Where does black holes lead?

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Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:05:13 2011 No.2789207 [Reply] [Original]

Where does black holes lead?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:05:13 2011 No.2789210 a new universe

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:07:13 2011 No.2789222 File: 20 KB, 530x360, rainbow road.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] a road you go when you die

>>	Krakengineer !!5XY+x7grkpt Mon Mar 28 15:08:13 2011 No.2789230 They're not actually holes that go anywhere. That's a common misconception. Mass/energy that gets sucked in doesn't go anywhere; it just adds to the mass of the black hole or converts to Hawking Radiation.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:09:13 2011 No.2789235 >>2789230 But Black Holes have no mass. They're the absence of anything and everything.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:09:13 2011 No.2789239 >>2789235 They have mass.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:09:13 2011 No.2789236 In your mom

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:11:13 2011 No.2789251 >>2789207 > Where do black holes lead? Down.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:12:13 2011 No.2789255 >>2789230 It does not convert to Hawking Radiation! That has nothing to do with the mass sucked beyond the event horizon.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:13:13 2011 No.2789260 It'd lead you to the superdense sphere itself think of it as stretching a towel and putting a bowling ball on the middle. the towel would bend downwards.The blackhole is the bowling ball and the towel is the fabric of spacetime.

Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:13:13 2011 No.2789262

>>2789235
That is so horribly horribly wrong. Black holes are simply a place where the escape velocity is greater than the speed of light.

It requires an extraordinary amount of mass in a tiny area to warp space-time this much.

If there were no mass, there'd be no black hole.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:13:13 2011 No.2789264 >>2789207 to a holographic universe hypothesis

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:15:13 2011 No.2789269 >>2789260 good description. (+1)

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:17:13 2011 No.2789277 >>2789262 From what I understood, so much pressure creates a literal rip in space and time, which is why it's called a hole.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:18:13 2011 No.2789283 File: 28 KB, 368x294, BlackHole[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Why do they call them black holes, and not dark stars? Sounds way cooler, and it gives the right description of it

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:23:13 2011 No.2789315 >>2789283 I believe it was so-named in the same way the Big Bang was. Someone wanted to give it a deriding name and chose one that didn't accurately describe it. Initially people didn't want to believe something so horrific could possibly exist.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:23:13 2011 No.2789313 >>2789283 They're not stars anymore

Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:24:13 2011 No.2789317

in a region where spacetime is so stretched that time is at a standstill compared to the outside of the black hole
and gravity is so strong that all the matter is packed just next to each other overcoming the electromagnetic, weak and probably strong force

it's like matter is archived to take less space

i'm not sure if that's possible but maybe it gets so dense that it resembles a point (this would imply that all black holes have the same size event horizon)

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:25:13 2011 No.2789324 >>2789277 Nope. There's no actual "hole". That's highly misleading. The same way there was no "bang" at the big bang.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:26:13 2011 No.2789330 >>2789235 >But Black Holes have no mass Can I get some of whatever you're smoking?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:26:13 2011 No.2789331 >>2789317 The center is one 'dot' with infinite density and a certain mass, the mass defines the size of the event horizon for the biggest part.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:27:13 2011 No.2789341 >>2789324 >The same way there was no "bang" at the big bang. What?!

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:28:13 2011 No.2789344 >>2789313 yeah well you could technically say the same thing about neutron stars

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:29:13 2011 No.2789348 >>2789324 Then I'm either remembering it wrong or that lecture was a load of bullshit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:29:13 2011 No.2789349 >>2789344 Yeah, but I never said that I didn't think that's a wrong name

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:30:13 2011 No.2789353 >>2789341 What? Space itself is expanding, it was no explosion. lrn2doppler

Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:30:13 2011 No.2789352

if you were to take a small volume of material from a black hole (or a neutron star for purpose's sake) and move that small amount away from the gravitational influence of the main body, what would happen?

since the mass is so condensed would the small bit that you took start to expand like a balloon or would it stay super-dense?

Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:31:13 2011 No.2789359

>>2789348
Well, it's likely you're remembering right. I'm purely amateur when it comes to astronomy, but I'm in an astronomy course right now and it's asinine how dumbed-down and just flat-out wrong this information is. To really get at the meat of astronomy, you need to take physics. The courses you get that are general-survey tend to just...I don't know, it's like they don't even care if you learn nearly false information as long as you kinda-ish get that something crazy is going on.

Almost 99% sure it's not your fault if you got wrong info out of an astronomy course.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:31:13 2011 No.2789362 >>2789331 Wrong. There is no point in the universe with infinite density. Once again this is popular science getting things wrong.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:32:13 2011 No.2789365 >>2789353 That's like saying "fire itself burning" therefore there was no match. lrn2random effect that doesn't support your conclusion.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:32:13 2011 No.2789366 >>2789362 Explain

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:32:13 2011 No.2789369 to the outer darkness

Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:33:13 2011 No.2789371

>>2789352
Now THAT is a really interesting question. I would imagine that the internal pressures would overcome the gravity, but I could never prove this.

My thought experiment always tend towards what would happen to the earth if someone had a bottle of Neutron star material and they somehow teleported it into the center of Manhattan.

But would the shit really just stay in that form? Good question

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:33:13 2011 No.2789372 File: 117 KB, 350x336, 1290186018717.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Other dimensions!

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:33:13 2011 No.2789373 >>2789341 It was a rapid expansion like a balloon, not an explosion.

Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:33:13 2011 No.2789375

A black hole is a singularity (cause by a lot of mass compressing under it's own grabity) shrouded by an event horizon. It's not "a dense sphere", it's a region of spacetime. It's useful to talk about the event horizon as the black hole itself, because beyond the event horizon events (duh) are casually disconnected to the universe. The event horizon's radius is proportional to the mass of a black hole.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:33:13 2011 No.2789376 To aids.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:34:13 2011 No.2789377 >>2789207 Black holes lead to Hamburger Time.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:35:13 2011 No.2789383 >>2789352 i would think it would not change, but also, could not be moved

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:37:13 2011 No.2789391 >>2789365 No it's not. It's nothing like that. I can't explain it better than here though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo&t=10m4s lrn2told

Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:37:13 2011 No.2789393

>>2789366

The singularity is a total misconception. All that a black hole is is an object which is dense enough so that enough gravity pulls at a certain place so as the escape velocity exceeds the speed of light. The actual density may be very low. For example, the largest black hole discovered (18.4 billion solar masses) has a density less than that of water.

Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:39:13 2011 No.2789402

>>2789383
>>2789371
i ask because i was thinking the other day of what would happen if two neutron stars collided at extremely high relative speed.

i'm inclined to believe that some mass would be ejected from both bodies due to the force of the collision and those pieces might still have the kinetic energy to escape the gravity of the fused star. however, imagining what happens to those pieces is kind of weird. i was inclined to believe the dense bits would expand but then an outside observer would see this collision as causing huge amounts of matter to form out of essentially nowhere due to the rapid expansion.

Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:40:13 2011 No.2789404

What I don't understand is why people think when you go "into" a black hole, you're entering a ... portal or something. A black hole is only an extremely dense piece of mass. If you were to enter it, your particles would be crushed and stacked onto every other object as anything else would. What do black holes come from? Stars collapsing. COLLAPSING. All of the matter being compressed together. The way I understand it, it's just an infinitely dense star that can't shine due to its extreme gravitational force.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:40:13 2011 No.2789407 >>2789365 Lrn2quantumfluctuation

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:42:13 2011 No.2789415 >>2789365 See kids? This is what happens when idiots who don't understand the math talk.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:42:13 2011 No.2789416 >>2789404 IT IS NOT INFINITELY DENSE. FOR FUCK'S SAKE WILL PEOPLE STOP PERPETUATING THIS.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:44:13 2011 No.2789421 >>2789416 To add: The rest of what you said was correct, though. The "singularity" is the extremely dense mass. Its gravity is proportional to its volume^2/3 I believe. Therefore black holes can have low densities.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:44:13 2011 No.2789425 >>2789421 *3/2 not 2/3

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:45:13 2011 No.2789428 >>2789404 You understand it wrong. ITT: people who don't know physics.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:45:13 2011 No.2789426 >>2789404 black holes occur from having too much mass in a region. If you filled a sphere with a radius the size of the solar system with a gas at STP, it would form a black hole.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:46:13 2011 No.2789430 >>2789393 Now you're just talking shit, that would mean a volume of 1.989x10^11 lightyears

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:47:13 2011 No.2789433 >>2789426 Thank you. Someone who actually understands that its neither density nor mass that are key, but the ratio between them.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:47:58 2011 No.2789435 >>2789426 is the mass of a black hole measurable?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:48:58 2011 No.2789438 >>2789430 Not 18.4 billion solar volumes, 18.4 billion solar masses you fucktard. It has a Schwarzschild radius of around the distance of Neptune from the Sun I believe.

Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:49:58 2011 No.2789441

>>2789402
i don't think they could generate sufficient energy translated into escape velocity; they would be fighting not only their own gravity well but the combined gravity wells; anything that could escape would probably be massless, and even then, wouldn't escape.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:49:58 2011 No.2789443 File: 7 KB, 300x300, Stop-Copies-Me.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2789377 stop copies me

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:50:58 2011 No.2789444 >>2789435 Mass is the only property of a black hole that IS measurable.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:50:58 2011 No.2789445 >>2789430 Where the shit did you get that number from? If that was meant to be meters, not lightyears, then that looks in the correct region. See >>2789438

Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:50:58 2011 No.2789446

>>2789428

I never claimed I knew physics. That is just what I learned in high school and various documentaries. Based on that, what I said was that I don't get how people believe a black hole could be a portal, or something of the sort, to something/somewhere.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:50:58 2011 No.2789447 >>2789341 SERIOUSLY WTF?!

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:51:58 2011 No.2789449 >>2789435 In the same way the mass of other massive objects in the universe are.

Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:52:58 2011 No.2789453

>>2789255
"EVENTUALLY" it does yea - all matter inside black holes, after an absolutely absurd amount of time, are emitted as hawking radiation and the black hole "evaporates."
>>2789277
No. Spacetime's curvature is "infinite" but it never "tears."
>>2789341
Yea, "the big bang" is a misleading title because it implies an explosion. The creation of the universe wasn't an explosion.
>>2789352
Ignoring the fact that this is impossible, it would depend on how much matter you took out. If there was enough, you'd have a second, smaller singularity. If the amount was small enough, I would imagine that it would remain as a very dense, very small object similar to a white dwarf. Without the immense gravity of a black hole, i would imagine that it would expand to a larger size. It may even explode as you suggest, but we don't actually know what happens to matter when it's compressed the way it is inside a black hole - it may behave according to entirely different rules to what we're familiar with once it's been crushed to be so close together.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:52:58 2011 No.2789454 >>2789444 lrn2physics. Schwarzschild radius Density etc. etc.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:54:58 2011 No.2789460 >>2789453 You are correct on the first point. He seemed to imply that some of it was instantly converted (which I guess an infinitesimal amount would be).

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:55:58 2011 No.2789465 >>2789207 The truth is that nobody knows where they lead.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:56:58 2011 No.2789473 >>2789465 You understand the whole spacetime 2 dimensional fabric thing is just a means of explaining the mechanics of relativity, right? There is no "hole", like in OP's pic.

Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:57:58 2011 No.2789477

>>2789465
That's bullshit. We don't know what HAPPENS inside, but we know what black holes are - matter. That matter does NOT "go anywhere" - it's still measurable in magnitude as well as location. It exists in our universe, which would make sense then that it doesn't exist in another universe or a different place in time or any of that bullshit.

Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:58:58 2011 No.2789480

>>2789446
Maybe you can take a shortcut by traveling through the bent spacetime around the event horizon
>>2789453
The big bang WAS an explosion
The proof for it was the left over radioactivity that was accidentally picked up from a radio receiver
Why did you think they called it the BIG BANG

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:58:58 2011 No.2789485 Black hole=very dense, very massive astronomical body. That's just like a star or a planet.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:59:58 2011 No.2789486 >>2789480 Rapid expansion is not the same as an explosion. The reason for high temperatures and chaos was the pressure.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 15:59:58 2011 No.2789488 >>2789480 u so troll

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 16:01:58 2011 No.2789501 >>2789480 No. The big bang triggered explosions, as the developing atoms were pressed together with enough energy to cause atomic fission, but the event itself was not an explosion. How's high school science working for you?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 16:01:58 2011 No.2789498 >>2789485 Nope. It just has to have a high enough mass to density ratio so as the escape velocity at certain points exceeds c.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 16:01:58 2011 No.2789499 >>2789393 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penrose–Hawking_singularity_theorems

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 16:02:58 2011 No.2789505 >>2789486 Pressure doesn't cause radiation

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 16:03:58 2011 No.2789510 >>2789501 >troll replying to his trolling detected

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 16:03:58 2011 No.2789513 >>2789505 yes it does.

Anonymous Mon Mar 28 16:04:58 2011 No.2789519

>>2789331
Most of the physicists don't believe there is actually a true singularity in the center of the black hole, rather than some quantum gravity effects smooths it out.
If you think about it, having a real mathematical singularity in nature is quite crazy thing. All the singularities we encounter in physics are results of approximations and simplifications, so if there truly was a singularity in space time, enveloped in event horizon, but still, it would be pretty crazy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 16:05:58 2011 No.2789525 >>2789498 I do not think OP was refering tho anything else than astronomical black holes, but I agree.

Anonymous Mon Mar 28 16:06:58 2011 No.2789528

>>2789505
Enough pressure causes atoms to fuse together, releasing huge amounts of energy, as in hydrogen bombs. Most stars aren't hot enough to sustain fusion reactions initially - it's the fact that everything is under such enormous pressure from the mass of the object that the first reactions occur. On earth for example, we're trying to replicate fusion as a power source, and in order for the reactions to occur, they need to have about 20 times the energy as in the sun, if i remember right, just because the "pressure" is so much lower.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 16:06:58 2011 No.2789532 To a really hot place. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYKyt3C0oT4

Anonymous Mon Mar 28 16:06:58 2011 No.2789533

>>2789473
>>2789477
I know. I also understand that there is the possibility that some of them are one extremity of a higher-genus feature of the manifold that universe is, which can be vulgarized as "somewhere they lead". Even if, I think everyone knows this, it is not a 3D hole matter can travel through.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 16:06:58 2011 No.2789534 >>2789505 It does when it's high enough and being applied to matter.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 16:08:58 2011 No.2789543 File: 17 KB, 210x296, naked singularity.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] The ultimate trap card

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 16:11:58 2011 No.2789557 Is there something so bad about infinities in nature? What about the bare electron charge?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 16:13:58 2011 No.2789565 >>2789557 Infinite quantity is not finite. Thus it can affect the whole universe uniformly : this is bad

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 16:15:58 2011 No.2789577 there is so much derping in this thread my head hurts

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 16:29:58 2011 No.2789621 File: 26 KB, 223x310, Image..jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2789543 That is a REALLY bad card. Even with pic related. Sage for no contribution.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 28 23:05:58 2011 No.2791691 They don't lead anywhere, they create.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 29 00:30:58 2011 No.2792057 >>2789207 To a place where quantum mechanics and general relativity converge.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 29 00:30:58 2011 No.2792061 A super dense mass.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 29 00:32:58 2011 No.2792072 A 2d universe on the event horizon.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 29 00:33:58 2011 No.2792075 >>2792057 I lol'd

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 29 00:37:58 2011 No.2792089 File: 499 KB, 500x375, mfwomfg.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2792072 >Mfw we are all just part of a computer simulation

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 29 10:38:58 2011 No.2793987 Black holes are just a place with biliions of G's so even light bends back on it self, it doesn't lead to anywhere it just crushes you

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 29 10:41:58 2011 No.2793998 where does planets lead?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 29 11:39:58 2011 No.2794268 File: 253 KB, 518x768, Trollatar.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >implying black holes are made of lead

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