/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.2903845]

dear /sci/
I know this sounds like a joke but it isnt.

I'm fairly good at math. I have an A- in Calculus. But how do i become brilliant at math? What pushes you over that 91-93 percentage of understanding into 98-100?

[Anonymous No.2903858]

It's not about grades. Grades is just patience and dedication. If you want to become brilliant in math, you have to care about more than what the book tells you and seek the questions between its questions.

[Anonymous No.2903856]

>>2903845
Lots and lots of hard work.

[Anonymous No.2903867]

i guess that makes sense

[Anonymous No.2903927]

Innate mathematical ability

Feels bad man

[Anonymous No.2903939]

You don't. Some people are born with a brain that can intutivley understand higher level math concepts.

Obviously, you were not born that way. You cannot do anything to make your brain like that.

Just accept it.

[Anonymous No.2903945]

this >>2903856

this >>2903927 helps but isn't essential.

basically, the more innate ability you have, the less hard wok you'll have to do to get to an A+

[Anonymous No.2903960]

>>2903939
>>2903927

To an extent they are correct. Yet mostly you just need to work on underlying concepts and work.

I've always liked the notion that if you can derive everything you need, you fully understand it.

[Anonymous No.2903961]

>>2903927
>>2903939

Fucking cop-outs. Put enough hard work and you can contribute to the field. You may never be anything like Euler but you can still be "brilliant". Also having innate mathematical ability doesn't guarantee anything unless you work just as hard.

[Anonymous No.2903971]

>implying innate mathematical ability exists
>and it's not simply the result of being exposed to math at an early age

[Anonymous No.2903987]

Black? Forget math. Major in psychology, philosophy, history etc. instead.

White? Work VERY hard and you could achieve in real subjects like Math.

Asian? You're going to have no problems with math.

Jewish? Potential nobel prize / fields medalist.

[Anonymous No.2903988]

>>2903987

Middle Eastern?

[Anonymous No.2903990]

>>2903971

I'm a maths teacher, and no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't teach my dog basic addition.

[Anonymous No.2903992]

>>2903988

basically same as white

[Anonymous No.2904009]

>>2903960
>>2903961

Incorrect. Face it, some people are born with greater understandings of certain concepts. This is a will accepted and demonstrable fact.

The true math geniuses didn't make insights through hard work. And they didn't get lucky.

They have always been able to understand this stuff better than you just like there is some 8 year old in the world right now who understands music better than you ever could.

All of us are not born as blank slates with infinate potential. We have hardwired limitations beyond our control.

Deal with it and forget all that damaging self esteem programming that was ground in to you as a child.

[Anonymous No.2904026]

genius=10%inspiration+90%perspiration

[Anonymous No.2904037]

Trying to solve Bernoulli equation, I made the following consideration:

1. P1 = P2
2. Y1-Y2 = h
3. V2 = (V1*A1)/V2.

Then, I solved to V1 and the equation took this form.

V1 = A2*root((2*g)/(A1^2-A2^2))*h^(1/2).

Now I wanted to solve this equation has a differential equation where the dependent variable is h, V1=h’, and the independent variable is time=t. I tried by variable separation, integration factor (considering P(x) = 0), and by direction fields.

Can someone know how to solve this differential equation?

h’ = A2*root((2*g)/(A1^2-A2^2))*h^(1/2)

[Anonymous No.2904057]

>>2903987
>black
>forget math

This math Ph.D. disagrees

[Anonymous No.2904059]

This thread makes me feel bad man... :(

[Anonymous No.2904065]

>>2904009

>damaging self esteem programming

Yes, damaging. Damaging to everyone's ultimate goal of ending up a bitter, excuse-making failure like yourself.

[Anonymous No.2904082]

>>2903961
ITT: Fags who don't realize that to do math well, they just have to work hard (given they're not developmentally challenged or dyscalculic). Innate math ability can help, but that only represents less than a percent of the population (i.e. rare geniuses)--yet many more than that small percent can do math and even become mathematicians.

Listen to your god, Terry.

http://terrytao.wordpress.com/career-advice/does-one-have-to-be-a-genius-to-do-maths/

[Anonymous No.2904081]

>>2904009
Mathmaticians don't work hard? Man you're retarded. really fucking retarded. The fact is, some people are much better than others starting out at math. But that changes at a point. For most people, up until second year at undergrad isn't that hard, then 3rd and 4th year start requiring work, and you're working as hard as everyone else to get the concepts, because the concepts get a lot more complex. People who say that there are just born geniuses don't realize that people like einstein often do well because they can concentrate for weeks on end, and put all their time into the field

[High School Physics Student !!MbKwb4j4AJ9 No.2904085]

Studying.

Grades is all about studying and memorization. The people who get those marks aren't usually the kinds of people who are brilliant at math - most of the time, it's the people who study the most.
It's the people who remember every little thing that they are taught ONLY and apply it to the test EXACTLY the way they learned and no other way - it's those people that get 98-100.

That line of thinking got me from 80-85 in Grade 9-10 to 96-100 in 11 and 12. Reproduce ONLY what you're taught.

The 95-100 bracket is only for those who don't even make little or careless mistakes because they don't ask questions that leaves room for that.

Have you ever noticed that if you practice math, you get better at math?

Just like you can take a derivative of a derivative, try practicing HOW to practice. If your practice gets better, your math gets better, how you retain it gets better, and that'll push you into the 98-100 range.

[Anonymous No.2904096]

>>2904009

I tried to make it clear that I did believe in innate ability- that not all are born equal. But as I said, to simply give up your pursuit on anything because there's someone who can do it better is a cop-out. To use your music analogy, The Beatles, Chuck Berry, or any excellent popular musicians should have not bothered because some prodigy kid was better than them (In fact, there many musical greats had little to no formal understanding of music). It's senseless. Also, to disregard the enormous amount of work past geniuses had to put in because of their innate ability, is wrong. No matter how much aptitude you have in a particular field, without exposure and hard work, it's practically useless, and in many fields, such as Physics, there were plenty of brilliant physicists who showed no signs of innate ability during there younger years. So while I do agree with you about false self-esteem control people are taught, I just don't think someone should assume they don't have any potential because they did poorly on an artificial exam or some other asinine criteria. The only method to find out is to actually try- Look at Faraday.

[Anonymous No.2904107]

>>2904009
edgy underage detected

[Anonymous No.2904113]

>>2904082
this this this

[High School Physics Student !!MbKwb4j4AJ9 No.2904153]

Also, if P = NP, then everybody is equal in terms of computational ability.
Everyone can be Einstein, Mozart, etc

If not, some people have to work harder than others.

[Anonymous No.2904155]

>But how do i become brilliant at math?

Work hard. Don't just rely on rote learning, rote learning is good for understanding syntax, rules, tricks etc. but to be "brilliant" you need to add new knowledge to the field, and to add new knowledge, you need to be creative with the field, and to be creative in the field, you need to deeply understand the content. By understanding, I don't familiarity, I mean the concepts, ideas, representations, certain aspects that take years until they become internalized.

[Anonymous No.2904189]

Paul Erdos credited his mathematical ability to amphetamine.

[Anonymous No.2904203]

picture is very full of derp.

[Anonymous No.2904224]

To become brilliant in math, you need to go to work and, while on break, doodle a proof on the back of your receipt that has been bugging you for the past 3 days.

Leave that receipt in the breakroom for added lulz.

[Anonymous No.2904225]

OPs pic:

limit and series definition of e
eigenvalues / Laplace equation
Newtons law of gravitation
value of pi for a circle
functionals and the triangle inequality
Verhulst logistic model
differential of e
diagnosable matrices

I don't recognise / can't fucking read the rest

[Anonymous No.2904243]

>>2904225

Wanna go get some coffee?

[Anonymous No.2904262]

>>2904243

I drink tea :>

Also, there's a Lagrange Transform and Leibniz's rule too

[Anonymous No.2904322]

Some people are just better at math than others.
I am sure there are a few genetic/neurological abnormalities that help too - ability to vividly "visualise" problems and "see" the solution or a possible approach.
Also some people are able to manipulate numbers with little or no conscious effort. They are usually the same people who can retain vast amounts of information, again with little or no effort.
But in general, they are social retards.

[Anonymous No.2904402]

>>2904262
>tea

It could never work.

[Anonymous No.2904409]

>>2904065

Damanging in that you will never be able to work within your limitations, you will always fail trying to exceed them and feel good about yourself for failing because you will always be able to blame everyone else for your own fault. Because, after all, you are special.

>>2904082

Should have said "only hard work". But the OP is talking about being in that top teir. So to talk about just being "a" mathematician is totally retarded.

No amount of hard work is going to make you a top teir mathematician.

[Anonymous No.2904509]

>>2904402

Story of my life :(
Also, 2 sugars at a minimum.

[Anonymous No.2904569]

I lot of work. A lot of work

It's a widely held belief that people are naturally 'good' at math or music.

I think the author of the book 'outliers' surveyed the musicians from the UC berkeley conservatory of music and showed that there was a direction correlation between #hours of practice and success.

20-40 hours per week of practice = music teacher
40-60 hours per week of practice = session musician
80+ hours per week = radio city music hall

This was demonstrated at several others places..

I think people don't like to believe that truly 'talented' individuals really put in grueling hours of practice and the rest of us are just not as dedicated

[Anonymous No.2904652]

>>2904569

I don't think that ability can be pinned down to just one (linear) factor that you mention. Just as intelligence cannot be accurately portrayed (sorry IQ fags) by a single number.
I would also say that music is not a very good analogy to math, but nothing is I suppose.

With regards to music, I know someone with perfect pitch. They are able to listen to a piece of music once and remember pretty much everything about it - notes/chords, melody, key, instruments being played, effects used.
I have to listen to a piece several times before I can take all that stuff in, but for them it is more "natural".

But natural ability does not guarantee results. So a hard working student with a deep interest in the subject could produce remarkable (and original) material, whereas the naturally gifted person is happy to just get by on raw ability.

And then by implication, hard working and naturally gifted would be top tier.

[Anonymous No.2904699]

WE NEED THREAD CONTACT

>>>/b/323302964

[Anonymous No.2904717]

Make yourself interested in it. Just do math problems when you're bored.

[Anonymous No.2904727]

>>2904717
This. You know what teenage Feynman and Gauss did instead of vidya?

Math.

They actually liked it. Develop a passion for mathematics--so much so that you crave doing it. Then becoming brilliant is only a matter of time and effort.

[Anonymous No.2904730]

>>2904322
have you been spying on me? ):

I'm good at maths. Crazy good. Not quite IMO good but not far off. There's a couple of things I've noticed about people like me.

A large majority of them are autistic. Myself included. That in itself doesn't mean your imediately going to be a maths genius but I guess a lot of autistics have a tendency to be super logical and literal. But the main advantage I think, is hyperfocus or zoning.

I spend 90% of my time thinking about maths. The other 10% is probably spent thinking about chess or trying not to be a huge retard. Maths all day erryday. I also don't get distracted. I "zone" so to speak. Just sit and stare in to space or scribble for hours on end doing general maths shizz. Don't even notice the time going really. Cuz I enjoy it (:

So yeah. What was my point? Oh yeah.
1. You need to do maths all the time
2. Enjoy it. It's the best thing ever. And the more you enjoy it the more you want to do nothing else and the more you will math
3. Being autistic helps

Ask for help too. Anyone who is better than you or knows something you don't: ask ask ask. Just don't ask me cuz I'm crap at explaining because I just "see" it.

iTunes U is quite good for basic lectures (:

[Anonymous No.2904746]

>>2904730

Ja.

I am in a similar position, but likely nowhere near yourself. I can handle numbers well and retain information easily.
However I am mentally unstable and lazy.

Good times.

[Anonymous No.2904757]

become asian

[Anonymous No.2904771]

>>2904037
try Laplace/Fourier/Hilman transforms where h is the subject and g is separate

[Anonymous No.2904825]

Don't worry about it.

[Anonymous No.2904833]

>>2904730
I find it interesting and funny how the anons who claim themselves to be autistic seem like the most normal and well adjusted people on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.2904867]

>>2904730

I do this 'zoning'...and thinking. But I don't consider myself autistic. I'm just 'average' at math, too. I mean I've made A's in all my math-related courses but I've met professors who have went wayyyyyy over my head.

[Anonymous No.2904884]

>>2904833

People are deemed awkward by their behavior and the sum of their actions.
On the internet, and in particular 4chan, you are judged only by what you post.

Which is why (imo) a lot socially awkward people (and otherwise) find it easier to spend the majority of their time on the internet - they are valued based purely on their intellectual contributions.

[Anonymous No.2904889]

yeah, those fourier transforms....

Im taking senior level instrumental analysis class for my bachelors and my professor doesnt even want to expain the complexity of the bad motherfucker that is the Fourier Transorm. :l

[Anonymous No.2904922]

Autism helps because of the preponderance of grey matter that it gives you. Most geniuses were speculated to be somewhat autistic, Newton and Einstein. Mostly because they have the ability to devote all their concentration and effort into one niche subject.

Of course, this doesn't apply to all autists. Those on the worse end of the spectrum are relegated to being unable to change their diapers and unable to complete school.

[Anonymous No.2904931]

>>2904833
Autism is a lack of understanding of social and inter-personal norms tbh. So speaking to someone on an anonymous message board isn't going to prove anything either way - I feel perfectly comfortable talking to strangers online but it just doesn't seem to translate so smoothly to real life you know. I don't use it as an excuse or anything (okay, maybe I do a bit - but only in little things such as explainig why all my tops are green...lol) and I try my best for it not to be an issue. It's just nice to know why I'm different and it means I can start to get help for things I can't do as naturally as everyone else.

That said, it does annoy me when people complain of being autistic and arent because it mows my life even more difficult ):

[Anonymous No.2904952]

>>2903845
Anyone can become good at math through studying and hard work. But to become a "genius" it takes creativity. Breakthroughs in math aren't made through reading a textbook, they're created through ingenuity and understanding.

[Anonymous No.2904961]

Most people get discouraged with math because they think that it either comes to the immediately or it never comes to them. They're wrong. You have to work at it.

99.9% of people in math departments weren't "born to do math" or were Good Will Huntings. They are just regular humanoids who took up a subject and worked at it.

[Anonymous No.2904964]

>>2904867
I didn't mean that it made you autistic. Just that autistic kids are more prone to doing it.

There was a program on bbc4 a few weeks ago about the IMO and the selection process for the British team and it touches on this. Given that about 70% of people who make it through the training camps are somewhere notable on the spectrum.

That said the Chinese team in 2006 gained 6 full marks scores in the final. It's out of 36 if I remember correctly and most people are lucky to score ~14 (and these are the best mathematicians in the world even!)

Other examples include the STEP exam. Those who achieve an S (top grade) are more inclined to be autistic. Just because.

[Anonymous No.2904970]

Where's the line between OCD with impaired social skill (lack of friends and prefer it that way) + insistence on following rules/regulations and autism? Fucking confusing.

[Anonymous No.2904987]

>>2904922

They didn't have Autism. Einstein had plenty of friends, had a good sense of humour, had romantic relationships.

Newton was probably gay hence him seeming weird as he would have to keep that a secrete.

>>2904730

Maths isn't IMO. You might be able to do the aspie part of maths, but the part that requires creativity and finesse as opposed to brute force you will struggle like everyone.

Also, most geniuses don't work crazy hours. The top probably do like Perelman studies 24/7.

[Anonymous No.2904995]

>>2904964

That was biased as fuck. They focused on the aspie kids ignoring the normal kids. Most years the students haven't got autisms.

Also, most imo fags do shit maths. Only a few go on to actually do something worthwhile in maths.

[Anonymous No.2905005]

>>2904970
OCD relates to a need to organise the real world to keep control

Autism is like not being able to make sense of things. Too much information in your head and need to find something to focus on to make it make sense so you develop habits or find something to focus on that make it calmer. It's kind of a combination of everything being too bright loud and clear and also social norms being almost nonsensical and alien and no matter how hard you try it just doesn't work for you.

[Anonymous No.2905040]

>>2904987
But it is generally agreed that for their age those kids are damn good at maths. I couldn't think of another example that would be known to everyone given the demographic of /sci/. I think the creative ability is something that comes with maturity and experience and isn't creativity as such but you've just seen more so have more idea of have to perhaps approach a problem differently.

>>2904995
The point still stands. Most mathematicians, be they lecturers or students at top unis (like Cam or wherever) aren't "normal" and many of them (more than an average amount anyway) will be on the spectrum because of the nature of the environment

[Anonymous No.2905049]

>>2905005

Every time you elaborate, I get more confused.

See I was convinced I had autism (Asperger's) till I saw a behavioral psychologist for my DSPS (sleep) and he dispelled the notion that sleep problems were prevalent in Asperger people.

So I take it you have autism, yes? Or something similar? How do you know? What you just described:

>Too much information in your head and need to find something to focus on to make it make sense so you develop habits or find something to focus on that make it calmer.

applies so easily to my thoughts and math. If I don't have clearly defined rules, I can easily manipulate a problem/proof/formula. That manipulation might or might not make sense to someone who had clearly understood the boundaries.

Does that make sense? I don't have enough knowledge to constrict mathematical manipulation so I can easily go off on a

[Anonymous No.2905050]

>Measuring understanding with class percentile
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

[Anonymous No.2905099]

I never did any math beyond precalc/basic calc (derivtavies, integrals, etc.) in high school, then when I got to real analysis in college I was utterly decimated (not grade wise). Try reading it without an instructor. There were no rote problems to solve, but you had to memorize definitions and apply them to concepts waaaaay different than what was taught in the reading section. Think of being lost in a video game dungeon. THAT'S what learning math is like.

I don't know if I have any potential to go beyond graduate school, but let me tell you, I did not have innate ability. Reading analysis will make you cry if you do it yourself and have no ability/childhood in math. It's not med school "SO MUCH TO MEMORIZE" cry. No, it's the fact that you think you're going somewhere, but in reality you're wasting time going over the same concepts OVER AND OVER AGAIN because your proof was not rigorous enough. I would waste so much time in a book feeling like i'm going nowhere, whereas in something like physics or chemistry, I could read up many concepts and time = knowledge. In math, time =/= knowledge. Only rare epiphanies = knowledge, and with so much abstraction, you feel like you go nowhere. I am depressed when I realize that the time I spent try to solve problems that take hours upon hours to solve, I need more hours to solve problems in order to actually understand mathematics. Learning mathematics is like climbing mount everest with your bare hands, no tools, nothing.

But this was from a self taught perspective, which I think is important in grad school. I DID survive, amazingly enough, with a double degree on the side, and was even able to take grad courses before then. You just have to have a tremendous and intimidating amount of faith if you have no natural ability. So much faith and willpower. And never, I repeat, NEVER EVER feel guilty; only feel thankful you were able to spend so much time around these beautiful proofs.

[Anonymous No.2905109]

>>2905099
Also, btw, I am asian, and the only mathematians/students I've met who were comfortable with math were the ones whose parents pushed them in ELEMENTARY school. Somewhere in the world there might be an exception (ie ramanujan) but I hope OP feels better knowing most people, and there are thousands of mathematicians, did not start off with such gifts. yes, even those damn asians who seem to 'get it'. Most asians I knew were dull engineers who plug and chugged stuff, but were great with calculations. But many math students at my school were asians too.

[Anonymous No.2905125]

>>2905099
also, the 'self taught' part was because I self studied analysis before the class, and then studied royden during the actual class, so I had a head start. but when I started taking grad classes I had no head start anymore, and survived with good grades with my head beaten to a pulp only due to mathematical maturity.

[Anonymous No.2905149]

>>2905049
My mom did her PhD on Autism and worked with Autistic kids way before I was born. She said that it was always quite obvious but she often held back on giving a diagnosis because she felt she might be projecting. Apparently it got more pronounced as I got older and I went for some tests and stuff at the hospital and it indicated that I probably am. I dunno, I wasn't really paying attention at the time.

I'm sorry that my English is really shit. Language doesnt come easy for me tbh at least describing things and ideas doesn't anyway. I could probably draw a picture though. If normal people have straight lines for brains, autism makes you feel like the lines are all squiggly like mr messy. It took me fucking ages to realise that not everyone was like this so I might be wrong.

If you aren't sure, well you might as well get checked but if you don't know by now then it probably won't matter. I can't live on my own because I do silly things like forget to eat or go to bed (lol it's 2.38am) and it's probably not a good idea to let me near a cooker or small children/pets. Lol just kidding I'm not a psycho

As for the maths stuff. I dunno. If that gets the right answer than sure. I personally have no clue how I do half the stuff I do. I just read the question and can feel the answer or proof and can write it down with no real idea of where it comes from. It just FEELS right. Sometimes I might need to draw the graph in my head or something but it's usually pretty automatic. But I'm not saying I'm super amazing at maths. I'm good compared to my peers, who I know are good or we wouldnt be here, and I guess I might do stuff different idk. It just works in my head

[Anonymous No.2905291]

>>2905149

Thanks. =) I actually understand now.

[Anonymous No.2905338]

@Op:
A powerful computer algebra system.

And where it does not suffice, you read, learn and program so that it does suffice.
This is the way mankind already goes with maths, and it'll be the only one in which we'll not spend most time re-learning all of it with every generation.

[Anonymous No.2905438]

>>2905149
I think I am autistic

[Anonymous No.2905479]

>What pushes you over that 91-93 percentage of understanding into 98-100?
<span class="math">\ast[/spoiler] have no life
<span class="math">\ast[/spoiler] deny how useless it really is

[Anonymous No.2905721]

Be good at maths.
use your good maths skills to do something brilliant in the field of math
Be remembered as a math genius

[Anonymous No.2905734]

>>2903845
Write out your equations on the windows of your school.

Instant college acceptance.

[Anonymous No.2905771]

Math just exists to keep black people down