European court oks crucifixes in classrooms

[Anonymous No.2798411]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gNxQE9BQNENvWThGmiqKeTXl9k0Q?docId=c0c9fe02aea44f8
eb952980f8acdccfb

So much for Americans being retrograde Bible-thumping fanatics.

[Anonymous No.2798454]

Reminds me of that Irish anti-blasphemy law. Richard D. was sure pissed.

[Anonymous No.2798465]

What... what?
What?
QUOI?

[Anonymous No.2798496]

of course. had to be fuckin italy.

those faggots make me rage so much.

did you hear about that American chick who got arrested in italy for murder, and is now in jail for like 20 years.

it was SOOOOO retarded. it was OBVIOUS a nigger did it, he even admitted it, but some faggot ass italian prosecutor comes up with some retarded story about how she was participating in some satanic sex ritual, and goes on a fucking witch hunt.

italians confirmed for niggers of europe.

[Anonymous No.2798490]

>>2798411


Yeah, trying to get creationism taught on an equal footing to evolution is on the same level of Bible-Thumpage as being allowed to wear crosses in school.

[Anonymous No.2798497]

God damn it... These kind of shit makes me want to donate again to Dawkin's foundation.

[Anonymous No.2798514]

No matter how much they say Europe is becoming secularized, the place still has that legacy of a state church that cannot be overcome. Not to mention being the home of the RCC.

[Anonymous No.2798555]

Saw a map once of the most and least religious countries in Europe.

Most:

Ukraine
Poland
Italy
Ireland
Portugal
Romania

Least:

Norway
Finland
Netherlands
Czech Republic
Estonia

[Anonymous No.2798586]

>>2798555
>>2798514

Italy and Ireland are both countries where the RCC wields huge influence.

[Anonymous No.2798607]

>>2798411

And Germany has mandatory religious studies in schools from what I hear.

[Anonymous No.2799962]

>>2798607
now voluntary
has been replaced by ethics

[Anonymous No.2800692]

>>2798454
That law was badly named, if you read it properly it's really a law against inciting hatred.

[Anonymous No.2800713]

>>2798411

I'm atheist myself but I agree with this. You people don't know the scenario leading to this.

Here's how it goes. Crucifixes are part of government building in every city with Christian heritage. More of a tradition than anything. Then an Muslim mother comes a long and demands that all crucifixes be banned from everywhere because here child might get offended! It not a question of religion.

[Anonymous No.2800732]

>>2800713

>Here's how it goes. Crucifixes are part of government building in every city with Christian heritage. More of a tradition than anything. Then an Muslim mother comes a long and demands that all crucifixes be banned from everywhere because here child might get offended! It not a question of religion.

It's more of a move against religion than for it. I.e. nobody get's give a shit if you are religiously offended. You can't ban something because somebody else is religiously offended.

[Anonymous No.2800742]

So it's now legal to put big lower case ts in yourope? Fuck yerah

[Anonymous No.2800752]

What a big shock for atheist : a piece of wood ! in a classroom !

[Anonymous No.2800763]

>>2800752

Funny thing is that you hear much more outrage from atheists in the US over stuff like this than in Europe. Here, they go ballistic over public Manger scenes. Over there "Eh, even if I disagree with it, it's still a cultural tradition."

[Anonymous No.2800772]

Well goddamn, for once those bureaucratic PC fucks have made the right call.

I'm Polish, atheist and dont give a fuck if the crucifix is in a public place. Why wouldn't it be? It's a very important historical symbol and part of tradition, harmless to uphold.

I doubt the church had more influence in any other european country but that is now a thing of the past. Even when they were riding the euphoria wave after the fall of communism (largely brought about through the efforts of the church which worked as a focal point for the opposition bet u didnt know that Mr. Edgy atheist)
I've never had religion forced on me in any way and my family was pretty conservative.

If anything its the butthurt teenage atheist that now pisses me off - the church will wither and die but these douchebags are here to stay.

TL;DR Who gives a fuck? Live and let live atheists.

[Anonymous No.2800781]

>>2800772

As someone pointed out in this thread, the RCC still has tons of political influence in Italy and Ireland (ie. the anti-blasphemy law in the latter).

[Anonymous No.2800786]

>>2800772
>It's a very important historical symbol
No it's not. If it was important it wouldn't be harmless.
>I've never had religion forced on me in any way and my family was pretty conservative.
why do you think your case is universal ?

[Anonymous No.2800796]

This was a religion vs religion situation. Had the EU decided to ban crucifixes, that would have meant that now you can ban public shit because you are religiously offended by it.

[Anonymous No.2800801]

>>2800786

Dude, we should be thankful that there's some tolerant atheists out there, but that's not good enough for the Dawkins brigade. I guess our Polish friend there is an Uncle Tom atheist for not hating and wanting to see religion destroyed.

[Anonymous No.2800809]

>>2800772

Of course the militant atheists dislike the idea of having crucifixes in a Polish classroom. The RCC was instrumental in liberating Poland from their atheist commie butt buddies.

[Anonymous No.2800836]

>>2800801

Why hate or campaign like an idiot against pointless shit?

Go to a church anywhere in Europe sometime and see who's there. Old people, a few odd middle aged couples and their kids. Some of those Catholic Youth people on top of that.

The spirit of the times is such that religion is on the decline in the west and all we need to do is wait. There are other more important problems out there.

[Anonymous No.2800851]

>>2800836

And this is Europe's future. It's not a pretty one.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.2800855]

>this thread
I thought I walked into /int/. Fuck.

[Anonymous No.2800856]

>>2798490
Americans try and fail to do something terrible so it's worse than Europeans succeeding in doing something less terrible?

[Anonymous No.2800860]

Angerbears gonna anger but in Europe courts are not political. If they deem something acceptable it just means it's not illegal.

[Anonymous No.2800871]

>>2800851

You know why that's so?

Europe is infested with those hippy fucks who grew up during cultural revolutions in france in the late sixties etc. and they believe every minority is a special snowflake and its crucial to protect them.

So they dont promote those people integrating and assimilating into our way of life, and contributing like anyone else - but straight up encourage them to keep their lifestyle from their old countries which plainly doesn't fucking work in a western setting, if it works at all.

It's some kind of a gigantic guilt complex on our part and I'm sure smarter people than me will be writing books about it in a hundred years.

It's not the religious people or religious thinking that are at fault here at all.

[Anonymous No.2800873]

>>2800860
> implying soviet union was not in europe
> implying belarus is not in europe
> implying russia is not in europe

[Anonymous No.2800882]

>>2800871

[Anonymous No.2800892]

>>2800871

Right. The '60s leftist movements ushered in outright socialism in Europe, which destroyed people's religious faith (as socialism inevitably always does). They became nihilistic, self-indulging scoundrels who are now set to become the servants of the new Islamic caliphate that's coming.

[Anonymous No.2800902]

>>2800892
>>2800871

Go fuck yourselfs. Fucking retards.

[Axel the Possum No.2800903]

>>2800860

This. It just means schools can put up the symbol. I highly doubt they will, largely, and parents who complain will have every right to do so.

[Anonymous No.2800907]

>>2800892

I think it was more of a wannabe socialist system which made them think it can really work at a time when fully socialist eastern bloc countries were beginning to experience the first signs of their systems finally collapsing.

[Anonymous No.2800914]

>>2800902

Don't like hearing the truth, eh bitch?

[Anonymous No.2800916]

>>2800902

What we wrote isn't even open to debate. It's a fact commonly accepted here in Europe. You hear this all the time in the media and more and more people realise this.

It's just that no one has a clear idea of how to fix it yet.

Your response indicates a liberal american youth who, due to lack of any reasonable arguments resorts to insults and in the end sages the thread as if it actually mattered and wasn't just a sign of buttrage.

[Anonymous No.2800924]

>>2800916

No, I am a conservative European youth. I also hate the retarded xenophobic bullshit you are spewing.

There is no left-wing conspiracy against the white race. There is no promotion of non-integration. There is no race war. There is no conflict. There is no "guilt". There is no "rise of Islam". There is no "socialist Europe".

[Anonymous No.2800942]

>>2800892

Please stop watching Glenn Beck, both for your sake and ours.

[Anonymous No.2800950]

>>2800924

So when Merkel (chancellor of germany ) said it out loud that multiculturalism is dead and doesn't work it was all my xenophobic wet dream? Goddamn, Angela Merkel is the last fucking thing I would expect in a wet dream.

Also where was I being xenophobic or racist or hateful anywhere in what I wrote.

Pointing out the flaws of a bureaucratic system is racism now? Oh lawd you people are incredible.

[Anonymous No.2800964]

>>2800892
>Implying that you're not trolling

Capitalism and Christianity are incompatible.

[Anonymous No.2800972]

>>2800871
This is a well thought out post, and as a Canadian, I'm starting to see signs of too much multiculturalism here.

>>2800892

This is a retard

[Anonymous No.2800974]

>>2800964

I know, I know, I know. Jesus was a communist. Blah, blah, blah. I've heard it all before.

[Anonymous No.2800973]

>>2800950
> massive confirmation bias

[Anonymous No.2800984]

>>2800950

Multiculturalism is a word and nothing more. It has never meant anything. It has never existed outside political debate. If Merkel says that it doesn't exist in Germany, then why are you discussing it?

Why are you saying that the immigrants' way of life is incompatible to ours when 99% of them adopt OUR way of life upon arrival?

You are not European. You are an American who have watched a couple of YouTube videos from fascist groups and are now suddenly an expert on Europe.

The real and decent conservative parties of Europe are dedicated to tax cuts and increased indivudual responsibibilty and freedom.

There are a few smaller parties that are in fact nothing more than socialist parties who want to return to the old system of an extensive welfare state but for WHITES ONLY.

Glenn Beck calls that conservatism and right-wing. I call it bullshit.

[Anonymous No.2800995]

>>2800974
Not just Jesus dude. Even in the old testament God was a Commie, and not the peace seeking European socialist kind. The dictatorial kind.

[Anonymous No.2801007]

Is this /sci or /new I'm reading?

[Anonymous No.2801014]

>>2801007

yeah, the better threads on /new were like this

But what's wrong with discussing stuff in a *mostly* civil manner?

[Anonymous No.2801026]

>>2801014
1. It isn't civil, this thread is full of angry aspies and name-callers

2. Most people ITT appear uneducated and this thread is shit

3. This thread is shitting up this board. We want to discuss science and threads not about science should not be here.

[Anonymous No.2801035]

>>2800984
Not the guy you linked to, but not all Countries have an immigrant population that seeks to integrate. Look at Muslims in France, they continually in act in civil disobedience, so that France will adopt Islamic type of laws.(Not full Sharia, but a derivative of it) This does bother me, not in a sense that it would directly affect my rights or beliefs, but because most of these people are probably escaping from a terrible tyrannical government, probably controlled by religious leaders. Why would they want those laws, that have presumably oppressed them to a point, where they felt the need to move, as a part of their new home that so graciously accepted them with open arms?

[Anonymous No.2801040]

>>2801035
not the guy you're responding to

but honestly unless you live in france who can say what is really going on? of course the media highlights these things and people bitch about them. it seems pretty likely to me that a majority of muslim immigrants in france are probably pretty normal and don't want sharia and the like, but we never hear about them. everyone loves to focus on bad stuff. it would be like saying asians shouldn't immigrate to america after pointing out the VT shooter or something...even if they retain some of their culture they aren't really harming us. anyways just a thought, I of course don't agree with changing the law for people but I also don't think it's a big deal if they want to still eat their food or whatever.

[Anonymous No.2801048]

>>2801035

The answer is astoundingly simple. They do not want those laws.

So called "muslims" in France do not act in disobedience. Media may broadcast exciting pictures of burning cars from time to time but France is home to over 60 million people. That burning car means nothing.

[Anonymous No.2801053]

>>2799962

"Citizenship" is the new Religious Education in British schools

[Anonymous No.2801078]

>>2801040

That's exactly what I'm saying. Keep your traditions, but don't try to ingrain that in to the minds of your host culture/state. The situation in France though isn't a small number of people though, the muslim community, in their mosques will plan civil demonstrations. During prayer hour, they will literally all go to the streets, and block of roads, and keep people from exiting their houses. Their goal is to have more mosques built, which is fine and all, but expecting them to be built with public funds. Is a reason for French people to be a little annoyed/offended. With that being said though, they are very peaceful, and probably expect the government of France to build them because that's how it was in the middle east. Of course in France, religious institutions are expected to be paid for with private funds, as it is a secular country.

Of course we pay more attention to the radicals, but that's not without warrant.

[Anonymous No.2801093]

>>2801048
I wasn't referring to violent acts. In fact those burning cars, are more than likely the result of college aged children, wanting to riot simply because it's fun.

[Anonymous No.2801104]

>>2801078

You have so much attention to give but so little radicals to give it to that you have to make stuff up.

And you are still confusing YouTube videos with reality.

[Anonymous No.2801123]

>>2801104
That is the reality. My friend did just 4 semesters in Paris and took pictures of these demonstrations.

I'm going to drop the Muslim thing now, because I'm sincerely not trying to talk shit about them.

[Anonymous No.2801129]

>>2801104
All I have to say is that you're ignorant if you believe that a person moving from a place like the middle east, where human freedoms are not necessarily valued, will not experience some culture shock when moving to a secular western nation.

[Anonymous No.2801133]

>>2801123

Did he take pictures of the muslims who weren't in the "demonstrations"? The ones that are just like every other frenchman? The ones that make up the vast majority?

[Anonymous No.2801135]

hahah butthurt intolerant atheistfags everywhere in this thread

[Anonymous No.2801188]

>>2801133
Of course he didn't. It's not the entire Islamic community. I never once said all Muslims in France want the public to fund mosques, in fact I made that clear. I emphasized that they are not violent, that they are demonstrating their right to peaceful protest. The fact that a considerable amount of the community wants this though, does show that proper integration isn't necessarily being met. Is this the muslims fault, I don't think so. If anything it's the government of Frances fault for not having proper programs in place to teach the values of France to all new immigrants, who are probably escaping their country for noble and humane reasons, but are still very used to living in a country where home, politics and religion are very intertwined. That's not just muslims though, that's any group of people.

[Anonymous No.2801196]

>>2801133
>The ones that are just like every other frenchman?

Both of them? They don't get out much. Wine and womanizing are problems for them.

[Anonymous No.2801197]

>Small fucking Cross
>Butthurt everywhere.

Intolerance much?

If you truly are a man or woman of reason, then you will take the symbol for what it is worth.

The Christian sees the cross as a sign of his/her faith.
The Atheist sees the cross as a wooden object with specific dimensions.

The Moron sees the cross and gets offended by it.

ITS A FUCKING DECORATION THAT HAS SYMBOLIC MEANING TO THOSE WHO PRESCRIBE TO A CERTAIN FAITH. IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN THAT FAITH, THEN THERE ISN'T A MESSAGE AND IT IS JUST A FUCKING DECORATION.

Take things for what they are. If you don't...you will find life to be unnecessarily stressful which will ultimately lead to a decline in health taking years off your life unnecessarily.

tl;dr

Its a decoration.............why you so mad?

[Anonymous No.2801199]

>>2801188

France is a modern democracy. There are dozens of different political groups that regularly hold protests and demonstrations in order to further their agenda. The muslim group you're talking about only stands out because it is so small and gets so much attention in American media.

[Anonymous No.2801211]

>>2801199
>I emphasized that they are not violent, that they are demonstrating their right to peaceful protest.

You're probably right, they still show up in considerable numbers.

[Anonymous No.2801218]

>>2801188

What about the communists and nazis in France? Should the government start programs to "re-educate" them too?

That's not how we do things in the free world, bro.

[Anonymous No.2801237]

>>2801218

Of course they should. I'm not saying that we should kill their values and beliefs. Once again, cultural shock. This is basic sociology. New immigrants for a FACT do tend to have problems acclimatizing to a new country. We learned this shit in grade 8 here in Canada.

[AWAKEN No.2801256]

>>2801197
You make a valid point. There was a time when I saw the swastika as what it was... A shape. The peculiar thing is that it gets linked to emotions in people's minds. To wit, you are propably supposing that I am dark and edgy because I brought up the swastika. Nothing of the sort. Symbols have power over people. They can't help but see not the thing in front of them, but the thing associated with it.

Were any reasonable people confronted with someone flaunting their symbol, it wouldn't threaten them. However, as leaders, we can't suppose that everyone will be as rational as us.

[Anonymous No.2801258]

>>2801237

That would be a bit awkward in Europe. With an immigrant friend sitting next to you in the classroom. With his parents being colleagues to your parents. With his free time hobbies and interests being the same as yours.

[Anonymous No.2801280]

>>2801258

It's the same way here in Canada. From my own experience here. My great grandmother was from Hungary, she moved here in the 80's. She herself had a hard time adapting to our culture. The thing with Canada though, is that we're nice. We can say things like immigrants have a hard time adapting, without immigrants getting angry about it. It's part of the political conversation, we're taught they we should preserve their values, and also help them in becoming a Canadian with a cultural understanding that isn't necessarily all kind words.

What would be the hardest part about coming to the free world, from a country with an oppressive regime?

You now have to make sacrifices, because you're living in a true democracy, you can't having everything you want, or what you have become accustomed to. There's no one telling you what to believe, how to act, what you can or can not say. Of course that is hard, when your entire life, you have HAD to live by certain standards.

[Anonymous No.2801292]

>>2801280

That's very different from Europe then. Because people come here exactly because in our democracy they can have everything they want.

[Anonymous No.2801317]

>>2801292
Well, then I guess I was pandering a cause I can't relate to. Even in Europe though, sacrifices are made. You can't have a totally happy liberal and a totally happy conservative. It's just how democracy works.

[Anonymous No.2801330]

>>2801292
Anyways, I'm done with arguing. Thanks for the civil chat. It actually did help me. I'm working on a Socio-403 paper right now, so It did help to get the creative juices flowing.

[Anonymous No.2801336]

>>2798411
There have always been crucifixes in classrooms overhere.
There aren't in public schools. They wont allow any religious items in class in public schools. Not even veils. Which has been a very controversial subject some years back. But katholic schools have loads of them.
And I don't see what's wrong with allowing them in katholic schools. It's more tradition then anything else. They were still run by nuns about 20 years ago. Nobody I know is religious. But we've all been to katholic school because they are considered the best untill college. They are more expensive but there aren't any sandniggers there and have stricter values.
Btw most universities overehre are also katholic.

Belgian here btw.

[Anonymous No.2801361]

Banning display of religious iconography is indicative of an authoritarian state.

[Anonymous No.2801381]

>>2801361

lol Belgian an authoriatarian state?

We don't even have a government. We broke Irak's record of not having one a month back.

The point is integration. Getting the muslims to integrate. Not many Belgians could give a fuck if religious symbols got banned because everyone I know below the age of 40 isn't religious.

[Anonymous No.2801387]

>>2801361
>>2801361

lol Belgium an authoriatarian state?

We don't even have a government. We broke Irak's record of not having one a month back.

The point is integration. Getting the muslims to integrate. Not many Belgians could give a fuck if religious symbols got banned because everyone I know below the age of 40 isn't religious.

[Anonymous No.2801392]

>>2801387

>because everyone I know below the age of 40 isn't religious

Nothing unusual about that. Most young people are not religious unless they really had it drilled into them.