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/sci/ - Science & Math

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3002084 No.3002084 [Reply] [Original]

What's the point of dying /sci/? There seems no need for it.

>> No.3002094
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3002094

>>3002084

>> No.3002154

To make life more meaningful.

>> No.3002160

>>3002084
avoid crowding and death

>> No.3002164
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3002164

>> No.3002168

Makes reproduction have a point.

>> No.3002173
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3002173

BECAUSE GOD IS IN HIS HEAVEN
AND ALL IS RIGHT WITH THE WORLD

>> No.3002181

>>3002168
Nope, try again.

>> No.3002208

There's no selective pressure working to make complete and total immortality of the individual a necessity for any organisms.

>> No.3002213

if we didn't need to die we woulden't need to reproduce.

you can't have one with the other, if you want to be born you've got to die.

>> No.3002217

>>3002084
Your question implies there is a point to living.

Rejecting such an implication, your question seems invalid.

>> No.3002220

there is an immortal jellyfish.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turritopsis_nutricula

>> No.3002237

>>3002220

Potentially.

>> No.3002264

>>3002237
I think it's better to just call them some type of zombies. Someone edit the article.

Potential immortality is inaccurate and doesn't correctly encyclopedia what these jellyfish really are.

>> No.3002273

living has no benefit to survival.

>> No.3002276

So if your not born you cant die?
Cesarean section FTW.

>> No.3002294

survival of the least inadequate

>> No.3002337

>>3002154
I think the people who need death to give life meaning probably live sad, sad lives.

>> No.3002355
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3002355

Now you're getting it!

http://www.ted.com/talks/aubrey_de_grey_says_we_can_avoid_aging.html

>> No.3002356

Evolution

>> No.3002380
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3002380

>>3002355
dat beard...

>> No.3002474

if nothing died there would be no reproduction

if nothing reproduced there would be no evolution

if nothing evolved we would all be fucked!

>> No.3002491

>>3002474
you are right!
you must kill yourself right now for the good of humanity!

>> No.3002489
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3002489

>>3002474
We will control our own evolution.

>> No.3002507

>>3002489
You won't control evolution because you view science as something akin to magic, instead of asking "what can we do with this" you declare "THIS MUST BE ABLE TO DO THIS BECAUSE IT WOULD BE A NICE THING IF WE COULD DO THIS, JUST LIKE THAT STAR TREK EPISODE WHERE SPOK SHOVED A CARROT INTO HIS...".

>> No.3002521
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3002521

>>3002507
I hate Star Trek. I am acquainted with the methods of science and how it progresses. Fuck off.

>> No.3002549

>>3002337
No, they're realistic, idiot. Contrast is the essence of life. Without death, there would be no meaning for life. You only get one shot at it, so you had better make the most of your time. Whereas, if you had numberless years ahead of you, there would be no urgency to do anything, because you would have a lazy infinity to do it in. Life would be agony.

>> No.3002560
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3002560

>>3002549
For me, the meaning of life is that I will die and this is precious because of that, but rather that the life itself is precious. if you're living a lazy agony then go ahead and kill yourself. I'll be sipping some nice wine on a balcony in the cliff city built into the side of Valles Marineris.

>> No.3002564

there is selection pressure against mating with older organisms, simply by the nature of genetics and meiosis

thus there is no selection pressure for dying

what is the mechanism? from an evolutionary standpoint its antagonistic pleiotropy (i.e. same gene for fertility is same gene for dying)

biologically or physically what are the mechanisms? probably starts with telomeres

>> No.3002565
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3002565

>>3002560
*is not that I will die

>> No.3002570

>>3002564
>thus there is no selection pressure for dying
mean't not dying*

>> No.3002598

if i have 10 people that can live forever(can't die from disease ) and reproduce i have over population and eventual starvation.

if i have 10 people who can live forever (can't die from disease) but can't reproduce they'll die from accidents i.g. fall off a cliff or slice your head off.

if i have 10 people that can't die from anything i.g. superman you have some sort of demigods which are impossible.

if i have 10 people that can die from disease and normal shit and can reproduce then you have a stable population.

>> No.3002614

>>3002598
If i have 10 people that can live forever(can't die from disease ) and extremely limited reproduction to only replace those that have died with accidents we have a stable population

And this is discounting space colonization in any form

>> No.3002639

>>3002614
yeah but alot of people want to have kids no matter what. jut look at mexicans and niggers

>> No.3002682

>>3002598
The solution is simple. Enforce sterility in most or all of the population, and use artificial wombs to maintain a controlled, easily-modified growth rate.

>> No.3002720
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3002720

If we were immortal or practically immortal we would stagnate as a society.

Just look at the Time Lords.

>> No.3002723

>but rather that the life itself is precious.
But this is the same thing and what I implied when I mentioned contrast. Why is the life precious? Because the alternative is nonlife - death. So you cherish your brief existence.

>> No.3002731

>>3002639
If they want the treatment, they get sterilized. Simple as that.
If they want kids, they forgo the treatment.

>> No.3002735

>>3002723
To me a short life is a helluva lot less precious than a abnormally long life.

>> No.3002759
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3002759

>>3002489
That's a really cool looking picture. I'm going into a field thats an essential part of reaching singularity, hopefully its just achieved in my lifetime...

It's unsettling to think about my death and picturing myself standing over my cold, dead body.

>> No.3002770

>>3002720
>>3002720
>using a fictional tv show as an example of what will happen.

You do realize how ludicrous you look right now, right?

>> No.3002793

>>3002759
artist's name is adonihs I believe

>> No.3002798
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3002798

>>3002770

>> No.3002815
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3002815

>>3002798
>mfw

>> No.3002889

>>3002213
To go along with this, death can be considered as the cut-off point for an organism's consumption of chemical and chemical potential energy. In order for a community or population of organisms to sustain a relatively level concentration of chemical energy, a consistent part of it has to be eaten or undergo death other manners. If this distribution of chemical energy significantly deviates in any way, the community or population will be forced to change phenotype and/or behavior, go extinct, or move elsewhere.

>> No.3003425

Evolution is extremely selfish and evil.

we must destroy it and be the controllers of our own new evolution.

>> No.3003432

>>3002549
fuck you, masochist or sadist (EVILution is both).

>> No.3003471

>>3003425

Technically humanity has already surpassed natural selection at large.

>> No.3003477

>>3003471
But EVILution has made us selfish and negative and all sorts of things that will make us extinct.

all because of EVILution's selfishness and evilness.

>> No.3003493

I don't think death is selected for, so much as that immortality isn't. Animals die all the time in a state of nature, and the mechanisms that will preserve its life beyond a certain point in good condition tend not to be selected for. It's better by far in evolutionary terms to select for genes that are helpful in getting animals to maturity and breeding than it is to select for overall longevity.

In short, evolution doesn't give a shit about you; just that you fuck and pass on your DNA. You can't do that, you're a dead end.

If you want a purpose for it, that's a philosophical question. Nothing has value beyond what we place upon it. Me, personally, I hate death. Every time we lose someone, we lose a lifetime of experience and potential. Death diminishes the world, and only grants power to those who would use human suffering as a means to gain power. A world without death is one where humans have no choice but to work within the restrictions of society, and can't rely on living fast and retiring in comfort; where people must think long term.

Death is pointless. Let's get it cured and move on as a species.

>> No.3003500

Because Eve ate the fruit of knowledge

Oh and it helps prevent overpopulation, even though it seems like it isn't helping much now since people apparently fuck like rabbits nowadays.

>> No.3003510

>>3003493
>evolution doesn't give a shit about you; just that you fuck and pass on your DNA

I choose a celibate lifestyle, suck my dick natural selection

>> No.3003533

>>3003510

Now, realize what you just said, and know that there are idiots breeding all the time. Natural selection may be sucking your dick, but she's getting plowed by others. You are spit-roasting natural selection with idiots.

... Damn, that's the oddest analogy I've ever made.

>> No.3003541

Cleaning the gene pool. The old versions are deprecated and need to go away.

>> No.3003557

why are you guying talking as if evolution is an actually being with an opinion?

>> No.3003567

>>3003557

Because the English language is inadequate for describing in strong terms the effects of a natural law.

>> No.3003650

>>3003557
Best way to talk about our rage towards EVILution.

>> No.3003660

There is no point to dying. Since most of us would prefer to go on living, it stands to reason we should try to prevent the cessation thereof. The attachment that some people show toward death quite baffles me and that in the most basic, fundamental way - I literally cannot imagine any reason for it at all.

>> No.3003695

Just watch. As the world population increases, worse and more devastating events will take place. Larger amount of people will die at once to natural disasters and man made events.

Do whatever the hell you want. Life keeps balance itself. Keep reproducing. Keep making babies. Just see what happens.

>> No.3003758

>>3003695
Who said anything about reproducing? You seem to be embarking on some kind of insane rant like all the rest of the doom-sayers.

>Larger amount of people will die at once to natural disasters and man made events.

Oh, well, that's a really insightful statement. Imagine: if there are more people in the world, more people will die! Surprise!

Contrary to popular belief, negativity does not by itself impart wisdom to an outlook.

>> No.3003767

thermodynamics
contrary to popular belief, humans are animals and are part of nature
/thread

>> No.3003775

>>3002084
If we didn't die, we wouldn't evolve

>> No.3003780

>>3003695
LIES. THE SINGULARITY WILL SAVE US.

>or jesus, whoever. Just let me believe in peace.

>> No.3003790

>>3003767
Wow, a post consisting entirely of irrelevancies and thought-terminating clichés.

>> No.3003805

>>3003758
On one hand you claim it seems insane or negative, but at the same time make it seem so self-evident. Surprise!

Who's who?

>> No.3003824

>>3003805
The post seems insane because it comes out of nowhere without any prompting, contains some unimpressive tautologies made to seem profound and overall projects the negative view that some kind of collapse is looming. There was nothing inconsistent in my appraisal.

>> No.3003830

You know those really good movies that are only really good because of that unpredictable twist at the end that no one could have saw coming? Acknowledge, recall, for a second those feelings when the final door is opened, when all truth is revealed, when the protagonist is really an antagonist, or little Stephy's baby is not really dead, or all along it was the nosy neighbor Jimmy next door who was responsible for that 2 car accident in the middle of the musical montage.

Death is like that. The best plot twist ever that no one would have ever seen coming.

>> No.3003842
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3003842

>>3003775

hombre de poca fe.

>> No.3003843

>>3003824
How do I fix that?

>> No.3003867

>>3003830

You don't provide anything to connect your analogy to the subject at issue.

You know those sausages that are really tasty but the caraway seeds get stuck in your teeth? Death is like that. The best sausage ever but seasoned with caraway seeds.

>> No.3003868

>>3002084


...and the need for living is?

>> No.3003889

>>3003767
fuck nature and its EVILution.

we will no longer be part of nature, we will break free. if we can't do this, we will become extinct and end up blowing up the earth (and solar system for good measure).

>> No.3003902

>>3003867
I believe that is some kind of phalic logic you have there.

>> No.3004738
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3004738

>>3003868
Life came about through the pressure of energy dissipation.
We are here because biological systems work best at making energy dissipate (in our space time.) Life and death make up a dynamic system of change which is good for energy dissipation due to the system changing. a static system would not find the best path way to energy loss in our universe.
good night /sci/

>> No.3004798

>>3004738
tl;dr life is just a fluke

>> No.3004823
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3004823

'EVILution'

>> No.3004829

>>3002084

You need death for adaptation and for a healthy society.

>> No.3004834

sauc on OPs comic?

i ask this every time i see it and never remember

>> No.3004838

> implying avoiding aging is the same as being immortal

>> No.3004850

>>3004834
Yang Young-Soon he's a korean guy
http://booru.nanochan.org/post/list/asaekkiga/1
Don't know if this is the original source, it probably isn't but there are pretty good collection of them.

>> No.3004856

>>3002084
actually there are some lower animals/fungi/lower plant that reproduce asexually and live as multicellular pseudo-organisms which means they are essentially immortal.

death is not really a point in itself as all species strive for survival ultimately. death of a single organism in animal is just a part of adaptation.

>> No.3004976

well replying to most of replies - reproducing does clean up the species, but if one could live forever, the knowledge learned would be much greater than evolution could improve the human in a long long time

>> No.3005018

Because of constant exposure to radiation fucks you up brah.

>> No.3006087

>>3004976
But no other animal learns like we do, we're freaks. Also, this is the reason that animals have instincts, responses to danger that are more powerful than those that are learned, and that parents teach their young what is dangerous and what isn't in the specific environment they are in. The ability to adapt over time physically, with these additions, is stronger than the ability to retain a greater amount of knowledge, for any species other than ours (and quite possibly for ours also).