How long will it take for society to collapse once we invent nano-scale assemblers? 1-6 months is my guess

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Anonymous Sat Mar 12 13:52:20 2011 No.2687996 [Reply] [Original]

How long will it take for society to collapse once we invent nano-scale assemblers?
1-6 months is my guess

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 13:55:20 2011 No.2688003 society collapse? more like society prosper

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 13:56:20 2011 No.2688007 About 5 minutes after a nano swarm is capable to hold a uploaded sentience or AI.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 14:00:20 2011 No.2688023 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_goo

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 14:00:20 2011 No.2688024

Nano-swarms are impossible, microbes represent about as energetic as nano-tech can get without external power sources or externally provided fuel.

What we should fear is an AI that uses machines on both normal scales and the nano-scale and can organize these machines providing them with the energy they need to fight us, as well as the humans and their tools fooled into serving the AI.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 14:00:20 2011 No.2688028 >>2688003 When everyone can replicate anything, shits going to go down. If everyone can manufacture gold, the economy will shit its pants.

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 14:00:20 2011 No.2688029

>>2687996
Define collapse.
If you mean that martial law is instated and all goverments around the world tries to ban matter assemblers because it totally fucks over the status quo and makes every form of corporation/goverment/central control obsolote, then yes, that should happen rather quickly.

If you mean things literally dissolving, well, maybe that too will happen, but think of the people who deserve to be dissolved and you'll realize it's a good thing.

My first priority would be to find some likeminded people and get the fuck off earth. Perhaps even leave the solar system.

>>	OP Sat Mar 12 14:01:20 2011 No.2688035 >>2688029 I meant collapse as in the first scenario.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 14:02:20 2011 No.2688044 >>2688028 you can't replicate elements. i don't care what ray kurzweil says, it's impossible

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 14:03:20 2011 No.2688058
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Imagine such a replicator floating in a bottle of chemicals, making copies of itself…the first replicator assembles a copy in one thousand seconds, the two replicators then build two more in the next thousand seconds, the four build another four, and the eight build another eight. At the end of ten hours, there are not thirty-six new replicators, but over 68 billion. In less than a day, they would weigh a ton; in less than two days, they would outweigh the Earth; in another four hours, they would exceed the mass of the Sun and all the planets combined — if the bottle of chemicals hadn't run dry long before.

Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Sat Mar 12 14:07:20 2011 No.2688077

>>2688028

>When everyone can replicate anything, shits going to go down. If everyone can manufacture gold, the economy will shit its pants.

You obviously don't understand how this works: You can assemble diamond out of trash, but not gold. Are you retarded? Are you suggesting alchemy?

>>2687996

Fatalist teenager detected. If you agree with that picture, then holy shit.

>>2688023

Thermodynamics, how does it work?

>>2688024

>Nano-swarms are impossible, microbes represent about as energetic as nano-tech can get without external power sources or externally provided fuel.

This. Explain how you would make a "nanobot" that can both disassemble, reassemble, molecules, and also move.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 14:07:20 2011 No.2688081 ITT: people going full retard

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 14:09:20 2011 No.2688089 >>2688081 your just mad because you didn't think about the dangers first. I can hear your anal pain over the internet.

>>	Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Sat Mar 12 14:09:20 2011 No.2688090 >>2688058 Sounds like it's from Engines of Creation, or am I imagining things?

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 14:13:20 2011 No.2688109

>>2688077
>This. Explain how you would make a "nanobot" that can both disassemble, reassemble, molecules, and also move.

You have them combine into "multicellular" nanoworks where the units take up certain specializations. those on the top farms solar energy and channel it to those on the bottom that picks apart molecules to elements and creates energetic compounds. It would be like a molecular cancer that can spread as a single unit and take root and grow into something of higher complexity.

OP Sat Mar 12 14:14:20 2011 No.2688115

>>2688077
Sorry, gold was a bad example. Having the ability to cheaply manufacture diamonds would still fuck over the economy, if there was universal access to it.And I wasn't talking about grey goo scenarios, only the disruption of the socio-economic status quo by this. (Although grey goo would disrupt it, albeit a bit more radically.)

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 14:15:20 2011 No.2688121 >>2688028 I bet they said the same thing about books. They probably feared that, when anyone can cheaply buy a book full of any information, specialists and scholars would become unemployed.

Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Sat Mar 12 14:15:20 2011 No.2688124

>>2688109

>You have them combine into "multicellular" nanoworks where the units take up certain specializations. those on the top farms solar energy and channel it to those on the bottom that picks apart molecules to elements and creates energetic compounds. It would be like a molecular cancer that can spread as a single unit and take root and grow into something of higher complexity.

And what, exactly, are you going to do with the waste heat of such machines? You know they can't be 100% efficient, right? And not even 99%, since the theoretical limits are far, far lower.

Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Sat Mar 12 14:16:20 2011 No.2688132

>>2688115

> (Although grey goo would disrupt it, albeit a bit more radically.)

But grey goo is impossible. Are you just misinformed, or a fatalist who will keep insisting nanotech is the magical everything-dissolving pixie dust you see in movies?

>>	The Doctor Sat Mar 12 14:17:20 2011 No.2688136 >>2687996 >>2688003 I'm envisioning a scenario where indiduals grow independent of societal logistics, a threshold in human evolution. Not sure what will happen then.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 14:17:20 2011 No.2688138 /r/ing stoneage science fiction pic

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 14:19:20 2011 No.2688153 >>2688115 >Having the ability to cheaply manufacture diamonds would still fuck over the economy, Nope. Only diamonds would go down in value.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 14:20:20 2011 No.2688159 ITT: Trolls and retards. yfw you realise nanobots are just enzymes and can't assemble shit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 14:21:20 2011 No.2688164 >>2688124 quite the same way your body doesn't spontainiously implode

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 14:23:20 2011 No.2688179 >>2688124 Drive an internal combustion engine to make the whole mess move(grey goo on wheels!). Or melt copious amounts of salt to spray over potential threats. Or simply regulate the rate at which they do stuff and let the excess radiate away.

>>	Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Sat Mar 12 14:23:20 2011 No.2688186 >>2688164 There's a difference between my body's slow-acting cells and fictional magic nanobots that disassemble the planet in five hours.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 14:23:20 2011 No.2688187 If they could combine they could create new metal based organisms.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 14:24:20 2011 No.2688189 >>2688179 ITT: retards

>>	Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Sat Mar 12 14:24:20 2011 No.2688192 >>2688179 >Or simply regulate the rate at which they do stuff and let the excess radiate away. Then they would be so slow it would be like a desktop, stationary assembler. It can't be weaponized.

OP Sat Mar 12 14:25:20 2011 No.2688196
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>>2688132
I never said that a grey goo scenario was possible; that parenthetical remark was an attempt at humor. Sorry if it didn't seem that way.

>>2688136
But what happens when governments and companies realize that people are becoming independent? I don't want to sound cynical, but they won't just stand by and let this happen once they figure it out.

>>2688138
Ask and you shall receive.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 14:25:20 2011 No.2688197 >>2688187 You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 14:26:20 2011 No.2688203 >>2688196 >But what happens when governments and companies realize that people are becoming independent? Retard detected.

Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Sat Mar 12 14:26:20 2011 No.2688204

>>2688196

>But what happens when governments and companies realize that people are becoming independent? I don't want to sound cynical, but they won't just stand by and let this happen once they figure it out.

I know, that's the only flaw in my otherwise perfect plan for an anarchist nanotech-based society.

>>	OP Sat Mar 12 14:27:20 2011 No.2688212 >>2688192 My original post was talking about desktop manufacturers, not grey goo. A grey goo scenario is rather unfeasible.

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 14:29:20 2011 No.2688226

>How long will it take for society to collapse once we invent combustion powered machines?
>How long will it take for society to collapse once we manage nuclear power?
>How long will it take for society to collapse once we invent agriculture?
>How long will it take for society to collapse once we control electrical energy?
>How long will it take for society to collapse once we invent firearms?
>How long will it take for society to collapse once we invent machines that fly?
>How long will it take for society to collapse once we invent nano-scale assemblers?

>>	OP Sat Mar 12 14:34:20 2011 No.2688252 File: 37 KB, 500x447, what-you-did-there-i-see-it.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2688226

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 14:35:20 2011 No.2688262

>>2688192
>It can't be weaponized.
Depends, given that they are universal constructors they could just sit idle for a while in a uranium rich mountain range and then nuke the enitre world before conquering the stone-age society that remains. They could poison the atmosphere or something similar too.

But being weaponized by simply deconstructing everything might be relatively unlikely, some differentiated nanoweapon forms would work much much better at killing off mankind.

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 14:42:20 2011 No.2688292

>But what happens when governments and companies realize that people are becoming independent? I don't want to sound cynical, but they won't just stand by and let this happen once they figure it out.

Even assuming that they manage to enforce legal restrictions on nanoassemblers in the entire US you'd still find them in use in some other place of the world. Say, if some inuit town of 250 people suddenly grows a 12km high skyscraper of perfect diamond, making the US seem like retarded cavemen it won't really be sensible to maintain the ban. Even in the absence of diamondscrapers any nation using nanoassemblers would be far superior in producing goods and everything else. Restricting it would be economic suicide.

Of course, someone will try, because corporate leadership and politicians are so incredibly fucking stupid that i'm at loss for words.

>>	Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Sat Mar 12 14:43:20 2011 No.2688299 >>2688292 This. Banning molecular assemblers here will only thrust everyone else to use them, it's only an invitation for everyone else to get ahead of us. It's unstoppable.

>>	OP Sat Mar 12 14:46:20 2011 No.2688318 >>2688292 >12km high skyscraper of perfect diamond Can you imagine if that thing fell over?

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 14:46:20 2011 No.2688319 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxi7JRJrod4

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 14:47:20 2011 No.2688332 >>2688299 Looking at the funding that mechanosynthesis research gets it will probably take a while before any assemblers arrive though.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 14:53:20 2011 No.2688371 Do you guys even know how nanoassemblers work? Like, is it even theoretically feasible to build a diamondtower with nanoassemblers?

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:01:20 2011 No.2688420

>>2688371
You forge molecules by using mechanicals forces to squeeze them together(in a vacuum). A diamond tower could be built by adding layer after layer of carbon atoms below the assembler, just give the assembler a large enough feedstock of carbon atoms.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:02:20 2011 No.2688434 File: 14 KB, 300x300, blackguylaughing.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2688028 >Gold accurately measures how well the economy is doing

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:08:20 2011 No.2688480

It won't mean fuck all to the basic structure of society. Nano-assemblers ARE NOT the same thing as post-scarcity. Energy will remain scarce. Ownership of land will remain scarce. As long as there is any commodity for which demand exceeds supply, there will still be a functional economy.

Of course, things will change. Manufactured goods will lose their value. But that's just one field. Architecture, engineering, scientific research, art, music, literature, etc. will all retain their value. Even if you can construct anything, you still need designs to follow. If you want something that hasn't been invented yet, you'll need someone to design it, and they will surely expect something in return for their efforts. There will still be an economy, just one that values different things than our current one.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:09:20 2011 No.2688488 >>2688420 So it would be just a really big diamond press then?

>>	link Sat Mar 12 15:15:20 2011 No.2688538 >>2688077 power them with electromagnetic radiation I was sitting through a lecture from a NASA scientist about how they plan to power stations in space and this is one of the better solutions. Why not use it for microbots?

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:17:20 2011 No.2688547 >>2688480 >>Energy will remain scarce lol

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:20:20 2011 No.2688579

>>2688547
>implying infinite energy is at all realistic in the near future
Maybe eventually, but we're a lot farther from perfecting fusion, zero-point energy, or any of that jazz than we are from inventing nano-assemblers.

At the time nanotech is invented, I'm 99% sure we will still be using nuclear power and burning hydrocarbons for energy.

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:22:20 2011 No.2688593

>>2688538

How the fuck are nanobots going to turn EM radiation into kinetic energy?

>>2688077

You are partially right. We CAN transmute elements, it's just extremely unfeasible and uneconomical at the moment.

Microbes can be made smaller and more efficient although there would have to be some major breakthroughs for this to happen for the "nano-assembler" dream to come true.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:23:20 2011 No.2688607 >>2688579 >> implying that the amount of energy capable of being harvested from geothermal sources, solar, wind and tidal sources isn't more than enough to power a society that uses more than 10 times the amount we use today.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:24:20 2011 No.2688614 >>2688593 electromagnetic radiation.... how does it work?

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:24:20 2011 No.2688617
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ITT hopeless dreamers think that their table top assembler can create diamond when you need at least a 200ton press to create the proper P/T space under which diamond can be formed.

An nanoscopic assembler is only really good for making small components anyway not macroscopic products. It takes less energy to just make the tiny components and then fit them together with regular machining.

Also you have to have very pure slurries of molecules to feed into the machine otherwise the excess unusable material will gum up the works by creating an environment were less than 50% of the molecules in the machine can attach to the tool tips of the assembler apparatuses and the unusable stuff becomes concentrated where ever the tool tips are supposed to be uptaking the component molecules.

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:25:20 2011 No.2688621

>>2688579

>Maybe eventually, but we're a lot farther from perfecting fusion

ITER is already underway.

>zero-point energy

No.

>than we are from inventing nano-assemblers

Nobody even knows what a nano-assembler IS, nobody has even came up with a feasible design for one yet.

>At the time nanotech is invented, I'm 99% sure we will still be using nuclear power and burning hydrocarbons for energy.

Doubt we'll still be burning hydrocarbons, nuclear will replace them as oil prices soar through the roof.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:26:20 2011 No.2688625 >>2688617 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanosynthesis#Diamond_Mechanosynthesis

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:27:20 2011 No.2688630

>>2688077
>Explain how you would make a "nanobot" that can both disassemble, reassemble, molecules, and also move.
I think I already did. They would have to specialize to improve their ability to obtain different kinds of energy and best utilize scarce materials, rather like human civilization does except they would be superior because they could control humans and use nanobots and regular sized robots and various other technology as well as a sentient central AI that can expand it's own intelligence. There might be a philosophical barrier to this however, if the AI can modify it's own mind then it may cease being motivated to obtain power by removing it's ability to gain pleasure from gaining power or something.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:28:20 2011 No.2688642 >>2688630 Explain to me how a nanobot can possibly have intelligence rivalling that of a normal human adult.

Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Sat Mar 12 15:33:20 2011 No.2688685

>>2688630

>I think I already did. They would have to specialize to improve their ability to obtain different kinds of energy and best utilize scarce materials, rather like human civilization does except they would be superior because they could control humans and use nanobots and regular sized robots and various other technology as well as a sentient central AI that can expand it's own intelligence. There might be a philosophical barrier to this however, if the AI can modify it's own mind then it may cease being motivated to obtain power by removing it's ability to gain pleasure from gaining power or something.

Jesus Christ you're a fucking nutjob. And no, you did not. At the very least go read Engines of Creation, it may not be a nanochemistry textbook but it will do some good.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:33:20 2011 No.2688687 >>2688642 I think he meant a central AI separate from the nano-bots themselves, but directing them

>>	Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Sat Mar 12 15:34:20 2011 No.2688694 >>2688687 Don't try to rationalize a three-line paragraph of technobabble that has no basis in objective reality.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:35:20 2011 No.2688695 >>2688687 And how is that supposed to work?

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:36:20 2011 No.2688705 >>2688630 > they would be superior because they could control humans and use nanobots >control humans >use nanobots What? Weren't we talking about nanobots in the first place? And how the hell will they control humans?

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:40:20 2011 No.2688737 >>2688695 I'm not backing what he said, so I don't know. I was just clarifying one of his incoherent points.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:41:20 2011 No.2688743 >>2688705 Presumably by synthesising an aerosol form of LSD

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:43:20 2011 No.2688761 File: 734 KB, 333x250, wondershowzen.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2688743

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:48:20 2011 No.2688793 >>2688204 >an anarchist nanotech-based society. I cringed.

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:50:20 2011 No.2688804
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>>2688625
>Doesn't understand that synthesizing a nanoscopic quantity of diamond does not mean those tiny bits of diamond can be combined into a cystaline macroscopic structure that retains the compressional strength of raw diamond.

You need solid crystal of diamond in the form of a girder or something, for that you will need to combine you tiny abouts of synthesized diamond under very high P/T conditions.

I still call bullshit on the diamond skyscraper concept.

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:53:20 2011 No.2688830
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>>2688793
>Implying that if you technotopic came true I and 10% of the population wouldn't become horrible transhuman cyberbarbarians looting your little anarchist conclaves. Thereby necessitating an organized militia to repel us, and thus a state to organize the militia.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:53:20 2011 No.2688827 >worrying about nanotech >worrying about AI Cowards. If our species can't safely accomplish this much, we deserve to go extinct.

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:53:20 2011 No.2688829

>>2688685
An AI that likes expanding won't alter itself to not like that. If it knows that the end result will be it not expanding, and it feels a need to expand, then it won't modify itself to change because it knows that it will go against its wishes.
I'm having trouble putting this in words.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:55:20 2011 No.2688842 >>2688804 Well, yeah. 1 dimer per second is going to take more than the age of the universe to produce a gram of diamond.

Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. Sat Mar 12 15:56:20 2011 No.2688852
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Self-replicating nanobots that eat up most of the Earth's surface are impossible, See: waste heat and getting energy to do such tasks

As soon as a molecular assembler can print off another molecular assembler, capitalism as we know it will cave in on itself within the month. The only thing left will be ideas/creativity and the raw materials. But that latter part will be taken care of by robots.

Imagine being able to design parts for a interplanetary spacecraft in 3DsMax and then simply print them off, working with a few aerospace engineer friends to fit them together. No more needing to wait for the slow bureaucracies of the world to expand into the depths of the ocean and into space.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:57:20 2011 No.2688864 >>2688829 >Implying programming such an AI is even feasible at this point

>>	OP Sat Mar 12 15:59:20 2011 No.2688881 File: 14 KB, 335x278, tumblr_lf289j1REw1qdh06a.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2688852 >mfw you are the first person to respond with an actual number.

>>	Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. Sat Mar 12 15:59:20 2011 No.2688886 File: 40 KB, 470x313, 1294560290689.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] This reminds me, who wants me to stream Transcendent Man?

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 15:59:22 2011 No.2688882 [DELETED]

>>2688642
>>2688685
I think you've misunderstood. I was talking about a mix of regular machines, nanobots and fooled humans all under the control of a sentient AI.

>What we should fear is an AI that uses machines on both normal scales and the nano-scale

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:00:20 2011 No.2688887 >>2688852 It's impossible to even begin to dissolve the Earth. First of all, most of the crust is made of oxides. How are you going to break these oxides into their constituent elements using nanobots? etc. etc. ITT: retards including me

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:00:20 2011 No.2688889
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>>2688852
>capitalism as we know it will cave in on itself within the month.

Buying and selling designs for products. People with better assemblers making better shit than your little personal model can. People providing services or labor to utilize or assemble the small components your molecular assembler is making. Trading of rarer elements and compounds that are used as raw material. Providing energy from nuclear power to run your ridiculously power hungry machines. People selling newer and better versions of the assembler.

That is all communist faggot.

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:01:20 2011 No.2688894

>>2688642
>>2688685
I think you've misunderstood. I was talking about a mix of regular machines, nanobots and fooled humans all under the control of a sentient AI.

>What we should fear is an AI that uses machines on both normal scales and the nano-scale

This civilization would act very much like gray goo, just on a larger scale.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:01:20 2011 No.2688899 >>2688882 HURP DURP MATRIX SKYNET

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:02:20 2011 No.2688906 People who's only skill is labor wont have a job, but no one will need to work anyway. Imagine all of the dumbshits of the world just fucking around outside all day erryday

>>	Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Sat Mar 12 16:02:20 2011 No.2688909 >>2688842 Then a dimer makes another dimer. See where I'm going?

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:02:20 2011 No.2688910 >>2688894 You have no idea what you're talking about.

>>	Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. Sat Mar 12 16:03:20 2011 No.2688913 >>2688889 You didn't read the later part where I said ideas and creativity did you? AlsololThePirateBay

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:03:20 2011 No.2688917 >>2688909 Pretty much. It doesn't make any sense.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:04:20 2011 No.2688923 >>2688913 >Implying thepiratebay would exist without jobs

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:05:20 2011 No.2688929 >>2688894 When the fuck did we start talking about AI's and fooled humans in the conversation about assemblers? Speaking of which, what the fuck is a "fooled human"?

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:07:20 2011 No.2688938 >>2688929 Presumably someone under the influence of nano-synthesised LSD

Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Sat Mar 12 16:07:20 2011 No.2688940

>>2688917

If you can make a mechanosynthetic tooltip, you can make more and array them, or have said tooltip assemble another one (Or make enough for a set of said tooltips assemble one), making an assembler-making factory. Once you have enough tooltips, acetylene molecules, and Gn dimers in a parallel, redundant array, then you can slap a Nanofactory-1 label on it, and start making whatever you want.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:09:20 2011 No.2688950 >>2688940 And how will this be better than using a diamond press?

>>	Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. Sat Mar 12 16:09:20 2011 No.2688951 >>2688923 >thinks all progress will suddenly stop Lolno

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:10:20 2011 No.2688956 >>2688951 >what the fuck are you on

>>	Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Sat Mar 12 16:10:20 2011 No.2688959 >>2688950 ... Molecular precision?

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:12:20 2011 No.2688966 >>2688913 And you missed the part where I mentioned three other things you didn't. Didn't you?

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:12:20 2011 No.2688969 >>2688959 How would this be useful in large-scale manufacture of diamonds?

Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. Sat Mar 12 16:15:20 2011 No.2688996
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>>2688966
>People with better assemblers making better shit than your little personal model can.
Yeah, and one of your friends got one of those from his friend and he prints one off for you.
>People providing services or labor to utilize or assemble the small components your molecular assembler is making.
Robots
>Trading of rarer elements and compounds that are used as raw material.
You just KNOW there'll be some motherfuckers that designed a massive free rare-earth metal mining operation on a few large asteroids.
>Providing energy from nuclear power to run your ridiculously power hungry machines.
>implying space-based solar can't take care of the power requirements

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:16:20 2011 No.2688998
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>>2688940
Ya still can't assemble the individual dimers into a single macroscopic component composed of diamond without it being under enough pressure. Diamond nanodust may have plenty of industrial applications by tensile support structures are not one of the them.

>>	Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Sat Mar 12 16:16:20 2011 No.2689002 >>2688969 Because you would have billions of mechanosyntheses tooltips working at the same time?

>>	Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Sat Mar 12 16:18:20 2011 No.2689020 >>2688998 Explain.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:18:20 2011 No.2689022 >>2688996 >Robots. Wow this guy is a Singularitarian

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:22:20 2011 No.2689052

>>2688929
You think humans can't be fooled?

Computer AI achieves sentience, takes someone hostage and tells them they will redirect money into their bank account with which to start a corporation in their name. The AI then assassinates this person in secret while maintaining their records to make it seem as though they are still alive and acts as executive of the corporation, issuing orders through couriers, using it's superior intelligence to succeed in business and it's money to control humans. Eventually it begins to exert influence over the government and uses propoganda and false information to fool humans into obeying it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:23:20 2011 No.2689059 >>2688910 What the fuck is so difficult to understand? gray goo = nano machines consuming matter and replicating civilization = humans and machines consuming matter and replicating

>>	Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. Sat Mar 12 16:24:20 2011 No.2689061 File: 14 KB, 148x307, 1297807506020.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2689022 Oh look, a dumbass. Or a troll.

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:28:20 2011 No.2689097
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>>2688996
>Thinks and assembler can make all it's own tooltips when physics says it can't.
laughingwhores.jpg

That's also why self replicating nanomachines are not possible, you will never have room for the extra tool tips you need to make your own comonent tooltips.

>are-earth metal mining
"Rare" describes their properties not their relative abundance buddy. Thought some are rare because their ores are not rich enough to make it economically viable to refine them.
>asteriods
Rate earth, not iridium or other transition metals and iron which are what you'd want from metaluminous asteroids in the first place
>Implying that the fucking huge nuclear pulse propulsion spaceship needed to ship the ore to the user is going to to it for free

">implying space-based solar can't take care of the power requirements"
>implying it is practical since you lose 45% of the energy when you transmit it by microwave and other forms of transmission have problems with atmospheric interference.
>implying it could provide all the power needed without supplementation from other sources
>implying you got those fuck huge power stations into orbit without shipping the components from NES or the surface with nuclear pulse propulsion
>implying they will give you electric for free

>implying you aren't a fuckwit with rose colored glasses stapled to your face.

Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Sat Mar 12 16:30:20 2011 No.2689106

>>2689097

>>implying it is practical since you lose 45% of the energy when you transmit it by microwave and other forms of transmission have problems with atmospheric interference.

85% efficiencies could've been achieved in the 70's.

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:32:20 2011 No.2689111
File: 321 KB, 975x1308, mechanicus sign.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>2689052
This is not ghost in the fucking shell. And if it was plenty of humans would have slowly replaced large protions of their central nervous systems making them as smart as the AI anyway.

>>	Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. Sat Mar 12 16:32:20 2011 No.2689120 File: 43 KB, 424x558, Eric_Drexler_2007.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >implying problems that will not be problems when molecular assemblers ASSEMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMBLEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRSSSSSSS

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:34:20 2011 No.2689125

If society collapses now, we're fucked. One man cannot do it by himself in the modern age.

But if society collapses after we have proper replication, it doesn't really matter. Anyone can make whatever they need to live, and it becomes increasingly difficult to force anyone to do anything without explicit violence.

As for 'grey goo'. The fewer nano-scale assemblers there are, the worse this will be. One or two or them will go into grey goo mode, and they will over-run the defenceless world. If everyone has one, they will all pump out grey goo antigens all the time. Anything grey goo-ish will be analysed, hacked and destroyed very quickly. It would take a coordinated effort to hack most of the assemblers in the world to pump it out at the same time to get this done.

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:34:20 2011 No.2689127
File: 17 KB, 420x272, 8de09-NotSureIfSerious.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>2689106
Says who. No really if that is the case I am quite interested. But how, the waste is due to it passing through the atmosphere. We know all the frequencies that could be used in the microwave range, and the best I ever heard them getting was 55% efficiency. Also transmission by conducting wire is only 85% today so I am suspicious.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:35:20 2011 No.2689140 >>2688827 This. A whole lot of >I fear change. ITT.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:38:20 2011 No.2689151 >>2689140 >>2688827 I thought it was ITT: Enthusiasts with actual degrees in sciences listen to the the most optimistic self promoting bullshit about technology that is probably not physically possible then bitch when someone bursts their bubble.

Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Sat Mar 12 16:39:20 2011 No.2689158

>>2689127

>1964: Brown demonstrates on CBS News with Walter Cronkite a model helicopter that receives all of the power needed for flight from a microwave beam. Between 1969 and 1975, Brown is technical director of a JPL Raytheon program that beams 30 kW over a distance of 1 mile at 84% efficiency
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_energy_transfer

This is for single-mile transfer, let me see now.

>Power transmission via radio waves can be made more directional, allowing longer distance power beaming, with shorter wavelengths of electromagnetic radiation, typically in the microwave range. A rectenna may be used to convert the microwave energy back into electricity. Rectenna conversion efficiencies exceeding 95% have been realized. Power beaming using microwaves has been proposed for the transmission of energy from orbiting solar power satellites to Earth and the beaming of power to spacecraft leaving orbit has been considered.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:39:20 2011 No.2689165 >>2689151 Not true. No one with an actual education in science is allowed to post on /sci/. That's like rulw 1.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:40:20 2011 No.2689169 >>2689165 OBEY THE RULWS RELIGION THREAD

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:42:20 2011 No.2689182 I've seriously never heard of gray goo. Gray goose? I know that well. Gray goo? Not so much, but it sounds kind of ridiculous so far.

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:44:20 2011 No.2689191

>>2689151
>>2689151
>>2689151
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>>2689151
This.

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:45:20 2011 No.2689202

>>2689158
>1 mile at 84% efficiency

There is a lot more than 1 mile of air between LEO and the ground friend.

>Rectenna conversion efficiencies exceeding 95% have been realized
At what range, through what cloud cover, with how much atmospheric dust or water vapor in the way?

The wireless energy transmission is weird and probably relies a lot on optimal atmospheric conditions since they get contradictory results when they try it.

I'm not sure who told you this but until I see it in a peer reviewed journal then read any subsequent rebuttals I'm not going to get any hopes up.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:46:20 2011 No.2689209 >>2689182 It's like strangelets and the ice-9 from Cat's Cradle

>>	Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Sat Mar 12 16:49:20 2011 No.2689229 >>2689202 >http://www.hq.nasa.gov/webaccess/CommSpaceTrans/SpaceCommTransSec38/CommSpacTransSec38.html Look at the table halfway down.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:50:20 2011 No.2689247 >>2689209 Ah, now this I can conceptualize. Thank you.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:53:20 2011 No.2689266 >>2688886 >>2688852 You're a retard underage faggot, judging by your intellect

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:53:20 2011 No.2689269 >>2689229 yfw you realise microwave is heavily absorbed by water vapor

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 16:55:20 2011 No.2689279 >>2689266 We already knew that. We are just humouring him.

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 17:02:20 2011 No.2689332

>>2689229
Unfortunately to make these economic they'd have to have a <$100/lb to orbit payload cost. Which is currently only possible with either nuclear pulse propulsion or a lofstrom loop.

And even then it is questionable if they could provide these levels of power, especially during the winter if their is snow cover. And it would still have to compete with similarly priced nuclear or coal power.

>Over 60% of world coal reserves are found in developing countries, 50% in China alone.

This immediately makes we question the validity of the entire paper. As someone with an MS in stratigraphy I can tell you that the US contains 70% of all estimated recoverable reserves of Coal. Maybe they were going on proved reserves and China was doing alot of new exploration at the time, but that is still bullshit. The Laurentian craton has the lion's share of coal, not China.

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 17:09:20 2011 No.2689373

>>2689332

Wikipedia disagrees:

United States 108,501 98,618 30,176 237,295 22.6
Russia 49,088 97,472 10,450 157,010 14.4
China 62,200 33,700 18,600 114,500 12.6
Australia 37,100 2,100 37,200 76,500 8.9
India 56,100 0 4,500 60,600 7.0
Germany 99 0 40,600 40,699 4.7
Ukraine 15,351 16,577 1,945 33,873 3.9
Kazakhstan 21,500 0 12,100 33,600 3.9
South Africa 30,156 0 0 30,156 3.5

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 17:16:20 2011 No.2689398

>I don't want to sound cynical, but they won't just stand by and let this happen once they figure it out.

Corperations are made of people. People want to be rich. Being rich means being free of scarcity, not having more than other people. They'll dissolve on the inside, the second it becomes viable to live indepenently every corperation's workforce would leave instantly.

So, what, we're scared of the rich guys at the top actually doing some work to stop others being rich? HAHAHA.

All it takes is one country on the planet to stop that bullshit and the rest would be forced to follow suit.

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 17:18:20 2011 No.2689408

>>2689373
That's proved reserves. Total estimated recoverable reserves are not the same as proved reserves.

Proved means you confirmed the presence of the resource and have begun extraction.

Recoverable/Estimated reserves are how much the geology says should be there.

US proved reserves are 15-22% depending on whose numbers you use
Estimated reserves are 55-72%

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 17:22:20 2011 No.2689423

>>2689408
u guys talking about coal?

there's enough coal in China to power all of humanity for 100 years.

as for methane, there's enough of it in hydrates on the ocean floor to power humanity for 3,000 years.

the issue isn't "where's the energy," but rather "where's the carbon-neutral energy." the answer is the sun.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 17:24:20 2011 No.2689440 >>2689423 Not if China's energy consumption per capita matches the West

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 17:31:20 2011 No.2689478 >>2689440 Then we kill the Chinese with our fooled humans and AIs. Simple.

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 17:33:20 2011 No.2689490
File: 35 KB, 996x572, m6-sovereign.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>2689423
>>2689423
>"where's the carbon-neutral energy."
Faggot detected.

Look buddy I have an MS in geology and I will tell you that global warming, though expensive is less costly than just stopping hydrocarbon use earlier than 70 years from now.

There is going to be 1C warming, there is going to be a 0.95m sea level rise by 2020. Just fucking deal with sissy.

I want more power. More nuclear, more wind, more coal, more oil, more natural gas, more hydroelectric, more solar, MOAR EVERYTHING. And when I look up to the stars I feel no awe, only cold hunger. I see new virgin worlds to rape, defile, and eventually devour to the bone. I think not of how small we are, but how big we can become.

Eventually the biosphere will have to come to an end when it becomes more efficient to just pave over everything with photoelectric cells. Life exists on this planet because we allow it, it will end because we demand it. And when the time comes this planet will burn as the pyre of our ascension to the stars.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 17:35:20 2011 No.2689503 >>2689490 Yeah, destroying earth's atmosphere to fuel our expansion into the Cosmos might suck, BUT THE PRIIIIIIIZE.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 17:42:20 2011 No.2689538 >>2689490 conservative retard detected

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 17:43:20 2011 No.2689545
File: 735 KB, 1440x900, imperium1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>2689503
Rise up sons of Man! For your Gods! For your Empires! For yourselves! For your Blood and your children yet unborn!

Use the spear of science to piece the heavens and stab at those who would deny you your rightful and central place in the universe.

Burn the natural, purge the animal, kill the alien!

All things will know and follow the will of mankind, for we will give them no other option.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 17:45:20 2011 No.2689548 File: 128 KB, 160x120, great scott.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2689490 >>2689503 I came.

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 17:46:20 2011 No.2689561
File: 34 KB, 658x569, youkeepusingthatword.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>2689538
Conservative = socioeconomic stance

poster = anthropocentric, cares only about humanity and its power

Although not exclusive, I seen nothing that indicates conservativism or liberalism in his stance.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 17:48:20 2011 No.2689572 File: 243 KB, 400x400, Me2harbinger.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2689548 I KNOW YOU FEEL THIS.

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 17:56:20 2011 No.2689635

>>2689490
>>2689545
>>2689548
>>2689561
>>2689572
I now see why they want to turn our race into Reapers, we already halfway there.

But I cannot help but think the reapers are weak. With all the time and superior technology at their disposal they could have simply replicated themselves and consumed all the planetary mass of the galaxy by now. Then they could have fucked of to conquer the rest of the universe with an armada of hundreds of trillions of living starships.

Humanity will far surpass the Reapers in the fullness of time, because unlike them we are not lazy gits that need to take millennia long naps.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 18:00:20 2011 No.2689666 >>2689635 >Destroy sentient life in the galaxy >Chill in inter-galactic space for 50K years >Repeat Yeah, the Reapers are kind of lazy.

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 18:11:20 2011 No.2689738

>>2689666
>>2689635
Who says they aren't bulking up to consume the galaxy? It seemed to me like they needed organic lifeforms to make up part of their ships. So they might just be doing the rinse and repeat cycle so that they can get enough numbers to conquer the universe.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 18:12:20 2011 No.2689741 >>2689738 Mass Effect is nonsensical, deal with it. If they wanted more biomass, they would farm it actively.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 18:13:20 2011 No.2689744 >>2689738 If they manage to destroy all sentient life in the galaxy, conquering it thereafter wouldn't be much of a challenge.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 18:15:20 2011 No.2689754 >>2689744 I think he meant conquering other galaxies. But still, the Reapers from Mass Effect don't make sense.

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