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2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/sci/ - Science & Math

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2860632 No.2860632 [Reply] [Original]

When is the international community going to get off their asses and start imposing laws to control the rampant overpopulation that's killing millions every year due to starvation?

The Earth obviously has limited resources and we're well over the limit. Right now the ruling governments don't give a shit because more people means more money for them even if the trade-off is poorer living conditions for the working force under them.

It's a sad sight when a country like China has the most advanced social policy around.

>> No.2860640

I agree. Overpopulation is the unmentioned catastrophe.

>> No.2860648

The Earth is not overpopulated.

http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_at_state.html

>> No.2860650

Because religious fuckheads think it's trampling their God-given freedom and the governments are afraid of their hurtful picket signs.

Just invest in food commodities and ignore it.

>> No.2860654

>>2860648
You've obviously never been to Africa.

>> No.2860661

>>2860654
no one cares about Africa.

As for over-population. The developed world has remained at a fairly sustainable controlled growth. It's the developing world that is sky-rocketing out of control.

>> No.2860659

>>2860654
>Ignore video
>Keep talking out of your ass
I hate this place.

>> No.2860675

>>2860661

> It's the developing world that is sky-rocketing out of control.

Except that it isn't.

>> No.2860677

>overpopulation
>overpopulation
>Mfw
There is no overpopulation.
There is enough food to feed everyone.
We are not doing so because of capitalism and greed.

Also China is not cripled with a system where the stupid have a vote.
It could turn into one, but it is not one currently.

>> No.2860688

>>2860659
I watched it, it showed that third-world countries are learning to quit spitting out babies and to control overpopulation. That doesn't mean it's still not a problem in Africa. The Congo was even in his dataset to prove my point about you never going to Africa. Local overpopulation is a huge problem there.

>> No.2860694
File: 60 KB, 640x447, World Population Growth to 2050.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2860694

>>2860675

>> No.2860695

It's third world countries that are exploding.

The mixture of religion, foreign aid, and medical advancements kind of screw people.

God is a masterful troll "Oh, you guys got medicine down? improved your lifespan? Oh, well now the shitty countries who don't have any means to control themselves without outside interference have 300% more people live to breeding age. That'll teach you fuckers not to get uppity."

>> No.2860701

If overpopulation didn't exist you wouldn't see rampant desertification across the globe caused by people planting more than the land can provide.

>> No.2860713

>>2860677

You're fucking stupid.

Capitalism is what managed to produce enough wealth to prevent chinas growth form increasing more, it curbs the growth of first world countries.

your plan would involve giving food to every shitty country and fuel a population explosion for no reason other than it felt good at the time.

>> No.2860714

>>2860677
You are evil and/or dumb. No wonder you like China's political system.

>> No.2860718

The states was right to release AIDS to africa.

forward planning, that.

>> No.2860717

>>2860694
The curve would be a lot flatter if we just let them kill themselves instead of sending constant aid to support their unsustainable idiocy.

AIDS instead of aid is my motto for dealing with developing countries.

>> No.2860738

>>2860718
That plan would make more sense if we weren't wasting billions of dollars supporting AIDS victims over there.

And yet people think the government is capable of pulling off the 9/11 conspiracy.

>> No.2860747

>The Earth obviously has limited resources and we're well over the limit.

absolute bollocks and you know it,
people starve due to neo-liberalist colonizations

most third world countries can feed themselves, they are however pushed into the production of cash crops or undercut in the markets

then there is the meat industry, which is dangerous, that wastes so much of our food

>> No.2860749

>>2860718
>>2860717

AIDS-mind

>>2860738

Theres reasons for that beyond humanitarianism.

>> No.2860756

>>rampant overpopulation that's killing millions every year due to starvation

What the fuck am I reading?

>> No.2860763
File: 9 KB, 300x240, 1259267993915.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2860763

>>2860756

>herp derp how do logic?

>> No.2860806

>>2860738
It's fucking Bushes fault. He is responsible for much of the anti AIDS work.

>> No.2860832

we should burn dead people as a source of power, who needs coal?

>> No.2860839

>>2860832
surely a more practical use of people would be to use them for producing the means to go and colonize space

its dangerous, so some would die
and it would free up room and resources

>> No.2860845

>>2860763
What the fuck are you writing?

>> No.2860851

>>2860747
>people starve due to neo-liberalist colonizations

Haha, no. Take off your tinfoil hat.

A simple example of overpopulation is the water crisis. Groundwater has been drained across the globe and projection indicate us running out in roughly 20 years. Groundwater is like fossil fuels, it's been stored for millions of years and regenerates at 3% of the rate that we're sucking it up at right now. The water table is falling and has even hit bedrock (disappeared) in many regions.

And then there's fossil fuels. If you deny we're running out you're an idiot. We don't have any sort of energy source that can possibly replace it once it's gone. You better hope we figure out fusion soon so we can build a sun.

>> No.2860861

>>2860632
When is the average uneducated retarded pseudointellectual going to realize that all all OMGIMPEDINGDOOM scenarios are ALARMIST BULLSHIT.
Overpopulation is not a major problem.
Climate change is not a major problem.
Ozone depletion is not a major problem.
Radiation leaks are not a major problem.
Animal Fur is not a major problem.

Agressive maintenance of status quo is a major problem.
Incompetence is a major problem.
Pseudoscience is a major problem.
Shift of brainpower from productive sectors to nonproductive(IE industry->finance) is a major fucking problem.

>> No.2860866

I'm sure Obama and all the other leaders of nations read /sci/ for advice like this to set public policy.

>> No.2860871

>>2860851
potable water and oil are both renewable resources. We can create both quickly. There is some cost involved. Mostly energy, but nuclear offers us so much.

>> No.2860874

>>2860866

That would explain some things....

>>>2860861
>When is the average uneducated retarded pseudointellectual going to realize that all all OMGIMPEDINGDOOM scenarios are ALARMIST BULLSHIT.
Overpopulation is not a major problem.
Climate change is not a major problem.
Ozone depletion is not a major problem.
Radiation leaks are not a major problem.
Animal Fur is not a major problem.

Agressive maintenance of status quo is a major problem.
Incompetence is a major problem.
Pseudoscience is a major problem.
Shift of brainpower from productive sectors to nonproductive(IE industry->finance) is a major fucking problem.

>> No.2860878

>>2860851


When it really comes down to it, one can simply extract clean drinking water directly from the ocean.

Nuclear energy as a start?

>> No.2860882

>>2860861
>Climate change is not a major problem.
I never said it was, and don't think it is. I'm not Al Gore.
Ozone depletion is not a major problem.
>Again, I'm not Al Gore.
Radiation leaks are not a major problem.
>Not Al Gore, I support nuclear power and want to slap the shitheads hyping the Japan meltdown.
>Animal Fur is not a major problem.
I don't live in Hollywood, I don't give a fuck.

Overpopulation, on the other hand, is a major problem. Limited resources are limited and we may not have hit the limit yet, but we will soon. I much prefer more land for fewer people than not enough land for too many people, which is what we're heading for if we keep doubling the world population.

>> No.2860890

If Africa was still ruled by western empires there wouldn't be constant mass starvation, there are few other continents that have so many resources and arable land. Even colonies on Antarctica would end up having a better standard of living than those in Africa given enough time.

There is no "overpopulation" when most of the planet is uninhabited and even if it were the obvious solution would be to expand to start living on the oceans to then slowly transition to living in space, then on other planets.

All that population control would do is allow psychopathic war lords to keep having gigantic families and reduce the amount of genetic variety in the human gene pool. Hell even in China the number of children you can have is directly related to how much power you have.

>> No.2860902
File: 29 KB, 300x307, 1273739865935.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2860902

Starvation is caused by ego-maniacal warlords and dictators controlling the nation's funds.

Look into it.

>> No.2860905

>>2860648
Mind = blown.

>> No.2860918

There will always be poverty because life can exist in poverty.

You do not need clean water to live, you do not need education to live, you do not need housing to live.

The poor will always exist because people love to fuck and damn the consequences.

>> No.2860919

>>2860890
>All that population control would do is allow psychopathic war lords to keep having gigantic families and reduce the amount of genetic variety in the human gene pool.

And what the fuck do you base that on? They're around WITHOUT population control.

I don't even know where you're going with genetic variety, but it's not a problem unless you're inbreeding which population control wouldn't promote in the slightest. I feel dumb for even replying to you.

>> No.2860921
File: 62 KB, 386x550, 1985-KurtVonnegut.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2860921

Solving a non linear differential equation using a computer. Whats the best way of doing this?

>> No.2860929

>>2860918
They can fuck just fine with a condom or a snipped tube and have NO consequences.

A punch to the abdomen also works for the poor.

>> No.2860935

>>2860851
whilst i accept water is an increasingly fleeting resource it is not the reason that millions die

hell that massive irregation project in Libya (before all the stuff started) has an insane amount of water
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Manmade_River
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nubian_Sandstone_Aquifer_System

many of the world's problems are caused by colonialization and neo-colonialization,
the fact that many countries cannot feed themselves is due to the US economic policy, the IMF or WTO.

im not talking about conspiracy, they don't conceal their work.
They openly celebrate their actions in pushing US agri-products around the world- regardless of what it means for the local population
and then there's Monsanto putting copyright on food, a mere example of the insanity of this system

>> No.2860950

>>2860929
>They can fuck just fine with a condom
not without an education, since the stupid and poor are often drawn to religion

also poverty is subjective, many of these people weren't poor until the markets came...

>> No.2860958

>>2860861
>overpopulation is not a major problem
Enjoy your government supplied pod, 400 sq. feet you can call your own for the rest of your life.
Also, enjoy the death of whites. Asians will probably take over our place, so that's not TOO terrible. At least the Africans won't be in charge.

>> No.2861033

>>2860958
I'm okay with China taking over. Good food, good work ethic, obviously talented economists if you look at how they're doing.

>> No.2861083

>>2861033
hey bro the shit they eat in china does not really resemble takeout in america

>> No.2861106

>>2861083
> implying I'm in America
> implying I don't know that anyway

Go to a real Chinese restaurant, son. In China. Shit's amazing.

>> No.2861170

>>2861033
There government manages to be more repressive than even the american government, plus chinese people are 99% pussies.

>> No.2861191

The entire world population can fit into the city of San Francisco.

>> No.2861194

>>2861191
>thinks overpopulation means running out of room

>> No.2861192

>>2861170
> There
At least they can use their words.

Also if you were running a country of over a billion people you wouldn't want them all to be obnoxious "power to me" hambeasts like in the USA.

>> No.2861209

>>2861194
What are we running out of then?

Nuclear power can satisfy all our energy needs. Fresh water can be produced by desalination, powered by nuclear. Food is not hard to produce. Especially in America where we have so much we can support a vast meat industry.

>> No.2861225

>>2861194
>he thinks the earth has physical room for trillions of niggers

>> No.2861230

>Overpopulation isn't a problem.
>study by the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) called the Global Environment Outlook [2] which involved 1,400 scientists and took five years to prepare comes to similar conclusions. It "found that human consumption had far outstripped available resources. Each person on Earth now requires a third more land to supply his or her needs than the planet can supply."
> the US National Research Institute on Food and Nutrition (INRAN), estimate the maximum U.S. population for a sustainable economy at 200 million. According to this theory, in order to achieve a sustainable economy and avert disaster, the United States would have to reduce its population by at least one-third, and world population would have to be reduced by two-thirds.
>WWF's "Living Planet Report" stated that in order for all humans to live with the current consumption patterns of Europeans, we would be spending three times more than what the planet can renew.[88] Humanity as a whole was using, by 2006, 40 percent more than what Earth can regenerate

Cool starry bra.

>> No.2861236

>>2861230
Neat defunct Malthusian scare tactics and appeals to authority, brother.

>> No.2861252

>>2861236
>reliable sources
>appeals to authority
You can only complain about one of these.

>> No.2861264

>>2861252
"Reliable organizations" have been crying about Malthusian shortage scenarios since the 1800s.

Technology, as always, will make up for the deficit between population and land usage.

>> No.2861268

>>2861252
If you think WWF is a remotely reliable source for human overpopulation, gtfo. And the UNEP isn't too much better.

>> No.2861271

>>2861264
>Technology, as always, will make up for the deficit between population and land usage.
As long as we have cheap energy resources, yes. Fossil fuel won't last us forever, though.

>> No.2861273

>>2861191
The entire mass of a sun can be compressed into a 3m sphere following a supernova.

>> No.2861274

>>2860632
The problem is not net population, it is the growth of that population. We're seeing geometric rates of population growth in countries that are at the very least agriculturally unsuited to support ever-increasing population.s

>> No.2861275

That pictures is 10/10 rage-worthy. Bread and meat come out of freedom. It's stupid people that put survival at all costs above ideals like freedom and equality who create totalitarianism, fascistic or communistic..

"Free food and shelter, and all I have to do is vote for a crazed dictator? What can I lose?"

>> No.2861279

>>2860677
>China is not crippled with a system where any of the people have a say.

Fixed that for you

>> No.2861280

>>2861264
will technology deal with the massively increasing emission of pollutants into the Earth's atmosphere and water? Don't think so. We need some good ol' eugenecist genocide to thin the herd, so to speak.

>> No.2861283

>>2861271
Thorium, and Integral Fast Reactors which use nuclear waste as fuel, can supply our energy needs for thousands upon thousands of years. The Earth also naturally replenishes the oceans with uranium and thorium via erosion. It is effectively a renewable fuel as long as we have an atmosphere and liquid core.

>> No.2861288

>>2861283
And how expensive will this be? Cost is the only reason we're still using fossil fuels- they're cheaper than anything else.

>> No.2861292

>>2861209
>Nuclear power can satisfy all our energy needs.

Yeah... no. Radioactive uranium is a limited resource as are the other radioactive elements used for fission. It's also 3 times more expensive than burning fossil fuels. If it were so great we wouldn't have coal plants and windmills anymore even with its shitty reputation.

Also, desalination is so expensive that if it replaced groundwater a bottle of water would cost $150. I don't think most people can afford that.

>> No.2861294

>>2861275
...and thats why I love Legend of the Galactic Heroes.

>> No.2861296

>>2861280
>will technology deal with the massively increasing emission of pollutants into the Earth's atmosphere and water?

Yes. If global warming becomes a major problem we could release hydrogen sulfate into the atmosphere to cool the Earth. Water pollution can also be easily solved given you have enough energy to filter water, which nuclear power can provide a vast abundance of.

>> No.2861303
File: 20 KB, 285x281, 1289964423469.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2861303

>overpopulation is not a major problem
>10,000x the population of any other animal
>implying it's not a problem

>> No.2861311

>>2861292
Wind power is still better but the only reason nuclear power is so rarely used is government overregulation, France for example uses 80% nuclear power, yes it has higher startup costs than coal but without the excessive regulations it has in the US and with some subsidies that are even lighter than wind or solar subsidies it is quite profitable, and using thorium and nuclear waste means we have ~500 years worth of power to figure something out.

And the water bottle figure is fucking retarded and assumes that the 99c for a bottle of water is paying for the water and not the bottling, shipping and marketing.

>> No.2861314

>>2861288
Breeder reactors, like the IFR, use uranium more than 100 times as efficiently as the current light water reactors. Due to this, much more expensive and higher energy uranium can be used. At $1,000 per pound, uranium would contribute only 0.03 cents per kwh, i.e. less than one percent of the cost of electricity. At that price, the fuel cost would correspond to gasoline priced at half a cent per gallon.

To achieve this we would simply need to finance the construction of the latest reactors. And the U.S. hasn't built a nuclear reactor since the 70s.

>> No.2861322

>>2861303
>10,000x the population of any other animals
>i have no knowledge of insects, fish, bacteria, birds...

what the fuck am i reading dot eeh ecks eeh

>> No.2861317
File: 36 KB, 760x797, 1299233791364.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2861317

>>2861292

Never heard of Thorium, huh?

Common as muck and safer than Uranium. Only reason it hasn't been used is because we can't involve the process in weapon making.

>> No.2861319

>>2861303
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poultry_farming#World_chicken_population
>The Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations estimated that in 2002 there were nearly sixteen billion chickens in the world, counting a total population of 15,853,900,000.

>> No.2861326

>>2861296
Trade-offs motherfucker, ever heard of them?

Nuclear power doesn't grow off trees, all those things would cost massive amounts of money that we don't have. Have you not noticed that there's a global debt crisis going on?

Not that we can even control global warming, the sun does that. We're theoretically supposed to be in an ice age right now.

>> No.2861332

>>2861326
>implying we have an overpopulation problem because we dont have enough money
>trollface.jpg

>> No.2861339

>>2861311
>And the water bottle figure is fucking retarded and assumes that the 99c for a bottle of water is paying for the water and not the bottling, shipping and marketing.

Actually, no it doesn't. The bottle was just an analogy.

Desalination is expensive as fuck compared to essentially plucking a straw into the Earth and watching freshwater flow out.

>> No.2861340

>>2861326 massive amounts of money

You can make your own breeder reactor with 500 bucks and a trip to home depot

>> No.2861343

>>2861326
Thorium is very abundant and nuclear waste is free energy source. Even uranium contributes very little as fuel cost in IFRs as explained by Bernard Cohen, Professor Emeritus of Physics at Pittsburgh University:

http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/progress/cohen.html

All that is required is the infrastructure in the form of Generation IV nuclear reactors.

>> No.2861347

>>2861332
>implying money and commodities aren't related

>> No.2861381

Overpopulation is a phenomenon of third world countries.
Once countries reach a certain level of wealth, the population automatically stagnates or even degresses.

I don't really care about Mbungo Dabadu or Mahatma Sayawarama having 10 kids and not being able to feed them. It's a problem that solves itself by death.

The real problem is cheap available energy for the first world countries. Civilization rises and falls with the availability of cheap energy. That's what all this bitching nowadays is about. We don't want the billion chinaman to suck our oil away, cause that will destroy our wealth.

>> No.2861391

>>2861343
Generation IV nuclear infrastructure would require enormous investments. Money that we could as well spend on renewables, with the benefit of not having to deal with waste and possible radiation leaks.

>> No.2861474

>>2861391
Renewables would require just as much investment with less return. Most renewables are not reliable sources of base power since they are dependent on weather resulting in less return. Whereas nuclear can run nonstop, independent of sunlight/wind conditions. Plus, we will effectively never run of uranium or thorium due to their natural erosion and deposit into the oceans.

Integral Fast Reactors also have passive safety to prevent disasters like Fukushima or Chernobyl. Meltdowns from electrical/coolant severance are impossible due to their liquid metal sodium cores which cool the fuel, dampening the nuclear chain reaction, all through the metal's natural convection. Current Light Water Reactors do not have this benefit because water has a much lower relative heat capacity.

>> No.2861508

>>2861391
And the drawbacks of sitting in the dark without electricity half of the time.

>> No.2861580

>>2861474
B-but the radiation!

>> No.2863744

>>2861508
wat?

>> No.2863749

Overpopulation is bullshit. We are nowhere near the absolute carrying capacity and sustainability of the planet.

>> No.2863750

>>2861391
Germany has already put massive investment in renewables and they only 10 percent of THEIR energy out of it.

>> No.2863781
File: 34 KB, 612x468, 1301759382891.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2863781

>He thinks the one-child policy is uniformly rigidly enforced, and that the resulting demo-graphical changes isn't making the CCP think of at least relaxing the policy!

>> No.2863850

In the coming energy crisis the French will rule the world. Damn it.

>> No.2863853

>>2863850
Don't forget, possibly Sweden as well.
http://www.futuretimeline.net/21stcentury/2020-2029.htm#swedenoilfree

>> No.2863884 [DELETED] 

You people are retards. Just because people aren't starving doesn't mean we're not overpopulated.

1: "hurr there's plenty of space", don't be a retard
2: Think in the long term, dumbfucks. Resources get depleted, populations continue to grow, climate change is happening whether it's manmade or not. We should prepare for the future now because it will get increasingly difficult to do so as time goes on.
3: Just because people aren't starving doesn't mean we aren't overpopulated. Is your idea of a utopia a world with 20 billion who live on rations of lentils with no wildlife left or resources devoted to anything other than necessities? In this world no one starves, yet no one really lives either, not only are there no decadent luxuries but there are few resources to devote to technology, art or anything that makes life worth living, humanity will sit like this until the sun swells into a red giant and sterilises the surface of the earth. At a certain level of population the benefits of a higher population become lower than the drawbacks.

>> No.2863886

It makes me chuckle seeing everyone talk about renewable energy and how it can solve the oil depletion crisis which is approaching in the near future. Seems to me that /sci/ isn't quite taking into consideration what all we use oil for.

Look around your room. Everything that's plastic, rubber, metal, synthetic textile, and electronic all required some degree of oil to make. Tires for cars cost oil to make. Actually making cars requires oil. Construction requires oil. Making nuclear and (late on) fusion plants require absolutely massive amounts of oil.

When you talk about oil, you absolutely cannot look at it in since a one dimensional light. Yes, we could offset a lot of our oil consumption by revamping the power grid, but do we actually have the oil reserves in place to build such infrastructure anymore? If we were to develop cars that could run without oil, could we place the hundreds of millions of cars we have now?

Hopefully someone finishes this post and feels somewhat enlightened.

>> No.2863888

>>2863886
because no way could we bootstrap a non-oil process

>> No.2863898

>>2863886

Bioplastics how do they work?

>> No.2863913

>>2860701
that is because niggers cannot into agriculture

>> No.2863915

>>2863886
We use less than 10% of oil for plastics.
If we stop burning it (nuclear for electricity, hydrogen and what-not for cars), there is no problem.
But, we will not stop burning it.
Well, we, i'm french, and the problem is basically usa and china/india.
No, in fact, china and india also shift from fossil fuel.
Putain de ricains.