/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.2863290]

/sci/,
What the fuck is electricity?

The movement of electrons?
An energy field created by the movement of electrons?
Magic?

[Anonymous No.2863292]

>>2863290

The first one. Everything else happens as a result

[Anonymous No.2863296]

>>2863292
So then the electrons are the power source? Or is the field the power source?

[Anonymous No.2863297]

>>2863290
The movement of charged particles

(don't nessicalry have to be electrons, however the electricity that the common man uses is all electrons)

\thread

[Anonymous No.2863309]

>>2863296
You could consider either the power source, it depends on what you are taking as the more fundemental entity.

[Anonymous No.2863313]

>>2863296

The movement of electrons is caused due to 'excitation'. In metals, electrons can move easily from atom to atom. Energy is imparted to give them a kick, and then they cascade like a stream of particles. This creates a magnetic field, which arises from a moving electric field.

[Anonymous No.2863319]

>>2863313
So then the movement of electrons creates a magnetic field as well as an electric field?

>>2863309
Please, elaborate.

[Anonymous No.2863323]

>>2863296
the power source is the potential energy of the electrons that is lost during the moving of a higher potential to a lower potential.
the working mechanisms here require you to learn about magnetism caused by moving charges etc.
I would keep things classical, no quantum stuff, as this will surely fuck with your understanding.
classical is good enough for nearly all daily phenomena...

[Anonymous No.2863335]

>>2863323
>no quantum stuff, as this will surely fuck with your understanding
The only reason I am even interested in science is to fuck with my understanding.

Lets hear it.

[Anonymous No.2863347]

>>2863319
>So then the movement of electrons creates a magnetic field as well as an electric field?

An electric field is created by any charged particle, it does not have to be in motion. The movement of a charged particle creates a mangetic field.

>Please, elaborate

In actual physics, "qunatum field theory", the fundmental objects are "fields". We say that the particles we see are just exicataions in the "field". This system of physics accurately descirbes all charged particle phenomina (classcial and quantum). If we however take the "particles" as the fundmenatl obejcts creating "fields", we are not able to describe quantum phenomina, only classical shit. Hence, the actual things things that exist are the "fields" (not the ones you are fimailar with though).

[Anonymous No.2863365]

>>2863347
\thread

[Anonymous No.2863374]

>>2863347
...Fields create particles?

[Anonymous No.2863399]

>>2863374
Yep.

The "particles" are just certian excitations in the "fields" (again these are not the kinda fields you are familar with).

[Anonymous No.2863405]

Ok. Entry level shit here, but could someone explain to me Ohm's law and apply it. No one ever tells me why, just what, and so I need once again, for some anon to deliver and spread the understanding.

[Anonymous No.2863407]

>>2863399

[Anonymous No.2863418]

>>2863405
>Ohms law

WTF? An equation is V = I*R
That is possibly the easier equation ever!
Do you not understand basic algebra?

[Anonymous No.2863421]

>>2863405
Do you not know algebra?
What is the problem you are having?

[Anonymous No.2863426]

>>2863418

Yes, I know what it is. Fucks sake.

But why does it work that way. Why does an increase in voltage result in a loss of resistance. What is happening to the 'electrons'

[Anonymous No.2863442]

>>2863426
>Why does an increase in voltage result in a loss of resistance

WTF? Why are you just making up shit? V=I*R doesn't imply that nonsense. DO YOU NOT KNOW HOW TO READ A FUCKING BASIC ALGEBRAIC EQUATION?

HOW ARE YOU ARRIVING AT SUCH SHITTY CONCLUSIONS? How old are you? 12? 14? (If so I am sorry)

[Anonymous No.2863446]

>increase in voltage result in a loss of resistance

Not so. It results in an increase of the current. Resistors depending on voltage (VDR) are a very special case.

[Anonymous No.2863451]

>>2863442
Anyway,

Say an object has a resistance R (this is a physical property of the object, based of its materials and geometry, for the most part).

If I run a current through that object, I, then the voltage difference measured across the object will be V.

V = I * R

[Anonymous No.2863452]

>>2863290
Feynman on "Why?" questions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMFPe-DwULM

[Anonymous No.2863456]

>>2863442

I could play the lolitrollu card, but instead I'm going to be honest and admit I made a mistake. Blame late nights and bad teachers.

[Anonymous No.2863458]

>>2863446

that's not correct. I'm going to assume that the dude is talking about increasing voltage in a constant power supply, eg transforming electricity for transportation. I'm really fuzzy on the specifics, but basically, V = IR, so, if you increase voltage, current decreases, therefore R must increase (just look at the formula faggot).

[Anonymous No.2863460]

>>2863426
>V = IR
>V α R
>increase in voltage result in a loss of resistance
uhh

The "voltage drop" across a circuit element (that is, change/loss in potential) is proportional to the resistance that element presents. Consider "resistance" to be like the difficulty the electrons experience moving through the electric field imposed by the power source; they might hit lots of atoms in the wire like trying to move through a crowded place, or the wire might be really thin and force the electrons near eachother - from these collisions you'll see a loss of electrical potential energy from the electrons as expelled vibrational heat energy (perhaps of the copper atoms/lattice).

So, as you can see, loss of potential due to resistance, where the constant of proportionality is current. V=IR.

[Anonymous No.2863461]

Not OP and this may be a stupid question but can V ever be negative?

[Anonymous No.2863465]

>>2863458
>V = IR, so, if you increase voltage, current decreases, therefore R must increase

NO! DOES NO ONE KNOW HOW TO READ AN BASIC EQUATION? WTF /SCI/?

GOD FUCKING DAMMIT!

[Anonymous No.2863474]

>>2863461
Yes. V is actually the "difference in volatge" between two points. So depending on how you choose your systems (what is positive and negative, and which way you take the difference) you can measure a negative V.

[Anonymous No.2863476]

>>2863458
Jesus christ I think that post gave me cancer

[Anonymous No.2863478]

>>2863290

[Anonymous No.2863480]

>>2863474
Interesting. Thanks good sir.

[Anonymous No.2863482]

>>2863458

[Anonymous No.2863483]

>>2863474

But really it's just a positive voltage flowing the other way?

On a side relating note, I think I've found a new way to troll /sci/

[Anonymous No.2863484]

>>2863458
WTF?

[Anonymous No.2863496]

>>2863492

[Anonymous No.2863494]

>>2863458

You are right (sorry, but I don't youtube). What you need here is the relation between power, voltage and current. Note that a SMPS is an active device that regulates the current according to the input voltage as well as the output power. So Pout=Uin*Iin (ignoring losses), and for constant Pout and increasing Uin the current will decrease. This is not a property of a resistor as such but it can be described as effective resistance.

[Anonymous No.2863492]

>>2863483
You found that making any posts that are not completely exacting and precise makes sci rage like a 4 year old that got told no to that toy on the shelf?

[Anonymous No.2863493]

>>2863483
Yes, but's thats what it would be by definition. Postive current flowing one way, is the same thing as negative current flowing backwards. They are the exact same thing.

Your "left direction" is the same thing as the "right direction" of some one facing you, right?

[Anonymous No.2863502]

>>2863458

A constant current power supply will vary voltage (V) according to the load (R) in order to keep current (I) steady.

A constant voltage power supply provides a steady voltage (V) and does fuck all about controlling current (I) to the load (R) aside from maybe a fuse or breaker in the event that the draw exceeds the supply's specifications. The load will be rated for a certain input voltage and will draw the current it needs to operate at that voltage.

[Anonymous No.2863500]

>mfw I make my own power supply for a 1W laser diode

[Anonymous No.2863503]

>>2863496
YOUR ANGER ONLY MAKES ME MORE AMUSED!

[Anonymous No.2863504]

>>2863290
KISS ME

[Anonymous No.2863512]

>>2863503
I WILL FUCKING FIND YOU, YOU FUCKING BITCH! AND BUY YOU ROSES AND TAKE YOU OUT FOR A NICE DINNER! (AND MAYBE A FUCKING MOVIE). WE WILL ENJOY OUR TIME TOGETHER!!!!!

[Anonymous No.2863517]

>>2863512
THAT WOULD BE GOOD. I JUST GOT OUT OF A BAD RELATIONSHIP WITH MY BOYFRIEND!

[Anonymous No.2863519]

>>2863290
I WANNA WALK ON YOUR WAVELENGTH AND BE THERE WHEN YOU VIBRATE

[Anonymous No.2863524]

>>2863517

[Anonymous No.2863529]

>>2863519
OP here.
That song has actually been stuck in my head all fucking night.

WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK.

[Anonymous No.2863536]

>>2863529
well it is a catchy song.
Also, this thread is a WIN! LMFAO

[Anonymous No.2863546]

>>2863536
Not really. I still don't have a full explanation as to what electricity is, and my entire understanding of the universe was flip turned upside down.

I blame the public education system.

[Anonymous No.2863549]

\jewcommand{\t}[1]{\displaystyle{#1 \atop {#1~~#1}}} \t{\t{\t{\t{\t{\t{\t{\triangle}}}}}}}

[Anonymous No.2863554]

>>2863546
Well, what is troubling you my son? What questions do you need answered?

[Anonymous No.2863569]

>>2863546
Well?

[Anonymous No.2863589]

>mfw /sci/ is getting trolled over Ohm's law

[Anonymous No.2863599]

>>2863569
Give me a minute, I may have to use pictures.

So as electrons move through a conductor a magnetic field and electrical field are created, right?

For all intensive purposes lets just assume this wire is one atom thick.

[Anonymous No.2863601]

>>2863452
That vid was awesome. Favourited.

[Anonymous No.2863605]

>>2863599
>So as electrons move through a conductor a magnetic field and electrical field are created, right?

No. The electric field is not created by the moving electrons, it's what MAKES the electrons move.

[Anonymous No.2863606]

>>2863599
>intensive purposes

>captcha: Jews, usigat

[Anonymous No.2863618]

>>2863599
You cannot assume the wire is one atom thick. If the wire was so small, it could not be desribed by classical electromagnetics. You would need quantum field theory.

[Anonymous No.2863619]

>>2863605
So the electrical field charges the electrons which causes them to move to the next atom in the chain in order to maintain equilibrium?

Or does it charge the atom and repel the electron?

[Anonymous No.2863634]

>>2863619
NO, YOU = FAIL

[Anonymous No.2863641]

<div class="math">\nabla{}\cdot \vec{E}= \frac{\rho }{\varepsilon _{0}}</div>

This equation means that the SOURCE of electric fields are charges, if theres a charge, there will be an electric field. When the changes ae moving we call that a current and it creates a magnetic field associated to a electric field that changes with time

[Anonymous No.2863642]

>>2863634
THEN WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON WITH THESE ELECTRONS?

[Anonymous No.2863648]

>>2863641

But also we dont need a charge to have a electric field, when that happens we call that shit electromagnetic wave, the magnetic field feeds the electric one and viceversa, totally mindblowing

[Anonymous No.2863682]

>>2863641
Okay. So the charge is the source of the electric field.

When the charge is applied to a conductive atom with loose electrons, the electrons are repelled because the atom is charged. These lose electrons move to the next conductor that is not charged.

Something like that?

[Anonymous No.2863698]

>>2863682

Just imagine current like a flow of water, the water flow is a flow of electrons through some material. At atomic level it gets complicated, for example, conductive materials like metals have a cloud of electrons around them, when you apply a electric field the electrons are attracted towards it, they start moving in one direction until they stop in the edge.

You can also create a current with a difference of potential. Think of a dam, water falls because theres a difference of height, same with electrons. Thats the idea of conductors, a material that allows charge to move inside it

[Anonymous No.2863717]

>>2863698
Something like this?

[Anonymous No.2863740]

>>2863642
So, charges are the sources that generate Electric field. They set up this field that other charges see and are influenced by/in. If a charge happens to have velocity, it will also set up a magnetic field. Only other charges with velocity will see/be influenced by this field. When I say a charge is influenced by a field, I mean that it experiences a force in any direction that will lower its electrical potential energy in that field (like a mass being influenced by a gravity field, and feeling a force in a direction that lowers its gravitational potential energy in that field).

In a wire, a power supply sets up an electric field (using charges) which the electrons (possessing charge themselves) in the wire, loosely bound to their metal atoms and free to move as they are, feel. They move to lower their energy in this field (like a ball rolling down a hill, they convert potential energy to kinetic). When they arrive at a resistor, or other circuit element, they lose this kinetic energy (in collisions, say) as heat energy (or, if the circuit element is a light bulb, as heat and light).

As they move, they also set up a magnetic field which you would detect around the wire.

[Anonymous No.2863742]

>>2863717

Hmm, probably not, forget about atoms, just think of positive and negative charges and how they interact. Keep in mind that a normal atom has no net charge because its got as many electrons as protons.

[Anonymous No.2863745]

>>2863648
You need a charge to start the wave, though.

[Anonymous No.2863759]

>>2863682
No. What keeps the electrons in the metal is the fact that the metal atoms are charged, but *oppositely*. Opposite charges lower their energy by coming together. This is why electrons hang around nucleii to form atoms, or multiple nucleii to form chemical bonds. In the case of a metal, though, the electrons are in a sense loosely bound, so they're free to motor around on the surface of the metal, if you like. So if we set up an electric field over a wire (perhaps by having a whole lot of positive charge on one end and negative on the other, so that the electrons will be attracted to one and and repelled away from the other, there will be a net "drift" velocity of electrons down the wire under that field, while being contained in the metal.

[Anonymous No.2863806]

>>2863740
Think of charge like another physical property. Objects that posses the property of mass generate and are influenced by gravity fields. Objects that posses the property "charge" generate and are influenced by gravity fields. In both cases, these objects experience a force due to an energy gradient that leads to them having a velocity in a direction (in electric fields, we call this "difference in potential" between two points; in gravity fields, on Earth, we might call it "difference in height"). In a circuit we set up an electric field over the ends of a wire so that electrons loosely held (by little, smaller electric fields generated by charged protons in the atomic nucleii) on a track of metal atoms move to lower their energy and in doing so acquire velocity (that is, kinetic energy). If we can put something in front of them so that they slam into it, like a rock hitting the ground and releasing sound and heat energy and release that velocity-energy as light or heat, it can be useful. This is what resistors, or lights, or speakers are.

There are some differences, of course. There are two kinds of charge and only one kind of mass. The two types of charge simply act oppositely in electric fields, and we decided to call them positive and negative for that reason.

[Anonymous No.2863808]

>>2863806
Second line: *electric fields