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/sci/ - Science & Math

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2755615 No.2755615 [Reply] [Original]

>Study History.
>Math/Engineering/Physics fags keep telling me that History shouldn't be at University because it isn't a Science (Along with Arts, Literature, Music etc etc which also shouldn't be taught or studied at universities)
>History
>Not Science
>Mfw

What? the fuck how the fuck is History not a science? Even if it isn't a "science", what makes Art subjects less worthy of being taught at a place of academia?

>> No.2755621

because they're subjective.

>> No.2755636

Arts are worthless and do not benefit Humanity in any real way.
Thus useless shit shouldn't be taught at a place that needs those resources for real subjects.

>> No.2755653

i love history. didn't study it in school because there aren't many jobs that require it other than teaching.

unfortunately, a strong knowledge of history isn't very useful in practice.

>> No.2755669

>>2755615

dw bout the math/engy/phys fags. have comfort in the fact that this elitism is all that is saving them from calculating the correct trajectory that they must take when falling off a bridge into a cavern of rocks.

>> No.2755683

History: has contributed nothing to the world except propaganda and fuel for logical fallacies.

>> No.2755701

>>2755669
wrong.bat

we love science because we love discovery and bettering our species. most of us aren't studying science and/or math to make ourselves feel better.

>> No.2755702

>>2755621
That's a very bad argument.

>> No.2755747

>>2755701

thatsnice.whogivesafuck

i didn't mention love. i mentioned elitism.

history also involves discovery and bettering our species through the act of learning from our past mistakes.

>> No.2755754

SHIIIIIIIIIT /sci/, I didn't know you were so dumb. The Humanities might not be science, but we need them. Science without Humanities would be like a left brain without a right brain: TOTALLY FUCKED.

>> No.2755764

>>2755621

Science as an enterprise is subjective, so I'm just going to assume you don't know what the word means and that you're 12.

>>2755636

You can't be seriously if you can't see how people enjoy aesthetic pleasures, and there's something really strange going on in your head if you don't wish the well-being of people, so I'm just going to assume you're an autism.

>> No.2755778

History fag here.

What good is the present, why strive for the future if you can't make sense of the past?

>> No.2755780

>>2755615

Why is physics a science? You don't measure forces or particles directly, only their effects and the disturbances they cause using indirect methods. And when you get down to subatomic physics you're dealing with imprecise potentials, shit that behaves in different ways at the same fucking time, motherfucking entanglement, et cetera. Physicists need to resort to the same shit-tier math like statistics that Sociologists use just to make some special-case correlations.

Physics is just another liberal art. Deal with it

>> No.2755782

All of those subjects should be offered at universities so guys can have girls to bang. They are also interesting even though studying any of it won't get you anywhere in life.

>> No.2755792

>>2755778
You only need to make sense of the present to plan for the future.

>> No.2755815

>>2755615

http://www.journaloftheoretics.com/editorials/vol-1/e1-3.htm

^ Definition of a science

History is not a science because you are not observing any NEW phenomena. Archaeology can be a science because you observe new phenomena and draw conclusions based on what you find, but history is just studying past events. History has it's place in academia, but you can't call it a science.

>> No.2755834

> what makes Art subjects less worthy of being taught at a place of academia?

Not much gets accomplished by art (other than emotional fulfillment, and one can get that from another human being instead of wasting an education on it).

>history isn't a science
Technically, engineering isn't science, either. I'll actually say that history is more of a science than engineering (because it involves insight about one's origins, although it does not delve as deeply as medicine/physics/math).

>> No.2755831

history is a science, it involves looking at evidence just as much as any of the natural sciences does.

Only difference is, whereas physicists can lean on heaps of evidence for the big bang and quantum states of matter, historians are often inclined or assumed to draw conclusions on very little of it.

Michelson and Morley's experiment on the aether, the medium of light, was a negative, but they came up with very creative explanations for their "mistake" in the report. Their result has been copied and supported, and now the aether stand corrected. However, due to the theoretical lack of evidence, the historian's misfortunate wrongdoings are not likely to be corrected, and as such a historical "fact" can often not be seen as factual as those of the natural sciences.

>> No.2755829

>>2755780

I'd ask that you keep quantum mechanics out of your retard talk, thank you.

>> No.2755839

>>2755792

If you have no basis on your plans... no knowledge of the past what good is your future?

There is no present - there is only past and future.


You need a basis for all of your knowledge, an understanding of the human condition.

If you people know that Universities were from the ancient times of Greece and Rome, then you'd know that they both liked to explore all of these aspects : Science, Art, Math, History, et cetra

Greeks had a golden mean in everything they did, maybe modern universities need the same thing.

>> No.2755857

There's a lot of elitism on /sci/ but honestly the main problem I have with the social sciences, being a Political Science and Philosophy double major, is that they are packed with idiots that only take them because they're easy. I know, because I was one of those idiots. Over my time here though I've realized that I should be in school to learn and I've found that there are contributions that can be made in most of the fields labeled 'social sciences.' Institutions like the World Trade Organization need to be constantly re-evaluated and policies kept consistent. The problem is that the number of people enrolled who actually want to do things like this, rather than have discussions reminiscent of /new/ is low.

>> No.2755863

>>2755831

No history is not a science. Read the article I posted here: >>2755815

And you will understand. This definition is straight form the horses mouth, the people that actually define what science is since Aristotle wrote the "Nicomachean Ethics".

>> No.2755869

>>2755857
i am inclined to agree.

>> No.2755879

>>2755815
In that case, shouldn't Art be a science? I see new phenomena every day done by the species hipster.

They didn't like the splatters I put on my painting. It was amusing and interesting.

>> No.2755881

I always laugh at the 'it's useful to learn from our past mistakes' argument.

History is pointless. Deal with it. Bitching about not making enough money with a history degree? Fuck you, that's what you get for choosing a hobby for a profession.

>> No.2755890

>>2755857

Also, people in the social sciences seem to hate the idea of taking a statistics course let alone a logic or math based course. By that I mean formal logic, whether set theory, modal logic, or otherwise. I suspect that this can explain why so many people make awful arguments in the discourse.

>> No.2755906

>>2755839

mathematics are best practiced as a creative art.

Also, I am taking a subject on music besides my physics courses, and it's really too technical a subject to be labeled art. I think we know so much about arts now, that you can't integrate them into other programs in a good way.

>> No.2755909

>>2755615
History isn't a science because determinations about it are not made via the scientific method.

Non-sciences are fine. But this is a troll thread so gtfo.

>> No.2755933

>>2755839
keeping records of the past != science

>> No.2755942

>>2755839
>>2755778

Same as here ^

I do agree that history shouldn't be taken as your main aspiration in life. Taking history-related stuff as a major is stupid and a waist, when you could learn far more from just passively reading.
I'm planning to go into law, so its really the only point of considering things like history/philosophy, etc.

Social Science may not actually be "sciences" persay, but they do have a place in University.

And I hate those lazy people that don't know what they are doing who take these courses...

>> No.2755943

>>2755615
In science, everything is empirical. The what, the how, the where. Everything.
In History, only the what and the where is empirical (and even they have some issues.).

However, I would disagree with most /sci/ducks and say that the humanities are actually useful.
I believe that my creativity was motivated more in the art classes than in science classes as a child, and philosophy is a good way to learn how to use critical thinking and go at things at different angles.

That is why in Math and Physics I am able to come up with more creative approaches to problems, I am willing to try anything.

>> No.2755957

>>2755933
>not keeping record of history |= science
FTFY

>> No.2755964

Arts are at least somewhat justified they have techniques that can be developed to make us be exceedingly efficient at creating entertainment. History has no gains.

>> No.2755973

>>2755909

This is a sore misconception most people make. Read the definition I posted here: >>2755815

NOT ALL SCIENCE FOLLOWS THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD I.E. Archeology.

>> No.2755988

>>2755942
>and a waist
>waist
This is why English is important. It's waste.

>> No.2755989

>>2755906

Finally, I'd like to add that some of the professors have serious physics envy. One of them (the ex-husband of a prominent political figure, and one himself no less) gave a list of symbols at the beginning of the course. Things like pi for politics, alpha for some thing, sigma for another, and so on. The worst part wasn't even the symbols though, it was the fact that he would often forget about them and only spontaneously remember that, although the past three things he'd written on the blackboard omitted them, he should start doing the symbols again. The book we used for the course also began with a story of his physicist friend asking him if North America would survive.

Another of my professors referred to the Einsteinian nature of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict - that is, how often space (land) will be traded off for time in negotiations, depending on which side perceives time to be against them.