/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.2643924]

It's not technically science but for any /sci/bros that played Mass Effect 2 did you save the reaper base or blow it up? I'm asking because debates on /v/ usually boil down to ethics or some shit and I know that you're a pretty calculating bunch so i'd like to hear your views on it.

[Anonymous No.2643949]

Destroyed it. From experience, extended contact with Reaper technology ended in indoctrination 100% of the time.

[Anonymous No.2643954]

This thread is now about how we can build the Normandy.

I suppose the biggest question is the propulsion in vacuum.

Anyone got ideas on that?

I propose we try to build a basic structure for a nuclear fusion reactor with 4 or more possibilities of output.

[Anonymous No.2643959]

Glorious game is glorious.

[Anonymous No.2643969]

>>2643924
>Giving a facility full of extremely advanced technology to a group that can't run anything harder than an egg and spoon race.

Yeah, no.

[Anonymous No.2643975]

>>2643954
ion engines.

Power from nuclear fission, hopefully. Fusion'd be great, but I am trying not to be too cocky here.

Materials for the hull are a much bigger obstacle, IMO.

[Implying No.2643987]

>>2643954
>I suppose the biggest question is the propulsion in vacuum.

No, the biggest question is the FTL travel.

[Anonymous No.2643994]

>>2643975

I'm more of a fan of MPD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetoplasmadynamic_thruster

This baby can go FTL if we get rid of the instabilities (Velikhov, scale inadequacies, etc.).

However, you can't very well make turns with it, MPD can only go for a straight line.

I propose rotating Ion engines for maneuvers and MPD for galactic travels.

Now we need a source of energy for this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_machine

We can do this /sci/.

[Anonymous No.2644068]

>>2643994
>MPD
>This baby can go FTL

so squirting out plasma somehow negates special relativity

no i didn't think so

[Anonymous No.2644083]

>>2644068

Reality negates special relativity.

It CAN go FTL. Of course we have yet to find out how exactly. Out of all the technologies we have, it's the only one with the raw potential.

[Anonymous No.2644138]

We need to figure out something to keep us from hitting anything or FTL will blow us up.

[Anonymous No.2644129]

>>2644083
so after decades of particle physicists putting many times a particles mass in energy into said particle and not having it reach the speed of light
instead finding that the speed increase fitted special relativity perfectly along with every other test carried out

but you can conclusively state that it's wrong just because

this is a science board
special relativity has a mountain of evidence
you have your opinion
try again

[Anonymous No.2644147]

>>2644083
>It CAN go FTL

[citation needed]
It is physically impossible for matter to go at or above the speed of light.

[Anonymous No.2644156]

>>2644147
>>2644129

As a scientist, I am saddened to see such dogmatism.

Nothing is set in stone guys.
Nothing.

[Anonymous No.2644165]

I saved it.

Why destroy a hunk of unbelievably advanced technology that could benefit all the species of the alliance for eternity?

[Anonymous No.2644166]

Saved it obviously.
Cerberus maybe incompetent but they seem to be the only group actually doing anything about the reapers.
Liara is retarded and useless
The geth sat idly by whilst soverign was assaulting the citadel and the only help they gave you against the collectors was a sniper rifle.
The quarians could put it to good use if they stopped trying to wipe out the geth
The council doesn't believe you.
Anderson may believe you but the alliance is in cahoots with the reapers as heavily implied on kasumis loyalty mission.
The krogan are too busy holding elections to do anything with it
The rachni are in hiding

[Anonymous No.2644178]

>>2644147
It's impossible (according to relativity only) to go at c, going faster is allowable

[Anonymous No.2644194]

>>2644156

If I can see a credible source detailing how exactly it can achieve FTL speeds without needing an infinite amount of energy, then I'll happily dispel my cynicism. As it stands, GR is a sound theory, and you have no evidence to back up your claims. Not even a Wiki article.

[Anonymous No.2644197]

>>2644156
if you're the same guy you're not i scientist
and i did not say set in stone
i said relativity had evidence
he had his opinion

and the fact that MPD doesn't equal FTL isn't dogmatic it's physics
a well studies electric rocket engine doesn't make a star ship

[Anonymous No.2644207]

>>2644178

How do you propose one goes faster than c without actually going at c at some point in time?

[Anonymous No.2644202]

>>2644166

never got the dlc what implies the alliance is with the reapers?

[Anonymous No.2644222]

>>2644178
Kind of the way it's impossible to reach 0°K but it's possible to go BELOW it?
Interesting.

[Anonymous No.2644224]

>>2644178
if you go faster you get an imaginary result
that's not physical

[Anonymous No.2644233]

>>2644207
quantum jump

[Anonymous No.2644236]

>>2644194

You've said it yourself, it's a theory.
That means that's it's not reality. It strives for realism, indeed, but it's not the ultimate model.

I don't have a way to bypass the speed of light (else I'd be busy actually building a ship), but I'm looking, as many other colleagues do.

The infinite energy thingy is indeeed a problem, and this is the crux of the problem, nothing has the raw efficiency to bypass C as of now.

MPD is our best shot though. It can produce unlimited (as of 2011) thermal energy - we don't know how, yet -, and this could be converted into kinetic energy. A long shot.

Can be done though. Many things were previously thought impossible.

>>2644197

Nice of you to say I'm not a scientist when you can't even write properly.

[Anonymous No.2644239]

>>2644222
there isn't anything below 0k that
it doesn't mean anything to have less than a zero magnitude motion

[Anonymous No.2644248]

>>2644165

> Why destroy a hunk of unbelievably advanced technology

But remember that the reason the reapers can kill everything so easily is because they set up a pre-determined way on how we will acquire tech.

> that could benefit all the species of the alliance for eternity?

Tim wouldn't share that tech with anyone, and only use it to advance human interests. While I agree with Tim's ideology, humanity first without being a racist asshole, they can't keep shit under control. Remember all those experiments in ME1 that went to hell on all those planets? Tim's making.


Anyway, I blew it up because I chose the last survivor background. Can he be a dick, can I be an ever bigger one.

[Anonymous No.2644258]

>>2644239
I know. Yet they do it anyway.

[Anonymous No.2644286]

>>2644202
Her lover was killed when he found some huge info that could implicate the alliance in something, later on we see his memories and the 1st picture is of a reaper.

>>2644207

Have an initial velocity higher than c, tachyons are theorised to go faster the more energy they lose.

[Anonymous No.2644289]

>>2644236
>It can produce unlimited thermal energy
congratulations you've just broken every law of physics since they're all based on conservation
infinite energy

oh well i guess we better start from scratch

you know, i'm surprised that didn't make the news or even new scientist or nature

oh i see whats wrong, you're an idiot. and definitely not a scientist.

and yeah oh i miss typed on an image board
i'd rather miss a few letters or just mash the keys than write the kind of crap you have

and being a scientist in the works at a good university i've seen Einsteins notes and he can't spell and his handwriting is awful

i guess history will remember him a greater fool than you then

[Anonymous No.2644292]

>>2644258
again you're talking crap
find me a citation of negative kelvins or shut up

[Anonymous No.2644308]

>>2644292
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_temperature

[Anonymous No.2644329]

>>2644308
> a system with a truly negative temperature is not colder than absolute zero; in fact, temperatures colder than absolute zero are impossible by definition.
>impossible by definition
>impossible

[Anonymous No.2644323]

>>2644233

I love how people just use "quantum" as a prefix to anything to make it seem like an actual thing.

[Anonymous No.2644328]

>>2644289

Broken every law of physics?

Do elaborate.

Also, I said "as of 2011", meaning that we didn't get to a limit yet. I'm hoping for that limit to be stratospheric, something we can work with.

http://www.physorg.com/news11538.html

They still neither found a certain cause nor a limit to it.

I hope they can get it to 10^10 or even 10^12.

And I remember Einstein being pretty good at writing. He capitalized, at least.

You're just a mad freshman. I'm an established phycisist, so I couldn't give a shit about your jelliness.

[Anonymous No.2644333]

>>2644323

Quantum food is pretty good you know?

[Anonymous No.2644341]

>>2644308

>a system with a truly negative temperature is not colder than absolute zero; in fact, temperatures colder than absolute zero are impossible by definition. Rather, a system with a truly negative Kelvin temperature is hotter than any system with a positive temperature (in the sense that if a negative-temperature system and a positive-temperature system come in contact, heat will flow from the negative- to the positive-temperature system).

> in fact, temperatures colder than absolute zero are impossible by definition.

[Anonymous No.2644349]

>>2644328
an 'unlimited' device is very different to one which produces infinite energy
the energy still comes from somewhere and is thus not infinite

[Anonymous No.2644368]

>>2644349

Indeed, it comes from somewhere.
But it's still unlimited, because no one at Sandia found a limit yet.

Seriously, are all students that pessimistic about science?

My students were a lot more enthusiastic when I talked about new discoveries and such.

[Anonymous No.2644372]

>>2644292
http://www.phys.ncku.edu.tw/mirrors/physicsfaq/ParticleAndNuclear/neg_temperature.html

http://www.ph.bham.ac.uk/schools/temperature.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_zero#Negative_temperatures

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20827893.500-how-to-create-temperatures-below-absolute-zero.ht
ml

inb4"yeah, but..."

[Anonymous No.2644398]

>>2644323
Don't tell me you wouldn't want it.

[Anonymous No.2644408]

>>2644372
>>2644368
well ill be damned about the negative temp thing

but MPD still doesn't produce infinite thermal energy
that doesn't mean its limited though
and under special relativity unlimited isn't enough its not infinite
but you still have no basis for saying that special relativity is nonsense

[Anonymous No.2644428]

>>2644408

When did Physics turn into a religion?

Holy shit dude. I don't need permission from anyone to go against an almost century-old, fragile theory.

I'm not going to sit on my ass pretending it's impossible. I might fail, so what?

All current models have enough holes in them to make it reasonable to see FTL as a possibility.

Overzealous students, even on my /sci/.

[Anonymous No.2644436]

I didn't blew it up for a few reasons:

Such advanced technology would give mankind an edge when fighting the reapers.

Sure it was built with a horrific intention but it falls over the same situation the allies were in WW II when they gathered the data from the Nazi and the Imperial Japan experiments, the damage is done we might as well get all the things we can learn from it else would be wasting both the effort of the research and wouldn't even give a meaning to the lives of the people lost during the experiments.

I really felt heartbroken for not blowing up the station, I would turn it into pieces in a heartbeat if the collectors were the only threat, but the reapers still there and we will need everything we can use to help us defeat them, so I had to put my values and morals aside, I left something terrible still exist so we could harvest its potential.

It wasn't about doing the good thing, it is about doing what it is the right choice, leaving your own beliefs aside and making the choice that can increase the our odds of survival.

I made a full paragon Shepperd with little renegade points, I just hope the choice of leaving the station intact and handing it over to Cerberus won't come back at me and bite my ass.

[Anonymous No.2644444]

>>2644408
>well ill be damned about the negative temp thing
Don't worry, I thought my physics teacher was trolling too when he told me about it.

Man, can't believe he's been dead for over ten years. It always seems it's the best teachers that die first.

[Anonymous No.2644454]

>>2644444
physics-teacher quints?

[Anonymous No.2644461]

>>2644428
you're original quote was:
>Reality negates special relativity.
in science you don't get to make a broad statement like that with no reason or evidence

its the very opposite of religion
i will change my position if its proven with evidence
but if its not proven and has no evidence its worthless

and stop with the student crap right you want people to think you're a scientist, you and half the people an here
its fucking annoying and it gives no more weight to you're view by talking down

[Anonymous No.2644471]

>>2644461

Pause for a minute and think.

What is relativity ?
A model.

Why do we change models?
Because reality invalidates them.

Therefore, reality invalidates special relativity. We have yet to find out how, though.

Unless you think Einstein had it all right from the beginning, which is not very probable.

Doesn't anyone say this in introductory lectures anymore?

Finding another model is the whole point of theoretical physics, not praying in front of a dead physicist's grave.

[Anonymous No.2644499]

it would definitely be to an advantage to save the reaper base
you know there are more and that they'll eventually come
plus this information may show their weak spots

but a friend of mine said it may have been predicted as a possible outcome by the reapers
and this technology may also steer our technological advancement the way the reapers want

so the best way is to save the base, build weapons and strategies to kill the reapers but leave them a secret

pic related
i'm in love with Liara

[Anonymous No.2644514]

>>2644471
hmmmm...
fine but i still disagree on the unlimited energy point
and MPD, i don't think anything that simple could provide FTL

again nobody can know if there is a way to travel FTL until/if one is found
(or maybe if the ultimate theory is found but i'm not holding my breath)
i still take the stance that in all likelihood simply suppling more and more energy will not achieve FTL as special relativity predicts
but then again who knows what could happen when the sorts of velocities and spatial contractions infringe on quantized space-time

it's a strange thing on sci to have someone make a bold statement like relativity is wrong and then make some sense by the end

[Anonymous No.2644531]

>>2644514

You'll be a better scientist if you don't have any idols.

Everything that is proven, I consider likely.

http://www.mhdprospects.com/pdf/MHD_hypersonic_flow_control_for_aerospace_applications_AIAA2009

This paper shows that very basic equipment can achieve extraordinary power.

Refined enough, I believe we can achieve something awesome with this.

[Anonymous No.2644534]

>>2643924
Kept the base. I'd imagine that if TIM wanted to use it for some ulterior motive, we'd get the opportunity to fuck his shit up.

[Anonymous No.2644558]

I thought the consensus was that while traveling at a velocity at or above c was impossible, you could theoretically manipulate gravity to distort spacetime and get somewhere by taking a "shorter" path.

[Anonymous No.2644563]

>>2644558

Yeah, but it's far easier for me to find a FTL mode of propulsion than bend the fabric of the universe to my every desire.

The former is pretty damn hardcore. As for the latter, well, I'm going to need some serious brainpower to pull this off.

[Anonymous No.2644575]

>>2644531
looks like an interesting read i admit i probably wouldn't read it if it stopped at that diagram but it went on to spaceplanes

and i do idolize Feynman not for his work but for his bongos, his van and his charisma;
"Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it."
-- Richard P. Feynman

the first time i heard that i new only one man could say that

and who could forget the swiss astronomer
"Spherical bastards"
- Fritz Zwicky

so what field(s) do you work in or have worked in if you don't mind my asking

[Anonymous No.2644580]

>>2644563

how do you propose sidestepping the infinite mass gain that goes along with acceleration near light speed?

[Anonymous No.2644593]

>>2644575

Cold plasma physics, cosmology, string theory, magnetic fields.

I'm just really trying to build a space ship at the moment, I haven't been in an actual laboratory in more than a year now.

[Anonymous No.2644628]

>>2644580

The game is called "Mass Effect", where a new element can somehow reduce mass of an object.

Sadly enough, a game designer's idea is as good as my guesses.

I believe that if we get close enough to C, we can probably "sink" a bit in space time and decrease relatively the mass of the ship.

Sakharov had some ideas on this, also said that time, and other dimensions could flow inversely if we messed enough with speed.

As Nietzsche said, good ideas come with walking.

When I'll get a prototype running and capable of reaching these speeds, or even just producing enough energy to attain these speeds, anomalies will inevitably pop up and I might get an eurêka moment with those.

There are thousands of theories on how to sidestep the mass gain, but I need experimenting to go along a more likely pathway.

[снайпер No.2644665]

This thread is full of wtfamireading.jpg

Faster than light travel is, as far as we have observed, physically impossible.

Maybe someone will find a way to travel faster than light without traveling faster than light [ala the alcubierre warp drive]. I want it to happen, but I am not going to go around telling people it WILL happen.

For the purposes of science and reality, it's unproven science fiction, not science fact like the OP wants to believe. Sorry but science doesn't work that way. [Also, your MPD cannot reach FTL, sorry. It's just shooting plasma, no different then a billion other reaction-drives]

You also clearly do not understand what a theory is. Gravity is "just" a theory. Are you going to start disbelieving in gravity?

>I don't need permission from anyone to go against an almost century-old, fragile theory.
General and special relativity are not "fragile theories". You don't need permission to go up against them, but you do need to realize that everyone is going to laugh at you because your crackpot ideas of faster than light travel are unobserved, cannot be recreated in any form, and outright contradicted by physical processes within the universe as we have seen them.

Sorry bro, but all you've got is a wish and a prayer and that frankly is not good enough for Science.

[Anonymous No.2644675]

>>2644563
>FTL mode of propulsion

Sometimes I hate teenagers.

[Anonymous No.2646000]

Hi guys,

there must be a solution that is simple yet beautiful. I guess.

pictue related

[EK !EKFQOBUFnQ No.2646014]

>>2646000
cuntpasted
spelling errors remaining intact.

[Anonymous No.2646026]

> Destroyed it. From experience, extended contact with Reaper technology ended in indoctrination 100% of the time.

Untrue. The citadels, the relays and all associated tech is "reaper tech". EDI was made using actual pieces of Sovereign's corpse. The Thanix gun inside the SR2 is reverse engineered reaper tech.

The only things that indoctrinate are Reapers themselves and the Dragon's Teeth artefacts. Although it is not impossible for an indoctrination signal to be present at the collector base, it would be very strange since they never expect anybody to get to it and the only inhabitants are already their slave race (the keepers don't require an indoctrination signal on the citadel, for example).

Even if so, this is a relatively weak argument. Cerberus took no measures to protect their scientists on the Derelict Reaper, because they are wandering around it with no protective gear (i.e. noise canceling headphones, vacuum hardsuits, etc). Even if you assume that none of this stuff would protect you from it, Mass Effect has extensive telepresense technology and advanced humanoid robotics, so that the scientists examining the ship can simply never enter it, and use remote-piloted robots to do the actual labor on the base.

The reason Cerberus didn't take measures to counter indoctrination was because they didn't think it would happen because the Reaper was braindead.

[Anonymous No.2646041]

From a metagaming perspective, keeping/destroying the base won't make a difference because Bioware won't screw over Renegades or Paragons.

[Anonymous No.2646051]

>>2646041
It would be hilarious if they did, or if they made it so the best solution was a neutral one in the grand scheme of things, like allowing the council to die but destroying the reaper base.

[Anonymous No.2646096]

>mfw people are holding general relativity to a god like status when it isnt even compatible with quantum mechanics, probably being the single greatest flaw in the human understanding of physics

[Anonymous No.2646859]

>>2644675

why mad?