korea like crazy systems, systems run by a corporate police state, theocracies, systems or planets that somehow lost their tech and reverted to barbarism, utopian posthuman systems, feudal systems, etc. It'd actually be a pretty damn interesting place. I could easily see traders zooming about in stasis in their .99c ships from place to place hauling goods valuable enough to merit their getting lugged around at relativistic speeds. The Archduke of planet whatever would be buying weapons that the posthuman archilects of a (relatively) neighboring systems find trite and adorable. These super advanced entities from the neighboring system, however, are willing to trade super high tech for fungal samples from the backwater feudal world because knowledge is what they value most.

You'll find attempts at expansionism or imperialism that inevitably decay or fail. You'll even see some cultural exchange or influence (albeit somewhat delayed thanks to travel time) between relatively nearby systems. Exotic clothing from the Duchy of Orion III will trade for a nanotech battlesuit from New Prussia... that kind of thing.

[Anonymous No.3017161]

>>3017151
That kind of trading would be risky as fuck (assuming no real time comms). Say the archduke of New New Old New Old Olde England (barbarians) wants laser guns from the posthumans in the next system (which you told them about). When you get back from buying the lasers it turns out the duke has evolved into a giant tree, and is tended by rabbits the size of horses (evolution). So now you have 50000000 glactic credits worth of lasguns and only a tree to sell them to.

I hope you like roasted rabbit.

[Anonymous No.3017192]

>>3017161

in a system like this (and this is all just ridiculous fantasy anyway) there's no unified currency and the trader obviously isn't motivated by profit, but by exploration.

[Anonymous No.3017195]

>>3017161
Yeah, we're not crossing the entire galaxy here, I'm talking distances of MAYBE 300 light years tops.
Depending on the criteria or cultures that send out the colony ships, you could start to see some truly fascinating things. Imagine our solar system in the distant future where the cost of an interstellar ship of reasonable size is about the same relative cost as a commercial freighter or 747 is today. You'd find all kinds of "special interest" groups sending out colony ships. Depending on how things turn out, you might find ethnic colonies. New Hibernia is dominated by the ancient druid religion and society is composed along clan lines. The Caledonian Confederation of Free Clans is a system dominated by kilted descendants of the Scots. Their kilts cause problems in zero-g, but they're perversely proud of it. Old Sean Connery movies (stored on the colony ship's digital library) have become sacred scripture.
Visit a feudal world one time 300 years ago and discover upon your return that they're in the midst of a full blown renaissance.
Visit the QuatroChanos system and find the main planet inhabited by sexual deviants with a flea's attention span, but the /Scientia/ orbital habitat is a posthuman utopia... filled with super-intelligent minds snickering about how their engineers all like to take data uploads in the wrong port.

[Anonymous No.3017198]

>>3017195
>engineers all like to take data uploads in the wrong port

FUND IT

[Anonymous No.3017206]

>>3017192
Yup. The traders would be nomads with no real home. However, their ships would be museums of humanity in all its forms and fashions. It'd be a once in a lifetime thing (for some worlds) to have a ship in orbit. People take trips to the ship to witness the awesome collection of artifacts, technology, history, biology, etc. The traders ultimately only need fuel, so their true motivation is really just knowledge and adventure. They don't live a "normal" life and their only companionship is with other crew, but they're rewarded with the opportunity to see countless lifeforms, cultures, philosophies, etc.

[Anonymous No.3017230]

>>3017144

> implying that hasn't been refuted
here >>3017080

[Anonymous No.3017233]

>>3016788

Humans cannot survive in space long term.

We suffer from lack of gravity and any colonisation effort would be made hideously complex by trying to take a viable biosphere along with it.

It's far more likely that humans will travel to other solar systems as frozen genetic material (designed to be grown by robots when they arrive at destination) or as cybornetic/uploaded beings.

The long time it takes to travel is irrelevant if the ship is crewed by non organic intelligences.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3017238]

>mfw people are so ignorant they think FTL travel is the only way to reach the stars in a lifetime

Pellegrino up of in this bitch.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3017241]

>>3017238

...For propulsion purposes, microfusion bursts triggered by antihydrogen-hydrogen annihilation (possibly with a component of lithium added) will prove efficient up to ship-cruising speeds approaching twelve percent the speed of light, owing to jets of relatively slow, massive particles. Above twelve percent lightspeed, propulsion shifts from antimatter-triggered fusion jets to straightforward matter-antimatter annihilation, which produces a lower mass thrust than fusion, but provides particles with the high-exhaust velocities necessary to push the ship to a high fraction of lightspeed.

How much antimatter might be needed for a trip to Alpha Centauri - assuming that Asimov Arrays or something very much like them will eventually provide humanity with the excess energy required for its large-scale production? We have estimated that the fuel stores (both antimatter and matter combined) might be equal to roughly half the mass of the rest of the spacecraft, or about one hundred tons (to assure "burning" of all available antimatter, an as-yet-undetermined excess of matter will be required).

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3017244]

Others have been more pessimistic, including an earlier study by space scientists Donald Goldsmith and Tobias Owen which yielded an estimate that a journey to Alpha Centauri would require four hundred million tons of matter-antimatter fuel. Such estimates arise from assumptions that the spacecraft will be huge, with powerful engines mounted in the rear. Everything forwards of the engines becomes, in essence, a massive, rocketlike tower, requiring enormous amounts of shielding from the rocket's gamma ray shine, supplemented by complex (and massive) cooling systems to shed intercepted engine heat (and a traditional rocket configuration must absorb most of the head-depositing gamma rays, even if they do, like X rays, have a tendency to pass through things). The addition of each layer of shielding and cooling equipment placed on top of the engine becomes increasingly prohibitive as ship mass increases, requiring higher burn rates, which in turn requires more cooling and shielding, which increases ship mass and burn rates, and so on.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3017249]

With our elongated, two-crew-member ship on a string, gamma shine and heat are spilled directly into the unfillable sink of outer space. A pulling rather than a pushing engine eliminates most of the structural girders that would not only, by their mere existence, add unwarranted mass, but would multiply that mass many times over by their need for shields and coolers. Valkyrie, in effect, is a fuel-efficient, twenty-first-century version of today's "ultralight" aircraft...

...Since antimatter and matter annihilate each other on contact, releasing enormous bursts of energy from literally microscopic amounts of propellant, you cannot simply fill a shuttle tank with liquid antihydrogen and let it slosh around inside.

The only storage method that has a hope of working is solid antihydrogen, supercooled within one degree of absolute zero (within one Kelvin of -273 degrees C). At this temperature, antihydrogen condenses into "white flake," with an extremely low evaporation rate.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3017252]

Particles of solid antihydrogen will be suspended and held away from the "pod" walls, probably by electrostatic forces and/or magnetism. According to our latest models, near 0.0005° K, antihydrogen should be sufficiently stable as to allow, in the form of matter-antimatter micropellets or wafers (we are presently working to determine which design, layered pellets or wafers, will provide optimal thrust). With one-fifty thousandth of a degree Kelvin, matter-antimatter storage becomes thinkable because wave functions do not overlap enough to produce an appreciable reaction, at least in principle.

(And in practice?)

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3017257]

We do not know. It has not been practiced yet, and can only be verified by experimentation. Personally, carrying matter-antimatter pellets already assembled, even at 0.0005° K, gives me nightmares. I keep seeing a cosmic ray particle stopping at the matter-antimatter interface, giving off its heat, and triggering a horrible chain reaction... Jim says we can prevent that, but I am still opting for storing our antihydrogen in complete isolation from matter until virtually the moment it is needed. I am reminded of that scene from the movie version of 2010, in which Roy Scheider describes the aerobraking maneuver his ship is about to make through Jupiter's atmosphere. "It's dynamite on paper," he says. "Of course, the people who came up with the numbers on paper aren't here."...

...Upon warming, electrons and positrons self-annihilate to produce small bursts of gamma rays which, in terms of thrust, can be totally ignored. The positrons are there simply for stability's sake. The proton-antiproton pair, however, produce three varieties of elementary particles called pi-mesons...

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3017270]

...The charged pions and muons are the particles we want and when not being used below twelve percent lightspeed to immediately trigger fusion explosions (a matter of simply modifying the type of pellet or flake used), we want to simply bounce the pions off the outermost fringes of the engine's magnetic field, and thus steal whatever thrust they have to contribute, before a significant fraction of them have traveled twenty-one meters and shed part of their energy as useless neutrinos. The engine we have designed ejects pions and muons (and, at lower velocities, pion- and muon-triggered fusion products) along a diverging magnetic field nozzle to produce thrust, in much the same fashion as hot, expanding gases in a conventional rocket impact against the solid wall or pusher plate at the back of the ship, propelling the entire assembly forwards. Since the pions and muons are acting only against a magnetic field, they can propel the Valkyrie without ablating or wearing down the engine walls (as does space shuttle propellant, with the result that the engines must be rebuilt after every flight, and eventually thrown away). However, gamma rays emitted by the decay of neutral pions will knock atoms out of position in structures near the antimatter reaction zones, making the material stronger, yet brittle.

[Anonymous No.3017272]

>>3017206

brb writing a novel about a bored kid who stows away on one of these ships

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3017273]

One solution is to add structures called shadow shields wherever practical. (Shadow shields are nifty little devices already being used in certain very advanced nuclear reactors. They are a major component of Valkyrie, so stay with me and I will get around to describing them in just a few moments.) Another, supplemental solution is to weave most structures residing within four kilometers of the reaction zone from hundreds of filaments, and to send electric currents through the filaments, heating them, one at a time, to several hundred degrees below their melting point. Gamma ray displacements in the wires are thus rearranged, and the atoms can reestablish their normal positions. (ed. note: this is called "In-Site Annealing")

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3017276]

There appears to be nothing we can do to prevent the occasional transmutation of atoms into other elements. Fly far enough with your engines burning at full throttle, and your ship will turn slowly into gold, plus lithium arsenic, chlorine, and a lot of other elements that were not aboard when you left. These new substances will be concentrated around the antimatter reaction zone, and it is important to note that advanced composite materials already coming into existence dictate that our Valkyrie, even at this early design stage, will be built mostly from organic and ceramic materials, rather than from metals. It is conceivable that expanding knowledge of composites can be taken into account by the time relativistic flight becomes a reality, so that the ship actually incorporates the transmuted elements into its filaments in a manner that ultimately results in structural improvements for a ship designed to essentially rebuild itself as it flies. Exploiting what at first glance seems to be a disadvantage (transmutation) is simply a matter of anticipating the "disadvantage" before you begin to build. It's the disadvantages unforeseen or unaddressed that will get you in the end.

[Anonymous No.3017277]

OP:

Shit sucks because not only are we limited to lightspeeed, but we can't even attain high lightspeed for manned craft because of the extreme radiation caused by striking interstellar particles at high relativistic speeds. Anything > .4C is going to be totally unworkable, and even that is pushing it for a human crew. When you get to super high speeds, even hardened electronics might start getting fried by it.

Then again, this is also relieving because it means that we probably don't have to worry about RKVs.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3017279]

The gamma ray flare from the engine dictates other major features of ship design. In particular, it has caused us to turn rocketry literally inside out.

Riding an antimatter rocket is like riding a giant death-ray bomb. An unshielded man standing a hundred kilometers away from the engine will receive a lethal dose of gamma radiation within microseconds. In designing spacecraft, even when considering propellant as efficient as antimatter, RULE NUMBER ONE is to keep the mass of the ship as low as possible. Even an added gram means extra fuel.

Here's how we can shave off many tons of shielding.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3017282]

Put the engine up front and carry the crew compartment ten kilometers behind the engine, on the end of a tether. Let the engine pull the ship along, much like a motorboat pulling a water skier, and let the distance between the gamma ray source and the crew compartment, as the rays stream out in every direction, provide part of the gamma ray protection - with almost no weight penalty at all. (ed. note: this should remind you of "Helios") We can easily direct the pion/muon thrust around the tether and its supporting structures, and we can strap a tiny block of (let's say) tungsten to the tether, about one hundred meters behind the engine. Gamma rays are attenuated by a factor of ten for every two centimeters of tungsten they pass through. Therefore, a block of tungsten twenty centimeters deep will reduce the gamma dose to anything behind it by a factor of ten to the tenth power (1010). An important shielding advantage provided by a ten-kilometer-long tether is that, by locating the tungsten shield one hundred times closer to the engine than the crew, the diameter of the shield need be only one-hundredth the diameter of the gamma ray shadow you want to cast over and around the crew compartment. The weight of the shielding system then becomes trivial.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3017290]

The tether system requires that the elements of the ship must be designed to climb "up" and "down" the lines, somewhat like elevators on tracks.

We can even locate the hydrogen between the tungsten shadow shield and the antihydrogen, to provide even more shielding for both the crew and the antihydrogen.

There is an irony involved in this configuration. Our "inside-out" rocket, the most highly evolved rocket yet conceived, is nothing new. We have simply come full circle and rediscovered Robert Goddard's original rocket configuration: with engines ahead of the fuel tanks and the fuel tanks ahead of the payload. Nor is the engine itself an entirely new creation. It guides and focuses jets of subatomic particles the same way the tool of choice among most microbiologists guides streams of electrons through magnetic lenses. Valkyrie, in essence, is little more than a glorified electron microscope.

[Anonymous No.3017293]

>>3017272
If it's good, give a shout-out to "anon" in the acknowledgements. I'll contact your publisher and we can meet. I'd love to write science fiction but I'm too "big picture" oriented to really create the effective characters that are so necessary for good reading.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3017295]

In addition to shielding against gamma shine and avoiding the absorption of engine heat, another major design consideration is shielding against interstellar dust grains. Flying through space at significant fractions of lightspeed is like looking through the barrel of a super particle collider. Even an isolated proton has a sting, and grains of sand begin to look like torpedoes. Judging from what is presently known about the nature of interstellar space, such torpedoes will certainly be encountered, perhaps as frequently as once a day. Add to this the fact that as energy from the matter-antimatter reaction zone (particularly gamma radiation) shines through the tungsten shields and other ship components, the heat it deposits must be ejected.

Jim Powell and I have a system that can perform both services (particle shielding and heat shedding), at least during the acceleration and coast phases of flight. We can dump intercepted engine heat into a fluid (chiefly organic material with metallic inclusions) and throw streams of hot droplets out ahead of the ship. The droplets radiate their heat load into space before the ship accelerates into and recaptures them in magnetic funnels for eventual reuse. These same heat-shedding droplets can ionize most of the atoms they encounter by stripping off their electrons. The rocket itself then shuts the resulting shower of charged particles - protons and electrons - off to either side of its magnetic field, much the same as when a boat's prow pushes aside water.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3017303]

The power generated by occasional dust grains should range from the equivalent of rifle shots to (rarely) small bombs. These detonate in the shield, harmlessly, far ahead of the ship. Fortunately, almost all of the interstellar particles likely to be encountered are fewer than 20 microns across (10,000 microns = 1 centimeter), and we should expect no more than one impact per day per square meter of Valkyrie's flight path profile...
...One of the great advantages of a droplet shield is that it is constantly renewing itself. Put a dent in it, and the cavity is immediately filled by outrushing spray.
If a dust grain passes into the shield, many of the shield's droplets are bound to be exploded. Some of the scattered droplet fluid will be absorbed and recovered by surrounding droplets, but some fluid is bound to be hurled out of the droplet stream, which means that we must add the weight of droplets to be replaced to the ship's initial mass.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3017305]

In addition to spare droplet fluid, our preliminary design calls for a spare engine. Both engines will be located at opposite ends of the tether. The forward engine pulls the ship along during the acceleration phase of flight. It also fires during the cruise phase, but only at one-hundredth thousandth of a gravity, keeping the tether taut and permitting recapture of forward flying droplets. At the end of the cruise phase, the rear engine kicks in for deceleration (as we cannot simply swing a ten-kilometer-long ship broadside to relativistic bombardment in order to turn the engine around and fire in reverse).

In normal use, the rear engine is turned on only to decelerate the ship, or to maneuver the crew compartment into the center of the forward engine's gamma ray shadow. Nudging the crew compartment, from behind, to one side or the other will be necessary during major course changes, because the crew compartment, much like a water skier, cannot turn simultaneously with the motor that pulls it and might otherwise drift out of the protective shadow. A spare engine also provides some insurance against the chilling possibility of irreparable damage to the leading engine or, worse, a break in the tether. In the former case, identical engine parts could be ferried up and down the tether and exchanged as necessary. In the latter, depending upon where the break occurs, with careful rearrangement of the ship's components along the tether, the remaining coil can be safely used to finish the outbound leg of the mission.

[Anonymous No.3017306]

>>3017277
You're assuming the RKV is not inert. Slinging a chunk of concrete at 40% c is going to seriously fuck something up.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3017310]

At the end of the cruise phase, with nearly half of the ship's fuel exhausted, empty fuel tanks can be ground up into ultrafine dust, for dumping overboard (we see no reason to expend extra energy decelerating tons of equipment, no longer in use, which can easily be remanufactured and replaced at the destination solar system). At up to ninety-two percent the speed of light, the dust will fly ahead of the decelerating ship, exploding interstellar particles and clearing a temporary path (trajectories must be such that the relativistic dust will fly out of the galaxy without passing near stars and detonating in the atmospheres of planets). This fist of relativistic dust is the first line of defense against particles encountered during final approach. With the rear engine firing into the direction of flight, droplet shields will be come useful only for expelling heat from the rear engine, for along the tether, "up" has now become "down," and droplets can only be sprayed "up" behind the engine, where, traveling at uniform speed, they will fall back upon the decelerating ship. To shield against particles ahead of the ship, ultrathin "umbrellas" made of organic polymers similar to Mylar and stacked thousands of layers deep are lowered into the direction of flight. This is the second line of defense - against particles moving into the ever-lengthening space between the ship and the fist. The umbrellas will behave much like the droplet shield and, in like fashion, they will be designed with rapid self-repair in mind. Throughout the ship, repair and restructuring will be assisted (where such repair abilities as self-annealing filaments are not already built into ship components) by small, mouselike robots capable of climbing up and down tethers and rigging.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3017314]

END OF PELLEGRINO DUMP

[Anonymous No.3017331]

>implying FTL is impossible
>mfw

wormholes bitches

[Anonymous No.3017349]

>>3017306
It can't be inert and expect to hit a target because unpredictable interstellar drift will occur (thanks to random distribution of interstellar gasses impacting the thing being lobbed). Over the lightyears this will result in significant course corrections becoming necessary.

[Anonymous No.3017350]

>>3017331

> implying a wormhole makes you ftl
> implying wormholes exist

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3017352]

>>3017349

Add to that the difficulty of verniering a craft at relativistic velocity.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3017415]

bump

[Anonymous No.3017440]

Having not found a way to exceed the speed of light in vacuum, we can come to only one possible conclusion: we have not found a way to exceed the speed of light in vacuum.

tl;dr: keep trying bitches, the prize is worth it. Even in lottery, someone wins sometime.

[Anonymous No.3017459]

We will expand and occupy the entire solar system. I'm perfectly fine with that. It will be like our continents today. That's enough.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3017504]

>>3017459
ONLY the solar system?

[Anonymous No.3017516]

>>3017440

> space of light in vacuum

implying it is different in nonvacuum?

[Anonymous No.3017520]

>>3017516
photons get slowed down when traveling through a medium because it takes time for them to be absorbed and re emitted by other particles.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3017524]

>>3017504

Don't worry Inurdaes.

<span class="math">{\itWe have time.}[/spoiler]

[Anonymous No.3017529]

reading this thread made me realize what a bunch of uneducated unimaginative unread bunch of idiots /sci/ is.
FTL is not possible OH NO. IF ONLY WE COULD SLOW DOWN TIME WHEN GOING REALLY FAST SO THAT WE COULD COVER LARGE DISTANCES IN A HUMAN LIFE SPAN.
time dilation. you fucking heard of it bitch? it just happens to be the CONSEQUENCE of the fact that c is the fastest possible speed in the universe.
these are each viable ideas i came up with off the top of my head im sure there are dozens more.

arttificial intelligence - lets robots run the ship then make humans when they get there
extending the human life span - the only reason cells die is because they are programmed to. death can be circumvented with enough resources. this is not science fiction.
cryogenic freezing/stasis - well this is just obvious set the ship to autopilot and wake me when you get there
generation ships - with current technology if the whole world put in the effort this is possible today.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3017530]

>>3017504

Don't worry Inurdaes.

<span class="math">{\em We have time.}[/spoiler]

[Anonymous No.3017535]

>>3017520

> photons get slowed down when traveling through a medium

no

They sometimes still teach you this in schools, but it is not true. Light is always light-speed fast.

You think it takes a longer time through a medium because it interacts with the atoms inside of it (absorption, emission etc.). When a photon is absorbed, it takes some time for it to get emitted again, that's why there's time missing.

Between these interactions it is still traveling at the speed of light.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3017539]

>>3017504

Don't worry Inurdaes.

<span class="math">{\it We have time.}[/spoiler]

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3017541]

>>3017539

[Anonymous No.3017548]

>>3017535
can i trouble you for a short explanation of diffraction?

[Anonymous No.3017551]

>>3016910
/thread

[Anonymous No.3017554]

>>3017529

How does time dilation help?

Are you implying time _actually_ slows down for you if you have a high velocity relative to something?

> lets robots run the ship then make humans when they get there

How can robots make humans? There was an experiment where they tried raising two children without anyone near them, they were completely alone. They gave them food and everything that was vital, but no love.

Both of them died.

> death can be circumvented with enough resources

Yes, but death is important for adaption and, most importantly, a healthy society. How will you prevent these bad effects?

[Anonymous No.3017558]

>>3017548

Sure, what do you like? Quantum physical explanation or is a wave explanation enough?

[Anonymous No.3017571]

>>3017558
i was just always told the change in the speed of the light caused the change in direction - wave explanation would be enough for me

[Anonymous No.3017597]

>>3017571

In that case you'd have to get rid of imagining light as photons.

What happens is that the phase velocity (not the group velocity, which is, so to speak, the speed of a photon) of the wave changes, which basically means its wavelength increases(or decreases), while its frequency stays the same. This causes a change in direction.

The reason for why this happens is that light interacts with the electrons (i wrote bullshit in one of my other posts, it interacts with the electrons, not the atoms of the matter in question), which can only really be explained via quantum mechanics and would require more text to be written.

[Anonymous No.3017614]

>>3017554
that is such bs there was probably something wrong with the babies, we need to try that experiment with a much larger range of test subjects

[Anonymous No.3017631]

>>3017554
>Are you implying time _actually_ slows down for you if you have a high velocity relative to something?

um... yes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation#Time_dilation_and_space_flight
might want to read through the whole page since you clearly dont understand it.
TL;DR: the faster you go the slower time goes. actually. for real. its experinemtally proven.

>How can robots make humans? There was an experiment where they tried raising two children ... but no love.

again you prove to me how unimaginative you are i said AI as in artificial intelligence. an AI robot could be trained in every way to be human like to a child. the child could even thinks its parents are human there is no way to ever know. your parents could be fuckin AI robots alright?

>Yes, but death is important for adaption and, most importantly, a healthy society. How will you prevent these bad effects?

how do you know that? first off humans dont need to adapt the old fashioned way fucking survival of the fittest. we will be able to genetically engineer ourselves into anything we want. secondly how do you know death is vital to a well running society? thirdly if you want them to die so bad just keep them alive long enough to colonize the planet then they can die if they want.

[Anonymous No.3017635]

>>3017614

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospitalism

[Anonymous No.3017656]

>>3017631

> um... yes.

Then you are probably retarded. I quote:

> the ship's clock [...] shows less elapsed time than the clocks of observers on Earth

This means your time appears to slow down to an outside observer on earth, but you will observe the same for them.
What you observe for yourself is that time passes by completely normally, like it does right now.

> since you clearly dont understand it.
Please fuck off and die, since i'm a physicist.

> TL;DR: the faster you go the slower time goes. actually. for real. its experinemtally proven.

tl;dr: you understand it completely wrong.

> your parents could be fuckin AI robots alright?

I think you also have a massive understanding of the difference between a robot AI and a real human being. Are you sad sometimes?

> how do you know that?

Common sense.

> humans dont need to adapt the old fashioned way fucking survival of the fittest

Maybe here, but on other planets? Please...

> we will be able to genetically engineer ourselves into anything we want

implying we can do it better than nature, that is. This will most probably not happen.

> how do you know death is vital to a well running society?

Now it is your turn to use your imagination. What would happen if we got extremely old? Just imagine. I think you will get it.

> if you want them to die so bad

Where did i say that?

Let me guess... high school?

[Anonymous No.3017669]

>>3017656

*massive MISunderstanding

fix'd

[Anonymous No.3017676]

>>3017656

>a constant 1 g acceleration would permit humans to travel as far as light has been able to travel since the big bang (some 13.7 billion light years) in one human lifetime. The space travellers could return to Earth billions of years in the future...

>A more likely use of this effect would be to enable humans to travel to nearby stars without spending their entire lives aboard the ship. However, any such application of time dilation during Interstellar travel would require the use of some new, advanced method of propulsion

so what was your PHD thesis on?

>Common sense.

solid scientific evidence. side note did you know heavier things fall faster then light things? source -> common sense.

>Now it is your turn to use your imagination. What would happen if we got extremely old? Just imagine. I think you will get it.

nothing because all my organs including my brain are replaceable?

[Anonymous No.3017678]

>>3016959
>Strong CP problem
In other words, /b/.

[Anonymous No.3017685]

>>3017676

> a constant 1 g acceleration
> acceleration

> The space travellers could return to Earth billions of years in the future

This does not in any case state that time slows down for you.

> so what was your PHD thesis on?

Fixed point quantum gravity

> solid scientific evidence.

So logic isn't enough? You should try it one time.

> side note did you know heavier things fall faster then light things? source -> common sense.

That's not common sense, because 1. i can prove you wrong easily, 2. you didn't deduce anything logically, you just made a statement and said it's true. That's not how logic works, you know?

> all my organs including my brain are replaceable?

Now i think you're simply trolling.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3017691]

>>3017685

>This does not in any case state that time slows down for you.

Of course it doesn't. They feel time going just the same. It's from the point of view of an outside observer that they are slowed down.

Still it allows for relativistic flight to the stars within the lifetime of the passengers.

[Anonymous No.3017696]

>>3017691

> They feel time going just the same.

Yeah, that's kinda like what i said the whole time.

> Still it allows for relativistic flight to the stars within the lifetime of the passengers.

Never said that was wrong.

I don't see how your post makes sense as an answer to mine.

[Anonymous No.3017699]

>>3017696
it was supplementary to your post, the other guy is a fag

[Anonymous No.3017701]

>>3017699

Oh ok, sorry i got that wrong.

Thanks bro.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3017705]

>>3017696

Someone was arguing nonsense so I just jumped in in a void attempt to stop this and return to the subject of glorious spaceflight.

[Anonymous No.3017706]

A) new technology
>stupid roman, only birds can fly!
B)Robots

C)humans turned into AIs

D) giant fucking spaceship

E) bigger fucking spaceship
>I am looking at you mars.

[Anonymous No.3017712]

>>3017685
>acceleration
>acceleration
yes i understand acceleration. the point i think we might be disagreeing on is yes i understand time always passes at the same rate for you my point originally was you could travel large distances in a human lifetime.

>That's not common sense, because 1. i can prove you wrong easily, 2. you didn't deduce anything logically, you just made a statement and said it's true. That's not how logic works, you know?

how did you deduce anything? you said death is vitally important to a well functioning society and cited common sense? i call bullshit. prove me wrong easily. use logic to deduce something.

now on the brain being replaceable which is what i assume is your issue. it would be possible simply by doing small parts of the brain at a time.

[Anonymous No.3017713]

>>3017685
>>3017696
OK Dr. Brains:

The 1g acceleration is to ensure that nobody on the ship is liquefied. This was an arbitrary assignment and is not related to the conclusion.

You apply this acceleration long enough and you can get going pretty fast--relativistically. This of course means that if you spend one human lifetime traveling around and exploring, you'll return to see that the sun has gone red giant and annihilated Earth.

The point is that a man can live to travel to distant galaxies. You just have to kiss everybody goodbye.

[Anonymous No.3017722]

>>3017713
yes thank you

[Anonymous No.3017729]

>>3017712

> i understand time always passes at the same rate for you

Fine, because that's what you claimed at first.

> how did you deduce anything?

Yeah, i was a bit lazy, and i still am now. If people were biologically immortal, who would rule the world? Old people with old concepts. They would make up the majority of a population sooner or later. The only way to change something is to murder someone.
I have read a very nice article on this issue, the social implications are pretty well-researched, i can't seem to find it right now.

> it would be possible simply by doing small parts of the brain at a time.

I don't think so.

See? My point is as valid as yours.

>>3017713

Why do you call me Dr.Brains?

Why do you even post that? I never argued against any of that.

[Anonymous No.3017732]

>>3017722

What for? He didn't help you in any way.

[Anonymous No.3017750]

1. Colonize Solar System
2. Build space colonies and mine asteroid belt
3. Seed exoplants with primitive life forms
4. Conclude that it is not humanity but life itself that must spread.

[Anonymous No.3017756]

>>3017750

> mfw that's how life on earth started

[Anonymous No.3017759]

>>3017729
honestly i dont see how you were confused. i was talking about colonization of distant solar systems and cited time dilation as a feasible mechanism. i apologize if i had poor wording.

again sure maybe there are social problems with people living forever but as a solution to getting people to distant solar systems if it is the only option it doable. also it was more of an example by extremes as even if we could get people to live say 500 years it would obviously greatly facilitate the task.

and finally on brain replacement imagine if we could engineer on a single cellular basis. as in if one cell in your brain dies you can replace it with a new one. if you lose one brain cell it will hardly change you in the least. sure perhaps by the time you got to your destination you might have an entirely new brain and be a totally different person but so what? youre becoming a new person with every passing second and most importantly you are still human. who cares who it is who arrives?

[Anonymous No.3017761]

>>3017713

lol way to discredit someone

> cannot discuss
> call him names

[Anonymous No.3017801]

>>3017759

Ok, let's just put that one to rest.

> magine if we could engineer on a single cellular basis

We still haven't found out how exactly the "hive-mechanism" (don't know the exact word for it) works. The brain is not just the sum of its cellular parts, they interact with each other in a strange and complex way. I guess it is possible that we will eventually find out how this works, but it might also be the case we weren't made to understand that.

Just think of an anthill. It is like a complex organism when you view it as a whole, but when you "zoom in", you see little ants unaware of what the whole colony "wants".
The brain seems to work similarly, with neurons firing in patterns and forms instead of just a single shot to communicate. None of the neurons is really aware of what happens next to it, but somehow everything works together.
Neurons contain information of neighbouring cells by the way as a backup-service. That's why some people who lost half a brain can still live.

[Anonymous No.3017840]

>>3017801
yes i know it is complex and its more about connections rather then base structure. I still contend though obviously this is pure conjecture if you were to replace one at a time you will still have a functioning human on the other end. Though to think of one problem would be all the cells in a region dieing too quickly or all at once. to prevent this you would have to preemptively replace cells which are still healthy for a while so that the new one can make connections and get established before his neighbors died. depending on the volatility of the lifespan of brain cells you may have to begin this process long before 'old age'.

[Anonymous No.3017845]

Generation ships to distant star systems.

[Anonymous No.3017892]

>>3017750
>Conclude that it is not humanity but life itself that must spread.

[Anonymous No.3018028]

Greetings, programs! Together we have achieved a great many things. We have created a vast, complex system. We've maintained it, we've improved it. We've rid it of its imperfection. Not to mention, rid it of the false deity who sought to enslave us! Kevin Flynn!! Where are you now?! My fellow programs, let there be no doubt that our world is a cage. No more. For at this moment, the key to the next frontier is finally in our possession! And unlike our selfish creator who reserved the privilege of our world only for himself, I will make their world open and available to all of us. Yes, to all of us! And whatever we find there, our system will grow. Our system will blossom! Do this, prove yourself to me, be loyal to me, and I will never betray you! - Maximize efficiency, rid the new world of its imperfection! My vision is clear, fellow programs. Out there is a new world! Out there is our victory! Out there... is our destiny.

This entire thread.

[Anonymous No.3018040]

It me we're not going to become an interstellar civilization until we create another form of life. We are fleshbags that evolved naturally on this sweet spot world, we're not cut out for space.

Space dwelling life will have to be designed.

[Anonymous No.3018134]

>>3018040
Pic related.

[Anonymous No.3018143]

>>3018040

Probably right.

Mammals are basically spacesuits for fish.

If humans go to the stars we'll go as cybernetic organisms.

[Anonymous No.3018157]

>>3016788
>>3016788
>>3016788

Nah, we'll just discover immortality first.

[Anonymous No.3018160]

>>3017554
>They gave them food and everything that was vital, but no love.

>Both of them died.

that is most definitely the dumbest thing i've read in quiet some time

[Anonymous No.3018167]

>>3016788
>FTL is possible
>In the matrix

[Anonymous No.3018215]

>>3017554

Idiotic. If that experiment even happened, did they try to make robots that simulate love? I mean basically, make something warm and fuzzy with social abilities at least on par with Kismet, rudimentary speech ability, and something that sounds like breathing + a heartbeat.

[Anonymous No.3018219]

>>3018160
Truth is stranger than fiction, bitch.
>>3017635

[Anonymous No.3018225]

>>3018215
Yes, actually.

Monkey babies would rather stick to a fuzzy, warm "mother" made of cloth, etc, than a spiky mother than gives them food.

[Anonymous No.3018229]

>>3018215
The experiment he refers to seems to be the work of René Spitz back in the 40s-50s, since this is the only thing I can find on Hospitalism.
So the argument falls flat. It's not been tested with AI.

[Anonymous No.3018231]

>>3018167

Actually no.
The the reason physics disallows FTL travel is to make it easier to parallelize the computers doing the simulation. With an upper limit to speed, each simulator only needs to communicate with it's direct neighbors.

[Anonymous No.3018238]

>>3018225
Close. They won't refuse the food from the spiky mother.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Harlow#Surrogate_mother_experiment

[Anonymous No.3018241]

Fuck FTL.

Quantum tunneling all up in this bitch.

[Anonymous No.3018244]

>>3018229
So, what are you arguing here?

The main point of contention seems to be whether human babies can survive without social/emotional care. I.e., food and water and shelter isn't enough.

[Anonymous No.3018246]

>>3018241
>quantum tunneling macroscopic objects between star systems
Sure, if you've got an infinite improbability drive.

[Anonymous No.3018249]

>>3018244
And I'm saying all those things, or at least the illusions of such, if necessary could be provided with technology.

[Anonymous No.3018252]

>>3018225

Showing a preference against the spiky monkey mom with food doesn't prove all artificial monkey moms with food need to be spiky, it just wasn't part of the experiment to have one that was both soft and food-providing. If we were to specifically engineer something to be a good artificial parent, it'd be fuzzy milk bottles all around.

[Anonymous No.3018256]

>>3018231
stfu, in the matrix FTL is possible

Now, go back and understand wtf is going on.

A simulation does not need to be perfect to entrain the brain.

[Anonymous No.3018261]

>>3018249
Agreed. And if you have true AI, then you don't have to worry about companionship as much.

[Anonymous No.3018263]

>>3018256
>in the matrix FTL is possible
what

[Anonymous No.3018264]

>>3018246
Who's to say I don't have a bistromathics drive?

[Anonymous No.3018267]

>>3018264
You're posting on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.3018271]

>>3018252
Fair enough.

And the spiky-mother-only monkeys didn't die. They just had diahrrea more often (they were stressed).

[Anonymous No.3018293]

>>3018261
Yes, so we agree in contending the original point.
Provided that we can engineer some acceptable illusion of maternal care, travel outside the solar system facilitated by auto-pilot and the creation of humans from genetic matter towards the end of the journey isn't impossible... given that the creation of humans from genetic matter is mastered.

>>3018267
>>3018264
status: told

[Anonymous No.3018317]

>>3018267

[Anonymous No.3018879]

>>3018231
I DONT THINK YOU UNDERSTAND

PHYSICAL SPACE DOES NOT EXIST IN THE MATRIX.

>fail

[Anonymous No.3018887]

>>3018263
LISTEN DIPSHIT, VIRTUAL REALITY DOESNT NEED PHYSICAL REALITY

[Anonymous No.3019794]

>>3017554
>How can robots make humans? There was an experiment where they tried raising two children without anyone near them, they were completely alone. They gave them food and everything that was vital, but no love.
Sauce plz

[Anonymous No.3019866]

>>3016832
At near-light speed, a traveling ship would experience a length contraction of the distance it is traveling. At certain speeds, 50 light years can be traversed in, say, two years for the people on the ship. For everyone else, though, it would take more than 50 years for them to get there.

[Anonymous No.3020286]

>>3019866
>wave magic wand
>near C travel speed accomplished

[Anonymous No.3020357]

Wormholes, my gentry negro. Via mass manipulation of course. (I dunno how you would be able to manipulate the higgs-boson but I'm sure there's a way).

[Anonymous No.3020389]

>>3020357
Jesus, my gentry jews.

[Anonymous No.3020413]

>>3020286
That's not the point. I was explaining that we don't need FTL travel to colonize distant worlds. We only need near-light travel, which is significantly more possible.

[Anonymous No.3020437]

>>3020413
Right, we don't need Jesus, we just need the anti-christ.

[Anonymous No.3020468]

>>3016924
counter:
>you will live to see the first martian colony, and perhaps long enough to be cyberized and extend your life even further

>we will develop FTL, but it'll be through some clever loophole in a rule that we aren't aware of yet

>other intelligent species have, there are as many races as there are people on earth

>expansion of the universe is inevitable, but it's not for a very long time, and the united intelligences can make good use of the time we have left

>indeed we are a speck, but there's so much to accomplish out there, so much to understand. In the grand scheme of things, our significance might be minor, but we will make the best of it

>we can and will expand far beyond our little corner of the galaxy, and not as vastly disconnected colonies, but as a united front.

[Anonymous No.3020485]

>>3020437
But the fact remains, the person I was responding to was flat-out Wrong when he said:

>No FTL=Species stuck in this solar system

[Anonymous No.3020560]

>>3017022
0/10

Holy shit, you fail trolls are getting worse and worse.

[Anonymous No.3020582]

The implications are we suck too much to make wormholes. We don't have nearly the energy required to hold a stable wormhole and even if we did... We would have to deal with deadly radiation.

The laws of physics don't allow in this space for information to travel faster then a certain limit but this doesn't mean we're out of options. However we aren't even close to being able to going to another star system yet. Sorry to burst your bubbles.

[Anonymous No.3020649]

>>3018160
>>3018160
>>3018160

lol

[Anonymous No.3020883]

ha

[Anonymous No.3021134]

We're definitely not stuck in the solar system. That's the #1 misunderstanding about relativity. There is no limit to how quickly you can get to a given destination. The only limit is that, as seen from earth, you will never appear to be going faster than c. But your rapidity from your own perspective is a different issue.

From earth's perspective, a traveler will never get to Andromeda sooner than 2 million years, but for the traveler, a constant 1g acceleration will get him there in about 20 years.