/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.2987985]

I premuse most of you believe Osama bin Laden is dead.

I also premuse most of you believe dark matter is a viable solution for the deviation in the math behind gravity. The reason for that is that you know that if you studied it, you would be able to see the deviation yourself. I'm not saying dark matter is the correct placeholder, what I'm saying is that you would know that it wasn't an absurd placeholder by testing it.

Now, I want to know why you believe the government is telling the truth about bin Laden. There is absolutely know way of knowing whether they're telling the truth. They even burned the compound to the ground and dumped the body in the ocean premusably because of Islamic tradition. However, Wikipedia states (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_funeral#Burial_at_Sea):

"If the death ___occurs____ at sea, and there is a fear of the decay of the body, the prayers should be recited, and the body lowered into the sea in a vessel of clay, or with weights tied to its feet."

"Additionally, if there is a concern about the exhumation and defiling of the body by an _____enemy_____, then it should be lowered into the sea in the same fashion."

Now that we know the burial was in fact not according to Islamic tradition, why was it buried at sea?

We have _no_ evidence for if Osama is in fact dead. This http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-osama-bin-laden-pakistani-video,0,643785
3.story is the only supposed proof we have... and "The footage, which could not be independently verified, is grainy and difficult to make out."

Critical thinking gentlemen. Demand evidence for other people's claims. The government hasn't provided the tiniest bit.

[Anonymous No.2987988]

>premuse

[Anonymous No.2987993]

> premuse

Also, you'll probably get a better troll response on /k/ with this. On /sci/, you need to delve more deeply into the theology of it, and why it's the one true belief.

[Anonymous No.2987995]

>>2987988
>>2987993
I did the premuse part by accident but I let it be there.

I'm not a fucking troll, please answer me.

[Anonymous No.2988001]

>>2987985
If you believe he's dead, then he's alive.

The reason is, you're a shitfucking faggot that dances on rainbows.

[Anonymous No.2988007]

>>2988001
Oh wow, the responses I get sure mirror the intelligence of /sci/.

[Anonymous No.2988024]

bump

[Anonymous No.2988026]

>Now that we know the burial was in fact not according to Islamic tradition, why was it buried at sea?

It was buried at sea so his followers wouldn't have a location to make a pilgrimage to.

They even said that in a press release you idiot.

[sage No.2988031]

>>2987995
Yes you are, you're posting about Islamic theology and politics on /sci/. This means either you're a troll, or you can't read. I'm presuming the former.

Also, sage goes in every box.

[Anonymous No.2988035]

Lets act under the assumption Osama is alive, and america has lied.

Why? The gains (a few points in the polls at best) are minimal. The risks are huge.

It would be so simple for Osama to reveal himself to still be alive to the world. Why would he not do this if he was alive? It would undermine the US on a global scale.

[sage No.2988042]

>his body doesn't matter as his death is symbolic
>they did dna and facial anaylsis
>it was a seal team that did the work and I'd doubt they'd lie
>not one foreign country disagrees that he's dead
>many witnesses saw the operation
>buried at sea to remove chances of a shrine
>you mad that you typed all of that to be laughed at, saged, and reported for non science material

[Anonymous No.2988046]

>>2987985
>>"Additionally, if there is a concern about the exhumation and defiling of the body by an _____enemy_____, then it should be lowered into the sea in the same fashion."

Well this is somewhat true. They were certainly worried that Al Qaeda could exhume the body and like it was said make it some sort of pilgrimage location for sand niggers.

[Anonymous No.2988050]

>>2988026
Saying something in a press release is the way the government talks to its people so a press releas
e doesn't give the statement authenticity. If you think it does, you're an idiot.

If they had buried him in the ground, secretly, the Osamaers wouldn't have a place to make a pilgrimage to.

I'm asking you to look at this skeptically, the same way you look at religion skeptically. Just becaue the government made a statement doesn't mean it's true. That's argument from authority mate. Google it.

Think critically. Think critically because you judge religious people for not thinking critically. Yet you do it too. You accept that bin Laden is dead without ANY FUCKING PROOF WHATSOEVER.

[Anonymous No.2988084]

>>2988042
>his body doesn't matter as his death is symbolic
Exacty. Obama has won the election by far because of this.

>they did dna and facial anaylsis
They said they did. Is this data available anywhere?

>it was a seal team that did the work and I'd doubt they'd lie
You have no idea whether they'd lie or not.

>not one foreign country disagrees that he's dead
They have no reason to and it's not in their interest. They're even more gullible than we are so it's not surprising.

>many witnesses saw the operation
Correction: Many witnesses saw an operation. I presume that if the government were to pull off something like that they couldn't just say they did.

>buried at sea to remove chances of a shrine
Buried secretly in the ground to remove chances of a shrine
See what I did there?

[Anonymous No.2988087]

>>2988046
If it had been buried secretly, no one would have known it was there.

[Anonymous No.2988093]

>>2988050
Unless you are going to come up with some Alex Jones style conspiracy theory, what logical reason is there for the US government to lie about this?

I'm the last person to trust the government, but I cannot see much reason to doubt this.

[Anonymous No.2988094]

>>2988050
There's a good chance someone would see where they buried him, especially since it needed to happen within a day...

In terms of being skeptical, you have to believe somebody sometimes. Otherwise the wealth of information we've accumulated over the years would be useless - as everyone should be skeptical until they do the experiment themselves.

If you don't want to believe the government, that's fine, but don't portray yourself as a skeptical scientist. You are simply a delusional conspiracy theorist.

[Anonymous No.2988096]

>premuse
>exacty
Some kind of elaborate troll?

Anyway I find the whole operation suspicious, but I don't see how a coverup would help America. It would only make them look stupid in the long term.

Even if they did take DNA, for example, does anyone have the "real" Bin Laden's DNA on record to compare it to?

[Anonymous No.2988115]

>>2988035
You've got it backwards. The gains are huge and the risks are minimal. While it would be pretty bad for the US for Osama to be found, it's easy to lock him up in a chamber on an island somewhere. No one has to know.

Also, I just thought of another thing. What if the US had found out Osama was dead, but hid it so they could steal more oil from Iraq? That's also a possibility.

[Anonymous No.2988121]

>>2988031
No, I'm judging your critical thinking.

[Anonymous No.2988129]

>>2988094
I see, I'm a delusional conspiracy theorist because I require evidence for another's claims. That makes sense!

[Anonymous No.2988127]

>>2988121
No, I'm judging -YOUR- critical thinking.

[Anonymous No.2988134]

>>2988127
Are you judging my critical thinking for requiring evidence for another's claims? Are you serious?

[Anonymous No.2988138]

>>2988115
>While it would be pretty bad for the US for Osama to be found, it's easy to lock him up in a chamber on an island somewhere
>it's easy to lock him up

Yes, because he only eluded capture for 10 years right?

[Anonymous No.2988141]

>>2988138
He eluded capture because the Pakistani government alerted bin Laden of troops in the area (that's confirmed). If the troops had CAUGHT HIM, it would be easy to keep him alive somewhere in a locked den.

[Anonymous No.2988143]

>>2988134
>you're posting about Islamic theology and politics on /sci/.

[Anonymous No.2988150]

>>2988143
I'm using that to portray your lack of critical thinking. I'm using MY critical thinking to show you that you don't use your critical thinking on this matter.

The government has no evidence for Osama's death. It's beneficial for Obama's election campaign.

[Anonymous No.2988151]

>>2988141
>the Pakistani government alerted bin Laden of troops in the area (that's confirmed)
[proof needed]

Also need proof that Bin Laden was in Pakistan for the whole of the last 10 years

[Anonymous No.2988161]

>>2988151
http://www.interpressnews.ge/en/world/28028-wikileaks-osama-bin-laden-protected-by-pakistani-securit
y.html

I never said he was in Pakistan the whole 10 years. But that helped him while he was there.

[Anonymous No.2988162]

>>2988150
YOU'RE STILL POSTING, YOU FUCKFACED SHITRAPING HALF-ASSED GIMPTARDED FREAK OF FAGGOTRY!

[Anonymous No.2988179]

>>2988162
Yes, I am. I have shown you're wrong, sorry.

[Anonymous No.2988182]

Osama never dies

[Anonymous No.2988184]

>>2987985

> premuse

i am asumed

[Anonymous No.2988187]

>>2988179
NO, YOU HAVE SHOWN THAT YOU ARE A FUCKING RELIGIOUS NUTJOB WHO WANTS TO SHIT UP /sci/ WITH HIS IMPAIRED CRAZY OFF-TOPIC BULLSHIT.

GO TO /int/ AND BE INSANE THERE, YOU WASTE OF AIR.

[Anonymous No.2988189]

>>2988161
>implying security forces = government
>implying corrupt individuals = corrupt government
>implying Pakistan could have helped Bin Laden evade capture for the time when he was in another country

America just couldn't catch him. Fucking deal with it. If he WASNT in Pakistan the whole time, then why was he so hard to capture elsewhere?

[Anonymous No.2988191]

Sage for tinfoil hat bullshit.

[Anonymous No.2988195]

They didn't bury him somewhere on land because no state they asked wanted his body to be buried on their ground.

Idiots.

[Anonymous No.2988200]

They did it to cover up the fact that Obama still hasn't released his birth certificate.

[Anonymous No.2988232]

>>2988200

[Anonymous No.2988273]

Well I'm pretty sure if Osama was alive news of his death would have reached him by now and he would have released a video of himself going "cool story US" to the world.

[Anonymous No.2988279]

I like that this is being held up as an example of "critical thinking" and healthy skepticism.

You don't have PROOF that the earth isn't flat, you're just believing what they tell you.

Guess what, guys? You can learn things from credible sources without having to experience it personally every single time. If you think it's a healthy mindset to cast doubt on everything just for the sake of casting doubt, enjoy your solipsism.

l2epistemology

[Anonymous No.2988285]

>>2988200
Its right here.

[Anonymous No.2988286]

[Anonymous No.2988289]

>>2988115
>The gains are huge
And what are these gains exactly?

[Anonymous No.2988296]

Do you realize that "the body omg" doesn't really constitute proof beyond what we already have? What are they going to go, show it on tv? Give you a chance to check it out personally? That could be faked too, why trust the media if you don't trust the consensus of every government in the world?

[Anonymous No.2988302]

So they do this huge cover up, knowing that they could be exposed by Osama simply posting a new video of him.

If Osama was alive why would he not release a new video criticizing the west for there dishonesty and lies? Degrading the integrity of our governments, would be a great motive to do this.

[Anonymous No.2988313]

>>2988302
Because he had a sex change and is now an Afghan prostitute?

[Anonymous No.2988314]

Isn't it wrong for a muslems body to be touched by an infidel?

where was this respect when saddams sons were killed and put on display?

[Anonymous No.2988325]

>>2988314

I think what they did with bin laden was to prevent, as much as possible, unnecessary muslim outrage.

They could broadcast on live tv someone taking a shit on his face, but we've gotten enough fallout already from dumb military behavior

[Anonymous No.2988333]

on a different note

i don't give much shit about if he's really dead or alive, but i find it quite shocking they just went in there and shot him

didn't he deserve a proper trial and stuff like everybody else, this whole thing is really strange like in a bad movie where they just go in guns blazing and shoot the whole place up

also it would be interesting if he would acutally found guilty of his crimes if on trial, i mean what evidence do we have against him

[Anonymous No.2988346]

>>2988333

Can you read? You don't just knock on the front door and expect things to go nicely. He's obviously armed. He could have surrendered and they were prepared to take him alive. He didn't...

>i mean what evidence do we have against him

uh, maybe the fact that he took credit for 9/11, and others who have been captured don't dispute that?

[Anonymous No.2988348]

What did you expect, Obama talking gangsta with operation video on live television? americandad.jpg

His photo will be used as a propaganda tool by terrorist.

Besides, does it matter? Whether he's dead or alive, what are you going to do about it?

[Anonymous No.2988352]

>>2988333
He wasd the most wanted man for a decade, he had enough time to voice objections we should think.

[Anonymous No.2988369]

>>2988346
Lots of terrorist organisation take credit for others work

[Anonymous No.2988373]

>>2988187
I've won, sorry.

[Anonymous No.2988382]

>>2988189
>implying security forces = government
Security forces IS government as they are controlled by the government

>implying corrupt individuals = corrupt government
Corrupt individuals in charge of the government IS corrupt government... what, is the government alive and it must be the government itself that is corrupt? No, the men in charge that are corrupt make it corrupt.

>implying Pakistan could have helped Bin Laden evade capture for the time when he was in another country
FFS I just mentioned that in the post you replied to. Pakistans helped him WHILE HE WAS IN PAKISTAN. NOT ELSEWHERE. GOT IT?!

[Anonymous No.2988386]

>>2988195
Can they prove that?

[Anonymous No.2988393]

>>2988333

here

i still find it slightly odd a government just send spec ops troops into another country, kill some people take one guy and dump him in the sea

and then everyone is like "murrika fuck yeah"

laws don't seem to apply to states, but i think that is hardly news

[Anonymous No.2988394]

Osama is both dead and alive until we open the box.
:trollface:

[Anonymous No.2988396]

>>2988279
Why are you skeptic about God, yet you take what the government says as holy truth? Germany and the USSR lied like shit to their civilians. Why shouldn't the US?

Critical thinking:

1. Many other states have lied to their civilians in the past, so it's possible that the US are too
2. I don't have proof to show that the US don't lie to their civilians
3. Therefore it is right to conclude that the US are possibly lying to the civilians

Sooo... are you telling me that it's un-critical thinkingy to doubt what the government tells you?

[Anonymous No.2988397]

>>2988289
Obama will without any doubt be reelected because of this.

[Anonymous No.2988409]

This man is symbolic. You cannot kill him because its like killing Tony the Tiger. Regardless of which frosted flakes will still exist.

[Anonymous No.2988411]

>>2988409
No he is dead.

You can't kill Tony the tiger because he's not real.

[Anonymous No.2988421]

What do they gain from tossing him into the sea versus saying they buried him?

[Anonymous No.2988426]

>>2988333
If they try him, the outrage and backlash would be too much. The courthouse would be bombed at least 20 times.

[Anonymous No.2988428]

>>2988421
Then he can't be verified. We have no evidence for his death except Obama's word.

[Anonymous No.2988430]

Now we cant ask him if he REALLY did plan 911

[Anonymous No.2988433]

Everybody's like "yea we got him"
What about the men left behind?

[Anonymous No.2988438]

>>2988428
If he's not dead, then he'd be making videos
If he's not making videos, then he is not a threat even if he is dead

So either they killed him, or they otherwise stopped his ability to rally Al-Qaeda around him by shutting him up. Either way is good.

[Anonymous No.2988451]

>>2988094
>A theory is something nobody believes, except the person who made it. An experiment is something everybody believes, except the person who made it.

[Anonymous No.2988452]

I don't care, and don't know, Ill take their word for it, but while I have no reason for believing they did catch him I have no reason for believing they didn't (stupid baseless conspiracy is not evidence)

wow lets celebrate the spending of billions of dollars to find and kill one man, just one man, was it worth it. no. the ideals he stood for where created by him, and have survived, he has done all that was needed of him. other people will take up the cause.

the saddest thing of all is that everyone is celebrating like it has made a difference, people use words like justice to excuse what has been done. The only upside is it will give some closure to the tragedy of 9/11 and other victims of terrorism but it is the illusion of thinking it has made a difference to safety.

[Anonymous No.2988464]

>>2988396
Hint: Nazi Germany and the glorious USSR were not democracies

[Anonymous No.2988465]

He got bored and wanted to retire, after all he was at US of A's paylist.

[Anonymous No.2988469]

>>2988396

You're utterly missing the point. No one's older than 14 is skeptical of religion solely to be contrary. Given what we are capable of measuring, we can adequately explain the world around us without invoking the supernatural, thus atheism.

As for bin Laden, every credible source of information we have says he's dead. Do you believe Elvis is alive too? Where's the body? Show me his body. You can't. He's alive. Elvis for president 2012.

[Anonymous No.2988475]

What I'm getting at is that it doesn't matter whether he is d.o.a.. His ideas and beliefs that are spread are the driving force not his physical presence and as a result he is a martyr to the delusional zealots. So, this entire crap being handed out in the news is some political sham. That only those who are naive and full of patriotic fervor would embrace.

[Anonymous No.2988480]

>>2988464
>Hint: Nazi Germany and the glorious USSR were not democracies

...and the populations mostly knew when they were being fed bullshit, other countries didn't just repeat the same thing, etc...

Really /sci/ is full of idiots. What the fuck happened? It's all religious trolls, conspiracy theories and "omg what if aleins are inside dust particles what does that mean!!"

[Anonymous No.2988497]

>>2988475
>What I'm getting at is that it doesn't matter whether he is d.o.a..

Are you aware that he had direct involvement in planning terrorist attacks? He's not just an "inspirational figure" so much as someone who funded and organized action. So yes, it does matter whether he's alive or dead. And aside from that, the symbolic value if his death (and lots of other current events in the middle east) undermines the efforts of people who are still around to do something.