/sci/ - Science & Math

[nancy pelosi invented crack !!sLz+fwCdMOg No.2964561]

how much of a say should men get about whether the girl they knocked up should or shouldnt get an abortion. pic related, typical woman

[Anonymous No.2964569]

can't believe shawnda put a virus on her phone, what a bitch

[Dr._Ploxo !!h3hyBdQOhuX No.2964591]

>>2964561
Considering they're half of the act, half of the choice.
If there is a split, argue about it, one of you is clearly the retard.

[Anonymous No.2964593]

>>2964569
no, she just put her phone on vibrate. tasha needs to lrn 2 trblsht

[Brokazaki !!GGO9kwAPCR4 No.2964595]

>>2964591
There is no "half the choice," because that's meaningless when it matters: when the two disagree.

Man doesn't have to carry it.

[Anonymous No.2964596]

why would shawnda even do that

[Anonymous No.2964605]

Men shouldn't have a say because they aren't the ones that have to carry the fetus around inside of them for nine months. They should not be required to fund abortions against their will, but they should have no say in paying child support. Anyone who fails to understand this extremely simple concept is a hopelessly closed-minded misogynistic virginfag, it's not difficult or confusing.

[Dr._Ploxo !!h3hyBdQOhuX No.2964609]

>>2964595
>implying she has to carry it
If she's gonna bitch about that she should have the abortion.
It's not meaningless when they disagree, clearly one isn't thinking logically and they should discuss it. If the woman doesn't want it an the man does, maybe one party sees something the other party doesn't. In any event the choice being just the woman's is an bout of economic retardation for the man.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.2964610]

>>2964609
>implying that discourse always leads to consensus
Sure is retard in here.

[Anonymous No.2964617]

>>2964605
>Guy wants the baby, woman don't, she aborts, no baby
>Guy don't want the baby, woman don't abort, guy must pay child support
I'm sorry, but that is very unfair to men. If you disagree, you're just an angry single mother no one wants except to pump & dump.

[Dr._Ploxo !!h3hyBdQOhuX No.2964623]

>>2964610
>implying healthy couples can't come to agreements
>implying you should be fornicating with irrational morons
>implying that's not the entire point of discourse
should i continue?

[Anonymous No.2964625]

the only opinion that should matter is the man's

[Anonymous No.2964628]

>>2964617
Your viewpoint is completely fucked because you don't seem to understand how being single and raising a child isn't comparable to having to make a payment every month. I don't understand how people like you think, it's like you just don't get others' perspectives, if you can't see something happening to you personally you just can't fathom what it is like.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.2964630]

>>2964623
This is a discussion about what the law should be. We are not ruled by angels, and neither are men (humans) angels. That's why we need government, police, and military.

To postulate that the decision of whether to have an abortion should be left to consensus is equivalent to full on anarchy, which is unbelievably stupid. If you persist and defend anarchy, then you are an irredeemable idiot, and I have not much to say.

[Anonymous No.2964631]

>>2964623
I don't even understand your argument, I'm detecting astronomical degrees of self righteousness probably based on your utter lack of a sex life but your pointed statements don't really say anything meaningful.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.2964635]

>>2964628
It's a simple enough proposition. I don't necessarily agree with it, but it's straightforward. He would claim that the mother can easily choose to put it up for adoption, and there's no moral reason to demand money from the father.

[Anonymous No.2964637]

>>2964630
Anarchy is impossible, in the absence of a centralized government with a monopoly on violence the same principles of capitalism that have been responsible for the success of the West would simply fill in the gaps of society and the ultimate result would be more efficiency and justice all around.

[Dr._Ploxo !!h3hyBdQOhuX No.2964640]

>>2964628
Firstly, you're biased.
Secondly, the payments can be financially crippling to men if the lawyer and judge are biased.
Thirdly, no you don't get other people's perspectives. You just said so.

[Anonymous No.2964643]

>>2964635
It's like arguments for estate taxes and cracking down on trust fund babies, though, it may seem rational but it fails to account for human nature which, in the field of law, is of equal if not greater importance.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.2964647]

>>2964637
The success of the west is not capitalism. It's the humanist and secular values of the enlightenment, and the embrace of science.

The Islamic world used to be the center of learning in the world, up until something like 1300 when some Muslim asshat scholar said that science is the work of the devil. They - the Islamic world - hasn't recovered since. No important scientific discovery has come from the Islamic world in centuries.

[Anonymous No.2964648]

The only opinion that matters is the baby's

[Anonymous No.2964656]

>>2964617
>Guy wants the baby, woman don't, she aborts, no baby
>Guy don't want the baby, woman don't abort, guy must pay child support

I'd have to agree that this is unfair.

If both parents want the baby, both parents contribute
If neither parent wants the baby, they get an abortion
If only the father doesn't want the baby, he doesn't have to pay child support
If only the mother doesn't want the baby, she cannot get an abortion, and must give the child to the father.

Basically: both parents have to agree on the abortion, otherwise whoever wants the baby gets it. The father might have to compensate for the time off the mother must take to have the baby.

If however, they took precautions to avoid an unwanted pregnancy, only one has to request an abortion, and the mother will be forced to do so.

That would make the most sense to me. A bit harsh in some respects, but fair.

[Dr._Ploxo !!h3hyBdQOhuX No.2964658]

>>2964631
The point of discourse is to come to an agreement. A healthy couple should be able to come to an agreement. If a couple can't come to an agreement they shouldn't be fornicating.
>>2964630
>anarchy
No, it's democratic process, I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion of anarchy.
You're implying that it's a discussion of law, it's strictly sociological at this point. To quote:
>how much of a say should men get about whether the girl they knocked up should or shouldnt get an abortion
It doesn't say "in court." It doesn't say "legally." It asks the question. That makes your first statement utterly retarded. Your second statement is fundamentally retarded, I suggest you brush up on social studies, maybe go to /soc/ where your kind dwells.

[Anonymous No.2964666]

>>2964640
How am I biased? I'm a right-leaning single adult male, I was raised by stable married parents and I'm never going to be a single parent. I'm well aware that a corrupt legal system can result in injustice favoring women, that is not a good thing. It's just better than enacting legislation that is fundamentally unjust to try to prevent corruption. The reason abortions are legally justified is because a fetus is dependent on a woman's body to develop into a baby. There is no connection to a man's body here once the fetus is conceived. Therefore it is ludicrous to allow the father to dictate what happens in a woman's body. Child support is also a fundamentally socially necessary concept. Men are capable of choosing whether or not to use a condom. If the irresponsible choice is made, things are no longer in his control, and allowing him to demand an abortion is a gross violation of the woman's rights.

I assure you, I am not biased, I merely disagree with you. And I understood what your initial argument was, I just have no idea how what you said in the post I replied to was connected to that. If you disagree with the principle of child support, that's your opinion and you have a right to it, but using that opinion to justify gross injustices in the law such as forcing an abortion on a woman is ridiculous.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.2964670]

>>2964658
> >how much of a say should men get about whether the girl they knocked up should or shouldnt get an abortion
>It doesn't say "in court." It doesn't say "legally."
A reasoned and sensible reply. I'm impressed.

I bow to your logic. I think you're horribly wrong with the implication of the OP, but meh.

[Anonymous No.2964669]

>>2964658
So then is what you are saying that people who can't come to an agreement shouldn't have sex? Do you believe casual sex and divorce should be illegal, then? If not, how does this relate to the debate about abortion rights? The legal framework for this is only because people who shouldn't have unprotected sex, no one is disagreeing that this shouldn't happen but given that it does we must try to find the best solution.

[Anonymous No.2964673]

>>2964656
>If only the father doesn't want the baby, he doesn't have to pay child support.
This would cause a shitstorm of trouble. Any womanizer who accidentally gets someone pregnant would then just easily be able to say he didn't want it and not have to be responsible for it. A lot of you are assuming that most people who think about abortions are people in healthy, normal relationships.

[Anonymous No.2964679]

Doesn't matter, its too late. Youre freedoms is in her hands once you knock up a bitch.

This is why I'm glad I'm still a virgin, free to do anything without risking this shit.

[Anonymous No.2964680]

>>2964658
Okay, I don't think anyone is going to disagree that people shouldn't have unprotected sex if they aren't ready to deal with the consequences and that ideally they should come to an agreement on the abortion issue, the debate in this thread was centering around the legal nuances of this situation though which I guess was why I didn't understand your earlier post (didn't see this until after I replied).

[Brokazaki !!GGO9kwAPCR4 No.2964683]

>>2964656
>forcing the mother to carry a child that will be taken from her
>forcing the mother to abort even if she doesn't want to
>fair

[Anonymous No.2964686]

>>2964679
If by "do anything" you mean "jerk off to fetish porn with rubberbands on your balls," I'm free to do that too.

[Dr._Ploxo !!h3hyBdQOhuX No.2964691]

>>2964666
I understand that the mother is responsible for the fetus' development. And knowing that you're a male doesn't really affect how I view your bias.
Your bias is that all procreation is purposeful and desired.
Even wearing a condom you can have slip-ups. In those events (I understand the abstinence arguement, but it's pants-on-head retarded) there is likely a disagreement on the birth of the child. It's a 50-50 process, with a 50-50 choice to end said process. That said, the "bodily connection" is genetic/paternal, ask your dad if he feels a connection to you when you're away, he'll likely call you a faggot, but say yes.
>also:
The concept of "carrying it" doesn't come into play until well after the point that it's legal to abort the child.

[Anonymous No.2964719]

>>2964683

If the mother intended to have the child, and as a result didn't take any of the necessary precautions to avoid an unwanted pregnancy, she should have to live with her decision.

If she took the necessary precautions and somehow still got pregnant, the father should be able to force her to get an abortion.

Any idiots who sleep around and bitch when shit doesn't go their way can fuck off.

[Anonymous No.2964729]

anyone else notice she has two rows of eyebrows?

[Brokazaki !!GGO9kwAPCR4 No.2964737]

>>2964719
>she should have to live with her decision.

Why?

>If she took the necessary precautions and somehow still got pregnant, the father should be able to force her to get an abortion.

Why?

>Any idiots who sleep around and bitch when shit doesn't go their way can fuck off.
>father sleeps around with mother
>shit doesn't go his way, she gets pregnant
>he bitches about he
>he can force her to abort
>she bitches about it
>lolwhocares?

Why?

[Anonymous No.2964740]

>>2964656

Put more simply: The decision about whether or not to have a child should be made before sex, and afterwards, can only be changed if they both decide that that is what they want.

[Anonymous No.2964745]

Jut use protection, it not difficult

>lol cock sock
or
>lol pill
or
>lol coil
or whatever works for you

[Anonymous No.2964750]

before conception both are equally responsible. afterwards the woman is in the shittier position so the decision defaults to her. it makes sense to me.

[Anonymous No.2964754]

>>2964737
>she should have to live with her decision.

Why? It's unfair to the father.

>If she took the necessary precautions and somehow still got pregnant, the father should be able to force her to get an abortion.

Why? They both made a decision before sex that they did not want a child.

>Any idiots who sleep around and bitch when shit doesn't go their way can fuck off.
>father sleeps around with mother
>shit doesn't go his way, she gets pregnant
>he bitches about he
>he can force her to abort
>she bitches about it
>lolwhocares?

Why? If they were sleeping around unprotected, the father cannot force the woman to get an abortion. They must both agree.

[Anonymous No.2964761]

If the woman wants the kid and the man doesn't, the man should not be forced to pay for it. Woman's choice, woman's consequences.

If the woman wants the abortion and the man doesn't, though luck, finbd yourself a mother, man and not a whore.

[Brokazaki !!GGO9kwAPCR4 No.2964876]

>>2964754
>it's unfair to the father
Why is it okay to be unfair to the mother?

>they both made a decision before sex that they did not want the child
No. If you have sex, you accept that a child is a possibility. Before having sex, you are told "this may result in a child." You then choose to have sex. That you don't want to have a child is irrelevant. (This is often a line used by pro-lifers, I know. I am not one of them.)

>If they were sleeping around unprotected, the father cannot force the woman to get an abortion. They must both agree.

Okay, but what about:

>>2964719
>If she took the necessary precautions and somehow still got pregnant, the father should be able to force her to get an abortion.

Why?

[Brokazaki !!GGO9kwAPCR4 No.2964881]

>>2964761
>woman and man both choose to have sex
>but if there's pregnancy, it's only the woman who made a choice so only she gets consequences.
>also if the woman didn't want the baby, she's a whore.
>but if the man didn't, it's cool.

[Anonymous No.2964889]

>>2964881
At what point do you remove the mans opinion from the situation?

You said it yourself, they both choose to have sex, so shouldn't they both choose to abort it or not?

Why should the man be held responsible for a baby he doesn't want, that the woman could abort?

They did both choose to have sex, yes. But keeping the baby is an entirely different issue.

[Anonymous No.2964898]

>>2964889
This.
Man should be able to sever ties completely.

[Brokazaki !!GGO9kwAPCR4 No.2964948]

>>2964889
>At what point do you remove the mans opinion from the situation?

When I factor in who has to carry it.

>You said it yourself, they both choose to have sex, so shouldn't they both choose to abort it or not?

That'd be nice, but in the end, the abortion either occurs or it doesn't. If they disagree, only one person really gets their way, so no, they can't both make the choice. It's impossible.

>Why should the man be held responsible for a baby he doesn't want, that the woman could abort?

Because he chose to have sex despite knowing what could've happened. If a woman doesn't want to have an abortion or give up her child for adoption, and both the male and female agreed to the sex, then the male puts the female in a very unfair position by not contributing for the child in any way. In short, no, you can't fuck someone, put them in a terrible position, and walk off guilt free. Deal with it.

I'll admit that this is not an issue I'm concrete on. I've been formulating an opinion on it for... Years. It just never gets any of my thoughts because I hardly ever debate abortion anymore.

>They did both choose to have sex, yes. But keeping the baby is an entirely different issue.

An issue you should've discussed with her. Didn't take that precaution? Deal with the consequence.

(This is coming from someone who got a pro-lifer pregnant. Stupid period of my life. I never considered leaving her. She ended up changing her outlook on life and had the abortion.)