/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.2997377]

>in religion thread on /x/
>someone posts the following:
>"They[religion and evolution] only conflict if you assume that evolution is the origin of species. You could still believe in creationism, and then believe that evolution applied at every point after that."
>next post from that person:
>"We can only conclusively prove that evolution has occurred within human experience because it has only been observed within human experience."

>mfw I read this.

Can anybody explain to me why we let people like this reproduce?

[Anonymous No.2997383]

obviously if people like that reproduce then evolution is false

[Anonymous No.2997386]

because they got to public office.

smart people are the minority.

[Anonymous No.2997390]

>in religion thread on /x/
you got trolled.

[Anonymous No.2997394]

>let
>argues for evolution

[Anonymous No.2997397]

>>2997390

I swear to god people on /x/ are fucking retarded as shit. at least on /sci/ you guys have the fucking common sense to understand basic logic.

[Anonymous No.2997400]

>>2997383
>obviously, OP.

[Anonymous No.2997403]

This would be cherry-picking, my freind.

My only point was that creationism (which I don't even believe in) doesn't conflict with evolution occurring in the modern world.

[Anonymous No.2997406]

>>2997397

Enough pandering.

ENOUGH ELITISM

[Anonymous No.2997409]

Haha, I saw this. You're the guy that was so stupid he didn't even manage to figure out a response and decided to go to /sci/ to parrot from.

Stay classy, /x/.

[Anonymous No.2997421]

>>2997400
ARE YOU ADDRESSING ME AS OP? THERE ARE WAYS TO CHECK POSTS FOR SAMEFAGGOTRY AND IF YOU'RE ON /SCI/ YOU CAN GO THROUGH THE EXERCISE TO PROVE IT OR YOU CAN DAMN WELL GO RUCK YOURSELF YES RUCK

[Anonymous No.2997425]

>>2997409

>>>/x/7586381

[Anonymous No.2997441]

[Anonymous No.2997446]

>>2997425
Yeah, that's the thread I was looking at.

Quotes from OP:

>ou have to be joking. is this seriously your argument? I'm honestly not going to respond because of how stupid that statement is.

>I could take 20 minutes and type out a well thought response about why you are a retard, but I figure it's not worth my time, so i'll let /sci/ explain it to you

Sounds like somebody doesn't have a response for something that should be easy to refute.

[Anonymous No.2997456]

>>2997446

god this is fucking hilarious because you're making a point that is clearly retarded and asking me to prove that you aren't a retard.

[Anonymous No.2997470]

He's right. The theory of evolution by natural selection does not posit the origin of life, just the natural variation of species and alleles in nature.

The second point, he's almost right. We can conclusively prove evolution has always occurred via inductive reasoning. But we can't deductively conclude it by our observations. That goes for most of science.

[Anonymous No.2997471]

>>2997409
that's a good one stay classy did you make that up?

[Anonymous No.2997472]

>>2997456
Your logic is circular:

>You are wrong
Why?
>Because it's clearly wrong
If something doesn't have a concise explanation, it isn't clear.

[Anonymous No.2997478]

>>2997470
My point was mostly based on the philosophy that you cannot conclusively prove anything, but I more or less agree with you.

[Anonymous No.2997486]

>>2997470

Oh but he's wrong on the creationism. Creationism posits that species did not evolve but rather were created since the beginning. That is clearly false and contradicts evolution theory.

[Anonymous No.2997487]

>You could still believe in creationism, and then believe that evolution applied at every point after that.

so you could believe that god created humans, and then evolution happened afterwards? That makes no sense.

>We can only conclusively prove that evolution has occurred within human experience because it has only been observed within human experience.

Two words are enough to refute this statement.
Fossil Record.

[Anonymous No.2997503]

inb4 300+ replies

[Anonymous No.2997510]

sage

[Anonymous No.2997521]

>>2997487
>so you could believe that god created humans, and then evolution happened afterwards? That makes no sense.
Actually, yes you can. Species currently evolve, even today.

>Two words are enough to refute this statement.
Fossil Record.
This is patently false. From fossils, all we can tell is that at some point (which we can moderately accurately date) these creatures lived, and then theorize that they evolved from each other; they are not CONCLUSIVE proof.

>>2997486
I wasn't referring to creationism as in the modern philosophy, but rather as the believe that a god created the world as stated in the christian bible, I needed a shorter way to say it, so I adopted the misnomer "creationism" as shorthand in this case. I'm aware that it does contradict it in that sense.

[Anonymous No.2997526]

>>2997472

the fact of the matter is, if you cannot see why you are wrong, you fail as a human being.

[Anonymous No.2997527]

>>2997510
...you didn't actually sage.

[Anonymous No.2997533]

>>2997521
Yes we can, read about DNA.
Also, Darwin's finches.

[Anonymous No.2997540]

>>2997521

are you honestly saying that god directly created humans? Are you fucking serious?

Pic related. it's what you probably believe

[Anonymous No.2997542]

>>2997527
You just love to go around and ruin people's moments. I bet he was really excited about that, and you had to come along and fuck everything up.
What the hell is wrong with you?

[Anonymous No.2997543]

>>2997526
There it is again:
>you're wrong because you're wrong.
That's not an argument.

[Anonymous No.2997544]

>he doesn't think that humans are a part of the animal kingdom, but instead believes that they were created separately

>also accepts evolution

Nice try.

[Anonymous No.2997550]

>>2997540
No, I don't. I am simply saying that people who do believe in both are not contradicting themselves.

Surprise! You've been arguing against an atheist this whole time.

[Anonymous No.2997561]

>From fossils, all we can tell is that at some point (which we can moderately accurately date) these creatures lived, and then theorize that they evolved from each other; they are not CONCLUSIVE proof.

you best be joking.

[Anonymous No.2997563]

>>2997533
Darwin's Finches? You mean the ones he observed within his lifetime?

My point is that we can only draw absolute conclusions based on what we have experienced firsthand, not to try and contradict what is widely considered scientific fact.

[Anonymous No.2997568]

>>2997563
>doesn't think evolution can happen rapidly

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080417112433.htm

[Anonymous No.2997569]

>>2997561
Not at all.

Care to explain why I'm wrong? I am perfectly willing to accept any reasonable explanation if I am given one.

[Anonymous No.2997571]

>>2997563
You ignored the entire first half of what I said.
You're right, he witnessed the same species of bird that had evolved in several different fashions. It's been proved with DNA, like I said.

[Anonymous No.2997578]

>all of humanity has believed in religion for many many MANY MANY millennial
>through out the years people constantly killing each other because their beliefs conflict with beliefs of others
>MFW you think your cause is different/better/justified and can't understand why people don't want to abandon belief god after millennial of believing in him

Seriously, I'm so fucking sick of this "holier than tho" attitude that EVERYONE has. Thiest, athiest, agnostic, it doesn't fucking matter. Your all morons for even arguing the point.

[Anonymous No.2997582]

>>2997550

you can't believe in both. it makes no sense whatsoever. honestly, I can't explain it better than "you're a retard" if you think they are compatible.

[Anonymous No.2997583]

>>2997568
I never said it didn't. I actually said the opposite many times.

To recap, my original thesis was that Christians who believe a God created mankind, and believe in all that stuff in the Bible, yet also believe that Evolution currently occurs do not contradict themselves.

[Anonymous No.2997585]

>>2997578
>holier-than-thou
>everyone is stupid for arguing except for me

Nice try.

[Anonymous No.2997592]

>>2997582
If you can't believe in both, there must be a reason. Otherwise you're just postulating.

[Anonymous No.2997594]

>>2997583
>believe all that stuff in the bible
>also accept evolution

Right. No. Try again without picking and choosing bits from science and pushing it into the bible.

[Anonymous No.2997609]

>>2997571
I never disagreed with that. I've actually agreed with that same sentiment many times: I was only pointing out that we have made these conclusions and observations within the time period of human recording. That's why we can assume them to be true today irregardless of what happened in the past.

[Anonymous No.2997619]

>>2997594
I'm not shoving bits into the bible: only pointing out that they don't overlap, involve each other, or contradict each other.

[Anonymous No.2997620]

>>2997609
>I was only pointing out that we have made these conclusions and observations within the time period of human recording.
>"if i didn't see it with my own two eyes, we can't possibly know what happened"

This fucking thread.

[Anonymous No.2997618]

>>2997585

[Anonymous No.2997627]

sage

[Anonymous No.2997628]

>>2997620
That's not at all what I said. I said that we can only conclude within absolute certainty what we ourselves observe. That has nothing to do with what we accept as true.

[Anonymous No.2997631]

If you mean that God created humans from our ancestors through the mechanism of evolution through natural selection, and you call this creationism, then yes, creationism and evolution are totally compatible.

[Anonymous No.2997634]

>>2997619
Of course they fucking do. If the bible literally says "Everything was created at one time in six days" (which it does), then you have to count that out as "allegory" or "metaphor" in order for the believes to be reconciled.

[Anonymous No.2997636]

>>2997585

[Anonymous No.2997650]

>>2997578

It is a stupid argument.

It reminds me of the epic debates between those kids who still believed in Santa Claus and those who didn't when I was in primary school. And that's a belief system for which they had physical proof and total agreement, when they asked, from every authority figure.

[Anonymous No.2997659]

>>2997631
While I think that is another non-contradictory belief, that's not what I said nor what I believe.

This was my point:

>God creates world
>Populates it with living organisms
>These organisms begin to evolve through natural selection

These things do not contradict each other.

[Anonymous No.2997661]

>>2997628
And what we have observed points towards evolution... wait

>>2997609

>irregardless

No, wait, you're a 14 year old trying to sound smart. I'm done.

[OP No.2997662]

This is the picture which sparked the debate

[Anonymous No.2997669]

>>2997634
I'm not talking about evolution as the origin of species. I'm talking about evolution as it occurs in the observable world today.

[Anonymous No.2997673]

>>2997609
You're still completely ignoring the fact that DNA has proved those finches all shared a common ancestor relatively recently.

[Anonymous No.2997674]

>>2997659

>These things do not contradict each other.
>mfw

[Anonymous No.2997679]

Creationism does not come from the Bible. The Catholic church has accepted evolution and rejected creationism for decades. When KS and other states threw out evolution in public schools, it was still the Catholic schools that were teaching evolution to their students. The only people who believe in Creationist Science bullshit are dumbasses who grossly misinterpret the Bible.

[Anonymous No.2997683]

>>2997659
Yeah, but that's where "god-of-the-gaps" comes into play. "If god didn't do it, what did? CHECKMATE"

Fucking fallacies.

[Dexter, Boy Genius !!NTt/FHhr1YY No.2997689]

>>2997662
No, you' insistence that the picture proved your point irrefutably, and no further argument was needed was what sparked the debate.

[Anonymous No.2997691]

>>2997679
http://www.slate.com/id/2122506/

[Anonymous No.2997694]

a 1

a 2

a 3

a 4 5 6 7 8 0 2-10

matrhmematicans

yes

yes
y
es
y


hyperbarola within parola

[Anonymous No.2997697]

>>2997689

it proves the point flawlessly. no further explanation is needed. you can't believe in christianity and evolution at the same time.

[Anonymous No.2997703]

>>2997661
Wait, so your reason not to continue or actually come up with a rebuttal is that I used the word "irregardless"? What kind of nonsense is that?
>>2997662
I pointed out the flaw in this argument: that the postulate, that "if evolution is true, the creation story is false" is fallacious. Evolution is a process that occurs, not an alternative theory for creation.

[Anonymous No.2997712]

>>2997673
No, I'm not. In what way does these Finches common ancestor relate to disproving the creation myth?

[Anonymous No.2997715]

>>2997703

>if evolution is true, the creation story is false

if evolution is true, then god didn't create adam and eve. If god didn't create adam and eve, there was no original sin. no original sin = no reason for jesus to die on cross.

I really can't make it simpler than that.

[Anonymous No.2997716]

>>2997703
No, because I'm tired of repeating myself again and again for some kid who won't consider the argument. You also don't deny it.

On another note, you used that word again, "creationism": I don't think it means what you think it means.

[Dexter, Boy Genius !!NTt/FHhr1YY No.2997718]

>>2997697
See?

[Anonymous No.2997730]

>>2997659
Yes, that's not creationism. That the origin of life. You are confusing "origin of life" debate vs creationism/evolution debate.

You seem to confuse a lot of ideas and topics but you are sorta right for the most part.

Evolution by natural selection is the unifying theory that natural selection alters gene frequencies which causes populations to change. Enough changes may cause new species to form. This explains the biodiversity we see today for different species adapted to different niches in their environment. This theory does not explain where the FIRST life form came from.

Creationism explains (wrongly) that populations do not change in gene frequency, or if they do, not enough to cause the biodiversity we see today. All the species had always existed since the beginning of our world created by an higher being. It suggests but does not explicitly say that God created life.

The creationist argument completely contradicts evolution. However, science has no good explanation for the origin of life (there are a few good hypotheses but none that can be called theories).

[Anonymous No.2997743]

>>2997718
see
>>2997730

do you understand now why you are wrong? do I need to make a blue's clue's episode for you to understand?

[Anonymous No.2997744]

sagey souse

[Anonymous No.2997750]

>>2997716
I already explained that I know full well that creationism doesn't mean what I'm using it as, but I've been using it as shorthand for the much longer
>belief that god created the earth as depicted in the book of genesis
.
>>2997715
Evolution being a currently occurring process does NOT mean that a God did not create the first two humans. When I refer to Evolution,, I am not referring to the origin of all species.

[Anonymous No.2997757]

>/sci/ - Science & Math
>1. All science and math related topics welcome.
>2. Homework threads will be deleted, and the poster banned.
>3. No "religion vs. science" threads.

SAGED and REPORTED

[Anonymous No.2997760]

>>2997750

you have to be trolling. there is no way you can honestly be so stupid.

[Anonymous No.2997771]

sage

[Anonymous No.2997775]

>>2997730
I know all of this, and if anybody had read any of my posts, I had already acknowledged that creationism was the wrong word. I am not arguing the evolution/creationism thing, I'm arguing the origin of life, which is a much better phrase.
>>2997743
>You seem to confuse a lot of ideas and topics but you are sorta right for the most part.
Yes, he is CLEARLY telling me I'm wrong.

[Anonymous No.2997782]

>>2997760
Once again, that's the ad hominem argument. You have yet to give a legitimate response to this claim, which I made in the first place, and just distracted from the original topic at hand.

[Anonymous No.2997788]

>>2997750

Okay, so how could we show that god placed the first two humans on earth?

We already know that we are made of most of the same DNA as apes, so let's just assume god used them as a template, which would explain why it seems as though we evolved from them.

We could show that all humans trace their ancestry back to a single couple. But we know that mitochondrial eve and the last common male ancestor lived tens of thousands of years apart, as part of a larger population of humans.

[Dexter, Boy Genius !!NTt/FHhr1YY No.2997789]

>>2997715
> If evolution exists, god didn't create adam and eve

That's only if you accept evolution as the method by which life came to be.
Evolution is "The change over time in one or more inherited traits found in populations of organisms."
Not "Every creature on earth came form the same original species"
You can believe that God created life, and THEN the inherited traits of those organisms began to change, as their environments changed.
Evolution does not claim to explain the origin of species, you are thinking of abiogenesis and the theory of common decent. They both involve evolution, but they aren't "evolution" themselves, and they are not mutually inclusive.

[Anonymous No.2997793]

>>2997775

>You seem to confuse a lot of ideas and topics but you are sorta right
>You seem to confuse a lot of ideas and topics
>confuse a lot of ideas and topics
>confuse a lot of ideas
>a lot

[Anonymous No.2997806]

>>2997789

so you're telling me that god made adam and eve.
that's what it sounds like.

[Anonymous No.2997822]

>>2997775
Listen, the fact that you using the wrong terms, even if you clearly tell us you are using the wrong terms, does not excuse you. It honestly makes you sound like an imbecile. I understand what you are trying to say: the creationist explanation of the origin of life does not contradict the evolution explanation of the origin of biodiversity on Earth. And you are right. But then again, why didn't you use the right terms to begin with?

It's like telling everyone you hate autumn but like winter, but by winter, you mean the season when all the leaves change color and fall.

[Anonymous No.2997826]

>>2997782

if you were of normal intelligence, you would already understand why your point is retarded.

but alas, you are a retard and are not intelligent enough to know why.

[Anonymous No.2997828]

>>2997793
Yes, he said I was getting words and terms mixed up with other ones, not that my logic was wrong. Way to ignore the whole
>You're right
part of the quote.
>>2997788
That's where religion conflicts with study and hard science, but the bible's version of creation doesn't prohibit Christians from believing in Evolution.

[Anonymous No.2997831]

fok

[Dexter, Boy Genius !!NTt/FHhr1YY No.2997833]

>>2997806
I'm not claiming anything, except that evolution and creationism are not mutually exclusive.

[Anonymous No.2997847]

>>2997833

...they are mutually exclusive.

[Anonymous No.2997850]

>>2997822
It wasn't an excuse, and I fully admit I mad that mistake. I used the wrong terms for lack of better ones, and that's what caused most of the confusion, I'll admit I was wrong about that. All I'm saying is that focusing on that alone is a strawman argument that ignores my actual premise.

[Dexter, Boy Genius !!NTt/FHhr1YY No.2997858]

>>2997847
How so?
AND DON'T SAY "It's obviooussss" I want you to actually explain why the two cannot coexist WITH WORDS.

[Anonymous No.2997863]

>>2997691

>mfw I was raised catholic and first learned about evolution when I was six and in sunday school.

[Anonymous No.2997864]

>>2997828

>the bible's version of creation doesn't prohibit Christians from believing in Evolution.

YES IT DOES.

if evolution is real, adam and eve didn't exist.
therefore, there was no original sin
therefore there was no reason for jesus to come.

it's fucking plain as day. you can't be a christian and believe in evolution

[Anonymous No.2997866]

>>2997847
As was said earlier, creationism is mutually exclusive to evolution, but creationism is different than just the story of Geneis. Creationism is a doctrine of which a key component is the rejection of evolution.

[Anonymous No.2997867]

I'm guessin' no one reads Francis Collins.

I hope that not everyone here is a Richard Dawkins dick sucker. Oh I hope.

[Anonymous No.2997876]

>>2997864
The very first part of your syllogism is fallacious, though. Evolution does not disprove the existence of Adam and Eve. Years of study and research does, but that's not the evolutionary theory.

[Anonymous No.2997886]

>>2997867
Not me. I fucking hate Dawkins, he gives atheists a bad name.

[Dexter, Boy Genius !!NTt/FHhr1YY No.2997887]

>>2997864
Define "evolution".

[Anonymous No.2997891]

>>2997867

>Francis Collins
>On October 14, 2009, Pope Benedict XVI appointed Francis Collins to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences.

sounds like a trap.

[Anonymous No.2997903]

>>2997789

Evolution absolutely implies common descent. We can trace all the kingdoms of life all the way back to pretty damn near the beginning. If god created anything then it was some sort of unicellular organism and there was not a lot of diversity.

[Anonymous No.2997910]

>>2997876

>Evolution does not disprove the existence of Adam and Eve

FFS. With evolution, you have a population that changes over time. Say the word POPULATION with me. P-O-P-U-L-A-T-I-O-N. populations of cells evolved into populations of fishes which evolved into populations of humans eventually.

there was never an adam and eve.

[Dexter, Boy Genius !!NTt/FHhr1YY No.2997915]

>>2997903
That's not evolution theory, thats Common Descent Theory, which utilizes Evolution Theory, but isn't evolution theory itself.

[Anonymous No.2997920]

>>2997828

The bibles version does contradict evolution. But the watered down version of events in the bible that you seem to be holding to doesn't.

So empirical observation has shown that humans cannot trace their ancestry back to a single couple.

So the point of creation must have been something symbolic, the first two people god put a soul into. To show this we would simply need to properly describe, and then demonstrate a soul. Then show animals don't have it. Then show that only people after a certain time in history had one.

Or perhaps god planted the first proto-cell on earth, c. 3.6 billion years ago. This could never be shown to be true, or false.

[Anonymous No.2997924]

>>2997887

>Define "evolution".

see, this is exactly what i'm talking about. you don't even know what evolution is. do you understand why I've been calling you a retard all this time?

[Anonymous No.2997927]

>>2997915
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution#Common_descent

They're on the same wikipedia page. Thats good enough for me.

[Anonymous No.2997928]

>>2997910
Concerning human evolution, the Church has a more definite teaching. It allows for the possibility that man’s body developed from previous biological forms, under God’s guidance through evolution, but it insists on the special creation of his soul. Pope Pius XII declared that "the teaching authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions . . . take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter—[but] the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God" (Pius XII, Humani Generis 36). So whether the human body was specially created or developed, we are required to hold as a matter of Catholic faith that the human soul is specially created; it did not evolve, and it is not inherited from our parents, as our bodies are.

Explain souls.

[Anonymous No.2997932]

>>2997910
That's not what the evolutionary theory is, you dunce.

Has anyone here besides me ever actually READ "On The Origin of Species"?

[Anonymous No.2997934]

>>2997915

Evolution, as we observe it on earth, is strongly in favor of common descent.

[Dexter, Boy Genius !!NTt/FHhr1YY No.2997936]

>>2997924
I know what evolution is, I'm just not convinced that you do.
You seem to think that evolution theory and common descent theory are the same thing. they aren't.

[Anonymous No.2997939]

>>2997920

>The first two people god put a soul into.

you realize that souls aren't real, right? No? goddamn it I don't know why I even try to educate you obvious trolls.

>perhaps god planted the first proto-cell on earth

did he give the first proto-cell original sin too? did the proto-cell eat the forbidden mitochondria?

[Anonymous No.2997942]

>>2997934
Now you're just going ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE

[Anonymous No.2997945]

>>2997924
He was saying you didn't know it, not that he needed to know.
>>2997927
Your primary source is fucking Wikipedia. That definitely sounds legit.

[Anonymous No.2997948]

Fuck you.

[Anonymous No.2997949]

>>2997939
Can you prove that soul isn't real? Religion is based on faith.

[Anonymous No.2997954]

>>2997949

nigerian prince scam is also based on faith

[Dexter, Boy Genius !!NTt/FHhr1YY No.2997959]

>>2997934
Oh, I agree, I'm just saying that Evolution Theory, in it's purest form, does not contradict the Biblical creation. You can believe in original creation and environmental change at the same time.

[Anonymous No.2997961]

>>2997939
No one here said they believe in souls, only that those who do, and believe in Evolution do not contradict themselves.

[Anonymous No.2997965]

>>2997939

I am just trying to explain what would be necessary to prove that Adam and Eve existed, not that I think they did exist.

And to show that abiogenesis will never, ever, be conclusively shown to be one way or the other. It was a once off event that nobody saw.

[Dexter, Boy Genius !!NTt/FHhr1YY No.2997972]

>>2997948
This isn't a "religion vs. science" thread, we are just discussing whether or not it is logically possible to believe in both.

[Anonymous No.2997973]

>>2997959

>You can believe in original creation and environmental change at the same time.

FOR THE LAST TIME.
NO.
NO NO NO
YOU CANNOT DO THAT
YOU ARE SERIOUSLY RETARDED IF YOU CANNOT SEE WHY.

[Anonymous No.2997974]

>>2997927
>Wikipedia

[Anonymous No.2997975]

>/sci/ - Science & Math

>
3
.

N
O

"
R
E
L
I
G
I
O
N

V
S

S
C
I
E
N
C
E
"

T
H
R
E
A
D
S
.

[Anonymous No.2997976]

>>2997949

We know that no aspect of human behavior or cognition requires anything outside the physical, biological processes of the brain to explain.

So if there is a soul, it is surplus to requirements. I would be curious to know why people think there is one, and what they base that belief on.

[Anonymous No.2997982]

>/sci/ - Science & Math

>
3
.

N
O

"
R
E
L
I
G
I
O
N

V
S

S
C
I
E
N
C
E
"

T
H
R
E
A
D
S

[Anonymous No.2997984]

>>2997975

This isn't a religion vs science thread.
if you look at OP's post, its a "why do we let retards have more babies" thread.

[Dexter, Boy Genius !!NTt/FHhr1YY No.2997985]

>>2997973
Okay, for the sake of argument, assume I am retarded. Tell me, specifically, what aspect of evolution theory contradicts the Biblical creation story. Don't just tell me that I'm wrong, tell me why.

[Anonymous No.2997987]

>>2997959

It definitely does. For one thing, the bible gets the order in which the various living things appear totally wrong. So the bible, as it is written, contradicts evolution.

Now, if you are reading the bible as a poetic work, not a text book, then fine. But if that is the case it contradicts reality no more or less than any work of fiction.

[Anonymous No.2997996]

>>2997985

bible story says god created adam and eve as first man and woman.

there were thousands of men and women before adam and eve because of evolution

adam and eve never existed

why is this so difficult?

[Anonymous No.2997997]

/sci/ - Science & Math

>
4
.

N
O

"
W
H
Y

D
O

W
E

L
E
T

R
E
T
A
R
D
S

H
A
V
E

M
O
R
E

B
A
B
I
E

S
"

T
H
R
E
A
D
S

[Dexter, Boy Genius !!NTt/FHhr1YY No.2997999]

>>2997987
Evolution Theory does not claim to explain the order by which life came to be, evolution theory is simply the idea that the inherited traits of species change over time. You can believe that God created life, and that the inherited traits of species change over time.

[Anonymous No.2998000]

>>2997945
>>2997974

Why does everyone hate on wikipedia? My fucking organic chem professor at UCLA tells us to go to wikipedia all the time.

[Anonymous No.2998005]

>>2997999

just answer this question.
did god make humans directly?
or did humans evolve from other creatures?

[Anonymous No.2998006]

/sci/ - Science & Math

>
4
.

N
O

"
W
H
Y

D
O

W
E

L
E
T

R
E
T
A
R
D
S

H
A
V
E

M
O
R
E

B
A
B
I
E

S
"

T
H
R
E
A
D
S

.

[Dexter, Boy Genius !!NTt/FHhr1YY No.2998014]

>>2997996
I don't think that you know what Evolution Theory is.
Evolution is the idea that the inherited traits of species change over time. That's it. That theory does not contradict the Biblical creation story at all.

[Anonymous No.2998015]

>>2998006

I'm looking at the rules right now and there is no #4

[Anonymous No.2998016]

>>2998014

>That theory does not contradict the Biblical creation story at all.

If it doesn't contradict the creation story, where does original sin come in with evolution?

[Anonymous No.2998018]

>>2998015
see
>>2997984

[Anonymous No.2998024]

>>2997954
Of course it can be twisted into something retarded.

Anyway, we're not arguing whether religion is true. We're arguing if Christian faith contradicts evolution.

[Anonymous No.2998025]

more more more

[Anonymous No.2998027]

>>2997999

Okay. You can believe that some god created life, and that evolution as we know occurs in nature happened after that. But not the god described in the bible, since it gets things wrong about the nature of life on earth.

Evolution neatly explains how living things are related to each other, and how they fit together into a tree of life. So from this, we can make assessments about how life came to be how it is today, and these assessments contradict the bible.

[Anonymous No.2998032]

>>2998024

christian faith and evolution are incompatible because of the problem of original sin.

[Anonymous No.2998044]

>>2998014

Christians are mistaken when it comes to original sin, then? Since we know that at no point in our history was there a single man and a single woman from whom all mankind sprang?

[Dexter, Boy Genius !!NTt/FHhr1YY No.2998049]

>>2998016

Are you just IGNORING the first half of my posts?
Because I already explained why The Theory of Evolution (JUST THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION) does not contradict the idea that God created the original man and woman.
YOU seem to think that evolution means "Humans came from a primitive species"
That's not what evolution means.

captcha: socalled oormos

[Anonymous No.2998060]

>>2997456

anybody have the full image of this?

[Anonymous No.2998064]

>>2998049

Let me show you exactly where you go full retard

>God created the original man and woman

see it?

with evolution, god didn't fucking create any man or woman. they evolved on their own. therefore, there was no original sin. therefore, christianity and evolution are incompatible

[Anonymous No.2998076]

>>2998049

If you accept evolution, then you must acknowledge that our findings about human history show that at no point were one man and one woman alone, as the sole, and original, human beings on this planet. Do you not?

The theory of evolution does not directly contradict the bible in the way you mean it, mainly because they had no idea about evolution when they wrote it. However, many things we know about biology DO contradict the bible, and these are based on our understanding of evolution. The order in which life on earth arose, the absence of a single, solitary human couple at any point in our history, to name two.

[Dexter, Boy Genius !!NTt/FHhr1YY No.2998081]

>>2998064
Evolution Theory does NOT state that humans evolved from a primitive species. Evolution Theory does NOT claim to explain the origin of species.
YOU ARE THINKING OF COMMON DESCENT THEORY, YOU FAGGOT.

[Dexter, Boy Genius !!NTt/FHhr1YY No.2998091]

>>2998076
I agree, I'm just playing the devils advocate (lol irony) for christfags who believe in Evolution Theory.

[Anonymous No.2998093]

>>2998064
The bible is a linguistic disaster, written by humans, and has lost much of its original meaning over time. Christian faith can be defined as strict adherence to the Bible or just something as simple as belief that "God made us and Jesus is the son". Evolution does not contradict God making the first human soul.

[Anonymous No.2998094]

>>2998081

Our understanding of evolution shows that humans and other apes share a common ancestor. And humans and other primates. And humans and other mammals. And humans and other animals. And humans and all life observed on earth.

In the absence of any counter-evidence, this is as certain as we can be on these matters.

Do you accept evolution as a principle, but think all of our findings based on it are false?

[Anonymous No.2998099]

>>2998081

I swear to god you are so stupid.

pic related

[Anonymous No.2998102]

>>2998093

Until someone shows us a soul, though, that is fairly meaningless.

[Dexter, Boy Genius !!NTt/FHhr1YY No.2998105]

>>2998094
See
>>2998091

[Anonymous No.2998110]

>>2998081

Modern Synthesis says that homo sapiens evolved from an earlier type of African ape. Now fuck off you stupid faggot, you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Anonymous No.2998111]

>>2998093
see
>>2997662

also, there are no such thing as souls. proof is in my pic.

[Dexter, Boy Genius !!NTt/FHhr1YY No.2998115]

>>2998099
Well, they mention Common Descent Theory on Evolution's Wikipedia page.
I guess that means they are the same thing.

You win

lolwat.jpg

[Anonymous No.2998116]

>>2998105

Further proof, as though any were needed, that genuine religious argument is indistinguishable from trolling.

Though I imagine you were trolling for a reason.

[Anonymous No.2998124]

>>2998116

no, he def wasn't trolling. he's fucking dead serious and a retard too.

[Anonymous No.2998131]

"I do object to the assumption that anything that might be outside of nature is ruled out of the conversation. That's an impoverished view of the kinds of questions we humans can ask, such as 'Why am I here?', 'What happens after we die?' If you refuse to acknowledge their appropriateness, you end up with a zero probability of God after examining the natural world because it doesn't convince you on a proof basis. But if your mind is open about whether God might exist, you can point to aspects of the universe that are consistent with that conclusion." - Dr. Francis Collins, director of the Human Genome Project

[Dexter, Boy Genius !!NTt/FHhr1YY No.2998142]

>>2998124
>>2998116

I'm not trolling, I'm just playing the christfag devil's advocate.
I don;t actually believe anything that I'm saying, I'm just explaining why christfags have no problem believing it.

[Anonymous No.2998143]

[Anonymous No.2998151]

>>2998142

bullshit. nice attempt at a save.
I know this is bullshit because all I did for the first part of the debate was tell you how retarded you were and you kept feeding me.

you got trolled hard and then threw the chessboard across the table and said you were trolling all along when you found out you were wrong.

[Anonymous No.2998156]

>this thread proves evolution by going from butthurt to trolling

[Anonymous No.2998158]

>>2998143
because they are being trolled by other atheists, its like a game of chess between the gods

[Anonymous No.2998162]

>>2998151
>implying real christfags would ever admit being wrong.

[Dexter, Boy Genius !!NTt/FHhr1YY No.2998179]

>>2998151

When did I was I was trolling?
I NEVER said that I was trolling, you idiot. I said I WASN'T trolling, I was just playing the devils advocate.

Learn to read.

[Anonymous No.2998189]

>come into thread
>GET FUCKING TOLD
>pretend you were a troll
>cry self to sleep

[Anonymous No.2998191]

>>2998179

[Anonymous No.2998206]

>>2998179

[Anonymous No.2998214]

He was playing devil's advocate because he himself was curious.

[Anonymous No.2998215]

>>2998206
>>2998191
HIVETROLL!!!

[::[rape my face]:: No.2998219]

I don't know OP why do you believe that evolution is right ? I would see things suddenly become pointless and even that, the odds of us appearing on this earth and suddenly becoming the dominant species is a very small number.

Excuse for not believing in "modern day" science, but until something more logically valid I refuse to believe in this non-sense of evolution.

[Anonymous No.2998230]

>>2998219

?

rephrase plz

[Dexter, Boy Genius !!NTt/FHhr1YY No.2998253]

>>2998214
Honestly, yes.

I wanted to see if the OP could come up with some good, interesting arguments as to why his point was correct, but arguments on 4chan always seem to devolve to
> UR RONG
>>NO UR RONG
>UR JUST A TROLL
Until one of us just stops posting.

[Anonymous No.2998311]

>>2998219
derp

[Anonymous No.2998414]

>>2998111
>trollface in pic

Like I'm going to take you serious after that.

2/10. too obvious