This guy says we might be able to stop aging: http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/aubrey_de_grey_says_we_can_avoid_aging.html Wondering what /sci/ thinks. Is this realistic, or just wishful thinking?

File: 123 KB, 1067x555, PG_41E_-__Man_-_showing_progressive_aging.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Mon Mar 7 17:37:37 2011 No.2660117 [Reply] [Original]

This guy says we might be able to stop aging:

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/aubrey_de_grey_says_we_can_avoid_aging.html

Wondering what /sci/ thinks. Is this realistic, or just wishful thinking?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 17:46:37 2011 No.2660158 http://www.manhattanbeachproject.com/ By 2029. There's a lot of dudes working on this. I think for sure we'll figure out aging, I dunno if they're right about that deadline though.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 17:50:37 2011 No.2660175 TA-65.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 17:51:37 2011 No.2660183 >2011 >humans haven't stopped aging yet

Anonymous Mon Mar 7 17:51:37 2011 No.2660179

It is realistic. Gene therapy to reverse transcript telomerase back into genome of the aging. This will extend life and may even reduce the aging process. After DNA replication, small parts of the DNA are lost and telomeres essentially prevent that piece of DNA from degrading.

Positive result have already been shown in rats. I don't support this until there is adequate population control

Anonymous Mon Mar 7 17:54:37 2011 No.2660193

I think that ageing can be greatly delayed or stopped, but I don't think we will accomplish this in the sort of non-invasive, gradual treatment method he envisions. To me, it seems more likely that we'll learn how to fabricate and replace tissues and organs wholesale. That is, I think it will come about through regenerative medicine and cybernetics and with discrete operations rather than gradual treatment.

That's not to say I find the sort of anti-ageing research he advocates useless - on the contrary I think it may be of great benefit and the ideas are not mutually exclusive.

Anonymous Mon Mar 7 17:55:37 2011 No.2660203

>>2660158
>By 2029

The predicted dates for this sort of thing always seem to be far enough away that tangible results wouldn't be expected yet, but close enough that they are within the probable lifetime of the predictor.

I would love for them to be right, but I'm not terribly optimistic.

Anonymous Mon Mar 7 17:57:37 2011 No.2660211

>>2660179

>adequate population control

Well, this won't stop disease, accidents, or every other kind of death imaginable. Just aging. And I'm sure not everyone will be able to benefit from it. Just as not everyone is able to benefit from modern medicine today.

>>	The ThunderBird !!m4ANrdZXfVL Mon Mar 7 17:58:37 2011 No.2660218 >>2660179 That mechanism, deleterious as its effect are, is there for a reason. We already have cases where cells simply stop aging and become immortal. It's called cancer.

Anonymous Mon Mar 7 18:03:37 2011 No.2660237

>>2660218
The situation is not so simple that you can reduce it to a platitude. Shortening of telomeres (so that genes are eventually lost off the ends of chromosomes during replication) can also *cause* cancers. The view of telomeres as a sort of tumour suppressor is by no means settled.

Furthermore, it's not true that the mechanism must be there for a reason. Evolution doesn't work that way.

The ThunderBird !!m4ANrdZXfVL Mon Mar 7 18:09:37 2011 No.2660268

>>2660237
>Furthermore, it's not true that the mechanism must be there for a reason. Evolution doesn't work that way.
I dunno, I think predisposition to cancer quite outweighs the possible benefits of immunity from senescence . It would be more advantageous for an organism to not live forever, but stay viable by culling aging cells.

The telomeres are basically just fillers, repetitions of TTAGGG, they encode for nothing. Yes, cancer is possible with remaining telomeres too, with the right mutations, but if telomerase is expressed, there will be literally nothing short of cytotoxin and starvation to stop the cells from dividing over and over again. That's cancer by any other name...

Anonymous Mon Mar 7 18:16:37 2011 No.2660301

here's the problem with current telomere based anti-aging research.

cheap, chemical inducers of this enzyme cause massive amounts of cancer.

natural product inducers of this enzyme do not. these are CCCCCRAZY expensive.

rich people can live to at least 150, if they are young now and live very healthy lifestyles along with natural telomerase inducers.

>>	Max Planck Mon Mar 7 18:26:59 2011 No.2660352 File: 81 KB, 446x400, lolin1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2660268 >implying all cancer is malevolant

>>	Max Planck Mon Mar 7 18:27:37 2011 No.2660361 File: 81 KB, 446x400, lolin1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2660268 >implying all cancer is malevolent...

Anonymous Mon Mar 7 18:31:37 2011 No.2660381

The real question is, how to solve a gigantic population boom problem after this goes mainstream? There's no point in everyone getting young again if we'll all die from starvation and overcrowding.

inb4 spehs eksplureyshun, we're very far away from a point where a large amount of humans are living in space/other celestial bodies.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 18:42:37 2011 No.2660422 >>2660381 > The real question is, how to solve a gigantic population boom problem after this goes mainstream? War.

>>	Max Planck Mon Mar 7 18:45:37 2011 No.2660436 >>2660422 War between Immortals? Sounds like some LOTR shit...

Anonymous Mon Mar 7 18:47:37 2011 No.2660447
File: 281 KB, 451x352, 1291352409489.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>2660381
>a gigantic population boom problem after this goes mainstream

Just because it's gone "mainstream" doesn't mean everyone can afford it or will even want it in the first place. Even if most people wanted it, I doubt it'd be available to everyone everywhere all at once. It'll probably be like most technological advancements today. The super rich will get it first. Then by the time the average person can afford it, society will know how to handle it better than we can now.

Anonymous Mon Mar 7 18:50:37 2011 No.2660453

>>2660447

If we perfected immortality I think there'd be alot of people who wouldn't care about the money. People would fight for immortality, you could have civil unrest is there was such a thing as immortality but only the rich could buy it. It'd be a pretty big deal.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 18:51:37 2011 No.2660457 File: 9 KB, 240x240, 877502-mug_leonidas_super[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2660436 Immortals? We'll put their name to the test.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 18:54:37 2011 No.2660464 File: 21 KB, 600x336, dumb-and-dumber-movie-image-jim-carrey-01.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2660453 We're not talking about immortality. We're talking about stopping the aging process.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 19:03:37 2011 No.2660499 >>2660381 we won't have an overpopulation problem, niggers do and they won't have the immortality drug either. They don't even have common drugs like antibiotics and shit

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 19:07:37 2011 No.2660518 File: 51 KB, 612x720, onlybeone.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Sorry guys, but my research in this area has had limited success. It's actually my understanding that on the issue of immortality, there can only be one.

Anonymous Mon Mar 7 19:13:37 2011 No.2660555
File: 13 KB, 375x360, 1291608784229.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>2660453
>you could have civil unrest is there was such a thing as immortality but only the rich could buy it.

Yes, there might be some civil unrest. But it will mostly come from people who are AGAINST life extension. Just like those crazy christfags who bomb abortion clinics. A lot of people might find the idea of life extension morally unacceptable and against "god's" will. Those are the people I'd be worried about most. Heck, everyone wants money. So why doesn't the "civil unrest" crumble the banking system we have?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 19:22:37 2011 No.2660608 >>2660518 ...nobody?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 19:28:37 2011 No.2660637 >>2660608 Rough crowd.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 19:31:37 2011 No.2660655 File: 16 KB, 592x320, Connor352.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] mfw >>2660608

Anonymous Mon Mar 7 20:03:37 2011 No.2660775

Aubrey de grey is a computer engineer with an interest in biology who made himself a prophet for immortality. He's not a scientist, but a fool who made a religion out of modern medicine and computer science.

Even if discoveries in biology where to follow an exponential trend, an organic body won't live more than 130 yrs, the age expectancy of neurons.

And we won't be able to transfer our consciousness on computer ship until we have both the correct model of the human brain and nano technology sophisticated enough to scan each of the 100 to 500 trillion synapse of a human brain and replace them as neurons die.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 20:10:37 2011 No.2660803 The only way I would support large endeavors to achieve "immortality" would be if there was a large culling of the population -- between 500M and 1B left, in total; maybe even less than 500M.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 20:15:37 2011 No.2660826 >>2660803 Unless it's through strict prevention of births you'd better not suggest killing off the population if you yourself aren't willing to die for it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 20:17:37 2011 No.2660842 File: 23 KB, 396x479, adolf-hitler.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2660803 Sounds like a reasonable solution.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 20:20:37 2011 No.2660854 Here's a good documentary about that: http://video (dot) google (dot) com/videoplay?docid=-3329065877451441972#

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 20:26:37 2011 No.2660884 File: 22 KB, 544x400, 1287537956767.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] What if: All those who wish to receive the anti-aging treatments must by law also undergo a vasectomy or hysterectomy in order to keep the population stable?

Anonymous Mon Mar 7 20:29:37 2011 No.2660894

>>2660803
If you knew anything about human population growth, you'd have learned that it isn't a problem, and wouldn't be a problem even with immortality.

The biggest cause of population growth are births. Age related deaths do not hold back or slow down population growth significantly at all.

>>	Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Mon Mar 7 20:33:37 2011 No.2660916 >>2660894 Mandatory Hans Rosling: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTznEIZRkLg

>>	Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Mon Mar 7 20:35:37 2011 No.2660933 >>2660916 Wait. This. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpKbO6O3O3M&feature=relmfu I think.

>>	Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Mon Mar 7 20:37:37 2011 No.2660948 >>2660933 Fuck it I will just link to the TED talks site: http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_shows_the_best_stats_you_ve_ever_seen.html

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 20:40:37 2011 No.2660965 >>2660884 Its impossible for women to still ovulate at that age and men that old should never reproduce because gametes become more unstable when age goes up. (downs in pregnancies of age 30+ more common than 20+)

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 20:50:37 2011 No.2661012 >>2660933 >>2660948 great videos

Anonymous Mon Mar 7 20:54:37 2011 No.2661025
File: 47 KB, 330x469, 340x.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>we have a 50/50 chance of reaching this RHR milestone, robust human rejuvenation, within 15 years from the point that we get to robust mouse rejuvenation.
>if we can actually get suitable funding for this, then we can probably develop robust mouse rejuvenation in only 10 years.

10+15 = 25

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubrey_de_Grey

>20 April 1963 (1963-04-20) (age 47)

Age of Dr. de Grey when he predicts we will be able to cure aging. 47+25 = 72
Life expectancy of someone born in britain in 1963: 71 years (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy#External_links))
http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2007/03/the_maesgarreau.php

>The Maes-Garreau Point

>The latest possible date a prediction can come true and still remain in the lifetime of the person making it is defined as The Maes-Garreau Point. The period equals to n-1 of the person's life expectancy.

>Maes-Garreau Law: Most favorable predictions about future technology will fall within the Maes-Garreau Point.

>>	Axel the Possum Mon Mar 7 21:03:37 2011 No.2661083 >>2660894 >Biggest cause of population growth >Births .... Well, no shit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 21:10:37 2011 No.2661135 >>2661025 Are you suggesting that because Aubrey de Grey might die before he can benefit from his own proposed anti-aging process that the research wouldn't continue and a solution will never be found?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 21:19:37 2011 No.2661185 >>2661135 He's suggesting that the estimate might be biased, since everyone wants to see it within their lifetime.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 21:23:37 2011 No.2661209 >>2661185 Well... who wouldn't want to see it in their own lifetime? Saying "We'll find a cure for death in 5,000 years." would be easily dismissed and is practically a non statement.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 21:26:37 2011 No.2661224 >>2660381 lolno We can do it right fucking now. Thing is, people would rather bicker over borders and sue their doctor for providing medical care and goddamn apple products than funnel vast funds into space programmes

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 21:28:37 2011 No.2661239 >>2660422 >When all the world is overcharged with inhabitants, then the last remedy of all is war, which provideth for every man, by victory or death.

Anonymous Mon Mar 7 21:55:37 2011 No.2661439
File: 10 KB, 180x128, 187571_683166743_698518_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

i know he made the comment about people who said they knew basic biology - which i'm coming from - but there is the problem with gene replication. The end of the code (which is essentially a large amount of "blanks") get clipped off every time they replicate in almost every animal species. He would need some way to prevent this. though there is one jellyfish we have found that has overcome this problem, i don't see science developing a way to transplant that any time soon.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 22:02:37 2011 No.2661477 >>2661439 >He would need some way to prevent this. There's already a condition under which this happens in humans. It's called cancer.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 22:45:37 2011 No.2661740 >>2661439 You can go ahead and say Telomeres, no one will scold you for it, boy.

Anonymous Mon Mar 7 22:48:37 2011 No.2661754

>>2661477
>>2661477

I remember reading some...well, interesting paper to say the least.

Don't ask me who the author was or in what journal it was published, but essentially (and I may be wrong, it was some time ago), the author argued that cancer was/is mutation adapted for immortality or some junk.

I'm probably wrong in the way I described it given that I gave mutation some purpose. But you get the point. Find the article, I want to look at it again.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 22:51:37 2011 No.2661771 >>2660301 >mfw they will not announce their findings to the general public in fear that they'll riot for the drug

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 7 22:52:37 2011 No.2661776 File: 52 KB, 380x302, 201965780_225faccf43.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2661771 forgot to post my face

Anonymous Mon Mar 7 22:56:37 2011 No.2661798
File: 236 KB, 386x396, astragalus-bsp.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>TA-65 is produced at very low levels in the astragalus plant, but the company purifies and concentrates the substance, which is thought to "turn on" the enzyme telomerase (hTERT) that acts to maintain or lengthen telomeres. hTERT is usually "off" in adult cells, except in immune, egg and sperm cells, and in malignant cancer-forming cells.
fuck it, lets do it ourselves

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 8 02:52:37 2011 No.2662740 2nd law of thermodynamics mofo

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 8 03:12:37 2011 No.2662766 >>2662740 Is the human body a closed system? NO SO FUCK OFF

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 8 03:26:37 2011 No.2662804 >>2660775 I'm 21. If I live to be 130, that means it will be the year 2120 by the time my neurons wear out. Are you seriously saying that in 110 years we won't have a solution to that little problem?

Anonymous Tue Mar 8 03:37:37 2011 No.2662829

Bump.

Immortality is a piecemeal process. Once the Telomeres have been taken care of, we still have neural decay to worry about. Once that's done, we'll still have DNA that slowly degrades with mutations.

The point is not to take it all out in one fell swoop, it's just to live long enough for the next problem to be solved.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 8 03:42:37 2011 No.2662845 >>2661798 Why the fuck do they never mention that telomerase causes cancer. I hate these threads, they get people in a tizzy about something that can't realistically happen.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 8 03:46:37 2011 No.2662863 >>2662845 Apparently we can now fix cancer. http://health.ninemsn.com.au/healthnews/8218416/breast-cancer-breakthrough Everyone switches out their Telomeres for genes which prevent cancer but don't cause you to age to death. Problem, fatalists?

Anonymous Tue Mar 8 03:53:37 2011 No.2662880

I wanna have it, life in a cave with only the essentials to life and enough books to learn and some form of entertainment then come out of my cave 100 years later to see how the world has changed. Repeat until it is afforable for me to explore the galaxy and talk with aliens and shit like that

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 8 03:56:37 2011 No.2662888 >>2662880 You would be looked at like we would look on an Australopithecus. By the time space travel is possible, humanity will be extinct, replaced by something far stranger and more wondrous. Just remain in the world and change along with it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 8 16:17:37 2011 No.2665374 File: 13 KB, 378x301, heart-attack.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Stop aging? 20 years from now? Where do I sig-- HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!

Advanced search
Text to find
Subject [?]Search by post subject. Leave empty for any.
Username [?]Search for user name. Leave empty for any user name.
Tripcode [?]Search for tripcode. Leave empty for any.
Email [?]Search by email. Leave empty for any.
Filename [?]Search by image filename. Leave empty for any.
From Date [?]Enter what date to start searching from. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
To Date [?]Enter what date to start searching until. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
Image hash
Search in	All Posts OPs Only
Deleted posts	Show all posts Show only deleted posts Only show non-deleted posts
Internal posts	Show all posts Show only internal posts Show only archived posts
Order	New posts first Old posts first
Capcode	All Posts Only by Users Only by Mods Only by Admins Only by Developers
Results	Posts Threads
Action	[ Simple ]

/sci/ - Science & Math