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2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/sci/ - Science & Math

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3007410 No.3007410 [Reply] [Original]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/may/06/av-over-yes-campaign-routed

>Yfw you realised that to do anything progressive and good for humanity we need to raise the populations IQ at least ten points.

>> No.3007412

"the biggest argument against democracy is a 5 minute discussion with the average voter."

-W. Churchill

>> No.3007416

Hurr AV would have changed the world man.

>> No.3007421

>>3007410
no but seriously how many people actually realised that there is no down side to the new voting system. That it will be more likely to give them the style of politics they want. Godammit I hate conservatism.

>> No.3007431

>>3007410
>They don't agree with me
>Therefore, stupid

>> No.3007440
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3007440

>>3007416
A microscopic babystep, seriously conservatism world wide is cancerous to human development. With higher IQ better decisions will be made becase 70% of the population will be able to see what is actually rationally in their interest. Worldwide.

>> No.3007450
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3007450

>>3007431
Hurr durr AV worse than fptp

>> No.3007464

but AV is worse than the current system, and also not even close to PR. Everybody with half a brain (I.e., not you) hates it, even the lib dems. They only supported it because it's the only way they can save themselves from the inevitable annihilation at the next election.

Calling people who don't vote the way you want stupid shows what a fuck up you are, and is fairly typical of your average rabid libdem faggot fanboy, amongst whom the defining viewpoint appears to be that all other political parties should be disbanded and the lib dems should rule unquestioned forever.

The other thing that works against you is the relatively small turnout, because
1. If people cared about voting, they'd vote
2. The only people who turned out cared, and had probably studied the issue. People aren't mindless voting automatons over here. Well, lefty student types excluded, of course.

Tl;dr: lol you butthurt loser u mad

>> No.3007478

lol you guys think that there is such a thing as democracy

>> No.3007479
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3007479

>>3007464
no u

>> No.3007487

AV is worse than FPTP. Neither is any good, but AV is slightly worse. It's like choosing to carry on being forced to eat the free shit pie in front of you, or paying extra to eat another shit pie, which has maggots in.

This referendum should never have happened. It's been a total waste of money from start to finish and is just plane stupid. If you honestly thought AV would change anything then you either haven't actually been thinking for yourself, or are suffering a mental illness.

>> No.3007492

>lol u guys lol hurr lol u guys lol hurr lol u guys
Sure is /new/ in here.

>> No.3007508

>mfw people blaming this all on conservatism
Nothing to do with conservatism. Everything to do with people being dumb and believing any old shit that a campaign tells them.

>>3007464
>Calling people who don't vote the way you want stupid shows what a fuck up you are
Try talking to people who are actively opposed to AV. You will notice that they tend to be fucking retarded. Occasionally there is a person who isn't, but on the whole it is dipshits who go "hurr BNP" nonstop.

>>3007487
no u

>> No.3007532

I don't understand why people say AV is worse. It looks like it would undermine flaws of the two party system.

>> No.3007530

>No: 70%
>raise population IQ ten points
>No: 80%

>> No.3007542

>>3007487
>Democracy costs money, we shouldn't have it.

>> No.3007552

The UK should deport everyone who voted yes to the middle of the ocean. Their bodies would add nutrients to the ecosystem, and they'd finally achieve something positive with their existence.

>> No.3007562
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3007562

Lol butthurt conservatards in itt

>> No.3007564
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3007564

Sup guys

>> No.3007568

AV gets rid of one man, one vote, It is worse than FPTP. PR is the way forward.

>> No.3007574

>>3007532
Everything has flaws, the question is do you want a single party to be able to go all in, or to be more inclusive at the cost of decisiveness.

>> No.3007575

>>3007568
uh no, your vote only ends up counting once.

>> No.3007582

>>3007568
>AV gets rid of one man, one vote
lol, no. Next you'll tell me runoff elections are a threat to democracy.

>> No.3007580

>>3007562
>70% victory in favour of Conservative desired result
>Butthurt conservatives

wat

>> No.3007583
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3007583

>>3007580
ITT pseudointellectuals

>> No.3007584

>>3007568
>AV gets rid of one man, one vote

Please see:
>>3007508
>Try talking to people who are actively opposed to AV. You will notice that they tend to be fucking retarded.

>> No.3007595

>>3007487
>>3007464
I like the way you don't (can't) actually explain why it's worse

>> No.3007601

I dunno about the UK but AV might be good for the US. That way people who want, for example, Nader to be president can actually vote for him instead of just pussying out and preventing a R president.

People are stupid and therefore cowardly, nothing will change this. If anything, the world is getting dumber. Perhaps taking steps to account for this stupidity will do more good than forever trying to provide education to those who are neither capable of nor willing to receive it.

>> No.3007614

>>3007601
would you calm down?

We'll all be dead soon anyways

>> No.3007623
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3007623

Fixed that for you.

>> No.3007626

>>3007614

AintEvenMad.jpg

>> No.3007642

>>3007626
really? cause whenever I call the majority of humanity retarded I'm usually mad

>> No.3007649
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3007649

Whoever was right or wrong , raising the IQ is definitely extremely necessary for human progression.

>> No.3007661

wtf is progress?

will you be satisfied with our progress after the nukes fly?

>> No.3007668

>>3007575

My third vote should not be worth as much as your first.

>> No.3007679

>>3007661
2/10
troll.

>> No.3007680
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3007680

>>3007583
ftfy

>> No.3007683

>yfw you realize you could accomplish this by killing people who didn't look white or east asian

>> No.3007700

OP,

>yfw when you realised that to get a progressive debate that is good for humanity on /sci/ you need to raise the IQ of most of the board at least 9000 points.

>> No.3007709
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3007709

>>3007683
Yfw you need to be killed. No we do IQ raising by genetic engineering and medical advances. Liberal eugenics.

>> No.3007711

Canadafag here. I have no idea what the hell you guys are talking about.

>> No.3007737

>>3007711

>yfw we have FPTP and you don't even know it because you're just some faggot kid who just finished his first year of philosophy and probably voted NDP a few days ago.

>> No.3007735

How do you guys feel about democracy?

Greatest thing ever, or not greatest thing ever?

>> No.3007732

>>3007711
I'd suggest that you investigate no further, in case the monumental retardation that was exhibited in this country in the last few weeks somehow spreads to yours.

>> No.3007744
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3007744

>>3007732

It didn't.

>mfw Canada got it right for once and just elected a Conservative majority.

>> No.3007754

>>3007711
>>3007737
>>3007744
your country sucks

>> No.3007757

I read about a TV program/poll thing that went on in Canada.

It was a large project to find out who was the Canadian's favorite Canadian. I dont remember the guys name, but he was a famous politician. He was their president and he made their famous single payer health care system. It was supposed to be like a "you say our system sucks, but actually we love it" kind of statement.

So they did the same thing in America and they found Ronald Reagan was America's favorite American. I thought that was funny

"Healthcare rules." - Liberal Canadians
"Nuh-uh" -mericans

>> No.3007760

>>3007642
>my empirical observations are derived purely from emotion.

ftfy

>> No.3007762

>>3007421
There would have been a downside, all parties would have inevitably moved even futher to the middle ground and away from there core support, and parliament wouldn't be any more representative.

>> No.3007765

>>3007735
Autocracy is best. The problem is that we keep getting the wrong autocrat.

>> No.3007768

>>3007757

It was Tommy Douglas and we actually have a parliamentary system so he was the Prime Minister. :)

>> No.3007772

>>3007762
[citation needed]

>> No.3007791

>>3007772
Why, it follows from fairly simple logic. In an AV system a party has most to gain from being most people's 2nd and 3rd choice, so they'll move to the most moderate possible position.

>> No.3007797

>>3007768
> Tommy Douglas Prime Minister
notsureifretardortrolling.png

>> No.3007796

>>3007595
I can, but there's no point arguing with people who hold religious beliefs. I just don't have any energy left to argue with people who will say things that are factually incorrect.

>> No.3007821

>>3007421
>it will be more likely to give them the style of politics they want
>implying people don't know what they want

that's just one of many steps on the road to authoritarianism. "the people don't know what's good for them, they need me to tell them how to live"

av was resoundingly rejected because it's an overcomplicated piece of shit that would trap governments in coalitions and centrist politics, preventing any form of progress and encouraging italy-style stagnation.

a different system might be better but the best way to make a real difference would be to keep a fptp commons and create a true separation between executive and legislative, having a cabinet elected by the people according to whatever system could deliver a representative cabinet with experts in the right positions

>> No.3007830

>>3007797
Have you ever talked to any of your fellow citizens?

If you had then you would know that we know nothing and don't care that we know nothing

>> No.3007839

>>3007791
If we're playing silly buggers with wild theories unsupported by evidence, then I'd say that it would clearly be balanced out by people being able to express their true preferences once the system no longer mandates tactical voting.

If, however, we're being rational about the issue, I'd say that people's preferences are being more democratically represented, and change in party policy that results is just indication of the will of the people.

>> No.3007860

>>3007821
>overcomplicated
I hate people who say this, the AV system is pretty fucking simple. And I voted no as well.

>> No.3007867

>>3007839
ruling according to the will of the people is a pathetic trend that results from increasing use of media experts and spin doctors to formulate policy. politicians should be attempting to set the agenda and not just follow the whims of the population - that's why paedophilia is not a capital crime, or indeed why we don't have capital punishment.

politicians should put forth their principles and attempt to win us over by proving themselves in the testing ground of public debate, not attach themselves to principles that test well and do well in polls.

they should represent us, of course, but the mere existence of the political system is a bald admission that we do not always know best, that we will not always want the right things and we will not always have the greatest ideas.

>> No.3007868

I voted no. Three times. And just because you have a high IQ doesn't mean you have to be a liberal douche. I voted no because I enjoy winding up LibDems

>> No.3007870

>>3007860
>simple

"pretty simple" and "needlessly overcomplicated" are not mutually exclusive.

>> No.3007875
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3007875

>my face when i spoiled my ballot by ranking my preferences

>> No.3007874

You guys hear about the royal wedding?

But seriously, the AV vote was only ever going to be a no with the huge turnout of 11 people to it as well


Also I hope scotland does break off from the uk, I'd give them 2 weeks before they became a 3rd world country on their own

>> No.3007888

>>3007875

Whoa you canadian's rank preferences on your ballots?

>> No.3007891

>>3007874
Yeah, specially as England has done a pretty good job of using up all the North Sea oil before they came up with the idea of independence. It will be funny to see charity adverts displaying starving scots

>> No.3007901

>>3007891
Because the Socts even know how to oil

With No industry and the tourist attraction of a farting goat I don't know how they expect to stay afloat (especially when we drag back every penny the rest of the UK has invested in that 'soggy shit stain of a Provence' -Julius Caesar)

>> No.3008023

AV gives voters the freedom to vote how they want to, even when it's unlikely their first choice will win. With AV, once it's become clear that your chosen party won't win you still have a say in who will ultimately represent you in government. This would embolden many people to cast their first vote for parties other then the Tories or Labour now that doing so isn't akin to throwing away ones vote. Naturally neither the Conservative party or Labour like this prospect, they dominate parliament and they don't want that to change.

>> No.3008046

I voted Tory and no

U mad?
U mad

>> No.3008053
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3008053

>>3008046
No, u mad, psychologically. But u a 2/10 troll

>> No.3008057

>>3007487

>It's like choosing to carry on being forced to eat the free shit pie

I fucking lol'd

>> No.3008058

>>3008046

Is it not Hip to vote liberals anymore?

Guess all those students doing it to be cool regretted it

>> No.3008059

>>3007888
Most Canadians do not vote

>> No.3008074

>>3008053

Not a troll, I actually voted this way. Fucking hate labour

>> No.3008084
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3008084

>>3008074

>> No.3008095

I spoiled my vote.
Don't want AV, don't want the goverment to say 'well this means nobody wants change'.

>> No.3008098

>>3008074
The sad thing is they're going to get in after the conservatives

People will forget about the whole running the economy into the ground, Iraq war and erosion of civil liberties thing by the last Labour government because everyone will think the conservatives are evil for trying to fix it

>> No.3008117

>>3008098

I know that's what makes me rage

>> No.3008120

>>3008098
Because the conservatives are doing such a good job at the minute right?

Oh wait

>> No.3008124

>>3008120

They are actually yes

>> No.3008135

>>3008124

Hows it feel to work against your own interests and actively destroy my future?

I wish I could find and kill people like you

>> No.3008157

>>3008135


>Hows it feel to work against your own interests

They don't

>and actively destroy my future?

I don't know you, therefore I can't give a fuck about your future


The only reason we are in this mess is because of Labour

>> No.3008485

This thread is why I don't like the party system.