/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.2864009]

How did people go from hanging witches left and right to not believing in them at all?

[Anonymous No.2864018]

Science.

[Anonymous No.2864023]

Same way we did it with blacks.

[Anonymous No.2864025]

It's humans, I ain't gotta explain shit.

[Anonymous No.2864053]

Very funny.

[Anonymous No.2864065]

The steam powered train made the common folk realize the power of science and engineering by making the world a much smaller place. Organized religion has never fully recovered from that.

[Anonymous No.2864068]

cultural, not intellectual
pic related

[Anonymous No.2864093]

>>2864065

DURRRR. The steam train came 100 fucking years after the last witch persecutions.

[Anonymous No.2864098]

>>2864093
In Europe, or North America?

[Anonymous No.2864100]

>>2864065

Holy fucking retard.

[Anonymous No.2864123]

>>2864065

they stopped burning witches hundreds of years before steam trains.

[Anonymous No.2864130]

>>2864065
He'll be fine. He'll just walk that off.

[Anonymous No.2864164]

Mainly due to a huge schism between Catholicism and Puritanical religion which meant that, amongst other things, the Catholic Church (which was the go-to in terms of obtaining sanctions for a majority of witch trials) had very little power.

However, that doesn't mean people stopped sending other people to death on charges of being a "witch". The practice perpetuates to this day in SE Asia and various parts of Africa, where Christianity and later Islam spread through missionaries. Some are legitimate grievances such as ritual killings that is described as "witchcraft" from a lack of understanding in criminal psychology, others are all-encompassing "we just really hate that fucker" vote-off-the-island scapegoat style killings.

We still perform witch-hunts these days. We just call them terrorists.

[Anonymous No.2864168]

>>2864093
>The classical period of witchhunts in Europe and North America falls into the Early Modern period or about 1480 to 1750

>The first full scale working railway steam locomotive was built by Richard Trevithick in the United Kingdom and, on 21 February 1804

[Anonymous No.2864174]

>>2864164

> We still perform witch-hunts these days. We just call them terrorists.

[a strong ai No.2864184]

Most people, if everyone around them tells them to burn witches or jews, and they listen and watch people play drums and sing and have technological displays about burning witches and jews, they are going to be convinced they should burn witches or jews.

The people who don't fall for that are the one's who don't define truth as social convention because the need to understand their surroundings was shown to be important to them early on.

[Anonymous No.2864185]

>Implying that people are not being accused of witchcraft and being burned, stoned, drowned, and such this century.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dae_1236854361

[Anonymous No.2864199]

>>2864185

It's like I'm watching a bunch of apes fight amongst one another. How horrid. And we want to HELP these people? Is this a common practice in Africa? Please tell me it's not. It's making me racist.

[Anonymous No.2864213]

>>2864199
>And we want to HELP these people?
Christians did help them by spreading their word of god.
Oh wait that does not look like help to me, it looks like a bunch of poor uneducated people being given a pile of religious Christian bullshit then just acting on what they have been told to do.

[Anonymous No.2864227]

>>2864174
I like you.

[Anonymous No.2864222]

>>2864174
Have you heard the government's grievance list of what they define a terrorist?

Terrorism is an all-encompassing charge that automatically nullifies your rights. Just like witchcraft, you don't even get to find out exactly what kind of terrorist charges are brought against you. You are denied the right of habeas corpus. You are denied the right of legal representation in most. The prosecution for terrorism in every sense of the word mirrors what people used to bring to other people for witchcraft.

[Anonymous No.2864231]

because under sharia witches are to be stoned

[Anonymous No.2864237]

>>2864185

This is a direct result of the american missionaries that have brainwashed african populations. If you want to see what kind of world we all would live in if the creationists got their way, just take a look at africa where people are being attacked like this over things like witchcraft, homosexuality or just not believing in god.

[Anonymous No.2864243]

>>2864009
>How did people go from hanging witches left and right to not believing in them at all?
People still believed in them through the time where there were very few witch hunts.

The witch hunts themselves stopped mainly because of the evolution of prosecution procedures and standards of evidence - the judges and lawyers arguing the cases came to realize that they were putting innocent people to death, and thats mainly what stopped the hunts.

[Anonymous No.2864244]

>>2864222

> Have you heard the government's grievance list of what they define a terrorist?

I don't care how your government, which I presume to be the government of the US, defines what a terrorist is and how a terrorist is treated. The definition of terrorist is 'one who uses violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims', whereas the definition of witch ranges from an 'old, ugly hag' to 'a person believed to have evil magical powers', but none of the definitions of a witch is the same as the definition of terrorist, ergo, a witch is not a terrorist and vice versa.

[Anonymous No.2864251]

>>2864174

This is so true it made me lol and my room mate looked at me funny...

[Anonymous No.2864252]

>>2864244
Men were equally charged on Witchcraft as well, and the specific charge for Witchcraft is that the person causes mass harm upon the community as an agent of Satan. Witches were considered to be agents of pestilence, famines as a result of bad harvest, any number of things that affected a large community. People didn't just get rid of old hags for witchcraft.

[Anonymous No.2864262]

>>2864252

Point being?

[Anonymous No.2864274]

>>2864262
Witchcraft = terrorism as far as the legal aspect is concerned. We shouldn't act superior to brown people just because we decided to go with a name change for our imaginary demonic scapegoats.

[Anonymous No.2864281]

>>2864244
you are a fucking idiot, you completely missed the point that guy made.ill spell it out for you; both are thought to cause damage to others(true for terrorists), in both situations innocent people are also prosecuted, both don't get any rights, both are prosecuted with no regard to the justice system.

[Anonymous No.2864286]

>>2864274
But terrorism isn't imaginary.

[Anonymous No.2864288]

We burned so many witches that they all died before reproducing. we keep the catholics around so that if we missed a latent witch gene some where or we re-evolve witches, they can save us again. Some people think this is a waste of time. thats why in religious circles they talk about evolution all they time.
there are those in the church who doubt evolution, so they think, we got all the witches its time for the church to disband. Others think we could evolve new witches so we need the church around.
this is why the cristfags come to /sci/ to ask about evolution.

[Anonymous No.2864291]

>>2864252
Were they charged with being warlocks, wizards or sorcerers?

[Anonymous No.2864317]

>>2864288
Burning witches was never related to Catholicism. Both being witches and burning witches are traditions from pre-christian European Paganism. 99% of witch burnings were done by secular courts, not religious authorities.

[Anonymous No.2864353]

>>2864317
Stop saying that. Someone has been feeding you a pile of bullshit.

[Anonymous No.2864372]

>>2864353

You surprised me there.

[Anonymous No.2864384]

>>2864291
I'd like more, please

[Anonymous No.2864392]

>>2864317
That really is total bullshit.

[Anonymous No.2864391]

>>2864353

Be fair with the guy:

1. The Spanish Inquisition was subject to the Kings of Spain, not the Church.
2. It mostly burned Jews and heretics, not witches.

[Anonymous No.2864396]

>>2864384
No you don't. It's sad.

[Anonymous No.2864398]

>>2864274
I agree that the legal aspect is remarkably similar, but the analogy is quite lacking so I wouldn't continue it's usage.

[Anonymous No.2864405]

>>2864396
I like sad things. They remind me that my life isn't so bad and I feel better.

[Anonymous No.2864423]

>>2864353

HERPA DURRR.

The Spanish Inquisition was a court. They ALWAYS tried to convert the heretics. They did NOT conduct the (witch) burnings themself, they always redirected the heretics to regular courts when they did not want to renounce their believe. The regular courts conducted the burnings.

TL;DR It wasn't the (religious) inquisition court that actually burned the heretics.

[Anonymous No.2864425]

>>2864286
So, how many of these terrorists have we caught compared to the gallons of liquid dumped at airport bins in a blind attempt to ward off "terrorists" who may carry "liquid explosives" on to planes?

>>2864317
Back in the days, there was this thing called the Holy Roman Empire. The Pope was the theoretical ruler of all Chirstendom and the Kings being the liege of the Pope, and paying taxes accordingly. Basically, people believed in the sovereignity of a king because the Church (and therefore God's word) sanctioned it. Hence the Crusades, hence the witch burnings, hence Charles VIII starting up a new church when the Pope won't grant him a divorce. You can read a complex background of this in the story of William Tell, which is actually more than the story of a man who shot the apple balanced on his son's head, and in fact is about 80% political diatribe on the separation of Church and State.

[Anonymous No.2864428]

[Anonymous No.2864441]

>>2864425
Why did I say Charles, I meant Henry.

[Anonymous No.2864450]

>>2864423
You said that...

>Burning witches was never related to Catholicism.

... and this is just plain false. The witch investigations and trials generally involved members of Christian churches and Christian dogma. Whether the base belief in witches preceded Christianity is completely irrelevant to the fact that Christian doctrines were used to justify the burnings.

[Anonymous No.2864452]

>>2864244
>The definition of terrorist is 'one who uses violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.
Not exactly. If that were the case, the vast majority of all governments and politicians would be considered terrorists.

[Anonymous No.2864479]

>>2864452

[Anonymous No.2864482]

>>2864452
Well, you see, it's like Joan of Arc. They're not terrorists because they're considered winners. USA is a terrorist nation to Afghanistan. Australians are genocidal white supremacists. Israel is a complete and utter dick.

[Anonymous No.2864486]

>>2864423
The Spanish Inquisition was Catholic, and it tortured a helluva lot of people, many of whom died under torture.

[Anonymous No.2864491]

>>2864479
The UN Security Council's definition is more comprehensive:

"criminal acts, including against civilians, committed with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury, or taking of hostages, with the purpose to provoke a state of terror in the general public or in a group of persons or particular persons, intimidate a population or compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act, which constitute offences within the scope of and as defined in the international conventions and protocols relating to terrorism, are under no circumstances justifiable by considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or other similar nature,"

[Anonymous No.2864517]

>>2864286
Terrorism isn't imaginary to you because you saw a bunch of terrible things happen, after which people told you it was the work of "terrorists", and therefore you went along with the idea that if it was not the work of terrorists, the terrible events would not be real anymore.

Well, the black death was real. The bad harvest was real. The practice of usury amongst Jewish people was real. To people who are told that this is a result of witchcraft at work, witchcraft is just as real to them.

Terrorism and Witchcraft are both imaginary concepts. The Taliban doesn't want to be a powerbroker in the US Congress by blowing up buildings any more than a witch wants to make all the village calves be born with multiple hooves by poisoning the village well. I know it's fun and easy to make fun of people back in the old days because fucking magnets how do the work, but for the most part we always seem to believe in the same old stupid shit our forefathers did.

[Anonymous No.2864532]

>>2864274

>doesn't know the difference between being accused of paranormal powers and being accused of killing civilians

[Anonymous No.2864535]

>>2864450
Everyone was a member of the Catholic church. That doesn't mean that witch trials were a Catholic phenomenon. It was a phenomenon is civil law.

[Anonymous No.2864551]

>>2864517
If you don't believe the Taliban exists or wants to kill people, or beat and rape girls who go to school, or beat people who listen to music, then you are an idiot.

[Anonymous No.2864562]

>>2864517
>Terrorism isn't imaginary to you because you saw a bunch of terrible things happen, after which people told you it was the work of "terrorists"
No, terrorism isn't imaginary, because it can be demonstrated to exist, and unlike witchcraft, I myself could even practice terrorism if I wanted to.

>I know it's fun and easy to make fun of people back in the old days because fucking magnets how do the work, but for the most part we always seem to believe in the same old stupid shit our forefathers did.
Seems like you've already married this retarded analogy, so it's probably pointless to argue against it anyway, but just to be clear, theories related to acts of terrorism are falsifiable, witchcraft isn't, and there's your fucking difference.

[Anonymous No.2864571]

Idle thoughts.
People started to require evidence. Once the number of people being executed around you gets to a high enough number people start to think they might be next. You start to see that the mob is not good at dispensing the churches justice, because the mob is easily turned. The law makers themselves start to fear the mob because tomorrow it might be them on the stake.

[Anonymous No.2864580]

>>2864535
>That doesn't mean that witch trials were a Catholic phenomenon.
A Catholic phenomenon? I said that, contrary to your initial claim, Christian clergy and doctrine *did* play roles in the witch trials, and that's it. I don't know if this makes it a Catholic phenomenon, but then again, the actual, historical causes of the witch craze are pretty nebulous anyway, so I wouldn't want to take any definitive position on this.

[Anonymous No.2864599]

>>2864551
Oh Taliban exists. So does blackwater. Guess which one gets called a terrorist organisation and which one gets called a mercenary for hire organisation when both perform the same role.
>>2864562
Love to see how your faith in terrorism will uphold the day when some disgruntled coworker outs you as a terrorist.You only believe "terrorism" is real because you firmly also believe that you will never be charged as a terrorist. If we actually applied the standards of terrorism as it applies, USA should be the first country to be nuked.

[Anonymous No.2864604]

>>2864562
dude i think his analogy is that "terrorism" is an idea that we apply to others. ( i seriously doubt members of the Taliban consider them selves terrorists)
And you can practice witchcraft therefor it exists. (witchcraft exists, although the desired effects of practicing it dont religion.jpg)
that people are falsely (and occasionally truthfully) accused of both and instantly treated as guilty also true.
we as a populous react with fear to the "unknown other amongst us"
thats the correlation.

[Anonymous No.2864613]

>>2864551
Also, the Taliban does not beat or rape girls who go to school. Ordinary people who live in a violent country and sees everyone else as their prey and/or enemy do. Next you will be telling me that the Taliban drowns a kitten every time you masturbate.

[Anonymous No.2864618]

>>2864599
>USA should be the first country to be nuked.
The Bomb can go fuck itself. I'd be happy if someone arrested Bush though, as every UN member is obliged to.

[Anonymous No.2864631]

The witches got organized.

[Anonymous No.2864641]

>>2864631
>why not?
Exactly, why not?

[Anonymous No.2864648]

>>2864641

[Anonymous No.2864655]

>>2864613
No, they don't drown kittens. But they beat girls who go to school (sometimes rape them), the beat people who try to teach girls schools. They beat people who listen to music or dance. They beat women who don't cover their faces in public or who are seen with a non-related male. They blow up ancient Buddhist relics just for the fuck of it. For more information, kindly pick up a newspaper.

[Anonymous No.2864656]

>>2864648
words are a way of implanting ideas in anothers mind, .. poor profX doesn't see that his skill is just being good at persuasion.

[Anonymous No.2864657]

>>2864618
For what?

[Anonymous No.2864659]

>>2864580
No they didn't. 98% of which trials had NO involvement by clergy.

[Anonymous No.2864664]

>>2864648
Meh, the procedure would improve over time.

[Anonymous No.2864671]

>>2864656
He has a 100% success rate, and doesn't need words. He's dangerous, and should be killed.

[Anonymous No.2864747]

>>2864599
>You only believe "terrorism" is real
No, I already told you rather explicitly why I believe terrorism to be real. Stop inventing my position, you strawmanning fuck, and present some actual arguments for yours. You could start by falsifying the acts (and the very existence) of this lovely organization:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction

Terrorism is more than "lol taliban is coverup 4 rockefeller-funded eugenics, open ur eyes sheeple!".

[Anonymous No.2864756]

>>2864604
>dude i think his analogy is that "terrorism" is an idea that we apply to others. ( i seriously doubt members of the Taliban consider them selves terrorists)
And my point is that terrorism, however blurred the term may have become in recent years, still refers to a very real concept, whereas witchcraft, as defined by the witch hunters, has *never* existed. It was *always* paranoia. *No one* has ever been rightfully accused of committing crimes using witchcraft. This is what makes it a completely worthless analogy.

And just for the record, there certainly are terrorist organizations who refer to themselves as such. The aforementioned RAF is one example.

[Anonymous No.2864762]

>>2864164
>SE Asia and various parts of Africa
Don't forget the Arab world:
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/11/24/saudi-arabia-witchcraft-and-sorcery-cases-rise