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/sci/ - Science & Math

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2654271 No.2654271 [Reply] [Original]

>in High School
>taking pre-calc
>kids whining, "Y DNT WE LEARN USEFUL STUFF LIK WELL USE IN DA REAL WORLD?!?!"
>teacher says, "So you can get a job as an engineer or a mathematician if you want."
>"BUT IF WE WNT TO DO DAT Y WE NOT JUST GO TO COLLEGE 4 MATH?!?!"

Then they act all smug because they think they've outwitted the teacher and are now geniuses in educational philosophy. Why is everyone in high school so retarded? Please tell me they get better?

>> No.2654280

they don't get better

but as you grow up you get to meet more like-minded people and that's the good news

>> No.2654291

Most kids in high school never asked to be there. The system forces them to go. Whether or not you think it's for their own good, forcing someone to do something is not usually a good way to inspire interest in it, so it's no surprise these kids don't want to be there.

>> No.2654296
File: 161 KB, 361x361, zombified_wb20110306022742757939.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2654296

Why do you think yourself any better than them OP?

You are such a douche-bag.

>> No.2654303

Once you get to college and pick a difficult major, you'll meet more serious minded non retarded people that are quite enjoyable to be around

>> No.2654307

OP be less douchey

>> No.2654312

>in High School
you are not better than them you underagefag

>> No.2654317

when a woman does that it's hot
because they will end up as housewives and whores

>> No.2654328

>>2654271
They get worse because they don't grow up people who feel entitled to shit usually stay that way unfortunately

>> No.2654350

little do they know that you don't need to LEARN anything to do ANYTHING in the real world; you are just a peon to your boss.

computational mathematics is taught because a lot of people turn around in college and regret not knowing mathematics in high school. once you grow up and realize mommy and daddy won't pay your bills anymore, and that your shitty high schools skills aren't going to get you a job, you will regret not knowing math because you'll be behind the curriculum to becoming an engineer, banker, etc. every teacher should tell kids that math IS useful in the real world because kids don't know what they WANT yet. it's that plain and simple.

also, the only required skills are pretty much essay writing, financial knowledge, computer office skills, and programming. those should be the main courses taught in high school.

>> No.2654365

1. Read:
http://heyyoureadthis.atspace.com/Education.html
2. Agree
3. ????
4. Profit!

>> No.2654375

>>2654303
>>2654291
>>2654280
All these. I'm now in Uni and having the time of my life studying physics, and not having to deal with such idiocy.

>> No.2654387

>pre-calc
>high school

are you 15 or what OP?

>> No.2654397
File: 239 KB, 900x825, Troll_Face_on_Flash_by_Koshi_San.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2654397

>>2654387

>> No.2654404

nope, people are consistently retarded throughout life, you just see them less often.

>> No.2654420

>>2654404

Where's that comic of that guy starring into a crowded subway, while everyone has the same thought that they're the only special people in the world. And that everyone else around them is a glass eyed moron who cant think?

>> No.2654423

OP just jelly of their ignorance

>> No.2654426

i think a lot of parents consider public high schools to be pretty much just daycare for their teenagers. in my school of ~2500 i'd say i knew maybe around 10 people who were genuinely intelligent. everyone else just did the minimum to get through...

>> No.2654427

>>2654271
I used to be like that

Then I grew up

>> No.2654438

>>2654271
protip OP: you are the retarded, also but hurt loser with shitty job

>> No.2654458
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2654458

From my experience, the smartest ones where the laziest. The pretty smart ones did pretty well. And the average ones either didn't do anything worthwhile, or the worked so hard they performed better than their smarter counterparts. I'm one of those average people. I know kids with high IQ's(real IQ tests, not internet bullshit), but i worked much harder than them. They're working at starbucks and walmart while I'm working on my economics degree. Its a shame.

>> No.2654471

>>2654365
That seems like more people would cruise through school because of no scheduled exams and they can peruse their interests, which include smoking weed, doing nothing, and trying to have sex with girls.

>> No.2654495

>>2654458

The real shame is pieces of shit like you who think their high and mighty. The world would be a much, much better place if people stopped caring about being better then anyone or everyone else. I guess thats just humanity though, right?

>> No.2654508

>>2654471
You misinterpreted it then. The point is that people can do what they want with their lives. If they have the necessary skills to survive and don't want to learn this or that arbitrary material, then it's not forced down their throats. They don't need it. Also, remember that what you described is what most people do anyways. 99% of the material "taught" in schools is forgotten asap by the students.

>> No.2654519

>>2654458
This. I'm a lazy procrastinatin' mother hubbard, but I get away with it because I'm quite capable. 2nd year undergraduate just about maintaining a >70 at the moment.
It's annoying because I realise how much better I could do, AND that I'm complacent because pre-university education was a fucking breeze. Now I wonder if I'll ever even get to be a doctor.

>> No.2654527
File: 96 KB, 640x427, 1282672655094.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2654527

>>2654495

Think what you want, It's not gonna change my mind. I don't know where YOU get off telling me that caring about my friends in high school is a bad thing. If they really enjoyed their new jobs, more power to them, but they don't. They fucking hate their jobs. Maybe i should have included that part. They ARE better than me, that's my point. They're far smarter and can learn things at twice my pace. Maybe i smug motherfucker because i did something that they can't, even when they had a seemly insurmountable advantage.

>> No.2654532

i worked with a guy who got a degree in architecture

when he was in college, he said it was kinda silly because they made you learn how to do all the math for (basic) structural analysis by hand/calculator..... but at the same time, the instructors would tell you that once you were working, you would never be allowed to do it by hand at all. you would look it up in a reference: such as, for a wall of X thickness and Y load, the steel/brick/whatever beams must be Z size in cross-section..... like that

the reason is that when you design large structures, you are never allowed to pull figures out of your ass. when you decide on the parameters for a given part, you must provide the information you used to determine the requirements, and provide a record of the reference you used to determine the figure you arrived at. you never find the number yourself, you must always pull it out of a table in a standard engineering reference.

so they are required to learn all this math,,,,, that they really aren't going to use on the job.

???????

you want maximum overqualification horse-shit though, look up all the stuff that a pharmacist in the US has to pass.
......
in the DISTANT past, they would make a diagnosis and mix drugs for specific patients, but they're not allowed to do any of that anymore.... All they do is count pills, fill out government forms and look up drug side-effects in a computer database

>> No.2654537

>>2654365
ah ha ha ha

>Unemployment is real and many such people lack vital foraging skills, forcing them to rely on welfare or panhandling.

AH HA HA HA.

>> No.2654557

>>2654365
anti humanist scum detected.
He probably thinks we're all better off being hunter/gatherers, also.

>> No.2654564

They're right though.

They're going to be baggage clerks, assistant managers and fast food chains, maybe one of them will end up as a secretary for a big company, or doing human resources.

They don't have to learn calculus. They will never use it.
And you should pity them for this.

>> No.2654570

>>2654557
"Humanism is an approach in study, philosophy, or practice that focuses on human values and concerns."

How is that anti-humanism and why is it scum?

>> No.2654584
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2654584

>>2654365
>Teach survival skills in school. Survival is possibly the most important activity for an organism, rivaled only by reproduction. Most Americans have no idea how to survive on their own and would starve without supermarkets and restaurants. We like to assume that we'll always have an economy to support us but this is a dangerous belief. Unemployment is real and many such people lack vital foraging skills, forcing them to rely on welfare or panhandling. This makes them a drain on the system. Furthermore, education in survival skills can impart to students a love and respect of nature, which is critically missing in our current age of environmental destruction.

Umm, what?
This whole paragraph was out of the blue and completely retarded. Not only is there no guarantee that children will be interested in "survival skills" but I know I've used algebra and geometry in day to day life a lot more than I've used "survival skills."

>> No.2654609

>>2654584
There's no guarantee that survival will interest them, but it's something they should learn. If the choose to ignore it, then that's not the system's fault.

Regarding math, the link is not discouraging the teaching of math in school. It's discouraging the current approach of forcing math. Most people forget all of their math skills as soon as the test is over, so forcing it on them is just a waste of everyone's time. The link encourages making education available to students, just not forcing it down their throats.

Regarding your final comment, it's irrelevant. If people want to get a job and rely on the system to survive, they can do that, but this gives them the alternative so they aren't dependent on it. Again, the link is not encouraging replacing everything with survival education.

>> No.2654615

The kids in high school who bitch about "not learning useful job skills" are the ones who dont go to college and get a shit tier bottom rung job. They then spend the rest of their lives complaining about their superiors who did go to college.

>> No.2654627

>>2654365

>Teach survival skills in school. Survival is possibly the most important activity for an organism, rivaled only by reproduction. Most Americans have no idea how to survive on their own and would starve without supermarkets and restaurants. We like to assume that we'll always have an economy to support us but this is a dangerous belief. Unemployment is real and many such people lack vital foraging skills, forcing them to rely on welfare or panhandling. This makes them a drain on the system. Furthermore, education in survival skills can impart to students a love and respect of nature, which is critically missing in our current age of environmental destruction.

This whole paragraph was fucking hilarious. I was following along for a bit, and then all of a sudden "Teach them survival skills!"

In an earlier time where public education was brand new and there was room for experimentation, I would have totally been ok with trying out a system where education was free IF you chose to go. In today's world it would be impossible to revamp the education system in any huge way. When they change education these days they mean revise the curriculum a bit, maybe the hours of operation of the school day, maybe pay the teachers more etc.

They don't actually want to do anything progressive, it would scare the shit out of the majority of the voters (speaking of America).

>> No.2654658

>>2654609

I don't think education failed America's youth, I think it's America's culture.

It just doesn't encourage anyone to find a passion and to find knowledge. It encourages people to entertain themselves and consume, thats the extent of America's mass culture. And to make money.

I don't know, America is about as close to a Huxleyan society as the world has. It just encourages a lot of superficial things and immediate pleasures. I know when I was a kid I saw school as this chore you had to do, and it never EVER occured to me to want to pursue learning things on my own time, and I don't think that was due to my personality because I love learning things now. I think it was due to my environment.

>> No.2654663

>>2654584
The whole page is anti-urbanization. Go up one, and look at the other two articles.


Well, if you have time to waste anyways....

>> No.2654701

>>2654658
American culture and consumerism is certainly a significant issue, but I think public education is still fundamentally cruel. It's essentially tyranny; we tell children what to do because we have the power to make them do it. The justification is that "it's for their own good," but that's totally subjective. You could find ten different people and each person would have a different opinion about what subjects should be mandatory. The truth is that nothing is really necessary, except survival. If people don't know how to survive then they need to get a job and that requires job skills and a degree, etc, which necessitates the entire schooling system. But this is an alternative. Rather than forcing them to learn subjects A, B, and C, which may or may not benefit them in their life, give them the skills to survive then let them do what they want, while leaving educational resources available to them.

Frankly, it's cruel to completely remove someone's autonomy, regardless of the justification. If I put a gun to your head and forced you to eat vegetables and work out, would you appreciate it? People deserve free will.

>> No.2654724

>>2654609
>If the choose to ignore it, then that's not the system's fault.
The fact that you don't see the irony in this statement right here.
I give up. There's no arguing with stupid this powerful.

>> No.2654733

>>2654701
So we should let every student in public education to decide if they want to go to school or have fun all day? Yeah that would make a productive and safe environment.

You're assuming kids today actually want to learn when they have instant gratification available to them in many other forms with "learning" of any kind last on their list of fun.

>> No.2654737

Three days ago I had an hour long debate with my history teacher over whether the liberal arts education system was better than a more specialized system.

At the end of class we agreed to disagree as it came down to whether or not you believe in the platonic values or not.

>> No.2654738

>>2654724
I recognize what you're trying to imply but there's a difference. If they absolutely don't want to learn survival skills then they don't have to. But the point is that people don't learn when they aren't interested, so this method cuts out the wasted time (which is most of the time spent in schools).

>> No.2654747

>>2654733
Most of them don't learn anyway. Find any high school graduate who didn't get a math-related college degree. 99% of them can't do most high-school level math. The system as it is now doesn't really work.

The other point is that, if people want to have fun all day, why are you trying to stop them? Once they have the means to survive, they should have as much fun as possible.

>> No.2654754

>>2654458
I think I know how one could solve that issue.

If one were to make it simple to progress, grouping students after ability and not age, I believe students would be more motivated. First of all, noone would be forced to repeat something they already have satisfactory knowledge of, letting talented students easily progress to the next course given they know the prerequisites.

My second point I don't think I need to explain very much, that the resulting competition between students wanting to prove superior to another would motivate them.

The third and final point could go either way. It is fact that some people would be left behind by their peers, which would probably result in them either working to catch up or going "fuck it", but I don't see this as a major concern. The reason for this is that if someone is too dumb to pass, it is very unlikely he has any intellectual potential and if it's simply from a lack of motivation the student falls behind I don't see how he would be more motivated by having his peers being stuck at the same level as him.

A system such as this definately would've increased my performance, but please do share your thoughts on the subject.

>> No.2654756

>>2654271
Forcing people to become educated is the best decision one could make, given the circumstances. Any other option would require assumptions about the nature of people involved, the de-prioritization of education of the general populace, or a radical change in the nature of the educational system.

Now, I happen to think at least one of those options is the right choice, but as long as we're talking about "Don't force people to learn math" vs "force people to learn math", I think the latter is the one that will yield the most general math education. Might it hinder those who actually want to learn? Perhaps. Might it force those who have no want or need for math to waste their time? Probably. I still think requiring proficiency in several levels of mathematics is good for the development of society.

Personally, speaking outside logical choice and stepping into the realm of opinion, I think we should go the route of eliminating most of ARITHMETIC from the public education system. We have computers now, and I think kids could get into math much more easily if they weren't required any amount of skill in calculation from the get-go. I think that removing the pointless tedium that no high-level math student is required to go through anyway is a good way to increase intellectual investment in mathematics.

There's a good talk about it on TED.com
http://www.ted.com/talks/conrad_wolfram_teaching_kids_real_math_with_computers.html

>> No.2654764

>>2654756
If we entirely switched to a binary system, arithmetic would become a piece of cake. Of course, there's no way to realistically implement this.

>> No.2654767

>>2654701
I really don't feel like writing an essay in defense of urban living, but that's the only reasonable reply I can give to this post.

I will say that new life is a burden on those who already exist, at least until we fashion you into something self-sustaining in our societal group. Simply waking away and not participating isn't free for us, so we default to educating you as we see fit.

Yes, this is selfish, but so was the decision (implying) to birth you.

>> No.2654774

>>2654747
Fun cost money. Fun is consuming in today's america. If someone wants to have fun thats their choice, but they need money to do so and a majority of the time if they aren't educated they will just steal it.

Generalizations everywhere I know.

>> No.2654786

>>2654774
>Fun cost money. Fun is consuming in today's america.
Not necessarily.
>If someone wants to have fun thats their choice, but they need money to do so and a majority of the time if they aren't educated they will just steal it.
This is a huge assumption. Are you implying that all people who want money choose to steal? Under the proposed system, people who want money can get a job, while those who don't want it don't need it. In fact, if everyone knew how to survive, crime rates would probably decrease dramatically, as no one would need to steal to survive.

>> No.2654787

>>2654756
>I think we should go the route of eliminating most of ARITHMETIC from the public education system.

I do arithmetic in my head all the time. You're just trying to hawk your calculators.

>> No.2654790

>>2654365

This guy missed the point of education. Additionally, anyone who says that school will "teach children skills which will get them jobs in the future" also missed the point.

There are two main points to the traditional western liberal arts high school: #1 show children a variety of subjects so that they may develop interests in these subjects which they can then choose refine through specialized colleges. #2 Teach them to appreciate the world around them via the subjects they are taught. For example, someone going to into Art History may have no real appreciation of art, yet they would consider the Mona Lisa beautiful simply because society deems it so. After they have completely the Art History course they may have a greater understanding and appreciation of Art by having a foundation for what makes these paintings beautiful, why a Mondrian isn't just a few lines placed arbitrarily. They learn math to get a basic foundation in logic which will then be used by science which can then be used to get a greater understanding of the world.

>> No.2654796

>>2654458

It's true here in the UK, too. A lot of the smart ones did nothing for their GCSEs (exams at 16) and came out with top grades. They then went into their A-Levels with the same attitude and did horrendously, thereby not being able to carry on. Only the geniuses and those who worked hard actually got through to university. It's a shame.

>> No.2654800

>>2654786
You think someone just wants to survive? We're humans in america not bums who just want to survive.

>people who want money can get a job

They need an education to get a job. Even the shittiest job at burger king needs some critical thinking thats developed in school even if they don't remember wtf they've learned in terms of knowledge itself.

>> No.2654807

>>2654790
We do a lot more than just "show them a variety of subjects." We force them to memorize these subjects and regurgitate them to us on command. If you want to expose people to different subjects, that's great, but it's very different from forcing them to sit in an uncomfortable chair for six hours a day while someone lectures to them about something, and they're only taking notes because they know they'll be tested on them later.

>> No.2654813

>uni without critical thinking
>only in America

>> No.2654817

>>2654800
>They need an education to get a job.

Yeah, duh. The link is not promoting an abolition of education. It's just discouraging forcing people to memorize things against their will. If they want to learn and get an education, the resources are there for them.

>> No.2654823

>>2654807

Yeah, but if we didn't force them to memorize these things they wouldn't give two shits about it.

Hell, even people who would actually have some interest in a subject in math wouldn't learn ANYTHING if they weren't forced to.

>> No.2654824

>>2654813
>smug european who has no idea what he is talking about

>> No.2654833

Why are we fucking supporting these retards? Seriously, we should LET them waste their lives away. If they're not willing to work in a capitalistic society then we should LET THEM DROWN. They're a massive waste of funds/resources. Jesus fucking Christ

>> No.2654837

I think the highest math you should be required to take in High School is algebra 1.

Give the students more control of what classes they take similar to college.

No point forcing all the liberal arts and humanities retards to take higher maths when they're not going to touch it again when they get to college.

It would cut down on disruptions and teachers having to slow down the class so the future art and philosophy majors can keep up.

Let the people smart enough to take the math and science classes do so and let the idiots shoot themselves in the foot.

>> No.2654840
File: 46 KB, 376x401, sheeple.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2654840

>>2654420
xkcd.com/610

>> No.2654845

>>2654807
Stop being so melodramatic. Yes, standardized testing creates obnoxious incentives, but normal classroom testing simply makes sure you were listening, and their difficulty (or lack thereof) demonstrates as much.

>> No.2654847

>>2654823
That is absolutely false. I know plenty of people, including myself, who enjoy learning and do so without school. Furthermore, most people who have been forced to "learn" math remember less than 1% of it. I know my (adult) cousin once called her daughter because she couldn't figure out how to calculate something that was essentially a unit conversions problem. Most Americans can't do math. Forcing it on them doesn't usually teach them, they just memorize something for a test then forget it afterward.

>> No.2654862

>>2654845
>melodramatic
Are you kidding? Public school is fucking miserable for most people. I want my twelve years back.

>> No.2654873

>>2654837

Philosophy majors should be able to do maths to at least 2nd year degree level by the time they graduate if they're doing a course worth anything.

>> No.2654881

I'm more annoyed no one complains about english. Essays will not be useful irl and infact will piss people off. They want it in memo format if your sending an E-mail or just get to the point in person.

>> No.2654882

>>2654862
Public school is obnoxious because kids are faggots.

>> No.2654897

>>2654847

#1 Most people don't care about learning. We are on sci, so obviously we do.

#2 MANY people I know have jobs in subjects they had no idea existed prior to schooling. Even if someone is interested in learning, you can't expect them to learn from every subject on their own, and because of this you also can't expect them to find out about the subject that they could truly shine in.

>> No.2654923

>>2654897
I know; I think you're misinterpreting my argument. I'm not against letting people try a variety of subjects; I'm against forcing them to learn it when they have decided they aren't interested.

>> No.2654928

I dropped out in middle school. Worked my ass of and now I own my own business and tell other people what to do. Never had to deal with high school bullshit. Also self taught physics and mathematics at the graduate level in my free time.

>> No.2654931

ITT: manchilds that cant get pussy and but hurt

>> No.2654963

>>2654923
>Day 1, First Period
>Teacher: "Today we'll discuss-"
>Student 1: "GAY!" *farts*
>Half of class erupts in laughter.

They weren't interested when they walked in the door. Hell, in my experience, they think success is only for rich white families. I had people walk up to me out of the blue, and remind me of this. Why should I respect what they think is 'interesting'?

>> No.2654967

>>2654928

If you aren't bullshitting that is because you aren't a moron, and most people are morons. They have no concept or capacity to teach themselves simply because of the society we are in (talking about Murica).

OR rather, they have the means with which to teach themselves, but they don't have the personal capacity to do it.

For people who are self driven and have the capacity to educate themselves public education is DEFINATLY a waste of time. These kinds of people already seem to be able to think critically and form their own curriculum quite accuractely to what they want to achieve and learn.

But thats kind of irrelevant to the topic now, it seems to be about "How could you fix public education?"

>> No.2654978

>>2654963
>Why should I respect what they think is 'interesting'?

Because they're human beings who should have free will.

>> No.2654981

In the words of Bill Bryson "Obnoxious youngsters with bad complexion had existed since time immemorial..."

Or something like that anyway. This is normal, do you know any (for arguments sake) 40 year olds like this?

>> No.2654983
File: 4 KB, 300x57, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2654983

>>2654978
They are children, who will more likely than not make the wrong decision. Because they are children.

>> No.2654993

>>2654983
Also, they are, en masse, making the decision to become a massively useless underclass. This decision will burden everyone who actually wants to do things with their life.

>> No.2655001

>>2654983
see:
>>2654701

>> No.2655011

>>2654993
Perhaps they are not capable of being a non underclass.
Society always had places for mediocre people with minimal motivation, now it doesn't.

>> No.2655013

Education only starts getting good when it becomes voluntary rather than compulsory, and people are there because they want to be.

I've always had a problem with the way maths is taught through primary and up to high school. If english was taught the way maths was, it would involve learning the dictionary, and copying out vocabulary. Granted, mathematics is axiomatic, so there is always going to be some "dictionary work", but for the most part, maths is a rich and incredibly interesting subject, even at high school level.

>> No.2655021

>>2655001
see:
>>2654767
>>2654845

>> No.2655040

>>2655021
The first quote essentially comes down to morals and that's totally subjective. Regarding the second quote, public schooling is miserable for most students and standardized testing doesn't cause learning; it causes temporary memorization.

>> No.2655044

>>2654817
>If they want to learn and get an education, the resources are there for them.

You're assuming students in today's life and age want to actually learn anything that isn't fun.

Back in the 70's you had a point, there was nothing to do but learn. Today there are a million things to do other than learn. You assume people will want to go off and learn on their own but forget to realize that people today only care about themselves in the here and now and not their future. Its all about instant gratification and learning is not instant gratification.

I'm assuming a lot but its still holds true as assumptions exist in the first place because they're true most of the time.

>> No.2655049

>>2654701
>implying that children are people
laughinggirls.jpg

>> No.2655067

>>2655040
Hardly morals. It's us making a wise investment, or insuring against massive financial obligations (welfare). The moral part is not stuffing you in a ghetto, or forming a reservation for you assholes to experience 'survival'.

>> No.2655069

>>2655044
This point has already been discussed previously. If people want to sit on their ass and play WoW all day, then as human beings, they can make that choice. As long as they have the means to survive, and they're not bothering anyone else, then they can do whatever they want. If you're really so worried about people doing things that aren't productive, why are you on 4chan?

>> No.2655095

>>2655067
I never promoted a system in which people rely on welfare. I don't know how you got there from this.

>> No.2655103

>>2655067
The second part, memorization.

Disregard standardized testing as I did in the argument.
I'll summarize it again: public schooling is fucking easy. If it's miserable, its because you're bored with how easy it is.

>> No.2655120

>>2655095
A massive uneducated class is a financial burden. You cannot survive in our society, so we simply feed you or we reserve vast tracts of land for you that we cannot use, because your broke ass is playing survivor man on it. That is where the welfare is comming from.

As I said before, "walking away" isn't free. That is, if you want us to respect your fundamental human rights.

>> No.2655126
File: 8 KB, 275x183, disgust.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2655126

>>2654271

Someone's mad that they're the grade's least popular student....
Beta fag

>> No.2655135

>>2655103

It could also be miserable because it feels like a waste of time. But that thought made me consider that for a kid who really wants to learn it isn't necessarily a waste of time because in middle school and highschool I remember that we never got through a whole textbook. We always got abuot halfway through or so. A student that loves learning could just fly ahead of the class so it wouldn't be a total waste of time to him. He could just use class time to study instead of hearing the teacher babble shit he already knows from learning on his own.

So kids in general are both having their time wasted and wasting their own time because they have no desire to learn. So school should probably be shortened, so it imposes less on students lives (In america you have to go till you're 18, that fucking sucks), and it should focus on insilling a want to learn in the students rather then throwing them straight into a standardized conveyor belt of facts and definitions that cause them to zone out until the bell rings.

>> No.2655148

it's okay, OP...i had similar experiences in HS. guess what those kids do now? they work at mcdonalds, bag groceries, popped out a couple of kids and live off the govt, or got sent to prison.

frankly, if they don't want to be there, i say don't prolong the agony for them. NH raised the dropout age from 16 to 18, forcing the kids who don't want to be in school to stay there and make life a living hell for those kids who ACTUALLY want to learn. fuck that. they don't want to be there, hell i sure don't want them dragging down my education.

>> No.2655156

>>2655120
>You cannot survive in our society, so we simply feed you or we reserve vast tracts of land for you that we cannot use, because your broke ass is playing survivor man on it.

Letting someone "survive" is not inherently a burden on society. There is a lot of unused land and there is an enormous amount of food that gets wasted every year. I'm not talking about society giving people stuff for free; I'm talking about people taking what's already there and unused.

>> No.2655174

Going by this thread you would think that there are only scientists and engineers and dumbfuck construction workers. None of you had kids, ever, please.

>> No.2655190

You know, as much as I love the sciences and maths, I would have no qualms about dropping calc & non-intro courses for lessons about how to file your taxes, register with gov't services, cooking, and other skills that are actually used everyday.

I'd much prefer to chop out the history lessons about mayans and indians first, but "science is hard", so I see less struggle to cut them out.

>> No.2655205

>>2655069
I don't care that people do things that aren't productive, I care that they do things that hurt other people in negative ways. I don't care if a person decides to not go to school as long as they don't rob someone because they're too fucking stupid to get a job.

By your logic, your post wasn't productive as you too are on 4chan.

>> No.2655208

>>2655156
Here's a proposal: formalize a process to drop out of American society. You're banned from using any taxpayer services including (but not limited to) welfare, sewers water treatment and medical care.
You're also excused from paying taxes, but only on the condition that you make no money.

>> No.2655211

>>2655190

This. I'd have given anything to know how to do my taxes, how to register for social services. How to manage finances.

I learned plenty of things in school but the only practical thing that I learnt and remember is how to wire an electrical plug. Everything else I've had to learn the hard way - self taught.

>> No.2655212

>>2655208
I appreciate this, though it's still not solving the educational system.

>> No.2655241

>>2655211
don't they teach financial stuff in HS economics anymore? i remember learning to write a check, balance a checkbook, manage a budget, fill out simple tax forms, etc. we also had to make our own company, market and sell a product, and all the stuff that went along with it. wtf are they teaching in hs econ now???

>> No.2655284

we need to change schools so that teachers can hit students again without worrying about getting sued

>> No.2655301

>>2655284

So fucking true.

>> No.2655308

>>2655284
That is called tyranny.

>> No.2655328

>>2655308
Or Corporal punishment.

It needs to be implemented at a young age during elementary school because it won't mean shit at high school if they aren't subconciously thinking they cant get away with stupid shit. But most elementary teachers today are whore soriety cunts who think teaching elementary is babysitting and treat kids as such.

>> No.2655333

>>2655308

It also enforces discipline and means the kids wouldn't pull half the shit they do now.

>> No.2655340

>>2655333
First, nice half-devil.

Second, see:
>>2654701

>> No.2655401

>>2655340

Compare the attitudes of our generation with that of our parents'. Then compare their parents' with theirs. There's an obvious decline in work-ethic and self-discipline displayed in each successive generation that's in no small part due to the increased leniency and acceptance of bad behaviour in classrooms. They may not like it at the time, but it's something they'll appreciate in a number of years' time. You have to remember that they don't always know what they want.

I agree with your points on being able to choose what they want to learn though. I've always thought the American system just made everyone mediocre at everything.

>> No.2655491

>>2655401
Generations before saw their parents destroying themselves with physical work and realized schoolwork was the easy lazy way to make it. Too many people have white collar middle class parents who don't really do anything and they suspect they can coast the same way.

>> No.2655525

>>2655491

Yeah you're right. It's sheer laziness that means we, as a species, are completely underachieving.

>> No.2655544

What's with all of this underachievement crap? If you can survive on your own and are enjoying your life, that's all you need.

>> No.2655580

>>2655401
>Compare the attitudes of our generation with that of our parents'. Then compare their parents' with theirs. There's an obvious decline in work-ethic and self-discipline displayed in each successive generation

You're correct in observing that people always think the generation that comes after them are less disciplined, polite, etc. People are saying that today, but they were saying it during the 19th and 18th century as well. But do you really think that people are constantly getting worse? That a few hundred years ago everyone was perfect, and that the human society is constantly going downhill. Or could it possibly be that old people are biased and don't remember exactly how they were as kids. They see that the next generation is a lot less mature then them, but they fail to realize that they were just as immature when they were young .

>> No.2655630

>>2655580

Of course not, but the exception was that the baby boomer NEVER DID grow up. Our generation is even worse. That's the difference.

>> No.2656442

Sructural argument: anyone who's ever going to be allowed to vote or to be voted for needs a certain baseline education, otherwise democracy implodes horribly. This includes being able to read well enough to get information, knowing something about our history and what our rights are, and knowing enough math that it's hard to be conned by lies made of numbers.

Those people voting to cut taxes on the rich (even though they'll never be rich) and cut social services (even though they're often already using said services)? They failed algebra 2.

>> No.2656493

>>2654532
pharmacy major here, i agree

>> No.2656527

>>2654532
I am an electronics engineer, and I totally disagree.
Without knowing and solving hard math mentally, inception of good design is not possible, especially in R&D.

>> No.2657591

god i hope so i dropped out at 17, had a problem with skipping when i was in grade 9. i got serious and went back to hit the books to bad i had already been shortlisted andd put in retard math. stupid public school system works at the pace of the slowest student.
i remember kids who would come to class high if at all and then the teacher would have to spend an extra week explaining everything to them.
long story short i dropped out got an apprentice ship made a but load of money then GED it up and went to college anyway.
point is don't let them get you down

>> No.2657595

drop out guy again
sorry for the terrible grammar and english i spend to much time on b and fit so ive become lazy

>> No.2657691

>>2654495
It doesn't have to be, but if you want so succeed in the real world you have to think of yourself. Life sucks, doesn't it?