/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.2639312]

Good evening various browsers of /sci/. Im back with the whole "What would it take to combine existing human dna and animal dna" thread. Last time we got a bit off topic, but that's ok. SO, for a quick recap, I would like advice on the following.
1. Where would be a good place to start? (What would be good areas to study, any certain books that would help, ect.)
2. What kind of equipment would I be needing?
3. Any advice that would help me.
Remember, I dont want to deal with the whole chimera fetus thing. I want to change existing dna.
Picture, unrelated.

[Anonymous No.2639330]

1. Genetics of course, books.... ehhhh more like learn the human genome
2. Microscopes, DNA sources, some type of administrative tool
3. not advice but sorry for derailing other thread with the transhumanism philosophy part lol

[Anonymous No.2639351]

1. Where would be a good place to start? (What would be good areas to study, any certain books that would help, ect.)
when doing genetic engineering you should have a solid base in biology and basic training with lab equipment. I would like to say that a basic bachelors would be a nice place to start, but as always, if you are passionate about it then don't settle for anything less than a PhD.

2. What kind of equipment would I be needing?
phewwww. Off the top of my head, the usual containers (test tubes, microcentrifuge tubes, chromatography apparatus, agar plates, pippetes, etc....), centrifuge, fractional distillation column, several vectors, the genes of interest, nanodrop, nanopore or a facility for sequencing, spectrophotometer, fluorescent microscopy equipment.

3. Any advice that would help me.
acquire money... lots of it.

[Anonymous No.2639399]

>>2639330
>>2639330
Its perfectly alright, I actually figured something like that would come up. And thank you for being the bigger man and apologizing, that shows respect and and a large amount of awesome.
>>2639351
>>2639351
I figured its going to be expensive, anything that can affect the world always is. Do you suppose my local college would let me use some of their equipment?

[Anonymous No.2639459]

>>2639399

unless you are a student who either is taking a class with the professor whose lab you are (hoping) to work at, or you know the professor personally. They mostly don't let you use any of the equipment even if you are in the college but in a different department. Inter-dept politics is mostly just a pissing contest...

[Anonymous No.2639468]

A genetic bump.

[Anonymous No.2639488]

Get out of here F.U.R.F.A.G.

[Anonymous No.2639499]

>>2639459
Yeah, your probably right. Seeing as Id just be starting off they'd probably slam the door in my face. I don't suppose there's anyway to get knock offs on some of this equipment?

[Anonymous No.2639511]

is this the furry thread? :3

[Anonymous No.2639507]

>>2639488
Saw that coming from a mile away.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.2639515]

>>2639511

Unlike /b/, all the furry threads we have here are straight.

Vacate the premises.

[Anonymous No.2639524]

>>2639515
lies

[Anonymous No.2639527]

ETHICS PLEASE
LET'S NOT MESS TAMPER WITH NATURE TO THAT LEVEL.

pollution is one thing, but genetic alteration of sentient beings is horrific.

stop stepping into the realm of god.

[Anonymous No.2639536]

srsly, does the combined furry porn collection of everyone on /sci/ who isn't me just consist of that one picture of a cheetah sitting on a bar?

[Anonymous No.2639532]

>>2639511
>>2639515
Wait, no, stop that! There is no need for this furry please.

[None !Anoon./Lks No.2639544]

>>2639532
Just hide the posts and ignore them.

[Anonymous No.2639548]

>>2639536
It's a joke-meme. A few people take it seriously.

[Anonymous No.2639550]

>>2639499
>>2639499

Yest yo can get cheaper equipment. I was actually going to suggest just that. A good solution is to go to several of these labs and ask them if they are upgrading their equipment. In some cases you might get lucky. If they are you can ask them to sell you the old stuff, and trust me its CHEAP. Also, sometimes, in some schools, they actually keep all the old and useless shit outside the lab for people to scavenge through. I actually got a field microscope with a bino camera and a functional generator which are worth over $1500 in the market (and took me less than $50) to fix. Be creative OP.

[Anonymous No.2639556]

>>2639527
Damnit, now you have to bring religion into this on top of furry? Listen, if this almighty being of your doesn't want it happening he"ll kill me. Fair deal, until then I'll keep working on it.
>>2639536
Would you kindly stop posting furry in my thread?

[Anonymous No.2639560]

>>2639556
>Would you kindly stop posting furry in my thread?
nothx

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.2639564]

>>2639560

No but seriously now, stop it.

[Anonymous No.2639569]

>>2639564
nah

[Anonymous No.2639571]

>>2639560
Post more cox the fox plz

[Anonymous No.2639573]

>>2639550
>>2639550
They actually do that? I always thought they destroyed their old equipment so it didn't go for cheap.

[None !Anoon./Lks No.2639574]

>>2639556
>>2639564
Just.
Fucking.
Ignore.
Them.

Jesus christ people.

[Anonymous No.2639570]

>>2639511
>>2639515
>>2639524
>>2639536
>>2639560

[Anonymous No.2639578]

blue background is supposed to be work safe...

[Anonymous No.2639581]

k ^^

[Anonymous No.2639579]

>>2639578
Hi, you must be new here.
Now gtfo.

[Anonymous No.2639582]

[Anonymous No.2639583]

>>2639574
Yeah, your right. I just thought I'd try and be a gentlemen about it.

[Anonymous No.2639592]

>>2639583
>gentlemen
>4chan

[None !Anoon./Lks No.2639591]

>>2639583
Furries are insufferable bastards, there's no point reasoning with them.

Use http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/33916 and hide their posts.

[Anonymous No.2639596]

>>2639573
>>2639573

yes they do. You just have to be patient and quick to call dibs. No they don't destroy old equipment. The professors who manage the labs have budgets too you know and they would rather see the stuff be used than be wasted, they would rather give the equipment to others or just sell it. But usually they just post it in an online directory and the labs trade stuff or call dibs...

[Max Planck No.2639598]

just let it 404 guys...

[Anonymous No.2639604]

Q: Is it even possible to change existing DNA?

From what i learnt a few years ago, the only way to change your body would be if youre changing the DNA of something that is constantly regrowing.

You could (in theory) grow claws by "editing" cells in your cuticle(?)

If youre looking at furry (tails and ears) then from a "can i grow them from me" perspective, no.

However theories may have changed since i last bothered to look into it.

The other option is looking into how skin grafts and other transplants work. (something for OP's Q3) If you cant grow it fromyour self, could you vat grow it and attach it? this may require modification of your DNA not to reject the "surplus" bodypart (my knowledge ends here)

As for where to start, take a Biology refresher if your in uni (or Biology foundation, whatever they call it in your country)

Then ask about genetic engineering and medical transplants to your advisor, or head of department, they will be able to guide you.

I do advise you dont say "i want to know how to grow animal parts" or anything of the like, makes to look a little strange (and might be against your advisors/HoD's ethics)

For equipment, you would need a good lab setup, one way to do this is either though the uni, or have a room in your house converted to a lab, find out where your uni gets their materials from and register with them.

oh and before i forget, look into body modification and plastic surgery, alot of medical knowledge on how to modify the current body is there, a portion of the knowledge they have to share might come in handy. (mostly the guy who grew horns, its an example of how we can grow various parts, its just "can we get them functional/grow muscle mass" which would require genetic modification.

p.s: im old, what i know may be different, but most of it still carries some weight.

[Anonymous No.2639607]

>>2639579
>>2639579

actually at my lab right now faggot, not in moms basement.

[Anonymous No.2639613]

>>2639591
Perfect, thank you.
>>2639596
Cool, I'll see whats going on with the local facilities.
>>2639598
Ahh, but it takes forever for a thread to 404 on /sci/.

[Anonymous No.2639628]

now hold on

your posts lead me to believe that you are genuinely going to attempt to splice adult human DNA with animal DNA in the hopes of creating a hybrid of some type

but no one here sees fit to mention that if you don't know what you're going to need to perform such a (so far impossible) splice, that you won't be able to ever successfully do it? I'm going to go ahead and say that if you don't know the steps or tools involved, then you don't know what you're doing.


Although I definitely suggest you go to a college chemistry department and tell them you want to borrow their equipment so you can research splicing animal and DNA. Put it on youtube.

but if that fails to deter you and you really want to do this, then keep this in mind: No one knows how to do what you want to do. There are no books that can tell you where to head. There are no guides that will show you what to do. This is completely uncharted territory and if you're going to be a part of it, then you're going to be working on your own.

[Anonymous No.2639644]

>>2639628
and spoiler tags don't work here why?

[Anonymous No.2639661]

>>2639604
>>2639604
I never intended for cat tails or the ears to be made. I realized a while ago how much work that would actually require, from from bones to muscle to skin and so on. I understand what you mean on keeping the project to a low profile, it could cause problems if you ask your professor how to combine a human and animal in class. As for a lab I'm thinking about using a garage that I own. I live in the middle of nowhere so I shouldn't have to worry about my work being stumbled upon. Also, wisdom often increases with age. Thank you for the advice.

[Anonymous No.2639658]

>>2639644
Same reason math and eqn tags don't work elsewhere?

I dunno.

[Anonymous No.2639681]

>>2639661
dude you don't need to worry about anyone 'stumbling on your work,' you need to worry about 'sounding like a complete moron'

you keep this shit on a low profile not for intellectual protection, but to protect your own dignity.

[Anonymous No.2639685]

>>2639628
You are right sir. It is my hope to make an enhanced human being through splicing. Ive got grasp on the basics and I will probably take this threads advice and go into schooling for it. I understand I'm stepping into the unknown, but that is what science does.

[Anonymous No.2639680]

>>2639661
What you want is not possible with any modern technology. It would require a much finer understanding of how genetics works than we presently have. Modern genetic engineering on single cells is that we shot gun it with the desired gene and hope that it sticks in a part that it will be transcribed. What you want is so much more ridiculously complicated that it would require significant advances in pretty much all of science. We cannot accurately place genes in a single cell. How would you hope to do it in an adult?

[Anonymous No.2639706]

Just what, exactly, are you trying to make, OP?

[Anonymous No.2639714]

>>2639680
Anything is possible. It just takes trial and error.
>>2639681
Your right, dignity, sanity, morality, I could lose everything. My name and reputation could be utterly destroyed. But you have to risk everything to gain something.

[Anonymous No.2639718]

>>2639685
now wait I'm not done here, I want to make sure you understand something here

there is no such thing as having a grasp on the basics in this field of study. It's kind of like saying "Well I can add double digit numbers in my head, so I should be able to learn about charting paths in a hyperdrive." You're using information we only partially understand today to assume you could understand information that currently does not exist. Do you think you can ever see success from your work in your own lifetime?

Sure, go into school for this if you can pull it off- because it will be the hardest thing you will ever do just to get IN. And I don't mean that in a "If you truly believe in yourself and work really hard" sort of way, I mean "this education will chew you up and digest you without spitting you out because you are hopeful and naive."

An education in genetics will be great for some other job. But I say this without a trace of trolling or hate: what you hope to accomplish will never happen in your lifetime, and if it does happen it will not be applicable to you.

[Anonymous No.2639729]

>>2639714
no see it literally is not possible at this time. You will not create a hybrid of any type through "trial and error." To think that you could is actually a little insulting.

And this is not a matter of "could" lose dignity/sanity/etc (and your inclusion of 'sanity' in there leads me to believe that you've got a thin grasp of that as is). You WILL lose them. You sound like a child who just watched some science fiction cartoons. "Anything is possible if I believe! I may risk losing 'it all,' but it's just a risk I have to take!" That's what you sound like.

[Anonymous No.2639734]

>>2639706
>>2639706
I'm not trying to "make" anything really. I just want to enhance. If anything I'm leaning towards a human with more potential. The human race is growing, and eventually we'll need more space. So what about the more extreme climates? Low oxygen, extreme heat or cold, and so on. I want to improve more than make.

[Anonymous No.2639750]

>>2639718
what you hope to accomplish will never happen in your lifetime, and if it does happen it will not be applicable to you.

Ive worked in military research and development for 4 years now, what i develop and build will never be applicable to me, some of it will never be available in my lifetime. But what i AM doing is advancing the technology.

OP might not succeed but he might take a another step up the flight of stairs that leads to the goal, he might discover something that helps, or simply uncover a new way of doing something the eliminates errors in the old way.

Its not about "i want to do this now" shit, i want to wear a jetpack, power armor and fire a laser rifle, but it aint gonna happen (besides the jetpack maybe) in my life time.

[Anonymous No.2639759]

>>2639734
see we already handle that shit with simple technology. We don't have people living in frozen wastelands by splicing them with walruses. We give them thick coats, and highly advanced shelters. We have sent men into the vacuum of space not with the aid of biological bubbles, but really tough suits with extreme insulation. The future of the species isn't going to be in the genes of a dog, it will be in the stars.

And we're alot closer to living in the stars than we are to living as a mutant.

[Anonymous No.2639774]

>>2639750
but the difference between you and op is that you are aware of your role in the field. Op is taking lines straight out of a bad science fiction. He is painfully naive.

[Anonymous No.2639776]

>>2639718
And I appreciate your sincerity. But how do you know? Have you tried? Until someone actually tries for this we wont actually know what we can accomplish.
>>2639729
On the sanity note I meant what other people view my sanity as. Such as saying, this man is clearly insane for even attempting such experiments. I'm quite sane, but I understand what your saying. Ive always been enthusiastic and Im sorry if it bothers you.

[Anonymous No.2639796]

>>2639759
>And we're alot closer to living in the stars than we are to living as a mutant.

Eeeehhhhh...

Biotechnology is advancing more rapidly than you may realize. Not under the guidance of faggots like OP who are teenaged and want to be mad scientists, but the actual, real biotech industry is moving forward fairly rapidly. Meanwhile, there have been very few advancements in space exploration over the last 40 years, because it's a political issue. I'd say that biotech shit will get real before space shit gets real, simply because political debates are such a clusterfuck.

[Anonymous No.2639813]

>>2639759
Now see, your a space man. Looking forward and embracing technology for your every need. What if some don't want to rely on technology?
>>2639774
I never said i was going to finish this in my life time. I just wanted to make it my goal. Nothing wrong with that is there?
>>2639750
I appreciate your support and agree with what your saying. May I ask what area of R&D your in?

[Anonymous No.2639861]

>>2639776
How do I know?

Because people have invested their LIVES into this field of research with VERY LITTLE TO SHOW FOR IT.

And you assume that you can make progress with a college chemistry set and "trial and error." THAT'S how I know.

You won't be viewed as insane for 'attempting these experiments.' You will be viewed as 'stupid.' Tell me, what are some experiments you plan to run? What materials will you use? How will you remove the desired traits from the DNA of animals whose genomes we have not mapped? Do you know what an allele is?

>>2639813
Okay I want everyone to pay attention to this next zinger.

If you want to enhance humans with animal traits but don't want to rely on technology, then I'm afraid /x/ is the only board that can help you. Boom.

Because you're going to have to rely on technology if you want to accomplish any of this.
Also because it's easier to give a coat to a cold man than it is to splice him with foreign DNA.

[Anonymous No.2639898]

>Because people have invested their LIVES into this field of research with VERY LITTLE TO SHOW FOR IT.
Nig, I get what you're saying, and the OP is retarded, but stop belittling the progress in genetics. I just hope you're not one of those people who think that any research into biology is pointless because by the time we get anywhere in it we'll have created singularity ultramind A.I.s who can just instantly figure out everything we could possibly want for us. That's A. underestimating the amount of progress we've made already in biotechnology and B. underestimating how difficult it'll be to figure out how to create an intelligence from scratch in software.

I wouldn't call this "very little":
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=ocular-gene-therapy-treatment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVA6qS8YPgg
http://www.physorg.com/news194539934.html

tl;dr The OP will accomplish nothing because he is very, very stupid.

[Anonymous No.2639913]

>>2639861
An allele is a different form of a gene found on a specific position on a specific chromosome. I'm starting at square one here sir, everything will have to be learned. There is no reason to get mad over this.

[Anonymous No.2639926]

>>2639898
Thanks for your contribution.

[Anonymous No.2639931]

>>2639898
no no, I'm mostly saying that to get it into op's head that he is not going to be the Einstein of the genetic field.

But to be fair, many individuals who go into these fields make very little significant progress. They aren't worthless, but they're still not the Da Vinci of the field. The field makes more progress than most of the individuals, in essence. Large groups of bright minds and those with the occasional spark of inspiration are the ones who make progress.

[Anonymous No.2639941]

>>2639913
Alright, you got the most basic question I presented correct. This proves that you either have a high school education, or internet access.

Now answer all the other questions and I'll back off.

I post because you are naive and need to understand that before you ever hope to stand a chance of contributing anything of value to this study.

Scientists are not worried about looking insane. Only people who watch too much TV list that as a legitimate concern before they start an experiment.

[Anonymous No.2639946]

>>2639926
he's not exactly standing up for you, bro

[Anonymous No.2639987]

>>2639946
Sarcasm good sir.
>>2639941
I see where your coming from I understand what your saying. There's no use sugarcoating it, what I want to do would take years and years of work, and I'm starting at square one. Its only right for you to say that I'm naive.

[Anonymous No.2640070]

>>2639987
no no no you still don't get it

the naivete puts you at square negative three. Get a real understanding of the tasks before you. You're looking at this as along and tiring road that will be worth it at the end, but there is no road. You have to make the road. You have to make the tools to make the road. Also the road is being built with a map that hasn't been written to go to a country that may not exist and has a very high chance of wanting to kill you if it does exist.

Once again, I point you to one of your bigger obstacles: We're not done exploring the human genome, and that took years to just get it mapped. I don't think there are many animals whose genomes we have mapped to a useful degree in cross-species splicing. Doing such a thing will take many more years.
Or even better: most of the traits you seek to enhance already exist in the human genome. They're just turned off, or limited by other genes. We don't need enhanced genes from other animals, we just need to understand the human genome better. And that is yet another example showing that you are a silly silly person who can't be much older than 16.

[Anonymous No.2640114]

>>2639931
Oh, ok. I see what you were saying there.

[Anonymous No.2640138]

>>2639987
>>2640070
He isn't starting at square one, he's starting at the square root of negative one because that entire plan is completely imaginary. :3c

[Anonymous No.2640144]

>>2640070
20 actually, and I enjoyed the metaphor.

[Anonymous No.2640155]

Remember, genes are NOT blueprints. This means you can't, for example, insert "the genes for an elephant's trunk" into a giraffe and get a giraffe with a trunk. There -are- no genes for trunks. What you CAN do with genes is chemistry, since DNA codes for chemicals.

[Anonymous No.2640156]

>>2640138
So no squares, just i?

[Anonymous No.2640173]

>>2640155
I understood that much, but are you saying that with the right chemicals you can make other types of changes?

[Anonymous No.2640175]

>>2640155
>This means you can't, for example, insert "the genes for an elephant's trunk" into a giraffe and get a giraffe with a trunk.

Yeah. You'd get a non-viable quasi-giraffe fetus.

[Anonymous No.2640210]

>>2640173
Holy FUCK you are so unfit for this shit.

You can effectively already put whatever genetic sequence you want into a cell, put animal genes in with human genes, etc... The hard part is figuring out what genes to put where and in what way. When I say hard I don't mean just a little bit difficult, I mean batshit stupid ridiculous. Some good progress has been made in doing that with bacteria, and some slight progress has been made with crops and farm animals - all by people who are more intelligent than you are who have PhDs and such.

You're effectively saying "I'm going to make it my life's goal to learn how to create magnetic fields with electricity, little may be known about it but I'm sure I'll be able to build faster than light flying cars before the end of my lifetime."

That's exactly how you sound.

Take Biology 101, young man.

[Anonymous No.2640213]

>>2640173
well, you can make a bacteria that creates insulin. Or a bacteria that is more resistant to heat through an increase in some other chemical.

You mess with a person's genes and you might get lucky by creating a tumor.

In short, you can create changes with chemicals. These changes will probably not do what you expect or want them to do though.

[Anonymous No.2640220]

>>2640210
>You're effectively saying "I'm going to make it my life's goal to learn how to create magnetic fields with electricity, little may be known about it but I'm sure I'll be able to build faster than light flying cars before the end of my lifetime."

>That's exactly how you sound.

nailed it.

[Anonymous No.2640243]

>>2640210
Hmm.. Your anger is showing, but thank you for the info.
>>2640213
Fantastic, thanks for your help.

Well then everyone that wraps up another fun thread! Thanks goes out to all who put in helpful information and to all of you who helped me pick out some of the flaws. It's 1 in the morning here and I have work at 8 so Id like to bid you all goodnight! I will have another thread like this sometime soon and I hope to get just as many responses!

[Anonymous No.2640251]

>>2640243
dude 80% of the people in here were trying to discourage you from continuing with this shit

there's no picking flaws out of a plan that is one big flaw.

how can you be so obtuse?

[Anonymous No.2640260]

Do do even half of what you're proposing would require a Ph.D. in Biology or Genetics. Srs dude, you're asking the biology equivalent of, "I want to make a particle accelerator in my garage. What book should I buy off Amazon?"