/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.2917466]

Is there any way for mankind that we can somehow overcome the obstacle of dwindling resources?
Any theories on materia converters or 100% recycling or something?

I'm not an extremely scientifically literate person, but I know my way around basic physics and chemistry.
I figure you guys might know more, so enlighten me.

[Anonymous No.2917476]

>100% recycling

entropy bro

[Anonymous No.2917498]

>>2917476
Yes yes I know, but stuff we take for granted and proven now might be flatout wrong in a hundred years.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.2917517]

Molecular disassemblers and assemblers
Also asteroid mining

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining
>At 1997 prices, a relatively small metallic asteroid with a diameter of 1 mile contains more than $20 trillion US dollars worth of industrial and precious metals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_Earth_Objects#Near-Earth_asteroids
>As of May 2010, 7,075 near-Earth asteroids are known,[14] ranging in size up to ~32 kilometers (1036 Ganymed).[16] The number of near-Earth asteroids over one kilometer in diameter is estimated to be 500 - 1,000.

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.2917525]

Holy shit, are we really running out of those things that fast?

You know, running out of resources will obviously bring about great devastation, and ultimately lead to the deaths of billions of people.

But in my view, those distasters have been on our horizon ever since we started recklessly using such resources. I almost feel like it will be a great releif when people have to become frugal, and live simply. And we will be forced to live in ways that dont destroy the environment or each other.

[Anonymous No.2917530]

>>2917517

Basically this. People will keep mining shit as long as its cheaper than recycling. The reason you get a 10c refund on aluminium cans is that smelting bauxite is expensive.

Whereas for common metals, or hard to recover ones, its not worth it.

Asteroid mining will take off when a) metal prices soar and b) we build some cheap launch vehicles.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.2917684]

>>2917525
http://www.cracked.com/article_19048_6-important-things-you-didnt-know-were-running-out-of.html

>>2917530
>a) metal prices soar
http://www.businessinsider.com/chinas-has-just-started-ban-of-rare-earth-metal-exports-to-the-us-201
0-10
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_earth_element#Global_rare_earth_production
>Today, the Indian and South African deposits still produce some rare earth concentrates, but they are dwarfed by the scale of Chinese production. China now produces over 97% of the world's rare earth supply, mostly in Inner Mongolia,

>b) we build some cheap launch vehicles.
http://www.universetoday.com/73536/nasa-considering-rail-gun-launch-system-to-the-stars/
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/article4799369.ece

[Anonymous No.2917765]

I imagine peak oil will influence the idea of economically recoverable resources here. Peak oil is the downfall

[Anonymous No.2917785]

It will with recycling and capitalism
Or it won't and loads of people are going to die.
Only thing you will notice is wars in some third world countires and increase in proce of most items, this is asuming you live in Europe/US

[Anonymous No.2917802]

>>2917785

This.

The brown people will suffer-thank you imperialistic capitalism, I salute you, and thank causality for being born a white male.

[Anonymous No.2917846]

>>2917785
Isn't out ultracapitalist world pretty much the cause of this?

The giant waste production and man made scarcity to control prices?

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.2917862]

>>2917846
Largely, but think of all the people making large decisions as dumb in most things other than their college major. A lot of shit happens in this world from ignorance.

[Anonymous No.2917873]

>>2917862
I think the people who run the corporate and economic decisions know exactly what's going on, but the general population don't

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.2917887]

>>2917873
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ3RrqBqk14

[Anonymous No.2917907]

Based on content of indium in zinc ore stocks, there is a worldwide reserve base of approximately 6,000 tonnes of economically viable indium.[17] This figure has led to estimates suggesting that, at current consumption rates, there is only 13 years' supply of indium left.[18] However, the Indium Corporation, the largest processor of indium, claims that, on the basis of increasing recovery yields during extraction, recovery from a wider range of base metals (including tin, copper and other polymetallic deposits) and new mining investments, the long-term supply of indium is sustainable, reliable and sufficient to meet increasing future demands.[19]

the OP's image is not accurate.

[Anonymous No.2917919]

>>2917907
>implying corporations wouldn't lie through their teeth to protec their business


Not much of a viable source really.

[Anonymous No.2917923]

>>2917919


how would lying about their ability to extract indium help their business??

[Anonymous No.2917926]

>>2917919

>full retard

[Anonymous No.2917946]

>>2917923

They can jack up the price of the metal, or jack up their share price

[Anonymous No.2917971]

A near 100% method of recycling already exists.
It can be used on almost all waste, once started creates its own power and surplus, produces only raw elements.

I bother with the specifics but basically it runs massive amounts of electricity through the garbage changing its state into plasma, breaking it down into its component elements, this is done in a vacuum to prevent it from burning.
More Info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_arc_waste_disposal

there are only 4 plants in operation, so far it is a complete success.

This in mind, the real problem will be running out of naturally existing compounds the we cannot yet synthesize, natural rubber for example.

[Anonymous No.2917973]

>>2917946

you are seriously this dumb? you cant jacking up the price by telling people you have supplies indefinitely. you might increase your share prices but that will help the shareholders. only execs can take advantage of that by selling their overvalued shares, but when shit blows over in 13 years, they will be sent to jail. nobody will be stupid enough to do that. so spewing shit from your mouth.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.2917978]

>>2917971

[Anonymous No.2917980]

>>2917973
OP here

>but when shit blows over in 13 years, they will be sent to jail

because so many CEO's have been sent to jail, right?

Chances are they will just bribe someone and get off with a stern talking to.

But we are going offtopic here
>>2917907
If that is true that hooray for us I guess.

[Anonymous No.2917989]

If we wish to start from where we left [which would be much more beneficial) instead of starting over (civilization-wise), literarily, from scratch with little or no infrastructure to go and with great uncertainty on whether or not the colonists will ever be able to rebuild, nor even survive on the new world], we should invent a feasible way to get around the speed limit that is the speed of light, or more commonly known as FTL.

Sooner or later humanity must migrate to other worlds, and we'd have much better chances with earthlike habitable exoplanets than, for example try to terraform Mars, Venus or whatever.

That would our best chance.

[Anonymous No.2917996]

>>2917971
Interesting, unfortunately I doubt this will take off until it HAS to, due to doing it on a government budget, and that it will probably threaten a lot of resource mining companys, if some big CEO decides to try privatizing it though?

[Anonymous No.2917994]

If we wish to start from where we left [which would be much more beneficial) instead of starting over (civilization-wise), literarily, from scratch with little or no infrastructure to go and with great uncertainty on whether or not the colonists will ever be able to rebuild, nor even survive on the new world], we should invent a feasible way to get around the speed limit that is the speed of light, or more commonly known as FTL.

Sooner or later humanity must migrate to other worlds, and we'd have much better chances with earthlike habitable exoplanets than, for example try to terraform Mars, Venus or whatever.

That would our best chance.

Picture could be related, or not. Though i want to believe.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.2918004]

>>2917994
>and we'd have much better chances with earthlike habitable exoplanets than, for example try to terraform Mars, Venus or whatever.

1) Find a planet within 40ly in the habitable zone.
2) Find a planet with around 1 Earth gravity
3) Find a planet with an active magnetosphere
4) Find a planet with more than trace amounts of water
5) Find a planet with a largely oxygen/nitrogen non-poisonous atmosphere
6) Find ways to transport hundreds of millions of people at a significant fraction of the speed of light toward this new world while keeping them in some form of stasis so they do not succumb to aging and the long trip between Sol and Beta Hortensis or whatever

Mars isn't as hard to terraform as some people think it is. It's practically 2 minute noodles. Just add heat and water.

[Anonymous No.2918005]

>>2917971
well thats it, green energy solved, and the pollution problem, and resource dry up.

on to jet packs and immortality

[Anonymous No.2918027]

>>2918004
>It's practically 2 minute noodles. Just add heat and water.

I don't think the Chinese can build microwaves that big.

[Anonymous No.2918028]

>>2917980

>because so many CEO's have been sent to jail, right?

mainly because they dont lie to investors to make money

[Anonymous No.2918030]

>>2918004

And wait a reaaally long time.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.2918034]

>>2918027
But soon (< 50 years) replicating droids can build reflective orbiting material to focus more heat and light on the Martian surface.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Mars#Carbon_dioxide_sublimation
>There is presently enough carbon dioxide (CO2) as ice in the Martian south pole and absorbed by regolith (soil) around the planet that, if sublimated to gas by a climate warming of only a few degrees, would increase the atmospheric pressure to 300 millibars,[citation needed] which is comparable to that at the peak of Mount Everest. While this would not be comfortably breathable by humans, it would eliminate the present need for pressure suits, melt the water ice at Mars' north pole (flooding the northern basin), and bring the year-round climate above freezing over approximately half of Mars' surface.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.2918044]

>>2918030
2050 -
0.2c to a star 35 ly away. Costs up to 500 billion dollars. Transports about a couple hundred people. Takes 175 years to arrive.

----------------

Get bots to create factories for materials on Phobos or Deimos, start creating reflective material. Have groun base and orbiting base looking over early beginnings of project. As atmosphere pressurizes, temperature rises, seas begin to form, ship more people out.
Begin seeding of engineered oxygen-producing powerhouse algae over much of the terrain while the atmosphere is still climbing in pressure.
Within 175 years you could have a 400 millibar 30% oxygen/50% nitrogen/20% CO2 atmosphere. By then we'll likely have technologies to speed up the conversion of that remaining CO2 into breathable atmosphere. All within a couple of centuries.

[Anonymous No.2918085]

bump

[Anonymous No.2918228]

>>2918004

>6) Find ways to transport hundreds of millions of people at a significant fraction of the speed of light toward this new world while keeping them in some form of stasis so they do not succumb to aging and the long trip between Sol and Beta Hortensis or whatever

That way would be FTL, that was the whole point. If it's ever discovered, it would make the centuries lasting and incredibly expensive process of terraforming completely unnecessary. Besides, humanity as a whole (or even a small fraction) may not have the time to wait for a planet to get terraformed. When the time runs out, and humanity has stripped earth from majority of it's accessable resources, civilization will collapse, majority of the people will die, and humanity will be forever stuck on dark ages, since there will no longer be any viable resources for humanity to reach anywhere near it's former glory.

And remember, im not talking about going faster than light in a traditional sense, but get around it using a warpdrive, hyperdrive or whatever other theoretical loopholes there are.

[Anonymous No.2918255]

>>2918228
>If it's ever discovered, it would make the centuries lasting and incredibly expensive process of terraforming completely unnecessary.
>If it's ever discovered
That is my point.
Also,
>incredibly expensive process of terraforming completely unnecessary.
By the time we can do FTL, terraforming nearly-Earthlike planets such as Mars will be most likely 'free.'
>Besides, humanity as a whole (or even a small fraction) may not have the time to wait for a planet to get terraformed.
Underwater colonies, more cities in the deserts, vertical farming w/ cheap electricity, improved desalinization processes, plasma arc waste disposal facilities to recycle waste into constituent atoms and molecules
>When the time runs out, and humanity has stripped earth from majority of it's accessable resources,
Define 'accessible.' Do you mean what technology we have currently? Because we still do have landfill mining, deep sea mining and all those currently-unprofitable abandoned mines.
>civilization will collapse, majority of the people will die, and humanity will be forever stuck on dark ages, since there will no longer be any viable resources for humanity to reach anywhere near it's former glory.
Unfounded pessimism.
>And remember, im not talking about going faster than light in a traditional sense, but get around it using a warpdrive, hyperdrive or whatever other theoretical loopholes there are.
Well until we get the required negative energy for Alcubierre drives I'm ruling out FTL.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.2918260]

>>2918255
Hmm, forgot my trip

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.2918277]

>Any theories on materia converters or 100% recycling or something?

Obviously not 100% because as >>2917476 mentioned, entropy. But this is close enough to 100% efficient recycling and manufacturing.

It's most certainly waste-free, unless you consider waste heat as actual waste! (And we're talking about a bit of hot steam, not anything actually hot)

http://www.molecularassembler.com/Nanofactory/DMS.htm
http://thenanoage.com/
http://www.dse.nl/~hkl/e_nano1.htm
http://thenanoage.com/molecular-manufacturing.htm

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.2918279]

>>2918277
CCM, here is a already successfully utilized way of recycling pretty much all materials.
>>2917971

[Anonymous No.2918291]

>>2918255

>Well until we get the required negative energy for Alcubierre drives I'm ruling out FTL.

Alcubierre's drive was proven impossible, Richard Obousy's warp drive is not yet deemed impossible, but yes that fucking negative energy.

But thank god there may be other approaches to FTL (i only mentioned warp drive for formality), my favourite is the hyperdrive presented by Heim-Dröscher Theory as, if it's predictions were to be correct, it might be done with today's technology. So far the prediction that a powerful fast spinning magnetic fields can produce an artificial gravity field seems to be correct.

http://www.esa.int/esaMI/GSP/SEM0L6OVGJE_0.html

Article ripped from newscientist (required registration for full view)
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6990323/Burkhard-Heim-Take-a-Leap-Into-Hyper-Space

And the man who stumbled upon this 'anomaly' in early 1990's, and to whose experiments the one done by ESA was.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Podkletnov

The anomalies were no mere gravitomagnetism, as the effects were millions of times more powerful than what should be possible by the established physics.

I think it deserves a LOT more testing. Well, i actually find it hard to believe it has'nt already been extensively tested by US military and it's contractors. What would be a better way to spend all that black budget.

[Anonymous No.2918299]

>>2918255

>Well until we get the required negative energy for Alcubierre drives I'm ruling out FTL.

Alcubierre's drive was proven impossible, Richard Obousy's warp drive is not yet deemed impossible, but yes that fucking negative energy.

But thank god there may be other approaches to FTL (i only mentioned warp drive for formality), my favourite is the hyperdrive presented by Heim-Dröscher Theory as, if it's predictions were to be correct, it might be done with today's technology. So far the prediction that a powerful fast spinning magnetic fields can produce an artificial gravity field seems to be correct.

http://www.esa.int/esaMI/GSP/SEM0L6OVGJE_0.html

Article ripped from newscientist (required registration for full view)
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6990323/Burkhard-Heim-Take-a-Leap-Into-Hyper-Space

And the man who stumbled upon this 'anomaly' in early 1990's, and to whose experiments the one done by ESA was based on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Podkletnov

The anomalies were no mere gravitomagnetism, as the effects were millions of times more powerful than what should be possible by the established physics.

I think it deserves a LOT more testing. Well, i actually find it hard to believe it has'nt already been extensively tested by US military and it's contractors. What would be a better way to spend all that black budget.

Shit, i tried restrict myself from going 'tinfoil', but still, it just works, and could potentially solve all the problems humanity may have, overnight (well, maybe not quite, but still).

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.2918301]

>>2918279

>CCM, here is a already successfully utilized way of recycling pretty much all materials.

The plasma arc is basically a little pair of rods to be put at the mouth of a molecular disassembler: The arcs dissociate molecules to a size that is proper for consumption by sorting pumps and molecular mills. The technology alone is very much useless except as a way of 'nullifying' waste.

[Anonymous No.2918312]

Well our solar system is full of these metals.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.2918314]

>>2918301
>The technology alone is very much useless except as a way of 'nullifying' waste.
How so? Can't separate the atoms out from each other? That doesn't sound right.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.2918326]

>>2918314

You'd need to put them in Samefag's centrifuge afterwards. Now that I think about it the molecular disassembler sounds a bit overkill.

Plasma arc + centrifuge = Good enough.

Though you're still going to need a molecular assembler if you want to turn powderized metals and plastics into something useful without using a huge industrial oven, whatever those are called.

[Anonymous No.2918340]

[Anonymous No.2918400]

>>2918326
I have been thinking about such ionised high temperature system for quite a while. What I couldn't figure out is how the fuck do you want to build centrifuge for 5000K? No material can stand it!
The only thing I was able to come up with was a mass spectrometer. Ionised superheated plasma is accelerated (just like in all particle accelerators and tokamaks with T= about 5000K so nothing THAT extremal), then separated via magnetic field and collected by brute force collisions and cooling.

I mean this would require bloody hell lot of energy - and I can assure you it won't give you too much energy back but rather take it (will be probably a very lossy power plant).

What I would like to ask how is it made in the mentioned "Arc waste disposal"? If you have any source with technical data about it (project or so). Since my googling wasn't successful enough.

[Anonymous No.2918603]

>>2918400
I have just looked at freepatents and found 5000+ patents on this topic.
Pity they are written in a ridiculous way. There are no equations concerning anything. Just some general bullshit about chambers some random circuits that are so general that it could be a TV as well... Honestly anyone knows anything closer to this area in a less than 100% vague and insanely long patents written by lawyers instead of engineers?

[Anonymous No.2920613]

bump