/sci/ - Science & Math

[Funkenmarieche !fcsdUrivQ. No.2681851]

theist socialist == angel tier
religious fundamentalist == shit tier
atheist soclialist == shit tier
atheist liberalist == MONSTER tier

[Anonymous No.2681860]

Theist, magic
Atheist, death

[Anonymous No.2681874]

Agnostic Libertarian == Aight Tier

[Anonymous No.2681877]

Agnostic libertarian = Flavor of the month tier

[Italian in less than 10 seconds No.2681885]

guns == good
penis == bad

[Anonymous No.2681893]

science == /sci/ tier
religion == troll tier

[Anonymous No.2681895]

[Anonymous No.2681904]

>>2681885
I CONCUR

[Anonymous No.2681917]

Pic related; it's a libertarian world.

[Funkenmarieche !fcsdUrivQ. No.2681938]

>>2681917

inb4 anti-stalinism propoganda pictures.

925 million people are living in starvation today, in the name of free market. would never have happen under communism. Not saying i support soviet era communism but i just think it would have been not as monstrous as capitalism.

[Anonymous No.2681953]

socialist = fail tier

[Anonymous No.2681961]

>>2681938
People starve in proportion to government control of the economy.

[Anonymous No.2681970]

People starve in proportion to corporate control of the government.

[Anonymous No.2681979]

>>2681851
You seem to have made an error in your evaluation, OP, let me help you with that:

Secular Humanist == ULTIMATE TIER
Everything else == SHIT TIER

[Anonymous No.2681987]

Who controls the food supply controls the people; who controls the energy can control whole continents; who controls money can control the world. -- Henry Kissinger

[Anonymous No.2681997]

Social Credit is the way forward.

[Anonymous No.2682011]

"Systems were made for men, and not men for systems, and the interest of man which is self-development, is above all systems, whether theological, political or economic."[

[Anonymous No.2682017]

>>2681987
He's only right when the world is stupid enough to use one country's tender as the world reserve currency. Oh wait.

[Anonymous No.2682019]

socialist * == I fail basic economics and psychology tier

[Anonymous No.2682018]

>>2682011

I didn't understand it at first but when you said [ it all became clear.

[Anonymous No.2682023]

>>2682019
Please explain.

[Anonymous No.2682029]

>>2681938
The people in the starving countries are starving because they don't have an economy of any kind to speak of.

[Anonymous No.2682030]

>>2681979
Humanism is an idealist view of the world that, because it is idealistic, is unable to prevent suffering and misery, and sometimes promotes it.

Radical subjectivity is where it's at.

[Anonymous No.2682032]

>Anything with social or commune in it = shit tier
Seriously think of all the dumb people in the world. They already control the government through democracy, do you really think society is smart enough to handle the means of production? If you don't support individual property rights you're just a masochist. "The common good" should play no role in my personal business transactions.

[Anonymous No.2682035]

>>2682023
Socialism assumes people are all rational agents and that they will continue to work just as hard with less incentive.

[Anonymous No.2682044]

>>2681997
I agree. C. H. Douglas was a genius.

[Anonymous No.2682049]

>>2682019

The following economic terms you are unfamiliar with:

Externality
Cost-push inflation
Multiplier effect
Accelerator effort
Demand-deficient recession
Aggregate demand
Socialism

[Anonymous No.2682061]

>>2682035

No it doesn't. Socialism is not defined by equality of income. That's nothing more than a straw man use to allow clichés such as "its against human nature" or "it works fantastically in theory" and allow people to feel a smug sense of satisfaction in believing themselves to be correct because they've never been exposed to those that think differently.

[Funkenmarieche !fcsdUrivQ. No.2682063]

>>2681997
>Social Credit
sounds good never heard of it.
But i`ve been thinking about problems that come with all forms of socialism and i believe all of them have solutions, it just requires a competent group of leaders.
It would be possible to combine the good aspects of capitalism with the good aspects communism.

There would just be a maximum of how much wealth one can possibly own and earn privately like max 4000 euro a month.
The remeaning money that one owns goes not directly to the state ! But to a second bank account on a bank that`s formally owned by the state.
One can use the money on that state-bank account for economical investments only.
all things one buys with that money again are formally attached to that state-bank account.
People would still be able to build a reputation and "own" huge companies, even multinationals.
Basically everything would be possible as current day exept the property distribution is more honest.

don`t come with bullshit like "it won`t work because people will have no profit out of working hard." There are more motivations people will start a business then just the money. pride and more freedom for example.
People are willing to literally spend months "mining" or "hunting" just for the credit of a rare (virtual) sword in World Of Warcraft, and really feel proud about it.
Note that game developers and psychologists could have a special role in this scociety, they`ll figure out what keeps people motivated.

Is the Social Credit thing compitable with a society like that or what is it?

[Anonymous No.2682079]

Collectivism is when people put emotion and empathy above reason and logic. Read: religion

[Anonymous No.2682081]

>>2682061

nevermind the fact that that's exactly what happens while those who do work work double

[Anonymous No.2682096]

>>2682061
>implying socialism isn't a mainstream groupthink ideology

[Anonymous No.2682098]

>>2682081

Except that's true, since socialism is in no sense antithetical to vertical inequity.
Do you honestly believe that capitalism rewards those who work the hardest in society? The price mechanism fails miserably as an incentive. Paris Hilton.
The majority of wealth in all capitalist societies is inherited--mostly through property. Where is the meritocracy in that?

More importantly, you clearly have no idea what socialism actually is or, for that matter, what capitalism is.
Define both.

[Anonymous No.2682101]

>>2682096

>Implying socialism is in any sense mainstream
>Implying socialism isn't the communal ownership of the means of production and the establishment of a classless, stateless society
>Implying that exists
>Implying it ever has.

[Anonymous No.2682105]

>>2682035
>>capitalism assumes people are all rational agents
ftfy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics#Criticism_of_assumptions

[Tautoulogic !fcsdUrivQ. No.2682112]

>>2682079
correction:
Collectivism is when people put emotion and empathy above reason and logic. Read: to rely on the ultimate truth.

Things you know for sure should be the things to rely on, not sceince or logic. Of course they are important aspects of modern society, but they are not the only and defenetly not the last truths.

The fact that you are the appearance of a human being including a world around you is one of verry few facts that could be considered absolute truth. This is the highest form of knowledge to reality and this is what should compose your worldview. Mysticism and thought has been the default point of view of human beings for thousands of years.

Who or what do you think you are to know better?

[Anonymous No.2682121]

>>2682079
>Capitalism is when people put emotion and empathy above reason and logic. Read: ideology

[Anonymous No.2682122]

>>2682063
the basics behind social credit is that currently wages are lower than the cost of production, so the workers are not paid enough to buy back what they had made.

Freeing workers from this system by bringing purchasing power in line with production became the basis of Douglas's reform ideas that became known as Social Credit. There were two main elements to Douglas's reform program: a National Dividend to distribute money (debt free credit) equally to all citizens, over and above their earnings, to help bridge the gap between purchasing power and prices; also a price adjustment mechanism, called the Just Price, which would forestall any possibility of inflation. The Just Price would effectively reduce retail prices by a percentage that reflected the physical efficiency of the production system. Douglas observed that the cost of production is consumption; meaning the exact physical cost of production is the total resources consumed in the production process. As the physical efficiency of production increases the Just Price mechanism will reduce the price of products for the consumer. The consumers will be able to purchase as much of what the producers produce that they want and automatically control what continues to be produced by their consumption of it. Individual freedom, primary economic freedom, was the central goal of Douglas's reform.

It is a little complex to explain on here, its very mathematically driven theory.

but then at the end of the day its only a theory.

[Tautoulogic !fcsdUrivQ. No.2682123]

>>2682079
correction:
Collectivism is when people put emotion and empathy above reason and logic. Read: to rely on the ultimate truth.

Things you know for sure should be the things to rely on, not sceince or logic. Of course they are important aspects of modern society, but they are not the only and defenetly not the last truths.

The fact that you are the appearance of a human being including a world around you is one of verry few facts that could be considered absolute truth. This is the highest form of knowledge to reality and this is what should compose your worldview. Mysticism and thought has been the default point of view of human beings for thousands of years.

Who or what do you think you are to know better?

[Anonymous No.2682133]

>>2682079

>Implying ethics (which is all that politics really is) can be reduced to reason and logic
>Implying value judgements aren't the foundation of politics
>Implying value judgements are rational or logical
>Implying that they're not makes them somehow less important

[Anonymous No.2682139]

>>2682123
>Things you know for sure should be the things to rely on, not sceince or logic
The word for this is "faith."

[Anonymous No.2682150]

>>2682123

Socialist here,

You're a crackpot faggot spouting nothing but senseless garbage.

[Anonymous No.2682154]

>>2682123
Empathy and emotion should never be forced or coerced. You can't force me to care about the poor. I own a business. It exists because I say it exists, it needs no sanction from "society." You can either buy my product or not, I'm not holding a gun to your head. The only thing that can force you to do something is the state, which the collectivists want to put in charge of wealth redistribution. No, just no. Either buy my product, or leave me alone, but I don't give a shit about the working class. If you do, then start your own business and treat them well.

[Anonymous No.2682165]

>>2682105
The difference is that capitalism minimizes the damage society can cause because each person is only individually in control of their lives, so an irrational agent only hurts themselves.. When an irrational society controls production, then we're all screwed.

[Anonymous No.2682170]

>>2682165
>each person is only individually in control of their lives, so an irrational agent only hurts themselves.
Delusion much ?

[Anonymous No.2682171]

>>2682154
>>it needs no "sanction" to exist.
business license.
>>it exists because I say it exists.
Man, sure would help if you had customers and people willing to work for you, doesn't it?

the rest of your comment was pretty much bullshit misinterpreted from a few classic fiction symoblist novels written by a russian hag who hated government intervention enough to collect social security and use medicare. Sure would have helped if she made more royalties off her book and the money wasn't stolen by publishers who used their power to their advantage in negotiations.

[Anonymous No.2682172]

there will all ways be 'losers' in any political system, most people are lazy and selfish, either they don't want to work and expect everything for free or there willing to work but don't want to help those in need because they feel there free loaders.
finding the middle ground means there will be losers on both sides.

[Anonymous No.2682174]

Oscar Wilde's argument for socialism:
Capitalism necessities the wasting of human intellect and creativity in the wasteful and inefficient practices of charity. It forces people to waste their emotional energies on caring for the unfortunate, brutish, weak and dirty masses.
All human advancement--science, literature, mathematics, philosophy and art--is created by the fearless and fierce commitment of oneself to what one finds interesting and beautiful in life. It requires the entirety of oneself to be given over to it. Socialism would allow this by removing the need for those who are so inclined towards the advancement of the species to care for others.

[Anonymous No.2682188]

>>2682172
>>most people are lazy and selfish
unverifiable claim
actually, you're whole post was just one giant appeal to nonsense.

[Anonymous No.2682189]

before people say they are unhappy with their current political system, they should say what they want form a political system.

[Anonymous No.2682192]

>>2682188
well how much charity work do you do?

[Anonymous No.2682197]

>>2682165

> so an irrational agent only hurts themselves

You've never heard of the concept of an economic externality, have you? Almost all economic actions carry with them external, third-party costs and benefits. From pollution to education.
For example, the universal provision of healthcare, all other things being equal, would greatly increase worker productivity. In fact, empirical data supports this. The reason? Sick people aren't good workers. Therefore, when healthcare is provided, business benefit by being more efficient and competitive. A third party benefits by the private transactions others. However, the price-mechanism cannot take account of this, as only the private benefits and costs determines the amount that is produced and consumed. Therefore, there is an under-consumption in regards to maximising the wider economy.

Secondly, rational agents frequently damage both their own long-term self-interest and the overall welfare of the group by nothing more than the pursuing of their own self-interest. See the Tragedy of the Commons.

[Anonymous No.2682208]

>>2682171
>Man, sure would help if you had customers and people willing to work for you, doesn't it?
Hey, you got it! It might surprise you, but working and purchasing are done out of mutual consent. I can't force anyone to work for me, only the government can force people to work. Ironically, I've probably done more to help the poor by employing people than you've done in your whole life complaining about capitalism and the greedy corporations.

[Anonymous No.2682228]

>>2682197
That's not the point, it's nice that healthcare improves efficiency but you can't force people to pay for others' healthcare with the threat of a fine. If people want to voluntarily pay for public heathcare, or if a corporation provides healthcare, that's perfectly fine. However, no on e has a "right" to healthcare.

[Anonymous No.2682239]

fuck you this isn't /sci/-related

[Anonymous No.2682244]

the only place to be is on the top, fucking everyone and everything else.

unfortunately i am at the bottom of the pile, being dicked from every angle.

[Anonymous No.2682250]

>>2682208
>working and purchasing are done out of mutual consent. I can't force anyone to work for me, only the government can force people to work.
That's nonsense and you know it.

[Anonymous No.2682251]

this thread is just turning in a gibberish bickering bitch fest.

[Anonymous No.2682262]

>>2682208
I beg to differ. I bet I've done more in my whole life to help people by providing them security, food, clothes, and bring peace and stability to their country than you have ever done.

You may help people in your business, you may hurt people. I don't know what you do or care. And you assume that I complain about capitalism blah blah blah greedy corporations etc. No, I merely point out the flaws in the system and offer solutions.

[Anonymous No.2682268]

>>2682228
Actually, they do, as soon as law stipulates it. Since rights have an actual existence only as legal concepts.

And yes, the threat of fines can force someone to pay cotisations for healthcare. Just like the threat of further misery can force some to work a job he doesn't like.

That's what people call reality.

[Funkenmarieche !fcsdUrivQ. No.2682284]

>>2682251

>turning in a gibberish bickering bitch fest.
lol is so 1987

[Anonymous No.2682293]

>>2682284
>>2682123
>>2682063
>>2681851

Something about you makes me wonder...what do you think about TimeCube?

[Anonymous No.2682313]

bumo

[Anonymous No.2682382]