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/sci/ - Science & Math

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2838589 No.2838589 [Reply] [Original]

Hey /sci/entists,
Call me a newfag, idiot, uneducated, whatever, but can you please explain to me why Titanium (Ti-22) is considered a stronger metal than Iron (Fe-26), even though an iron atom is more dense and, by theory, therefore stronger?

>> No.2838597

Strength has nothing to do with density.

>> No.2838600

Because titanium has the word 'titan' in it's name, which implies great strength, while iron is just.. iron.

>> No.2838613

>>2838600
What about Ironman?

>> No.2838615

>>2838613
He wasn't around when they named the elements or they probably would have just come right out with it and called iron shit.

>> No.2838627
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2838627

<<<<<<<

>> No.2838646

>>2838615
I lol'd. Thank you good sir.

>>2838597
I'm still confused though. But thanks for the help.

>> No.2838653

>>2838646
No problem, ask me anything, I'm an inorganic chemistry phd student.

>> No.2838671

>>2838597

This. Density is how tightly atoms are packed. Strength, in the sense you're talking about, is more about intermolecular forces. In the case of metals, they all form metallic network solids in the solid phase. How tightly the atoms are packed there or how few gaps occur in the lattice (which is why alloying makes stronger metals, the atoms fill the gaps of the other metal's lattice), are not necessarily a reflection of how strongly the atoms are held in their positions when you're talking about crystalline structures. Further, you can get denser elements just be increasing atomic weight and keeping the same spacing.

Titanium is also "stronger" in the sense that it doesn't corrode easily. Basically it reacts to form oxides on its surface, which prevent electrochemical erosion from occurring by virtually eliminating water/elemental metal interfaces.

>> No.2838685

>>2838671
Thank you so much for your help!

>> No.2838712

>>2838685

Sorry, I phrased that third sentence in a cancer-inducingly horrible way.

I meant to say density =/= to strength of intermolecular forces, but that the structure of the lattice is important.

That inorganic PhD student could probably explain it a lot better, and more accurately, though. I'm still an undergrad and only have done work in organic and electrochemistry.

>> No.2838763

>>2838712
That's okay, because I'm still a senior high school student. No, this thread wasn't homework. I got a new periodic table the other day and was looking at it, remembered titanium is stronger than iron but noticed it was lower.

Also, is organic chemistry like mainly studying carbon and what it can turn into or become?

>> No.2838816

>>2838763

In a sense, yeah, it's a really wide field with a bunch of sub-disciplines. Generally speaking organic chem is pretty much what you described, the chemistry of carbon compounds and how carbon interacts with other elements. Because carbon likes to form 4 bonds, it makes literally millions of compounds, having wildly different properties.

Common products of organic chemistry (discounting things occurring in nature) you'd be familiar with from your day to day life would be mostly drugs (pharmaceuticals, I mean, though really any illegal drug is also an organic compound) and plastics.

>> No.2839552

fucking hell /sci. lrn2titanium.

from wikipedia:

The two most useful properties of the metal form are corrosion resistance and the highest strength-to-weight ratio of any metal.[5] In its unalloyed condition, titanium is as strong as some steels, but 45% lighter.

>titanium is as strong as some steels, but 45% lighter.

titanium is only as "strong" as the weakest steel, its advantage is its weight.

>> No.2839558

>>2838589
>even though an iron atom is more dense and, by theory, therefore stronger?
so gold is stronger than titanium?

>> No.2839564

>>2838589
Titanium is not strong. Steel alloys have better measures on pretty much every metric you would care about than titanium alloys.

Except for one that is. Titanium is lighter, which sometimes makes it the better building material.

>> No.2839565

I was waiting for someone to mention gold. A really super soft metal that's also really dense. It's so soft that we can pound it, by hand, into a foil only a few hundred atoms thick.

>> No.2839570

>>2838613
ironman was actually a titanium gold alloy, sorry.

>> No.2839581

>Titanium (Ti-22) is considered a stronger metal than Iron (Fe-26)

It isn't.

However it does have several desirable properties (light weight, corrosion resistance, non-reactivity) along with strength that is still very good, so it's considered a high grade material.

>> No.2839596

>>2839581

Aluminum for instance has many of the properties we like in titanium (particularly low weight), but it's much weaker than either steel or titanium so we can't use it where high strength is required even if we'd like to.

>> No.2839610

Also often when people say "titanium" they talk about titanium-carbon-steel.
Titanium and carbon fills up the holes between the iron spheres and the mix gets more dense.

>> No.2839638

>>2839610
checked, not true. scratch my last post.

It's Titanium-aluminium-vanadium alloy with only 0.4% iron and no carbon.