/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.2818282]

What is your ideal system if you where to educate 10.000 people from they are born until they finish their education?

[Anonymous No.2818296]

>>2818282
Start school at four years of age and specialize them to university degrees directly. No time wasting precisious neuroplasticity time on generic bullshit and propaganda.

Also, make them speak their mind true and uncensored, no dallying around "oh we should get to know eachother better" but skip straight to "lets get together and have some casual sex because i think you're boy/girlfriend material"

[Anonymous No.2818305]

>>2818296
That's gonna work well.

[Anonymous No.2818315]

Basic education involving reading, writing, foreign languages, science and mathematics from an early age. Teach basic calculus right after they are done learning basic operations, it's something they should master at the same level of ease.

At 10 years of age relegate those with the worst results to menial labour, and put the best in separated classes so they are not held back by their classmates. Everyone else carries on like before.

And, under no circumstances, would literature and art find its way in the curriculum. Teaching that stuff in school is a surefire way to make people hate it, and the kind of knowledge school imparts on such subjects is pointless anyway.

[Anonymous No.2818318]

>>2818282

Hey Obama, that´s your job, not our´s.

[Anonymous No.2818332]

>>2818296
Uh.... You need most of the basic skills you learn in school (reading, writing, basic math, etc.) for doing ANYTHING in university man. Sure, you could probably compress the time you spend in school, but not completely remove it.

Also, history courses, etc. are also fairly important. For example, do you want people voting in elections, running for government, etc. without any basic knowledge of our history?

Also, what "generic bullshit and propaganda"?

[Anonymous No.2818338]

>>2818332
History of course.

And knowledge of history is the most overrated piece of shit information ever.

Oh no it isn't! we won't repeat our mistakes.

YES WE WILL, WE'VE DONE IT FOR THE PAST FOUR THOUSAND YEARS.

[Anonymous No.2818339]

>>2818332
>For example, do you want people voting in elections, running for government, etc. without any basic knowledge of our history?

I don't see how that could be worse than the current system where those people have no basic knowledge of science.

[Anonymous No.2818348]

>>2818332
On the contrary. People DO have a very *basic* understanding of science in the general population, just not a very good one. If you didn't bother teaching them any science in school, we would be much worse off.

[Anonymous No.2818354]

Read Plato's Republic.

[Anonymous No.2818363]

>>2818332

I just want to say I have very very little knowledge of the U.S. Government and every time I have voted I really didn't know anything about who was running or what the issues were. I also have taken 11 years of history.

[Anonymous No.2818366]

>>2818338
You've got to be fucking kidding me.

You guys aren't autistic like I thought, you're full blown retards

[Anonymous No.2818369]

>>2818354
HAHAHA... Plato?

Man, I read some of Aristotle's and Plato's works in a course I took last year (it had to do with rhetoric). I seem to recall that they had pretty damn messed up views back then :P

[Anonymous No.2818376]

>>2818369
you clearly don't know what plato's republic is

[Anonymous No.2818388]

>>2818338
Bullshit is things like studying grammar for grammars sake, if students can write fluently in some manner they are okay. As for history, it's bullshit, all nations on earth spend an awful lot of time on regional/national history that turns out to be entirely fucking useless in a practical manner.

People would vote a lot more intelligently if they had some clue about the current system and the people involved instead of some random trivia about the Battle of Bullshit Bulge or some other nonuseful trivia.

Teaching people real life skills and systems would be far higher on my list. Where I went to school the current financial system with stock exchanges and whatnot weren't mentioned at all. They told us absolutely nothing about how society works, the down to earth stuff. They told us how the local political system works, so if i want to be part of the oh, what? 20 or so people in local politics it's a great thing, but owning property or starting a business, renting stuff or tax system? Not a single fucking word, they thought it was more important that i knew the name and life of a local political figure that died 200 years ago than knew the current workings of the world. Things like the semiconductor wasn't mentioned either, the fucking fundament of modern society was entirely ignored! My understanding of a computer chip was "a black thing with contact pins" until i looked up what semiconductors and lithography processes on my own a couple of years ago.

There's so incredibly much useless conservative trivia that's just hanging to the educational system and fills upp students brain with mindnumbing information that they'll forget at first occasion, because no one needs it, that it's insane.

[Anonymous No.2818414]

>>2818388
I'm saving this and sending it to every school in my politician in this county.

[Anonymous No.2818435]

>>2818388

>if students can write fluently in some manner they are okay

Enjoy teaching students about science when they can't even read properly or write reports.

>As for history, it's bullshit, all nations on earth spend an awful lot of time on regional/national history that turns out to be entirely fucking useless in a practical manner.

Achievements inspire and people do learn from their mistakes. If no one studied political models of the past they can't make arguments against ones presented at the moments. If no one knew about their country's history they have no interest in maintaining and improving its standard of living.

[Anonymous No.2818442]

>>2818414

>it to every school in my politician in this county

[Anonymous No.2818443]

>>2818388
Durr, my brain melted.

I'm sending this to every politician responsible for school issues in this country.

[Anonymous No.2818457]

>>2818435
I was taught english phonetics in High School, let me tell you, that is the most, unusable piece of crap I've ever learned since Computer Knowledge (best class ever. NOW THIS BUTTON HERE STARTS THE COMPUTER, EVERYBODY PRESS THE 'START' BUTTON)

[Anonymous No.2818500]

>>2818435
> If no one studied political models of the past they can't make arguments against ones presented at the moments.
You mean that things like tyranny and dictatorship is a model of the past? Or that teaching feudalism and old chool monarchy actually needs the historylessons coupled to it?

Teach the students a systematic/schematic views of things, not how King Cuntfance the Fifth raped his pesants in dumbfuckistan during his period of mental illness from xx85-xx92 until he fell down the stairs and broke his neck while being drunk. If the students can conceptualize things they are much more likely to be able to compare arbitrary situations and manipulate them mentally to find better solutions.

>Enjoy teaching students about science when they can't even read properly or write reports.
You read my argument and then dismiss the whole of it? Do you think in terms of prepositions verbs, subject object and interjection when you write your post or read your sentence? Or do you just do it fluently like you've always done? I learned english from playing computer games on SNES and PS, reading science fiction and having internet access, not from grinding exercises during the lectures.

[Anonymous No.2818536]

>>2818500

>Teach the students a systematic/schematic views of things,

This is what any decent education system does. What country are you in where it doesn't? Most high school history classes involve some deal of analysis/comparisons with todays world.

[Anonymous No.2818581]

>>2818536
>What country are you in where it doesn't
Finland, someone suggested we've got one of the best school systems, which says a lot about how shitty it have to be in the rest of the world because it's not good here by any means.
>Most high school history classes involve some deal of analysis/comparisons
And what about before high school, and why only some? It's the holy fucking grail of knowledge as it involves understanding instead of memorization of trivia or blind rules.

[Anonymous No.2818670]

>>2818338
>>2818338
>>2818338
>>2818338
>>2818338
>>2818338
>>2818338
>>2818338
>>2818338
>>2818338

THIS

I AM SO FUCKING SICK AND TIRED OF 'HURR DURR HISTUURY IS SO WE WONT DO IT AGAIN'

THERE WAS TYRANNY/DICTATORSHIP THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO, AND THERE STILL IS NOW

also, to hell with literature and art

[Anonymous No.2818679]

>>2818388
>>2818388
>>2818388

patrickstariloveyou.png

[Anonymous No.2818685]

>>2818670
No. Art and literature are incredibly important, you fucking faggot.

[Anonymous No.2818748]

>>2818685
Art is good in that people get to express themself, thinking in creative ways of what is possible, what can be done.
Art in school is "lets make a paper flower for mothers day, here's step-by-step instructions.
Art in school should be "you're going to do something you want to as a form of expression, here's a camcorder, you're going to return a film of you being expressive, paint, costumes and whatever can be borrowed by the school according to needs"

Literature is good because reading, even if just fiction, can be a great source of inspiration, people that don't read don't realize what they miss.
Literature in school is "lets read this classic that is mind-numbingly boring and can't really be appreaciated unless you're over 50 and have nostalgic childhood memories of pre-internet and have had a death in your family of a loved one that you've got over, and then you're going to write an essay on the postmodern message of the book, enjoy."
Literature in school should be "You're going to read a book of 150+ pages that you really want to read(entirely free choice), you're then going to write an essay of the best events in the book and argue if it could be equally good as a movie, because that's what you'll end up doing on the internet anyway"

We forcefeed people shit that puts them off subjects, whatever value art and literature have for society, what good it could do, a lot of people are put off by what they associate with them thanks to the shit school inflicted on them.

[Anonymous No.2818788]

Bump
too good thread to let go to waste

[Anonymous No.2818801]

>>2818788
yeah, only seen it 20 times

[Anonymous No.2818804]

>>2818748
Art in school is far from 'make-an-origami-fish-day', however the sad thing about Art is that you have to read fucking Art History, which is horrible.

Oh Picasso is so artsy and creative and he was the first person to ever draw a fucking cube, Oh so artsy, this is good art and so revolutionary!

IT'S FUCKED TO THE BRIM WITH HIPSTER IDEALS AND FAGGOTRY I WANT TO SCREAM UNTIL BLOOD SHOOTS OUT OF MY EARS

Art is NOT about picturing everything wrong in Society or making a concert where you piss on a tuna for 5 minutes.

[Anonymous No.2818819]

>Literature is good because reading, even if just fiction, can be a great source of inspiration, people that don't read don't realize what they miss.
>Literature in school is "lets read this classic that is mind-numbingly boring and can't really be appreaciated unless you're over 50 and have nostalgic childhood memories of pre-internet and have had a death in your family of a loved one that you've got over, and then you're going to write an essay on the postmodern message of the book, enjoy."
>Literature in school should be "You're going to read a book of 150+ pages that you really want to read(entirely free choice), you're then going to write an essay of the best events in the book and argue if it could be equally good as a movie, because that's what you'll end up doing on the internet anyway"

I love you man, here have some Devo

[Anonymous No.2818825]

Umm, nothing super unconventional but, I'd suggest my own education.

K-8 (until high school, gymnasium, whatever you do when you're 14ish) with Jesuit priests/nuns who instruct you with ruthless precision. You start taking notes in 2nd grade, you're instructed in martial arts (we'll import shao-lin monks, fencing instructors, whatever), you're drilled on geography, learn algebra in 6th grade, and work up to geometry by 8th.

High School is boarding and a military affair. You can learn things like pilot training, scuba diving, etc. You're offered the best in instruction and your reading list is VERY heavy. Summers are spent on break, but you're actually enrolled in one form of special program or another. One year of your high school, you travel to another country to study in their language at their schools. History, physics, math, etc. are all in your chosen foreign language. The military side of high school involves basic tactics and military drill. Students/cadets are assigned rank and fulfill command functions within their units.

College depends on your desired end result. If you want normal citizens, then it's a pretty normal college experience. If you want super soldiers, then it's more language training, military drill, and physical training. For me, college was a normal thing where you join a frat, study, drink, party, bang women, and generally enjoy life while still getting shit done. Your hypothetical 10,000 students should also conduct research into their chosen subjects. Practical lab experience or whatever its equivalent is. Internships during the summers are a given.

[Anonymous No.2818829]

>>2818804
>Art is that you have to read fucking Art History
We actually never had that. Or well, some lectures one of our teachers insisted on showing retardedly old movies, but generally the art classes were relaxed with some task to do that you were given excess time to finish, i liked it.
Unfortunately i was a moron and didn't continue with art after HS, thought i had to be something more employablee but only ended up as a dropout anyhow.

[Anonymous No.2818878]

>>2818829
I actually liked art and art history. I sucked at making art, but I really absorbed the art history/appreciation instruction. It hasn't really been useful in any way, but it's certainly made life more enjoyable. I can identify periods of art, historic significance, specific artists.

It doesn't really have any application towards economic productivity, but humans aren't eusocial insects, we need culture and art to live a full life.

[Anonymous No.2818905]

>>2818829
At my school we had both Art History and Art Nowadays (I can't translate subject names). It was so much shit I was constipated for 3 years.
The first was 50% ancient art and ASSUMPTIONS of how their societies were and 50% was Dark Ages.

However, that is nothing compared to the latter, this was the most horrifying shit I have ever had to go through with, and it didn't help that my teacher was a rabid feminist, leftie hag of the hippie movement talking about how good Art should challenge Society and everything we believe.

[Anonymous No.2818909]

>>2818905
Oh and the worst parts, we read more about music and paintings than we played music, and it was a High School specialized in Music.

[Anonymous No.2818943]

>>2818296
>Start school at four years of age and specialize them to university degrees directly.
Something to add:
Start with basic math, mother language and a foreign language.
At 7 add some martial arts and mind excercises.
At 8 add geography and history so they get basic understanding about the world and how it works.
At 9 add arts and literature.
At 10 remove arts, literature, geography and history. Add grammar and teach them how to express themselves.
At 11 they should know enought for a 15 years old atm. Start with the hard things:
Physics, Biology and Chemistry.
At 14 they will go to High school, keeping Physics, Bio, Chem, Maths and the martial arts, adding Astrology, Philosophy and Psychology.
At 16 start teaching them how to live without their parents and how to survive in the current system.
And the rest doesn't need changing.

[Anonymous No.2818948]

Conventional USA education up to grade 10

Several placement tests throughout the course of a month or two are taken. These test essentially decide your future schooling.

For example, John is an intelligent boy. But he's just not set out for college and the kind of career you get out of that. So the test recommends he does an apprenticeship. His parents, him and his guidance counselor (by the by, the counselors are with the child for his whole education) meet and discuss his future. They decide he wants to do the apprenticeship and he looks at a long list of any given job.


The people get sorted into their niches and are generally more efficient workers. You wouldn't impose the test's decision on them; they still have the power to do whatever they want. The test just guides them.

[Anonymous No.2818978]

Everyone seems to be ignoring literacy.

[Anonymous No.2818980]

>>2818943
Also they think that knowing a lot and studying is uncool and only nolifers do it (well, actually thats not that wrong). This is the only thing that needs to get changed and the world IQ will jump with atleast 10.

[Anonymous No.2818984]

Six subjects
English
Maths
Physics
Biology
Chemistry
ICT/Computing

Everything else is shit tier and can fuck off

[Anonymous No.2819043]

Since I have a hard-on for Piaget I'd do what he says.

Don't teach the kids, guide them through their education. Otherwise you get all this resentment towards anything to do with learning.

I was homeschooled and pretty much left to my own devices. I found the internet and started teaching myself most things. If I ran into a problem I'd ask for help and my parents/teachers would point me in the right direction.

Aside from coming off as a little spergy every now and then I'm fine.

[Anonymous No.2819045]

>>2818984

Yeah, medicine, foreign languages and law are totally worthless.

[Anonymous No.2819054]

>>2818282
>casual sex
>girl friend material

herpa derp

not only are you stupid but will make entire society fucking trash

[Anonymous No.2819091]

>>2818943
>adding Astrology

>Whatthefuckamireading.jpeg

[Voodoo No.2819176]

The most successful education system is one that encourages curiosity and an intrinsic motivation to learn. If your students have no desire to learn, then they will only memorize what they are told and will be unable to innovate and falter in post academic life.

The school environment in my ideal education system is one of structured collaboration. The teacher is a facilitator of knowledge acquisition, not a walking lecture machine.

Heavy use of teamwork and self tutoring class populations. Classroom is divided into multiple round tables, instead of individual desk.

Constant forced shifts in seating assignments to prevent social stagnation and encourage cross pollination of ideas (read: true diversity)

None of this grading bullshit. A shift to a proficiency system will enable educators to view student progress through individual subtopics and allow the students to focus on issue that are more difficult for them, and spend less time on topics that they can easily grasp.

This isn't a move away from testing, in fact this system will have far more tests and quizzes. However, the system will use tests as a teaching tool, not merely as assessment. How can you learn from your mistakes if you aren't being given the opportunity to make them as much as possible?

[Voodoo No.2819180]

>>2819176
Subjects progress through a hierarchy of interconnected abilities. You won't be reading history books until you're able to actually read and understand them.

>Entry to education
Reading
Basic math (arithmetic)
Curiosity studies (colors, shapes *non math, music)
Recess / free time

>Early years
Reading / writing / spelling
Basic math (arithmetic / multiplication & division / fractions)
Basic geometry (shapes and simple multiplication impact)
Science (intro to physical sciences)
Curiosity studies (art, computers, music)
Gym / physical training
Recess / free time

>Middle years
Reading / writing / grammar
Math (multiplication & division / order of operations / into to exponents & roots)
Science (physical science basics)
Gym / physical training
Curiosity studies (art / computers / music / sports)
Recess / free time

>Later years
Reading / writing / grammar / 2nd language
History / Literature
Government / World studies
Home economics (Cooking, Maintenance, basic economics)
Math (Algebra, geometry)
Science (specialized science classes)
Personal fitness training
Curiosity studies (art / computers / music / sports / humanities)
Free time

>Pre-freedom (final phase of compulsive education: high-school juniors & seniors)
Writing / grammar / research / 2nd language
History / World studies
Governments / Local Government (How to use government services like: secretary of state, selective services, voter initiatives, etc.) / Basic law
Home economics / Personal finance
Math (Algebra / Trig / Calculus *based on proficiency)
Sciences (specialized classes selected by interests)

>Continuing education
pending further inquiry