/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.2841287]

What political and/or economical system would be the best for ensuring the survival of our species and why?

[Anonymous No.2841295]

I don't have the energy to even try to lean into this topic seriously.

Carl Sagan should've been a dictator.

[Anonymous No.2841311]

Not capitalism, that's for sure.

[Anonymous No.2841318]

a post-scarcity society, because fuck, it'd be awesome.

[Anonymous No.2841323]

Machine rule + capitalism.
0% corruption or self serving in the government.
100% awesome.

[Anonymous No.2841329]

>>2841311
Daym rigt! Capiati$m is EVIL. LOL.
Communizm all teh way

[Anonymous No.2841334]

>>2841329

No way, communism is even worse.

[Anonymous No.2841336]

Anything but Capitalism or Communism.

[Anonymous No.2841348]

>>2841336
Fascism it is, then.

[Anonymous No.2841355]

.>>2841348

That's synonymous with our current system.

[Anonymous No.2841356]

>>2841287
The Anthropic Republic
>Social Democracy
>Mixture of representative and direct democracy
>Strong protection of personal rights/liberty
>Rigorous compulsory education
>Universal conscription into militia (much like Switzerland)
>Universal healthcare, right to employment, right to basic housing, etc.
>Military R&D is under the umbrella of state-owned Ministry of Science and Technology, which also does "big science" projects in the civilian sector. All royalties from patents or research produced is used to relieve tax burden and as bonuses for scientists involved.

If you want more, I can delivar. I defy you to find REAL faults with the Republic

pic related: it's the symbol of the Anthropic Republic

[Anonymous No.2841358]

>>2841356
Add "Controlled population growth" and you have my vote.

[Anonymous No.2841360]

Meritocratic Technocratic Oligarchy

[Anonymous No.2841363]

>>2841358
>Social Democracy. Education, healthcare, unemployment are covered by the government. Think most of Western Europe
>Science in general and space exploitation (not just exploration, exploitation) are heavily funded and encouraged. All profits from state-run asteroid mining and space solar power are used to offset tax burden on the populace.
>All citizens of sound mind are required to join the militia. One year of training following the completion of secondary education. Two weeks of annual training and exercises for every unit. One weekend every two months. This continues until age 55 when you're discharged. As best as possible, your civilian job will translate into your military job. Ex. Wannabe doctors will be trained as combat medics, spaces provided, once they join at age 18.

[Anonymous No.2841365]

>The deployment of any military forces to actions other than routine patrol of shipping lanes, guard duties at embassies, and training exercises with friendly nations must be decided by popular vote. Shooting EVEN ONE ROUND unless your ship/unit/whatever is directly attacked first, requires a 3/4 majority of the popular vote. Emergency votes for this will be conducted at emergency town hall meetings. The air raid/tornado siren goes off, your cell phone alerts you, ALL TV's broadcast it... you vote by secure connection either at home or from a voting site near you.
>Unicameral legislature. One senator for every million people. Judicial branch operates like the US supreme court. Three executives called Primarchs: vote every 2 years, serve for 6 year terms.
>ANY discovery of collusion between government officials and private entities engaging in political actions will result in a trial by jury. Guilt results in mandatory minimum punishment of 20 years incarceration, seizure of all assets. Execution for corruption may be used if deemed necessary by the judge involved. Even if a county clerk whose brother owns a paving business is found to have given the contract to his brother as a no-bid contract... he faces potential execution by firing squad.

[Anonymous No.2841370]

>Defense spending is not to exceed 1.5% of GDP unless in times of war. R&D is handled by a separate branch of the government that covers both military developments, pure science, and protection/distribution of intellectual property produced by the Republic. Profitable designs/discoveries produced by the Ministry of R&D are patented and licensed with profits being used to relieve tax burden and as bonuses for the research teams involved.
>Any corruption of non-elected officials, if determined in a fair trial by a jury of one's peers, meets the same potential sentence as an elected official. Corrupt police officers, planting evidence, fudging regulatory reports... all could potentially constitute capital crimes.
>All female citizens have their eggs endoscopically harvested at age 8. Eggs are stored in local cryo-vaults. These vaults are hardened against attack and have independent power provided by a small fission reactor. (Think the ones Toshiba is pitching right now) All facilities have an on-site liquid nitrogen production facility to keep the dewar flasks cooled.
>All pregnancies are allowed without question once both parties are 24 years of age. Fertilized embryos are screened for defects and those not meeting standards are discarded.

[Anonymous No.2841373]

>>2841356
Well, the massive potential for corruption, for one.

Plus the fact that since it's a democracy, and most people probably wouldn't be too happy about a lot of it, there'd be massive disagreement on how to do things (because you can't really enforce all the other stuff as permanently mandatory AND have it be actually democratic). Either you'll just have constant fights and various tactics to ensure one 'side' wins, or parts of it will be voted out entirely.

I guess you could just say "only certain kinds of people are allowed in" but that just raises plenty more problems.

[Anonymous No.2841374]

Benevolent autocracy with a philosopher-king. The most problematic obstacle here is getting someone utterly selfless to be that philosopher-king but then he or she won't live forever unless we find a cure for, well, death.

[Anonymous No.2841375]

>All citizens retain their military-issue sidearm with three magazines of ammunition maximum allowed outside of shooting ranges. Open carry of these weapons is allowed for all citizens that have completed initial military training. Military issue assault weapons are kept at home with 3 magazines and are not to leave the home without written consent from the company level CO.
>Any and all non-lethal conduct between consenting adults of sound mind is legal. Homosexuality, marriage, polyamory, etc.
>Dueling is legal so long as the attorneys of both parties as well as a local police officer are witness to the contract between the combatants.

[Anonymous No.2841378]

>>2841365
>Guilt results in mandatory minimum punishment of 20 years incarceration, seizure of all assets. Execution for corruption may be used if deemed necessary by the judge involved. Even if a county clerk whose brother owns a paving business is found to have given the contract to his brother as a no-bid contract... he faces potential execution by firing squad.

That seems kind of out of place with the whole "enlightened" attitude.

[Anonymous No.2841380]

>All military operations must have clearly defined, declared objectives. These objectives must be delivered within 72 hours of "weapons free" authorization by popular vote. Military actions require re-authorization by popular vote every six months. Failure to achieve objectives or failure to receive re-authorization will result in a 3 month timetable for withdrawal of all forces and equipment.
>Occupation of enemy territory is not allowed under the constitution, as military forces in a hostile country constitutes war and requires a vote. We destroy our enemies because we are attacked first, we do not offer aid or comfort following their defeat.
>It will be standard policy to produce and procure small numbers of highly advanced military equipment... the best possible. Materials necessary for production of 5x the initial order will be stockpiled and set aside to ensure rapid production of military equipment in times of crisis.
>Production of ALL components of any military equipment must be entirely domestic. Resources that cannot be acquired within our own territory due to environmental concerns or sheer lack will be stockpiled and kept as a strategic reserve.

[Anonymous No.2841387]

>>2841378
Corruption of the state's apparatus is the most serious crime. The state exists to ensure the prosperity, safety, and happiness of the people. Corruption of those values by any servant of the state is a breach of trust between the Republic and its people. If an arm or servant of the state turns on the people for personal gain, only the most severe punishments are appropriate.

[Scia !!cjW58FjfJHZ No.2841388]

Libertarianism combined with an educated populace.

Then Capitalism as SpaceX is proving is the best way to quickly populate space.

[Anonymous No.2841389]

>>2841356
I'm liking your posts.

What would your views on Banks/Shopping Centres/ Other Big Businesses? Are these all state owned with profits going towards relieving the tax burden?

[Anonymous No.2841394]

Oh, if only I could be that idealistic again. Too bad I live in the real world now.

[Anonymous No.2841398]

>>2841389
I'm not the anthropic republic-guy, but I guess he'll too admit that you can't force all business to be state-run. People won't stand for it.

Banks? Yes (lot's of western European countries had state-run banks until the 1990s or so) - IMO this needs to be part of a new economic system anyway. Our current model is based on perpetual growth, we need to get rid of it.

Shopping Centres? - Nah.
Big Business? - Meh. Can't allow monopolies or businesses to become "too big".

[Anonymous No.2841399]

Why no helping other countries out?

[Anonymous No.2841401]

>The Ministry of Art and Culture will take 40% of all ad revenue generated by any reality television. If it's deemed as reality television in just ONE other country... then it is for us, so no loopholes. Money collected from Jersey Shore ad revenue will go into funding local symphonies, art conservatories, instruments for music students, and materials for art departments at universities.

All of this is enshrined in the constitution. Citizens that do not wish to pay taxes, join the militia, or have their children enter the educational system are free to opt out. Remember that out-opters will receive no benefits from the government and be stripped of their voting franchise. They are still afforded protection from crime, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, fire services, etc. They may not partake in the government reproductive program or own militia-issued weapons. The right to purchase private firearms is still retained. They are protected from employment discrimination by strict equal-opportunity employment laws. In lieu of taxes, they must pay an equivalent amount to the charitable cause of their choice, failure to pay results in civil charges against the accused. The right to a fair trial by jury is retained.
>They chose not to be citizens, but they are still human beings and deserve their dignity and basic human rights. The Anthropic Republic exists to protect and shepherd mankind.

[Anonymous No.2841411]

>>2841287
The problem is not money or politics. The problem is people; they SUCK. Most people are just a half step above the rest of the animals. Until we evolve beyond that we're going to continue having problems.

[Scia !!cjW58FjfJHZ No.2841416]

A Libetertarian country on the moon where the entire population has at least a bachelors degree.

[Anonymous No.2841427]

ok, what about this one?

> "dumb" AIs (capable of problem solving and learning, but without intelligence) provide a large amount of the workforce - controlling business, manufacturing and transport, for example.

> This eliminates a large need for money - machines don't require wages, and people are no longer required to work, so do not require money as an incentive.

> Everyone gets free food/water/housing/healthcare etc. No taxes (as money doesn't exist).

> This leaves people free to explore more "noble" career options - science, music, art etc. Teachers wont have to deal with budget cuts or unnecessary paperwork, and can actually *teach* people.

> The community now works towards furthering the community, rather than earning money. We take steps towards a more efficient life (nuclear fusion, hydrogen fuel cells).

> Science advances, we stop destroying the planet, space program advance.

[Anonymous No.2841433]

>>2841389
Citizens are free to pursue wealth by any legal means. Republican Denarius (currency) is based on a basket of commodities to keep price stable. (State held grain surplus, gold, silver, palladium, platinum, rare earths, oil, and excess profits from state-run enterprise are kept as reserve to back up the currency)

Banking is just fine. Stock exchanges, futures markets, etc. are all just fine. All banks may apply for government disaster protection (FDIC) for customers. However, banks must turn over records (not of individual clients, we believe in bank secrecy and right to financial privacy) annually for review by the Anti-Trust Agency. Risky investments and glaring discrepancies are filed and noted. Under Republican Corporate codes, the top 10% of employees by compensation (total of bonuses, pay, stock options, etc.) are liable for civil damages if the Anti-Trust Agency finds fault after major financial event.

TL;DR: You can make whatever investments or banking instruments you want. However, if you fuck up and enough people lose everything... you're liable for civil action against your personal wealth to pay back the defrauded investors/customers.

[Anonymous No.2841440]

>>2841295
This pretty much. The fucker's dead so we might as well just give up.

[Anonymous No.2841450]

>post-scarcity
>hurr capitalism is evil
>derp derp no money, no property, everything for free
Hey, you guys are communists, right?
>OMG LOL DUMB HICK SARAH PALIN GLENN BECK NEOCONS "DATZ SOSHULIZM" LOLOLOLOL WE'RE NOT COMMUNISTS WHAT GAVE YOU THAT IDEA, FOX NEWS???

[a strong ai No.2841470]

First a forum of discussion built to enforce the implied rules of debate must be created. I plan to use a strong AI to do this (automated moderation to remove fallacy).

Second, people must vote not on a person to represent them, but a belief set. The belief set will be created by whoever is good at doing such things, and will be coherent. The voting will be to choose between different moral issues when it is clear there are more than one valid way of looking at a particular issue. Many issues will be tied together by general principals of the same belief set so people do not need to vote on every issue. A person will be chosen to execute each belief set, the replacement of the "representative". Overly vocal minority situations must also be dealt with if they are not dealt with by the aggregation of issues into general belief sets (such as police/criminal justice personnel dominating local elections and eroding due process and civil rights enforcing unnecessary rules etc.) perhaps by denying voting rights on certain issues to people who have an unrepresentative perspective due to state employment.

[a strong ai No.2841472]

The economic system foundation would be of course capitalism, with a leaning towards evolutionary socialism... similar in some respects to US economy different in others.

Privatize secondary education, separate testing and education firms would arise with employers and potential employees as respective customers. Outlaw nondisclosure agreements with respect to teaching, so corporate scientists an always go share what they know with the education firms.

Death tax is high enough to prevent polarization of wealth, and to prevent laziness in intelligent/capable bloodlines (IQ is heritable) but allow access to amassed resources to give the next generation a head start.

Hmm what are some other issues... Pollution... Environmentalists calculate amount of pollution processable to environment and sell vouchers that give permission to pollute the environment a certain amount.

[Anonymous No.2841475]

>>2841433
Honest financial reporting, honest rating of investments and credit ratings are just fine. You aren't liable if you rated the risky CDS's as risky. You aren't liable if your business plan just didn't go through and you didn't do the profit/loss shuffle (like Enron did).

>It is state policy to invest heavily in new manufacturing, resource management, and power technologies.

Robotics, AI, molecular nanotech, fusion power, etc. are all research goals. The further we can move towards a high, stable, and sustainable standard of living for all citizens, the better. Remember, the Republic exists to ensure the safety, freedom, happiness, and existence of the human race... mankind does not exist to serve the Republic.

Keep in mind that some efforts are made to ameliorate classism. Compulsory education is to a very high standard and constant research is done to improve it. You serve in your militia unit will all types of people. Your boss at work might be your platoon leader during training exercises, or you might be his commanding officer. The wealthy and the relatively poor are in the same units and you can't buy yourself a higher rank/different unit posting... nepotism is still a form of corruption, which is punished severely.

The ultimate goals are: a post-scarcity economy, the highest degree of personal freedom for all humans (maybe even all sentient beings, if "smart" AI works out), freedom of artistic and scientific expression and endeavors, economic freedom, one government for the entire human species, a fair justice system, and security for all mankind. In the unlikely event that we do make first contact or warfare becomes necessary in the distant future for some reason, the human race can be mobilized into one GIGANTIC military. If we can't win with technology, diplomacy, or finesse; there is the ever-present threat of a human zerg-rush of terrifying proportions.

[a strong ai No.2841490]

Crime - Littering is punishable by community service in the form of cleaning up 10 pieces of trash enforceable on the spot by police officers without due process, but officers must carry cameras or audio recorders or both at all times. If innocent people can take plea bargains to avoid the trial process or the chance of going to jail, then you can clean up a little trash without full due process.

Dirty neighborhoods depress people and make them commit more crime.

First degree murderers executed, not because they deserve it but because they pose too much of a risk.

Lesser murderers must prove (preponderance/50% of evidence) they are not first degree murderers (once it is proved they are responsible for the death) lest be executed. If they do so, they face either a light sentence (1 year max) or nothing in the case of self defense. In any second offense the standard of evidence moves to beyond a shadow of a doubt (99%) that they did not intend to murder the person before the altercation, and they will probably just be executed unless it is clearly unusual circumstances. Police are exempt from this rule.

[a strong ai No.2841493]

Other crimes punishable by light jail sentence (up to a month) and bearing of the cost of insuring against the type of crime committed, with the possibillity of state indentured servitude.

No damage speculative crimes do not exist. This includes things like threats, speeding, assault, dui etc. Attempted battery type assault is not a crime but is a defense against one (IE you can shoot people who shoot at you, hit people who swing at you).

In order for any of these things to cause damage, an actual crime must occur. Mandatory awareness programs attended by citizens including awareness of things like the probability of causing a wreck if drunk or speeding, validated by objective statistics and research.

This society would not become a police state with minimal civil rights driven by fear and cowardice. Nor would the ignorant and passive aggressive be allowed to manipulate their surroundings using deceit without any fear of confrontation or intimidation by those with conviction.

IQ would be on drivers liscence's and credit reports. State help for people with low intelligence in terms of job placement, education credits, free birth control, and if need be minimal food and shelter.

No direct limitations on people due to IQ. Any government employees or education credits (other than welfare credits) would evaluate on merits only using scientifically valid criteria.

[Anonymous No.2841496]

Global, benevolent dictatorship.

Exterminate religion and all traces of it.

Enforced sterilization for low-income, below-average intelligence populations.

[Anonymous No.2841498]

we would have to literally adopt the same form of society that ants and other social insects have. Since op is asking what is best for a general species and not an individual.

What you're best at is what you do. Period and you have no say in anything. You are to be given only what you absolutely need and all resources go to the development of new technologies that would enhance our species survival, colonize new planets for more resources and create supercomputers that would dictate our every move to best make sure we function as a whole to maximize our survival time.

At one point humans would be taken out of the picture as soon as there are robots/androids that would do everything for us. We would probably be spending 99% of our time in stasis.

[a strong ai No.2841508]

>>2841498

A stasis pod would malfunction, let one person out. That person would say "Damn it all to hell!" and sabotage all the rest.

[Anonymous No.2841536]

>>2841498
Exactly! Humans are humans, not eusocial insects. We need individual choice and freedom. Sometimes, it's counter-productive and not exactly what's best for society, but it's what's best for us from an emotional standpoint.

I envision the Anthropic Republic as a mix of Athens and Sparta. The people are free, educated, cultured, and creative. However, they have military training, are embryo selected before birth to be the best, and posses an aggressive spirit. Fierce political debate over a few beers and maybe a hookah of now legal marijuana is common in bars. The billionaire industrialist and the primary school teacher are buddies from their militia training days and enjoy a round of golf together every now and then. Sure the teacher is jealous of the wealth, but their children attend the same school and both receive the highest standard of education. The teacher has a more modest house and mode of personal transport, but is far from destitute, the next visit to the hospital won't bankrupt him/her. Sure, you pay the mortgage and it's pricey, but you won't lose your home if the debt commodity built around your mortgage goes south. Sure, the customer's Benz you're working on is nice and very expensive, but you can still get to work even if your car breaks down and you can't afford it... because public transport is efficient and available.

Maybe I read too much into Maslow, but if your basic needs and worries aren't a problem then you're free to fulfill yourself in other ways. The creativity spawned by this freedom could well be the key to unleashing a second renaissance for the entire human race.

[Anonymous No.2841556]

>>2841356
I will look into this, but, please provide more.

[Synonymous !0l3ParseCs No.2841569]

Socialism with scientist elected scientific officials in charge of planning and allocating resources

A shift of focus from individual luxury to technological advancement

[Anonymous No.2841573]

A society in which any person having an income of 200% or more or will automatically have the surplus confiscated and spread over the rest of the population.

Meaning that if average income is $50k and i earn $500k, i would have the $400k confiscated and added to the income of everyone else.
Now if this event bumps up the average income to $51k then i'd be allowed to keep $102k of my income.

This would motivate an elevation of average income as much as possible and supress hoarding/greed practices. If everyone that could afford a massive income instead shaved down the pure profit margin and paid their workers more, the average income would increase, allowing you to get a bigger share too.

Trying to dodge the system trough loopholes and offshore accounts would result in freezing/confiscation of all your assets, you'd be granted an average apartment, a 75% of average income account and have your fancy little scheme mailed put up for public display with name, picture and everything.

[Anonymous No.2841593]

>>2841399
The Republic is never the aggressor. Good luck riling up enough of the population into a war of total destruction that they'll likely be fighting. Remember that the senator's son/daughter isn't safe from deployment to combat... nobody under 55 is. If there is to be war, everyone will be involved and it is to be total. The might of the Republic's military forces will be overwhelming and irresistible.

Seeing as the Republic didn't start the war, as wars of aggression are politically nigh impossible to pull off, it is likely to be a war of survival. The Republic must have been blatantly attacked in order to engender enough votes for war. This means that the enemy will be treated according to the rules of war (fair treatment of POW's, no chemical/biological warfare, etc.) but their country will be left in ruin.

By the time a war is finished and won, the aggressor nation will have no one but themselves to pick up the pieces, no one but themselves to blame. The government of the aggressor will have to answer to its people as to why their homes became collateral damage in a bombing raid, why their son was killed in battle, why they attacked a nation that didn't attack them first.

[Anonymous No.2841616]

>>2841556

These posts are mine and are about my retarded ideal government...
>>2841593
>>2841536
>>2841475
>>2841433
>>2841401
>>2841387
>>2841380
>>2841375
>>2841370
>>2841365
>>2841363

I'm bored today and /sci/ is my outlet. I'd love to hear your thoughts/comments/opinion/rage/hate though.

Pic unrelated, but kind of cool

[Anonymous No.2841661]

>>2841573

fucking incentives how do they work?

[Anonymous No.2841673]

>>2841661
Improve all of society and you can get more money?
Instead of be a backstabbing psychopath for maximum profit?

[Anonymous No.2841691]

>>2841389
Shopping centers are fine, so long as they conform to environmental protection code and pay for their own connection to public transit/road systems.

Big business is fine, so long as you aren't found to be engaging in monopolistic practices, intentionally selling defective/unsafe products, dodging taxes, mistreating employees (discrimination, cutting them short on the 6 weeks' paid vacation, or providing an unsafe/hostile work environment), or dodging environmental stewardship regulations.

You're perfectly welcome to build a business as big as you want and make as much as you'd like so long as you play by the rules. We don't discourage capitalism, it gives incentive for people to work and excel and economic freedom is a big component of a truly free society. We discourage and try to combat the more harmful aspects of unchecked capitalism, but we generally embrace the free market.

[Anonymous No.2841701]

>>2841673
It doesn't work like that in real life.

In economics there is always an equal and opposite reaction to changes you try and forcefully create in the free-market.

If you try and redistribute wealth, the rich will simply redefine wealth.into something they can trade that cannot be subject to government intervention (IE. If you start taking all their paper money and giving it to Africans they will just use gold or a computerized currency of their own creation).

Just like China & Russia proved on a large-scale levels, and many other countries on a smaller level, you cannot take away economic incentives and expect society to function and grow.

Learn 2 economics 101.

[Anonymous No.2841703]

Idealistically, a fruity anarcho-communist utopia with a "resource based economy", everything planned perfectly by a benevolent dictator, either an AI or some theoretically perfect people's republic. We'll be whisked around in electric cars powered by tofu.

Realistically.
A patchwork of corrupt democracies and a highly globalized economy complete with an international language of business, unrestricted schengen-style migration and trade. Once everyone is part of the global economy they won't feel the need to go berserk and start an insurgency, no matter how poor they are, since every elite will profit from and be in favor of globalization and the poor always choose a corruptible elite to control them. Once this is in place global projects can be undertaken to improve a stagnant resource depleted economy, investment in technology over centuries will eventually result in transhumanism and possibly power sources that we cannot predict given our current knowledge. Humanity will not just take control of it's own evolution but modify the next generation, eventually reaching the point where biologically immortal highly intelligent beings can create sapient life forms capable of surviving on other worlds, building their own industrial high tech economies there and ex tepand through the galaxy. This will be done slowly though, there will be no warp travel or anything.

[Anonymous No.2841710]

>>2841673

people who ignore reality are destined to have it work against them.