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/sci/ - Science & Math

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2997796 No.2997796 [Reply] [Original]

Do you think it is true?

>> No.2997803

Probably.

>> No.2997812

Most likely, but i want to some kind of evidence at least.

>> No.2997825

If you think Osama isn't dead, you have to accept that Osama must be connected to the U.S. government in some way. It's illogical to think that Obama is lying while simultaneously thinking that Osama acts independently of the U.S. government since, if he does, he would simply release another video of him being all like "yo what's up i'm still here" and there'd be a massive shit storm.

Are you prepared to state that Osama is also connected to the U.S. government as well?

>> No.2997821

Of course it's not true. The government was involved. Plus, the government is full of liberals. So that's scientific proof that the whole thing was fake.

>> No.2997813

tweets reported helicopters in that region during the attack.
Multiple US officials have claimed to have seen the photographs.
Conspiracy is very unlikely

>> No.2997820

Its true because if it wasn't Osama could just pop up again with a video or something. The alternative is that he never existed in the first place.

>> No.2997840

I don't think the government will pull something after what they realized Wikileaks is capable of.

>> No.2997844

>>2997820
some people say he died in 2001. (i dont think he's produced vids since then) but then again, osama would rather people think he was dead so they would stop looking for him. So maybe that's why he doesn't produce videos anymore.

>> No.2997853

THERE IS NO AMOUNT OF PROOF THAT WILL SATISFY THE CONSPIRACY LUNATICS OF THIS COUNTRY

WHENEVER YOU SATISFY ONE OF THEIR RIDICULOUSLY HIGH STATUS QUO BIASES, THEY WILL SHIFT THE GOAL POSTS AND DEMAND MORE EVIDENCE

THIS THREAD IS DOOMED TO FAIL AND IT IS POINTLESS

YES I MAD

>> No.2997862

Im skeptical because he has been thought to be dead for a long fucking time.

He basically hasnt appeared anywhere in the last decade. And videos of him, always released by video tape from... well nobody knows.

If you are willing to put on a tin foil hat, you can suspect he never was anything but a tool to scare Americans.

>> No.2997894

>>2997844
he's produces a little under 100 videos since 2001

>> No.2997900

>>2997894
*produced

>> No.2997930
File: 69 KB, 197x189, osamabinladen.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2997930

>>2997894

So?

Look here is a picture of him alive right now. What do you say about that? I have a hard time believing anyone so happy looking could ever die.

>> No.2997933

>>2997862
>he has been thought to be dead for a long fucking time.

The only people who thought that were kiddies on the internet. No one of worth ever thought that because there was no evidence or reason to suspect he was dead.

>> No.2997966

>>2997930
wat

>> No.2997978
File: 62 KB, 500x413, FISH_BS-500.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2997978

>> No.2997981

>>2997930
True dat. Osama is having tea with Obama and being bros with him right now.

>> No.2998003

reuters has pics of dead people in the compound
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/04/us-binladen-pakistan-photos-idUSTRE7437KK20110504

no osama, but it proves the seals were actually there.
that would imply that some seals would have to be in on the conspiracy. very very unlikely

>> No.2998009

Okay let me state a few points to make it as cogent as possible.

1. Pictures of the body exist, as well as the helmet recordings of the SEALS that killed him. His sea burial was also videotaped. These have been shown to to both Obama's political opponents, as well as 9/11 victims relatives. They have all confirmed their existence.

2. About that sea burial: Islamic law stipulates that bodies have to be buried within a day of the death, hence the speed that he was buried. Doing it at sea served killed two birds with one stone: No country wanted his body, and if we had just unloaded it somewhere, it could have become a shrine or symbol for jihad.

3. If the U.S. government was bluffing, wouldn't you expect bin Laden, or another top al-Qaeda member to call their shit? The answer is yes. Instead, they have sworn retribution.

4. The original plan was to carpet bomb bin Laden's compound. Obama changed it to a ground mission specifically to avoid doubt. Imagine if Osama's body was covered in 10 tons of rubble.

Hope that clears it up.

>> No.2998023

>>2998003
The dead Osama might be another person who died in his place so that he could continue cooperating with the US in masterminding more terrorist activities, which would help keep the people at NSA employed and also divert public attention away from more serious issues.

>> No.2998030

>>2998023
And Obama might be a reptilian.

>> No.2998031

>>2998009

I'm happy to finally see some logic on the subject, however, can you give me your sources?

>> No.2998042

The real issue is that Osama was found a stone's throw from a Pakistani military base. The Pakistan and American government both claim that they didn't share information. But why launch a helicopter strike without informing them? More likely, the ISI and the US were aware of Osama's hideout for a while.

Oh, and why is no one upset that Osama didn't get a trail, but was assassinated despite being unarmed?

>> No.2998048
File: 838 KB, 800x533, osamabinladenroom.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2998048

Guis look at this evidence I just found.

This is an image of the President and his friends watching the TV when they found out Osama Bin Laden died. But you look closely... Osama Bin Laden is right there too! This is all one big joke!

>> No.2998053

>>2998031
>i'm happy to finally see some logic on the subject
>implying the rest of the rebuttals in this thread haven't been logical
>implying conspiracy theorist know anything about logic.

>> No.2998055

>>2998048
i would've shooped him in over by the door with that creepy lady...

also,
someone should facebomb that photo with that ladies face....

>> No.2998066

>>2998042

I used to be an anarchist myself.

Also I think you bring up good points that support my never ceasing paranoia and distrust of the government.

>> No.2998067

>>2998009
>Doing it at sea served killed two birds with one stone: No country wanted his body, and if we had just unloaded it somewhere, it could have become a shrine or symbol for jihad.
But now all the seven seas comprise one huge shrine dedicated to Osama. I think the sea burial made martyr worship even worse.

>> No.2998074

>>2998042
The CIA admitted Pakistan knew what was going on with the raid, but didn't want it to get out because of fear of retaliation from Pakistanis. Also, a ton of people are upset about Osama being murdered unarmed. Alot of people.

>> No.2998078

>>2998009

Well why do they care about islamic tradition at all?

Who cares?

Lets not give anyone the body so they cant respect or remember him, but lets dispose of him according to tradition which mourns and respects him.

Makes-no-sense.exe

>> No.2998087

>>2998066
>not sure if sarcastic, can't tell over the internet

>>2998074
That sounds pretty specious. It would not have been possible for CIA to get the precise intelligence on the hideout without some kind of boots on the ground. And for that to happen, the close co-operation of ISI would have been necessary.

>> No.2998098

>>2998087

No Im not being sarcastic. I know I sound that way sometimes. But Im not. I do that in real life too. Sound sarcastic when Im trying to be genuine.

>> No.2998103

>>2998087
Uh yea, I just told you they were working together.

>> No.2998104

>>2998042
>More likely, the ISI and the US were aware of Osama's hideout for a while.
I think it's all about timing. Obama didn't want the assassination and news to come come forth until he really needed the positive publicity offered by it. Ordering the hit when Obama's ratings have been plummeting amidst flak from other politicians was a great way to save himself politically.

>> No.2998113

>>2998103
wow I completely misread your post.

>>2998098
Nice, so what stopped your anarchist ways?

>> No.2998122

I think its just absurd they keep refering to where he was as a "compound" or a "mansion"

Its very suspicious. Because it seems to be like the US military showed up and discovered NOTHING. As if, the showed up a decade ago, didnt find anything, then found his uber mansion compound a month ago. As if, he had been living in a super uber mansion compound, and we didnt see it.

>desert
>desert
>nothing
>desert
>amazing death compound
>small village
>nothing
>desert

"Commander we found nothing"
"Did you check the desert?"

>> No.2998132

No, because like I've been saying for years, he's in my freezer, partitioned into bags, labelled "pork" and destined for the next Illuminati Annual Grand Auction slated for February this year.

>> No.2998139

>>2998132
>slated for February this year
Illuminati time machine?

>> No.2998145

>>2998113

I think around early high school I started developing some bluntly anti-authority attitudes. And late high school they had cystalized into some really angry political beliefs. I was very much a primitivist.

Anyway I went to college and found out there were anarchists who met and organized in my area and I started spending time with them. I kind of came to the conclusion that anarchists are really inept and incapable of actually accomplishing anything.

I think there is a problem that exists in all radical movements, whether thats anarchists or terrorists. That is, they spend a lot of time more percisely defining what it is they dont like, and by doing that they creative division within an already broken and decentralized movement.

Eventually I started studying economics, and I felt that problems in society can only be resolved by something that is strong and efficient, and is the opposite of what anarchists really are.

So, I dont know, I still feel like I have a bit of the same attitude in me.

>> No.2998155

Where is his death certificate? I WANT THE LONG FORM

>> No.2998166

>>2998145
I guess we as humans can never find absolute truths.

>> No.2998165
File: 40 KB, 500x540, 1295669903060.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2998165

here's how i know it is true...

obama came out to america and said that we killed him.
all of america has internet.
if osama found out that obama told everybody that obama killed osama, osama would make a video where he flipped off obama (with timestamp) and make that shit viral on the internet where everybody would see it.

lack of video of bin laden alive after obama declared him dead = proof that he really is dead.

>> No.2998177

>>2998003
lol is that a water gun in one of the pics?

>> No.2998184

>>2998166

Maybe not. I dont know. I feel like, to really accomplish anything you have to acknowledge differences and be sympathetic to everyone. Any radical group is going to say "This is the difference between me and you, and I wont be anything even close to friendly with you until we agree" and that stifles any kind of progress.

>> No.2998195

>>2998145
I have similar feelings. It seems that most anarchists I meet prefer to smoke pot and say "dude, we should bring down the government", or discuss the nuances of Bakunin instead of trying to get a firm grasp of reality and fix the problems that face us now, even if that means 'working within the system'. Or, they chose to fight one another over petty differences in their vision of a perfect society, and avoid working together to serve immediate common interests. It's very frustrating sometimes. But there are good anarchists.

>> No.2998203

I don't think so Tim.

>> No.2998216

>>2998195

Yeah, I think my feelings would be different if anarchists were unified and active. If there questions were more about the most effective way to accomplish their goals.

I would at least have a bit more respect for them. I dont know if I would consider myself an anarchist if things were different.

Also, when you made your trip, did you borrow my name sake?

>> No.2998221

>>2998184
>>2998195
That being said, what do you guys think about Noam Chomsky?

>> No.2998231

>>2998009
Ok. Let's keep the stories/theories together.
Conspiracy-
Al Qaeda was created by the government to instill fear in the american people to pass human right legistlation(that is, taking them away, PATRIOT act)
So, government = Al Qaeda, they control what they say and don't say.
You only hear what the news tells you, pretty easy to keep something from you.
It is not tradition to bury at sea UNLESS you are killed AT sea.
It's not hard to produce a double that looks like bin ladin.
Oh and it's said that the CIA knew about the technique al-qaeda used to destroy the buildings.

Official-
Al-Qaeda is a terrorist group started by osama bin ladin.
Osama FUNDED 911, one of his men thought of it.
Government is the ultimate truth.

>> No.2998234

>>2998195

How is it possible to move towards an anarchist society by working within the system?

Realistically it'll only happen through revolution, violent or not. Most likely nonviolent since violent revolution usually ends up being hijacked by fucking stalinists or religious freaks.

>> No.2998235

>>2998221

I dont like him.

I dont think he is a real anarchist. Basically all of his writing is about how bad foreign policy is and stuff. Nothing he ever said was criticizing, or discussing fundamental problems.

Its like saying
"slaughter houses are scarily efficient
rather than
"eating meat is bad"

Also, I was an anarchist of the primitivist variety, and he didnt think highly of primitivists.

>> No.2998240

>>2998216
>anarchists
>unified
pick one

>> No.2998244

>>2998231

I dont think Bin Laden started or founded Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda was a vague name for a large, vague, decentralized group of people who just happened to operate in similar ways for similar reasons. No two members of Al Qaeda cooperate, and they certainly arent following the orders of a leader.

>> No.2998254

>>2998216
I know a few economist majors, and they're all Milton Freedman protegees. Without reading your posts I lumped you in the same category, and figured /sci/ needed counterbalance. I'll change once I think of something more creative.

>> No.2998277

>>2998221
I like him a lot.

>>2998235
>Nothing he ever said was criticizing, or discussing fundamental problems.

He does, but he gets more air-time for discussing current events than for critiques of modern society. Check out some of his other writings, especially from when he was younger.

I found this interview to be good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW7nnLNANtQ

>>2998240
>doesn't understand anarchism

>> No.2998282

>>2998231

Hahahaha. This is some good fucking shit.

>> No.2998295

bin laden died in tora bora, gov't couldn't announce it then, because americans would have demanded troops return.

>> No.2998309

>>2998234
Revolution perhaps, but the first steps could (and should, realistically) be less drastic than the elimination of the government.

Besides, revolution isn't around the corner. So while trying to educate the populace, anarchists should, if they care about human dignity and such, continue to fight anti-union bills, organize strikes, engage in current affairs, etc.

>> No.2998339

>>2998309

Oh, well I agree. However, I consider strikes to be in some ways revolutionary activity.

I think things are slowly turning around, the Wisconsin events and the Arab uprisings which it was partly inspired by stirred some sort of reawakening of the American worker's class consciousness. There's certainly a greater lack of faith in the two-party system than there was, and people's anger against the very rich keeps growing.

The problem obviously is that the primary alternative in the American mind is first and foremost right-wing minarchism, and trailing that is state socialism. Anarchism has never been a major force in the USA.

>> No.2998349

>>2998277
>believes in fairy tales

>> No.2998350

>>2997796
somebody should dress up as osama and do a video, upload it to utube, it will be funny.

>> No.2998382

>>2998339
Whether you think strikes are revolutionary or not, an unfortunate number of anarchists would prefer not to involve themselves with them, because "it's giving capitalism some legitimacy" or some shit.

The problem with the Arab rising is that not much changed. And although the re invigoration of american working spirit is heartening, it doesn't seem likely that they are seeing the Madison events as a natural symptom of capitalism, but as an isolated problem (I could be wrong, just my impression). My fear is that as long as people sit on their couch watching TV or passively caving into a consumer lifestyle, nothing's going to change.

>> No.2998389

>mvq there's no point in publishing photos of Osama because you faggots will just say they're shoops

>> No.2998413

>>2998295
[citation needed]

>> No.2998418

>>2998254

Im not really a friedman protegee. I feel everyone on /sci/ and in real life labels me milton lover or some stupid hippy.

>>2998277

Ill watch this sometime.

>> No.2998419

>>2998418

Thats me by the way

>> No.2998420

>>2998382

Oh yeah the Arab uprisings themselves are really tragic. The big "success" of Egypt is essentially a military coup to preserve their privilege.

But as far as America is concerned, we're no where near any sort of major political spectrum shift but things are moving in the direction they need to be. The nation was captivated, even if only for a few weeks, by Madison. Most have forgotten it by now but come on, baby steps. The economy isn't getting any better, everyone knows that the rich are laughing all the way to the bank with record profits while the people suffer.

>> No.2998433

>>2998418
>Im not really a friedman protegee
I know, what I'm saying is that, for whatever reason I expcted (based on my experience with economists) you to be...well, like the other economists that I know. I unfairly lumped you in the same category and decided /sci/ needed better.

>> No.2998439

>>2998419
No need to point that out. It's obvious that you're talking to yourself in the previous posts.

>> No.2998445

>>2998433

Okay, well, its okay. I understand there is a perception that we are all libertarians or something. Its kind of not true.

I think most people who go into economics learn that free markets work. The only variable is how often they think free markets actually exist.

>> No.2998455

>>2998439

Are you that same guy who was saying that I am some big samefag who creates huge conversations with himself?

>> No.2998456

Bin Laden's assassination was Obama's trump card in dealing with his critics. He's secured his victory for the next presidential election.

>> No.2998461

>>2998420
What's promising is that people are beginning to move away from corporate media, which might be the biggest inhibitor to change, towards alternative media. Cross your fingers!

>> No.2998472

>>2998456

Just you wait until you see Donald Trump's trump card. Its un-trumpable. Its two dead osamas and a dead Kim Jong Il

>> No.2998474

>>2998445
>free markets work
I very much disagree, but it's too late for a debate.

>> No.2998488

>>2998474

Well, I welcome the debate. If you ever want to talk about it.

Even if that means exchanging emails or something.

>> No.2998496
File: 57 KB, 500x415, 1304499747438.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2998496

>>2998456
This.

>> No.2998514

Osama isnt dead, he just went home.

>> No.2998527

>>2998514

...to hell

sunglasses.exe

>> No.2998528

>>2998488
I look forward to it. I would be interested in what an economist w/ an interest in anarchism has to say. But, alas, it will have to wait until I finish exams.

>> No.2998537

>>2998528

Thats fine. Im actually studying for my exams right now.

Let me give you my email anyway

ccstearn@asu.edu

>> No.2998532

/x/phile here, to clear things up.

No.