Puma Punku

[Anonymous No.2781172]

NOTE: Posting in /sci/ because everyone else on here lacks cognitive thought.

Brief:
-Large stone structures dating back to 14,000 B.C.
-Thought to be impossible to build with current technology
-Rewrites history books about when and how man made transition to hunter gatherer to specialization
-Questions how much human history has been lost

Discuss

[Anonymous No.2781179]

>mfw "thought to be impossible to build with current technology"

>media fucking going bat shit crazy cuz some fucked up aichent civilization sold their country to make a few square shaped stones

[Anonymous No.2781184]

>cannot create few square shaped stones

> looks at modern creations such as international space station, and dubai structures

[Anonymous No.2781195]

Stone estimated to weigh up to 440tons. Rock used: granite and diorite. Not just stone blocks...

[Anonymous No.2781200]

Why does it say HnH

[Anonymous No.2781203]

>>2781195

>>Gotthard Base rail tunnel
>>fucking we poor concrete thats fucking 100000 tons
>>fuck you

[Anonymous No.2781206]

Also on a larger note: 14,000 B.C. Sumerian civilization(debatable) started as early as 6,000 B.C..

[Anonymous No.2781211]

>>2781195

DO WE HAVE GRANITE STUFF ?
>yes, countertops and lincoln memorial, etc

DO WE HAVE STUFF THAT WEIGHTS >440 TON
>YES

[Anonymous No.2781215]

> dating back to 14,000 BC

Does anyone know exactly how they date stone structures like this?

How would you be able to know the date when a rock was carved? The rock itself is old as fuck, but how do we know how long they've been funny shapes?

[Anonymous No.2781216]

>>2781203
Not with 14,000 B.C. stone and wood tools you don't.

[Anonymous No.2781217]

>>2781215
>people in white lab coats who make 500k a year, make up bullshit to get paid

[Anonymous No.2781223]

>>2781216

>>-Thought to be impossible to build with current technology

>>Not with 14,000 B.C. stone and wood tools you don't.

>mfw

[Anonymous No.2781224]

>>2781215
The dating process has to do with how long edges of the stone have been exposed.

[Anonymous No.2781230]

>>2781216

I imagine in 14,000BC there was at least ONE aspie who lived in the village whose job it was to make stuff. And when he wasn't making stuff like sharp rocks he wanted to make smooth rocks.

15 years later he finished his Magnum Opus piece, titled "HNH", after the sound he made after ingesting too much meat one night, and it was unveiled to the tribe.

His masterpiece has now been rediscovered.

[Anonymous No.2781234]

Also interesting point. Puma Punku is not recognized as a culture hearth. But the Mayan Civilization is.

[Anonymous No.2781243]

>>2781230

[Anonymous No.2781245]

I find it interesting that most archeologists think that everything written in ancient texts is bullshit. Yes, all that people did for thousands upon thousands of years was make shit up so they can troll future generations of people. Although that would explain 4chan.

[Anonymous No.2781246]

>>2781230
>Hey Oog, what's up?
>Not much Uug. I'm bored
>Want to hunt Mammoths
>Nah.
>Want to build a giant stone monument
>Sure

Then someone discovered alcohol.

[Anonymous No.2781256]

>>2781245

That the Peruvian civilisations developed literacy is a dubious claim in itself.

[Anonymous No.2781264]

> inb4 we find out there was an ancient civilization long ago that had all kinds of crazy technology including computers and internet and cars and huge expensive machines that can cut stones into squares but there's no evidence of them because they all got melted by a volcano

[Anonymous No.2781270]

>>2781256
There is no evidence of the people who created these structures.

[Anonymous No.2781271]

Op is fucking retarded for saying we cant make these structures with
>modern day technology
then after getting beaten, argue that
>you cant do it with 14,000 stone tools

[Anonymous No.2781272]

Stuff like this inspires me.

[Anonymous No.2781277]

>mfw time travelers are trolling us.

[Anonymous No.2781281]

>>2781270

What does that have to do with archeologists ignoring ancient texts that don't exist?

[Anonymous No.2781286]

>>2781271
I'm pretty sure they are referring to the precision and accuracy with which the cuts on the stones were made. Most of which are perfect angles which we ourselves, in most cases, are hard pressed to do on construction projects of that size.

[Anonymous No.2781296]

>>2781271
Erm... Did not say that. Comment was made that oooooo we build shit way bigger nowa days. And my response was: the things built nowa days aren't built with primitive technology...

Read before talking shit.

[Anonymous No.2781312]

>>2781286
The Chief want's his tomb squared. I think you can afford some extra time and effort to make the angles straight.

[Anonymous No.2781316]

>>2781281
What are you talking about.

The earliest known text is of the sumerian civilization in 3500 B.C. When they went from using shaped clay as record to recording these pieces of clay by carving them into clay tablets.

[Anonymous No.2781317]

>>2781286
So how were they made more than 6 thousand years ago.?
they must have had methods that are unknown to us, like using chemicals that may help in the softening of materials?
whatever they didnt have our technology...

[Anonymous No.2781318]

Levers
Wheel and axles
Pulleys
Inclined planes
Wedges
Screws
Slaves

>implying

[Anonymous No.2781322]

>>2781316

That's swell, but the site in question is in Bolivia.

[Anonymous No.2781323]

>>2781312
Scientist say by today's standard of hard carving this would be impossible without machines.

[Anonymous No.2781327]

>>2781286

That seems like bullshit claim. All it takes is an abrasive substance, patience and a lot of time.

[Anonymous No.2781338]

>>2781317
Yes... That is what is up in the air and contradicts what we think we know about our history.

If we before thought that written language didn't exist until 3500 B.C. and man built these incredible structures what else do we not know.

Also considering we don't even know who built them let alone how.

[Anonymous No.2781344]

Also stone working was done without mortar.

[Anonymous No.2781348]

>>2781200

They knew about hydrogen. Ancient chemistry.

[Anonymous No.2781350]

>>2781338
NOTE: Would be impossible to construct without language.

[Anonymous No.2781351]

>>2781318

[Anonymous No.2781360]

>>2781348
They knew about what? How do you prove they even knew how to write in 10000 B.C.

[Anonymous No.2781373]

>>2781206
i don't think those numbers mean what you think they mean.

[Anonymous No.2781398]

>>2781373
I think you should hit up google and come back to me on that

[Anonymous No.2781411]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hniLIpalieY

found this. should shed light.

[Anonymous No.2781426]

>>2781398
bc counts down to zero

[Anonymous No.2781433]

>>2781426
your an idiot....

[Anonymous No.2781439]

>>2781350
Well, I'm pretty sure people aren't arguing against them having language. Written language is another thing entirely.

[Anonymous No.2781440]

>>2781433
how?

[Anonymous No.2781442]

I dont think its right to say "man transitioned from hunter garthers sooner than we thought"

Hunter-gathers were a lot smarter, healthier, and advanced than I think people give them credit for. Especially scientists who would rather you all think we would be helpless and naked moles dying of diarrhea without their precious discoveries.

[Anonymous No.2781444]

>>2781439
lol but the history books say written language didn't come about till 3500 B.C.

[Anonymous No.2781447]

>>2781433
>your

[Anonymous No.2781449]

ITT: OP´s formulation is shit and creates a shitstorm.

[Anonymous No.2781452]

>>2781442
agreed

[Anonymous No.2781454]

>Thought to be impossible to build with current technology

[Anonymous No.2781463]

>>2781454

current at that time.

can´t scientists read between the lines?

[Anonymous No.2781464]

>>2781442
society/civilization can't advance without convenience that transition brought.

>hunters search for food erryday
>transitionals grew food and pondered the universe erryday

[Anonymous No.2781465]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXjjnaWcIRg

[Anonymous No.2781469]

>>2781465

Oh please not that guy...

[Anonymous No.2781474]

>>2781463

The correct term is "contemporary". Current means now.

[Anonymous No.2781483]

>>2781433
elaborate.

[Anonymous No.2781484]

>>2781474

I know, but that´s what OP clearly meant.

[Anonymous No.2781495]

>>2781464

You shouldnt make assumptions like this.

before you can say H/Gs spent all day hunting you should provide some citations. I once heard the native hawaiians would spend approximately 2 hours a day actually working. Ive heard before that H/Gs only had to spend about 4 hours of real work. Now this is all just stuff I remembered, not real citations, but if you are gathering your food, and gathering is like, your bread and blood you know what plants to eat and where to find them.

There is a guy (whom I have learned a lot from) who goes by Green Dean and he runs a website called eattheweeds.com, he provides lectures about how to identify food. A lot of his videos are just him wandering around his backyard, or around his house. He demonstrates you can find a lot of food, easily just about growing anywhere.

I garden, Ive learned a lot about plants. I have found and eaten wild plants going around my university, just, in the middle of the city.

The unabomber lived in the wild, he had to hunt for all his food, and he managed to write and record an immense amount of journals, write a ton of essays, and build bombs that terrorized the whole nation. While living in the wild.

Its not hard if you know what you are doing.

Now lets jump to the argicultural revolution. Where the food you are growing isnt just your food, its going to feed the whole town. Its very easy to distort the necassary work hours required to survive, when you arent working for yourself. The farmer doesnt say "Im feeding 100 people" he is feeding the town, and how many people are in that town is out of his control.

I think over-work is a continuous problem today. People buy stuff they dont need, because they have money they spent to much time earning, and in exchange they have a shitty job they have to spend too much time at, accomplishing something they dont care about. Quite the contrast between modern life and H/G life.

[Anonymous No.2781498]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmMwo1Xzgus

this is good.

[Anonymous No.2781500]

>>2781484

Clearly you're more fluent in idiot than I am.

[Anonymous No.2781501]

how did they CUT these fucking rocks? someone explain to me

[Anonymous No.2781513]

>>2781501

[Anonymous No.2781514]

>>2781495

>I think over-work is a continuous problem today. People buy stuff they dont need, because they have money they spent to much time earning, and in exchange they have a shitty job they have to spend too much time at, accomplishing something they dont care about. Quite the contrast between modern life and H/G life.

The solution is higher taxes and higher science funding. Not lower working hours.

[Anonymous No.2781516]

>>2781500

Lame, dude.

[Anonymous No.2781515]

>>2781498
I punched myself in the face when I read "reptilians"

[Anonymous No.2781520]

>>2781501
They used alien technology.

[Anonymous No.2781521]

>>2781514

How would raising taxes do anything? Or more science funding?

Frankly, I think there is a case that we have too much science funding.

[Anonymous No.2781524]

>>2781500

Sure, what alternative would i have? Face it, we´re surrounded by idiot´s speaking idiot. We have to learn their logic and language in order to communicate with them.

[Anonymous No.2781531]

>>2781514
Fuck you, it means lower working hours. Nazi.

[Anonymous No.2781532]

>>2781433
welp, gonna need some context as to why...
i'm not arguing anything though, so i may have misinterpreted your post.

[Anonymous No.2781541]

>>2781521

More funding = more shit launched into space.

[Anonymous No.2781553]

>>2781541

Yes, I agree the space program is underfunded. This is the only political opinion I agree with sciencefags about.

But besides that...? Why do we need more science funding? I have four friends who work as researchers at my universities biology department. They just make them into worthless busy bodies. I heard a story from one of my friends, about how there are so many published papers and so many of them completely worthless in their discoveries, that often grad students will write up their thesis on something completely mundane, only to find out a grad student 30 years before them did the same study, came to the same conclusions, and had no impact on anyone.

Its a sad state of affairs. How about, we just research information when we need it, and not just desperately try and discover information as fast as possible. Good science in my opinion is about a better understanding, and application of the knowledge that already exists, and not about quantity.

[Anonymous No.2781560]

>>2781553

>But besides that...?

I don't think you appreciate how much money we can pour into space.

[Anonymous No.2781567]

>>2781560

I dont? I just said I think its underfunded. Am I not understanding you?

[Anonymous No.2781574]

>>2781553
I gotta agree. That's exactly where I'm at. The money is small-time and there are lots of people and groups competing for it, so they spend all their time busily toiling away at some project for the sake of it. No final purpose to the research but "more data". I feel like 'FFS, invent something!" but all they do is "gather data".

[Anonymous No.2781576]

>>2781553
>I heard a story from one of my friends

This aside, quality can circumvent quantity if 1/100 actually do significant research with significant results out of interest. The more people interested, the more likely you are to get meaningful information. Lazy faggots exists everywhere, in every field, we know this.

Funding gives you better equipment, teachers, and access to information. Otherwise you just have a bunch of grad students with their hands in their pockets because they're being taught the same science from the 80s from tenured professors that haven't graded a paper since they were grad students.

[Anonymous No.2781578]

>>2781553
Those are just grad students, not actual researchers.

They have to publish SOMETHING, to get their masters/phds..

[Anonymous No.2781580]

>>2781574

That's not how science works, kid.

[Anonymous No.2781583]

>>2781578

Well whatever. My friends arent grad students. They work as researchers. But I think my example is still sound. Too much research both from those obligated and not obligated.

[Anonymous No.2781598]

bump

[Anonymous No.2781599]

>>2781574
become an engineer.

[Anonymous No.2781871]

>>2781464
Never taken a walk, eh?

[Anonymous No.2782727]

what do you think these people where retarded or something?
given enough time you can do this with barely any tools at all.
These people spent most of their time working with stones, don't you think you would get pretty good after 20 years of doing something?

[Anonymous No.2782743]

ITT: No-one tries to answer the question and spouts off crap that the leaders of their respective camps have decided was true

[Anonymous No.2782747]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju_6_7YJPWE

This guy built a close replica of Stonehenge in his backyard by himself without any modern tools.

Thinking that some smart people couldn't do the same makes little sense.

[Anonymous No.2782761]

Ever seen the show "Life after people"?

That pretty much describes what happened to ancient civilization. Past a few thousand years, only stone structures would be left, so it's anybody's guess exactly how advanced they were.

Ancient Aliens consistently stumbles onto things that would indicate an advanced ancient civilization but write it off as LOL ALEINZ.

[Anonymous No.2782765]

>>2782747
We aren't talking about stonehenge. That's just a pile of rocks. Puma Punku has rocks cut with laser-precision and placed together in interlocking patterns.

[Anonymous No.2782769]

i think OP mistook the word current for contemporary

[Anonymous No.2782773]

>>2782761
Then archaeologists ignore the site because it has connections to ancient aliens theories

[Anonymous No.2782774]

It's a base for the Aryan battle of the Mahabharata. Indians used to be the masterrace flying around in Vimanas. Silly natives thought we're gods. I miss those times..

[Anonymous No.2782775]

>>2782765
the point is that you CAN do "laser" precision with hand tools. You probably never worked with stuff like that if you think otherwise.

[Anonymous No.2782778]

>>2781318
Moving big stones is not hard. Cutting them with such accuracy is.

[Anonymous No.2782787]

>>2782775
You can actually do better than machine precision in certain cases. Sanding down high-precision molds to precise parameters for example.(although it probably involves electronic measuring tools to verify it)

[Anonymous No.2782819]

>ignore the substance of OPs post
>Focus discussion on the word 'current'

stay classy /sci/

seriously you guys are the biggest group of autistic fucktards i've ever seen, and this is coming from someone whos pretty aspie

Anyway, yea we cant explain how these were made using ancient tools and we have no evidence of the people that built them other than these structures. The giant rocks they used were brought in from a quarry miles away.

No idea how that shit happened. A lot of unexplained structures exist

[Anonymous No.2782828]

>>2781172
>Thought to be impossible to build with current technology
>Assuming technology advances in a completely linear fashion, not a series of specialisations and advancements with particular strengths and weaknesses
False premise. Though I would be interested to know what was used to build such things. I've heard everything from rolling logs to giant kites and even bullshit involving acoustic waves.

[Anonymous No.2782829]

>>2782819
we told you how it happened, not in detail but you should be able to fill in the blanks

If your point is that there were developed civilizations around, thats pretty much a certainty. We see evidence of that in our not so distant past all the time.

[Anonymous No.2782830]

Can I be the first one to point out that the only mineral harder than diorite is diamond? Where the fuck are these ancient people going to find diamonds large enough to use as tools, and then implement them as tools?

[Anonymous No.2782841]

>>2782830
>Implying that you need stronger material to work on something
How do you think we cut diamonds?
You can use soft rock. You just need more of it.

[Anonymous No.2782844]

>>2782830
You can cut pretty much everything with everything if you are persistent enough. Surely, one thing they didn't lack back then was time.

[Anonymous No.2782846]

>>2782841
So I can just take a shit-ton of talc and rub it against a diamond and it will cut it? No

[Anonymous No.2782853]

>>2782846
>talc
>rub it
>cut
Good one kid.

[Anonymous No.2782857]

Stonehenge: 2500 B.C.
"Burj Dubai": 2010.

Yeah, no progress...

[Anonymous No.2782858]

>>2782846
>lots of water
>lots of time
>cut stones in half
Why is this so hard to understand

[Anonymous No.2782868]

>>2782830
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obelisk_building_technology_in_ancient_Egypt
something like this would work

[Anonymous No.2782875]

Whats with 14,000 BC. Wiki says Puma Punku is from around 500 AD and the earliest inhabitants at tiwanaku lived around 1500 BC

[Anonymous No.2782885]

>>2781215
>>2781215

i think they use argon dating

basically the potassium-40 in the rock decays to argon-40 which as a half life of a few million years (i think)

they check the ratio of potassium-40 to argon-40 to date it

[Anonymous No.2782895]

>>2782868
>diorite cuts granite
I'm with you
>pieces of saturated wood break softer stones like sandstone
Ok. Now where's the part where diorite is cut by a softer stone?

[Anonymous No.2782900]

>>2782858
>lots of water
>lots of time
>achieve anything
Wat?

[Anonymous No.2782907]

>>2782900
>blast it with piss
>for 100 years
>cut it in half

[Anonymous No.2782912]

Ancient discovery...OMG..can't be built with today's technology ALIENS!!...someone reproduces results in back yard.. new ancient discovery found.. OMG..can't be built with today's technology ALIENS!..someone reproduces results in back yard

rinse and repeat.....

I always think that if my family was threatened by the local despot that he wanted a temple built I would be able to do get it done..ANYTHING can be done with enough blood sweat tears resources and ingenuity http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread457254/pg1 decent thread with good ideas...

[Anonymous No.2782921]

I wish to provide an opinion:

>Heat rocks very hot
>Rapidly cool with water
>rock develops cracks
>split rock along crack
>???
I know that it wouldn't produce a perfectly cut stone, but it seems to be the easiest way for ancient people to split large stones.

[Anonymous No.2782929]

>>2782921

what did they use to heat a rock of that size and mass?

[Anonymous No.2782941]

>>2782858

>Thinks water cuts the stone.

[Anonymous No.2782942]

>>2782929
Fire. A big fire. Maybe they built some sort of clay structure around the rock to trap the heat in. I don't know. I'm not an archeologist.

[Anonymous No.2782956]

>>2782942

a fire only burns at like 1000 degrees C

you'd need several thousand for a rock that big, or at least a shit load of fuel for the fire which seems impractical for 14000 bc

[Anonymous No.2782968]

>>2782956
They could have made bellows out of animal hides

[Anonymous No.2782971]

>>2782968

in which case we go back to the original point of how the fuck did we not know that they had this knowledge in 14,000 bc

[Anonymous No.2782974]

>>2782968

This

[Anonymous No.2782978]

>>2782921
That or ice, simply add water, wait for it to freeze and expand, add more, etc.

[Anonymous No.2782982]

>>2782971

Shit gets destroyed or lost with time. If my dog shits on the ground and somebody looks at that same spot 20,000 years from now are they going to see anything?

[Anonymous No.2782986]

>>2782978
Ice in the tropics? Even during the night it wouldn't get that cold

[Anonymous No.2782994]

>>2782971
Hides degrade, clay gets eroded by weather

[Anonymous No.2783008]

If it was done, it can be done. Pretty simple fact.
Cutting buch of big rocks is not such a big deal.
If you have time and manpower and motivation you can build the pyramids.
To cut rock you eithert hit it with other rocks, use fire/ice, use water or wood or some other cutting technique

[Anonymous No.2783030]

>>2783008
We know it was done. We know it can be done. We are debating HOW it was done.

[Anonymous No.2783043]

>>2783030
Links to this particular case might be helpfull

[Anonymous No.2783057]

>This layer was deposited during the first of three construction epochs and dates the initial construction of the Pumapunku at 1510 ±25 B.P. C14 (AD 440; calibrated, AD 536–600). Since the radiocarbon date came from the lowermost and oldest layer of mound fill underlying the andesite and sandstone stonework, the stonework must have been constructed sometime after 1510 ±25 B.P.

Op can go back to reading chariots of the gods.

Nothing to see here folks.

[Anonymous No.2783077]

>>2783057
>Prof. Posnansky summed up his 50 year study in a 4 volume work entitled Tiahuanaco, The cradle of American Man first published in 1945. He explains his theories, which are rooted in archeoastronomy, as follows. Since Earth is tilted on its axis in respect to the plane of the solar system, the resulting angle is known as the "obliqueness of the ecliptic" (one should not confuse this with another astronomical phenomenon known as "Precession", as critics of Posnansky have done). If viewed from the earth, the planets of our solar system travel across the sky in a line called the plane of the ecliptic.

>At present our earth is tilted at an angle to of 23 degrees and 27 minutes, but this angle is not constant. The angle oscillates slowly between 22 degrees and 1 minute miminum to an extreme of 24 degrees and 5 minutes. A complete cycle takes roughly 41,000 years to complete. The alignment of the Kalasasaya temple depicts a tilt of the earth's axis amounting to 23 degrees, 8 minutes, 48 seconds, which according to astronomers, indicates a date of 15,000 B.C.

[Anonymous No.2783081]

>>2783043
What?

[Anonymous No.2783093]

>>2783077

Don't care what some whacked out fruit claims, c14 dating firmly places the building of the structure to ~500AD

>As noted by Andean specialist, Binghamton University Anthropology professor W. H. Isbell,[1] a radiocarbon date was obtained by Vranich[2] from lowermost and oldest layer of mound fill forming the Pumapunku. This layer was deposited during the first of three construction epochs and dates the initial construction of the Pumapunku at 1510 ±25 B.P. C14 (AD 440; calibrated, AD 536–600). Since the radiocarbon date came from the lowermost and oldest layer of mound fill underlying the andesite and sandstone stonework, the stonework must have been constructed sometime after 1510 ±25 B.P. C14.

>>>/x/

[Anonymous No.2783112]

>>2781230
hahahaha