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/sci/ - Science & Math

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2649129 No.2649129 [Reply] [Original]

We have numerous, extremely naive assumptions built into our thinking, and our most venerable explanatory engines, such as science, happen also to be our oldest explanatory engines, and therefore they have built into them the most naive and unexamined assumptions.

Most people will never realize there are things that exist outside our normal flow of perception.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1jPeG1LlaQ

>> No.2649151

Assumptions like what? Do you have any examples?
>Most people will never realize there are things that exist outside our normal flow of perception.
Again, like what? The cosmic background radiation? The structure of a molecule? Ultraviolet light? The sound of a 3 Hz tone bouncing off the surface of the ocean? These are all things we cannot perceive. Your statement is either trivial and true, or profound but false.

>> No.2649161

>Most people will never realize there are things that exist outside our normal flow of perception.
Prove it.

>> No.2649166

>>2649151
>Your statement is either trivial and true, or profound but false.
That's about what I came here to say.

/thread

>> No.2649189

>>2649166

There are trivial truths and the great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true.
Niels Bohr

>> No.2649214

>>2649189
You fail logic, I see.
I was supporting the possibility that OP's stament is profound but false. Meaning, having strong and far-reaching implications, but false.

Mr. Bohr said that great "truths" also have truth in their opposites. Not that profound falsehoods are true.

>> No.2649226

>>2649151
How can I explain something so simple and profound, so natural and primal, using a human made language? Words can explain the most complicated yet they fail with simplest of things.

>> No.2649234

>>2649226
Your statement is devoid of content.

>> No.2649242

>>2649214
Just to be clear, this [>>2649189] is not me [>>2649151].

I hate it when people make posts without making clear they're new in the discussion.

>> No.2649250

>>2649242
>I hate it when people make posts without making clear they're new in the discussion.
Sorry. I usually specify. Maybe I should temp-trip more often.

>> No.2649254

>>2649226
You can at least try to explain instead of posting little stoner rants like this. Again, which assumptions are built into our thinking?

>> No.2649264

>>2649254
That we possess understanding of reality that we don't actually possess.

See: OP

>> No.2649265

People are scared of the unknown. They'd rather go on living in a house of cards.

>> No.2649266

>>2649129
>Most people will never realize there are things that exist outside our normal flow of perception.

However we can build devices that can sense things that we cannot perceive. We have become very very good at making devices that expand our perception. So much so that if you can detect it odds are it does not exist.

>> No.2649274

>>2649264
Are you completely and entirely unable to make a coherent post, or are you just fucking with us?

>> No.2649283

>>2649254
The assumption that you're not a great cosmic being but rather a dull shell of half-conscious internal monologue machine that's stuck in a terrible infinite loop.

>> No.2649290

>>2649266
Or, more likely, we haven't built a machine that can detect it

>> No.2649298

>>2649274
I was mocking OP for having delusions of insight.

>> No.2649302

>>2649283

What's a great cosmic being? What does it do? What makes it great or cosmic or being?

>> No.2649304

>>2649283
And what would give us any reason to doubt that assumption? I have the feeling this discussion is headed towards one either about solipsism or one about DMT.

>> No.2649309

>>2649298
Well you did an excellent job because I mistook you for OP.

>> No.2649317

>>2649298
>delusions of insight.
I'm going to steal that phrase for later use.

>> No.2649328

>>2649304
>>2649302
Rationality is insufficient.

>> No.2649329

>>2649328
Which is why we have experimentation.

>> No.2649334

How interesting..please go on

>> No.2649340

Let me guess

OP tried a drug for the first time and now thinks the faeries in his mind are real.

>> No.2649347

>>2649340

OP's really into Joe Rogan/Terence McKenna.

>> No.2649359

>>2649290
You're so naive that it makes me chuckle. :)

You will learn. Sooner or later, you will have no other choice.

>> No.2649365

>>2649359

And some day you will die, and the grand cosmic mystery will not be any more revealed to you.

>> No.2649374

>>2649365
Perhaps not, but I will have lived for the spirit of it. Can you say the same?

>> No.2649404

>>2649374

I will have lived for the spirit of my world view, abiding openness to thought and empirical inquisition. You call those who don't have numinous and grand experiences on DMT naive, yet you fail to provide a single example of what the hell you're talking about.

>> No.2649430

While it is true that there are certainly things about reality that we are not able to know due to the limitations of our minds and capabilities, this is NOT a good reason to start cooking up pseudoscientific new-age quackery.

Of those "things" that lie outside our range, nothing conclusive can be said, let alone neo-Hindu absolute consciousness God whatever bullshit.

>> No.2649442

>>2649283
what? great is just a value preference. I understand that the brain works through some of the same mechanisms that machines use. The distinction between machine and human is there for a reason.

>> No.2649453

>>2649404
It's a good answer. I'm certainly not calling anyone naive, I'm just saying how we've forgotten what we really are.

Somehow I doubt any of you really remembers, or cares for that matter.

>> No.2649459

>>2649453

Your idea of "what we really are" is just a big, albeit attractive, assumption.

>> No.2649464

>>2649453
So you do remember? Please enlighten me in your knowledge about ourselves.

>> No.2649469

>>2649453
"what we really are?" A projection of our imagination

>> No.2649492

>>2649459
I'd say the reality you inhibit is the more absurd of the two.

>>2649464
We are a power that is ancient beyond your wildest imagination. We chose this realm not by ourselves but by our ancestors. That's all there is to it, you need to feel it if you really wish to know it for sure.

>> No.2649498

>>2649453

Forgotten what/how? Do you mean in the sense that people have strayed from understanding the long history of cosmic evolution and how special that makes life on this planet? If so, I agree.

Still, I feel like whatever it is we're discussing is only in vague terms, so can you just expound much more on what it is you believe?

>> No.2649501

>>2649492
Sorry, I meant "inhabit".

>> No.2649508

>>2649492
You just went full retard, dude.

>> No.2649513

>>2649492

I am inhibiting nothing. You are, on the contrary, either making things up and keeping that fact hidden with wishful thinking and cognitive dissonance, or genuinely misguided and not aware of the untenability of your assumptions.

>> No.2649514
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2649514

>We chose this realm not by ourselves but by our ancestors.

>> No.2649520
File: 14 KB, 407x286, 1289859676556.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2649520

>>2649492
>We are a power that is ancient beyond your wildest imagination. We chose this realm not by ourselves but by our ancestors. That's all there is to it, you need to feel it if you really wish to know it for sure.

>> No.2649529

>>2649514
It's late ;)

You know what I meant. The problem seems to be that all you desire are words, words and more words. You have the internet for that, all I can offer is some wisdom. If that's not good enough for you, I suggest we all just sage this thread and forget it ever existed. :)

>> No.2649534

>>2649529
He's not complaining about your grammar. He's pointing out that you are batshit insane.

>> No.2649537

>>2649529

Well, no.

We're not fucking telepathic, so we must use words to convey our thoughts, and if they're so important to you that you must spread the good word, tell it to us so that we may better understand your position.

>> No.2649539

>>2649529

As far as you know, we have inquired into the nature of our minds honestly.

That we do or do not have an attachment to words is not the issue here. Even without using discursive thinking one can look into themselves and see that what you are saying genuinely has no basis in reality.

Your wisdom has no value.

>> No.2649540

OP what was the point of that video

other than that your post basically states "the universe it a pretty fucked up place yo" which is true

>> No.2649546

>>2649529
Seems to me like you are beginning to doubt yourself. Maybe we should just forgot this pathetic excuse for a conversation ever happened.

But to be fair, I'll give you another chance. How about you transfer your wisdom to us in any way you favor, wether it be with words or by throwing cookies in my face.

>> No.2649566

>>2649546
At this point I'd take the cookies.

>> No.2649583

>>2649546
Then let me share some of my wisdom with you:

There are only three things in life that are for sure. First, you were born. Second, you are alive right now. Third, you will die.

Can you truly understand what I'm on about? To be honest, I'm not sure you have the capacity. I certainly wish you would have. Then we really could talk about something.

>> No.2649613

>>2649583
>Can you truly understand what I'm on about? To be honest, I'm not sure you have the capacity.
Unwarranted self-importance. You make statements that are either trivially true or devoid of meaning, and then moan about how no-one is able to talk to you on your level.

>> No.2649615

>>2649583

I, for one, recognize these truisms.

So, go on.

>> No.2649621

>>2649583
> First, you were born.
uh, no. People have told me I was born, but I can't be sure I wasn't cloned. Assuming the universe wasn't created last thursday and all my memories aren't just delusions.

> Second, you are alive right now.
I guess. "Alive" is a bit philosophically weighted a word, so is "now", but it certainly appears that I am experiencing some sort of state of existence.

> Third, you will die.
Hardly certain. In ten seconds the universe might fade away and I could discover I'm an immortal god and my whole life was a dream to keep myself occupied. Or something even more bizarre.

you really suck at philosophical skepticism

>> No.2649629

>>2649613
I didn't say no-one. I said you.

>> No.2649633

>>2649629
*yawn*
People who don't have large egos are unaffected by such ad-hominem attacks. But yours is massive. Should I start poking it?

>> No.2649649

>>2649498
>>2649537
>>2649615

These are me.

I'm trying hard to get you to say something remotely concrete, but I fear you'll just keep reverting to nonsense like this:

>>2649629

>> No.2649658

>>2649633
That's entirely up to you. :) But I'm not the one that is arrogant about my beliefs.

>> No.2649665

>>2649649
Well, then ask away. What exactly would you like to know about what exactly?

>> No.2649666

>>2649658

WHAT ARE YOUR FUCKING BELIEFS?! CAN YOU SAY SOMETHING MORE THAN THESE TERSE ONE-LINERS OR IS THAT THE SUMMATION OF WHAT YOU BELIEVE?

>> No.2649669

>>2649665

Well, it seemed like we were getting somewhere when you started with this

>>2649583

>> No.2649670

>>2649658

You are the one who is consistently unable to articulate anything concrete. Just like so many other "wise" people.

I get the vibe that you're getting at some kind of transcendental eternal self thingie, but upon honest reflection no such thing can be found. The entertainment of such a concept is due to craving and wishful thinking.

>> No.2649683

>>2649666
My belief is that satan trips are only spawned when a person is raging beyond neccessery :)

Really, I believe we're all morons. Yes, me included. We're morons because we are afraid to look the other way and see what reality has in store for us. Most of all, we're morons because we repeat the same thoughts every day, until the day we die. We're afraid of learning the truth. But who wouldn't be.

>> No.2649690

>>2649683

And you still refuse to say anything specific or informative.

>> No.2649692

>>2649683
>Really, I believe we're all morons. Yes, me included.
>>2649583
>Can you truly understand what I'm on about? To be honest, I'm not sure you have the capacity.

Yeah, doesn't compute.

>> No.2649699

>>2649670
It's only the wise that can understand the wise. That's what makes it so charming, doesn't it.

>> No.2649700

This is why I loathe mystics. Saying a lot of words that have no meaning at all. No one cares about you apocryphal, obscurantist nonsense. Seriously, stoner-tier philosophy in here. And yes, I mad.

>> No.2649710

>>2649699
It's not a question of "not understanding". OP still hasn't said anything.

>> No.2649713

>>2649700

Not OP, but stoner here.

We're not all fuckwits.

>> No.2649714

>>2649692
Even though I can understand things that seem to be outside the reach of most, that doesn't mean I'm not a moron.

>> No.2649717

>>2649713
Oh man, a stoner is ashamed of OP. Says he's making stoners look bad. LOL

>> No.2649723

>>2649714
Saying "we're all morons" and yet "you're all much more moronic than I am" doesn't really leave much content to your "wisdom".

Still waiting for you to say something with content.

>> No.2649730

fuckthisshitimouttahere.jpg

>> No.2649746

>>2649717

Cannabis doesn't bring out anything that isn't already inside your head, including retarded modes of thought.

>> No.2649765

>>2649699

That must be why you can't understand what I'm telling you. You're too caught up in this junk you've piled up around yourself.

>> No.2649778

>>2649765
Kindly point out the post where you're "telling us" something.

>> No.2649781

>>2649723
I'll say this: have a nice life. The least I can do is wish you some good luck.

I'm off now, I hope I got at least some of you thinking (even just a little bit). :)

Just a final thought: reason is merely a tiny little fraction of what your mind is capable of. Once you can understand that not all of the world can be reasoned out, you're really onto something.

That and, follow your heart. Possibly the wisest saying of them all.

>> No.2649783

>>2649778

I think you have it mixed up, man.

I am telling Op that he's a fuckwit. I'm not the one trying to deliver arcane wisdom to you. That's him, and he's failing at it.

>> No.2649792

>>2649781
you didnt get good grades in school did you?

>> No.2649802

>>2649781

That is again, contentless.

You have yet to even "point" in the direction of what you are trying to say. You've got to do better than say "There are things that logic can't comprehend, guys!", because that takes us -nowhere- and just makes you look like a thousand other people who say vague and pretty things but have no content whatsoever.

>> No.2649811

>>2649792
(3,7 GPA, majored in computer science) ;)
(i bet you're feeling strange right now)

>> No.2649810 [DELETED] 

>>2649807
Trying to get useful concepts and information by reading your posts is like trying to get nutrition by eating plastic bags.

>> No.2649807 [DELETED] 

>>2649781
Trying to get useful concepts and information by reading your posts is like trying to get nutrition by empty plastic bags.

>> No.2649815

>>2649781
Trying to get useful concepts and information by reading your posts is like trying to get nutrition by eating plastic bags.

>> No.2649822

>>2649811
ah so you're autistic

>> No.2649824

This is a breed of troll that /sci/ doesn't have very good immunity to yet. Claims to have profound wisdom, then refuses to say anything with content.

You've presented even less content that TimeCube. At least you're more coherent. Which means you're trolling, rather than insane by the normal definition.
http://www.timecube.com/

>> No.2649838
File: 12 KB, 300x244, 1268807789248.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2649838

>>2649824

'Twere my suspicion all along, I swears it!

>> No.2649840

>>2649824

These kinds of people are just so amusingly infuriating to argue with, man...

>> No.2649852

Pathetically limited. There are at least a minimum of 22 undiscovered force/particle pairs that need to be understood.

>> No.2649864

>>2649840
>>2649838
>>2649824

hes a mediocre

The Affected Profundity Troll. A mutant subspecies of Sophist Trolls, Affected Profundity Trolls post endless pages of pretentious drivel that is intended to appear wise, but which generally makes little sense (if any). Affected Profundity Trolls enjoy asking themselves questions, sometimes answering them and sometimes leaving them hanging, for they believe this looks intelligent and lends an aura of mystery to their incoherent ramblings. Affected Profundity Trolls aspire to become Sophist Trolls, but lack the intelligence necessary to make the leap.

The Don King Troll. Related to Affected Profundity Trolls, Don King Trolls spout gibberish in the hope that they'll either bore or confuse to death those with whom they disagree. The average Don King Troll is "a pursuitist who gromulates his adversarial computerists with height defining formulations to the disinterestingest adjunct."

I find the best way is to throw strawmen ad hominem, cliches at him

>> No.2649881

>>2649864

Did you get that from some kind of troll encyclopedia?

>> No.2649888

All energy flows according to the whims of the Great Magnet. What a fool I was to defy him.

>> No.2649894

>>2649881

More likely that we have among us the most salty of troll aficionados.

>> No.2649901

>>2649881
>>2649894
It's from an ancient list of troll classifications. I've seen it all over the web; no idea where it originated.

>> No.2649907

>>2649781
You know who follows their hearts? Dudes that bludgeon their wives to death with hammers after they found out they were cheating on them.

glib shithead

>> No.2649927
File: 65 KB, 181x172, 1295216681615.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2649927

>>2649781
OP, I've read every single post and I cant beleive people dont get what you're trying to convey.

Would you like we have telepathic sex nao? :)

>> No.2649932

>>2649927
Please, share your insights.

>> No.2649934

>>2649907
Thats a very valid thought, you know.

>> No.2649946

>>2649927
> Would you like we have telepathic sex nao? :)
Any day of the week, luv ;)

>> No.2649960
File: 16 KB, 320x240, 39555faa01316e98d53bcdb40b062cbbcaafb4e8[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2649960

>>2649946

>> No.2649967

>>2649932
You know, whatever mang. We are all too distracted by cilmbing stairs, running on threadmills, noise, neurosis, obligation, that we forget we are alive and breathing, free as we were when we were kids. Like, this is the only time you live your life, you know.

>> No.2649984

>>2649967
I wish I could hate you to death.

>> No.2649990
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2649990

>>2649984

>> No.2649993

Yeah, man, I just got it.

We're all like, just doing stuff like sheep, so we can't see the great being-truth of the metacosmos.

>> No.2650005

>>2649984
Whats the purpose of it? There's nothing worng with what I said, nor I had set myself to oppose someone.

>> No.2650008

>>2649993
Its not your inability to see but rather the inability to feel. There is no time for questions if you can regress to the state of the zen mind.

>> No.2650014

>science
>oldest explanatory engines

Science in its modern incarnation is actually pretty new, which is why it does so well.

>> No.2650016

>>2650008

I see not with my eyes or knowmy feelings, I commune directly with the All, or rather, with myself, and with you, we children of the Indestructible Mind.

>> No.2650017
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2650017

>>2649265

>> No.2650028
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2650028

>>2650017
I don't think that was trolling

>> No.2650045

>>2649993
No, but you're trying to hard to win in an argument that doesnt require you to do so, in order to make yourself feel better about youself and satisfy your ego (for whatever reason it is) instead of doing something more constructive with your time.

>> No.2650057

>>2650045

You might not believe me, but I'm not Op and I was being sarcastic.

>> No.2650061

Learn to Critique of Pure Reason and Will to Power.

Anyone educated even somewhat is philosophy know that we miss a great deal of "the real world"

Taking drugs will not alter what can be perceive it will just scramble it. OP is an idiot who is right in a sense.

>> No.2650106

>>2650057
I know you werent OP, and I thought you were trying to make a point with your sarcasm.