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/sci/ - Science & Math

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2636337 No.2636337 [Reply] [Original]

I'll just leave this here...

>> No.2636378

>>2636337
Correction:
>Isn't

>> No.2636381

Atheism != Moral Relativism.

You can be an atheist and a moral relativist, but they're not the same thing.

/thread.

>> No.2636384

lrn2dictionary

>> No.2636387

>>2636381
this
I'm an atheist that uses deontology as a moral guide.

>> No.2636396
File: 47 KB, 512x512, 1273987095075.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2636396

>> No.2636397

Religion:

Believing that you'll go to heaven after you die even if you murder, steal, rape during your own life, as long as you go to church every sunday morning and tell every bad thing you've done to a guy in a dress.

Isn't it wonderful?

>> No.2637564

bump

>> No.2637570

>>2637564
YOU JSUT GOT TROLLED LOLOLOLLLOLLLOLOOOLLOLOLO!!!1!1!!!!1!!

>> No.2637591

http://computer.howstuffworks.com/troll.htm/printable

>> No.2637617
File: 45 KB, 450x289, temp.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2637617

>>2636337

>> No.2637629
File: 48 KB, 1340x774, atheists.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2637629

No, it's not.

>> No.2637648

>>2637629

Yeah because Atheists are knocking on people's doors during dinner trying to convert them....and they are littering businesses with "newsletters" and pamphlets....and they are protesting abortion clinics and killing the doctors....oh wait...that's the religious people. Opps.

>> No.2637653

Hey guys, I just realized something.

atheism vs religion is utterly identical to anonymous vs tripfag

>> No.2637695
File: 110 KB, 407x405, Advice_antitheist.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2637695

>> No.2637704

>>2637695

0/10 find me an atheist who wants to exterminate christians.

>> No.2637709

>>2637704
http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101204010818AApjdgd

>> No.2637710

Atheism: The lack of a belief in a god or gods.
Makes perfect sense.

>> No.2637716

>>2637704
>gets mad at some old /new/ troll meme.
Wow, you are the most easily trolled person ever.

>> No.2637727

Anti-theists ARE better people than theists.
Which is why they DON'T want to exterminate those with opposing viewpoints.

>> No.2637737

>>2637727
That's not correct. Being an anti-theist does not preclude the possibility of also wanting to kill those with opposing viewpoints.

>> No.2638007

>>2637737
Even if they did, they'd still have one less delusion than theists, which still makes them better people.

>> No.2638028

>mods deleted my first religion shit storm thread, I'll make another

>> No.2638032

>>2636387

>deontology

-.-

>mfw

>> No.2638036

>>2637629
Except religion honestly does threaten society.

>> No.2638153

OP why do animals have 'morals' when you believe morals are given to use by god in our souls?

also stop posting the same stuff all over 4chan its getting annoying christfag

>> No.2638230

>>2638036
Yeah thats why the states with the highest homicides also are the most religious right?

>> No.2638252

>>2638230
Uhhh.. Yes?

>> No.2638287

Christianity:

The belief that if you apologise for something, then it must be okay. That includes rape, robbery, murder, torture, pedophilia, tax evasion, racketeering, theft, arson, embezzlement, drug distribution, kidnapping, lying, cheating, etc.

Unfortunately, Christians don't even expect you to apologise to the person you wronged. You can instead apologise to some ultimate moral authority who will simply forgive you regardless of what you did, and regardless of the feelings of the person you did it to. In fact, the only unforgivable act is not to apologise to this ultimate moral authority.

Hitler: Heaven.

Jews: Hell.

This is what you must believe to be a Christian.

>> No.2638298

>>2638287
That is not how it works. One must be genuinely sorry and truly willing to not do such things again. God does not have to unconditionally forgive.

>> No.2638309

>>2638298

Nowhere did I say that merely paying lip service to apology would be sufficient. Let's assume everyone who apologises to god is being sincere, as there is no reason not to, and as we cannot see into the heart of hearts of anyone.

This still leaves Hitler in heaven and the Jews in hell.

>> No.2638320

yeah OP, you are retarted

>> No.2638332

>>2638309
this pernicious lie that Hitler was somehow christian or catholic is oddly false; it is demonstrably false; and yet people like you, whom i would assume prefer evidence over prejudice, seem to espouse this notion quite easily.

the truth of the matter is, God holds all ruler's hearts in His hand, and He can turn them however He wills.

evil deeds will come; but woe to him by whose hand these evil deeds are done

i do not expect to bump into Hitler in heaven. however, i do expect you to burn in hell with a lot of non-messianic non-Jesus believing joos.

>> No.2638335

>>2638309

But you are presuming that Hitler has apologised.

>> No.2638339

>>2638332
Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944 published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc.first edition, 1953
Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:

National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

>> No.2638350

>>2638298
what the fuck are you doing?? you know damn well that you are atheist.

didn't think i'd ever see you trolling here...

>> No.2638355

>>2638332

I suppose if I were to find a quote where Hitler avows his Catholic faith, you could find one that could be interpreted as his not having such faith?

And if you really think god holds all leaders hearts in his hands, then you think he is responsible for both the actions of Hitler in the real world, and whatever faith Hitler had.


My point being that even if atheism in isolation can be shown to be morally insufficient (it is, after all, a morally neutral position that suggests nothing of ethics), it is at least not actively morally abhorrent, as most religiously based ethical systems are.

>> No.2638366

>>2638335

Indeed I am. I am presuming that he apologised on his death bed, as so many historical figures, especially lapsed christians, are presumed to have done.

>> No.2638372

>>2638355
that is correct. God is in control of everything. that is what makes Him God.

however, the way He works is to turn all things to good, for those that love Him and are the called according to His purpose.

how did He turn the holocaust to good?

May 1948: Israel is founded.

i keep trying to tell you people that God is not some kindly old grandfather hoping you don't screw things up. He's an awesome God, and all that entails.

>> No.2638374

>>2638350
I did not say that I was a christian, but I do know how their belief system works.

>> No.2638376

>>2638355
i disagree. having no intrinsic moral code whatsoever is evil in and of itself. you are saying that the eating of a candy bar is the equivalent of raping and killing 40 babies.

that is evil.

>> No.2638382

>>2638374
no, my dear, you do not

>> No.2638384

>>2638372

How can such a god be compatible with any moral accountability?

And how does any of this change the central problem with the ethics of Christianity, which is that you can get away with anything by saying sorry?

>> No.2638392

>>2638384
first of all, you are incorrect in your explanation of forgiveness, and in your assignment of guilt.

christianity is the understanding that God has provided a way for us to be redeemed through His grace, not by apologizing for all of our wrongs done to each other. also, all wrongs done are done to Him.

more in a minute

>> No.2638404

>>2638376

What I am saying is that atheism is not an ethical code, and it is not claiming to be, and it is not attempting to be.

The modern human raised in the developed world, doubtless yourself included, takes more of their ethical system from the secular values of the enlightenment than from any which are directly descended from religion. Atheists use this ad hoc, but far superior, ethical system by itself. Religionists use this code, but contaminate it with excerpts from a bronze age ethical system.

>> No.2638416

>>2638392
God is the arbiter of all moral good; none are good but Him.

all He requires is that you be absolutely perfect in all things, in all ways, and at all times. He gave His laws to show you what that looked like.

you broke them. you broke all of them. we all have. so we all stand condemned before a Holy God, without a defense, and facing an eternal death penalty.

but the good news is that He sent His son, Jesus of Nazareth, called the Christ, to take our place; to take upon Himself the weight of all of our sins. by the shedding of His blood, all of our sins went with Him into death.

however, He requires that you acknowledge His sacrifice for you; He requires that you ask to be a part of His kingdom, and He requires you to know in your heart that Jesus is alive; confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that He is risen from the dead, and you will be saved.

>> No.2638426

>>2638416

This is bunk. He made us wrong, and then commanded us to be right.

And no matter what we do which is evil or good, selfish or selfless, it is all meaningless compared to whether or not we think he had a son.

>> No.2638427

>>2638404
i do not agree. atheists can do nothing but put forward a relative moral code; what may be right for you may not be right for me. if we cannot agree on what exactly is greater than ourselves, and what that thing demands of us, we are incapable of agreeing on all points of any particular moral code.

i do not argue that atheists cannot be good people; many are. i simply want to warn them that being a good person is not enough to save them from Hell. many good people will be in Hell.

many "lowlives" will be in heaven; it is easier to convince someone that they need a savior if they know that they are lost.

>> No.2638438

>>2638426
He made us good; we fell to satan's temptations and brought about the curses you see around you; pain in childbirth; weeds; work; death.

these things are our ancestor's fault, not God's. once Adam and Eve fell from grace, our entire race was doomed, but for God's plan of salvation.

i shudder to think it didn't have to be that way.

>> No.2638456

>atheists think they can get away with anything

...and yet atheists are vastly underrepresented in jail.

8% American general pop. non-believers
<1% American jail pop. non-believers

>> No.2638459

>>2638427

Atheists can put forward a moral code based on reality, based on our conscience. Which is a naturally evolved system for living with other human beings.

>>2638438

It does seem arbitrary, doesn't it?

>> No.2638467

Lol at the retarded christians arguments.

>> No.2638472

>>2638456
what an awesome 14 year old study

Total Known Responses 74731 100.001% (rounding to 3 digits does this)

Unknown/No Answer 18381

wonder if any of those "unknown/no answer" peeps are atheists

lol

>> No.2638479

>>2638459
do you really think that you live the same way a bushman in the kalahari lives? do you think you share an ethical code, or could meet on 100% of the issues?

>> No.2638486
File: 79 KB, 407x405, u-win-Successful-troll.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2638486

No Christian in their right mind would try to prove this picture and its statement.

Yall are getting trolled pretty fierce. If you want to ask a real question and maybe you'll get some answers. Right now, it just sounds like you all just want to hate and talk about how wonderful you are and how much better you are.

>> No.2638489

>>2638472

Do you include unknown/no answers as automatically atheist in any other context?

Like babies, for instance?

>> No.2638492

>>2638459
arbitrary? you mean, you can eat of any tree except for this one, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? because if you eat of this tree you will surely die? and they ate of that tree, and immediately started dying?

it seems pretty lockstep to me; unless you are proposing that God should not have put the tree in the Garden in the first place. in which case i would have to ask you how you designed your universe that you created.

>> No.2638493

>>2638456
+1 interwebs fo' pwnage

>> No.2638498

>>2638489
i actually would put babies in the "saved" category, as their angels see the face of God in heaven. more importantly, the man after God's heart, King David, knew that he would meet with his dead infant son in heaven.

inb4 abortions send babies to Jesus faster

>> No.2638504

>>2638489
also, there's not 8-10% of the population that is foolish enough to know that there is no God, not in America. maybe other countries, but not here.

>> No.2638507

>>2637629
Preaching the truth is not a show of insecurity.

>> No.2638513

George S. Paul, in the Journal of Religion and Society, systematically compared seventeen economically developed nations, and reached the conclusion that 'higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy and abortion.

>> No.2638521

>>2638479

I think that we both have ethical codes, not ones that entirely agree on many issues. On the basic issues, though, virtually every human being agrees.

We don't kill, we don't injure, we don't steal from and we don't lie to people we consider to be kin to some degree. The definition of who gets this treatment differs, and the response to infractions of this innate code differs, but for the most part we have a fairly similar set of moral intuitions.


Besides, meeting on 100% of the issues is not the point. Does any one Christian meet on 100% of the issues with any other? I wouldn't even give good odds on any two randomly selected self-proclaimed Christians agreeing on most of the issues, or even the definition of god.

We all live in a morally subjective world, that some people insist on their own moral code being not only right, but absolutely right by divine decree, is more harmful than helpful. How would you argue with Hitler, who, after all, believed that he was objectively morally correct in his actions?

>> No.2638525

Hypothetically speaking, if Hitler made a sincere apology to God before his death and made no attempt to willingly conduct Evil, he would go to heaven.

Deal with it.

>> No.2638527

>>2638513
gotta love the internet:

Mr. Paul has no advanced degrees in statistical analysis, demography, sociology, or any other -ology. In fact, it appears as though he holds no advanced degrees of any kind. He is, in fact, an artist and freelance paleontologist who has published two books in the area of dinosaur studies that re-imagine how they may have lived and operated on this planet.

>> No.2638532

Nobody said the truth would be designed to make you feel good, or lead to a better society. It's just the truth, nothing more, nothing less.

>> No.2638535

>>2638527
But is correct.

>> No.2638537

>>2638521
my point is, many bushmen absolutely believe that it is ethical and expected to take coups; to cannibalize other tribe's warriors, and to deal quite harshly with women and children.

as an atheist, who's to say who is right between you two?

>> No.2638541

>>2638535
lol he's a total fraud, but he just miraculously happens to be unbiased and correct on a point you agree with

please check your intellectual honesty at the door. thank you for playing.

>> No.2638543

>>2638492

I mean he invented the game, he created the players, and he created them in such a way that he knew what they were going to do in any given situation, and he let them do it.

>>2638498

If this was indeed true, it would be the moral duty of any Christian parent to murder their children before they got a chance to endanger their souls. In the womb, if possible.

If it were me, and I really believed this stuff, I would go to hell with a smile on my face if I knew I was saving my children from that fate.

But then, Christians don't really believe this stuff, then, do they?

>> No.2638544

>>2638535
more lulz:

But wait! There’s more! Here’s s the conclusion of the George H. Gallup International Institute (Gallup has been known to work with numbers on occasion) as stated in a letter from George Gallup to the London Times where Mr. Paul’s study was highlighted by a gullible reporter.

Gregory Paul’s conclusion is based on a flawed analysis according to my research associate, D Michael Lindsay, an expert in the department of sociology at Princeton University. After carefully examining Paul’s international study, Mr. Lindsay maintains that it does not pass scholarly muster.

>> No.2638549

>>2638541
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

>> No.2638553

>>2638544
reference please

>> No.2638556

>>2638543
your first point first: God absolutely knew everything from before the beginning; He did what you might think of as a cost-benefit analysis using His economic standards prior to creation; and knowing absolutely everything and being surprised by nothing, He went forward with His creation.

knowing what He would have to do to save us, He created us, so that we could be with Him, and be like Him, forever

>> No.2638560

But I'm not sure if there's an afterlife, and I know for sure there's no absolute moral authority and that all morality is relative. This means that if I kill someone or make someone suffer, they may well be lost forever. Thus I should prevent the suffering and death of every being that I can.

Those that are sure of an afterlife however, can justify murder because the victim doesn't cease to exist.

In Atheism, you only get one chance. To take that chance away from someone or make their lifes terrible is obviously horrible to anyone with empathy.

>> No.2638562

>>2638544
>>2638541
Absolute nonsense

>> No.2638564

>>2638543
there is a verse in the bible to counter that impulse: do no evil that good may come. God's grace is magnified by the vast amount of sin it covers, but woe to him who increases sin;

do no evil that good may come; killing children in the womb is evil

>> No.2638565

>>2638532
>>2638532
>>2638532
>>2638532

>> No.2638566

>>2638537

I say that the moral code which does the most good and the least bad is the best. And I am open to argument as to which that is, or even as to what that is.

The bushmen would not consider those of the other tribe to be fully worthy of treatment as human beings. This is not true of most modern human beings, who consider everyone on Earth to be worthy of such treatment. This is a definite advance of moral teachings.


How would you deal with the different morals followed by, say, anyone in Biblical times, which would look more at home in Saudi Arabia or North Korea than they would in the developed world? Were they objectively morally correct, or are you?

>> No.2638571

>>2638549
this one is lulzier:

http://www.verumserum.com/?p=25

>> No.2638572
File: 77 KB, 750x600, outOfMyWay.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2638572

Why does this shit still get replies. If you care at all about science or this board stop arguing with trolls about religion. I know I am bumping but at least its truth

>> No.2638574

>>2638564

I know that, I mean to damn myself to ensure the salvation of my children.

Is this not noble?

>> No.2638576

Miller, Kenneth

1999 Finding Darwin’s God: A Scientist’s Search for Common Ground Between God and Evolution. New York: HarperCollins.

National School Safety Center

2005 http://www.nssc1.org/index2.htm..

Neapoletan, Jerome

1997 Cross-National Crime. Westport, CT: Greenwood.

Numbers, Ronald

1992 The Creationists. New York: A. A. Knopf.

Panchaud, Christine, Susheela Singh, Dina Darroch and Jacqueline Darroch

2000 “Sexually Transmitted Diseases Among Adolescents in Developed Countries.” Family Planning Perspectives 32: 24-32.

Paul, Gregory and Earl Cox

1996 Beyond Humanity. Rockland, MA: Charles River Media.

Pearcey, Nancy

2004 Total Truth: Liberating Christianity from its Cultural Captivity. Wheaton, IL: Crossways.

PEW

2002 Global Attitudes Project.

Putman, Robert

2000 Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community. New York: Simon & Schuster.

Reid, T. R.

2001 “Hollow Halls in Europe’s Churches.” Washington Post 5/6: A1, A22.

2004 The United States of Europe. New York: Penguin.

Rosenfeld, Richard

2004 “The Case of the Unsolved Crime Decline.” Scientific American 290 (2): 82-89.

Schonborn, Christoph

2005 “Finding Design in Nature.” New York Times 7/7: A27.

Schroeder, Gerald

1997 The Science of God: The Convergence of Scientific and Biblical Wisdom. NewYork: Broadway.

Scott, Eugenie

1999 “The Creation/Evolution Continuum.” Reports of the National Center for Science Education 19 (4): 16, 17, 21.

Shanks, Niall

2004 God, the Devil and Darwin. Oxford: Oxford University Press.

Singh, Sushella and Jacqueline Darroch

2000 “Adolescent Pregnancy and Childbearing: Levels and Trends in Developed Countries.” Family Planning Perspectives 32: 14-23.

Sommerville, C.

>> No.2638577

>>2638566
i cannot agree with your assessment. as few as seventy years ago two dominant countries of the modern world did not consider anyone not of their race to be fully human; the japanese committed atrocities without blinking an eye, because they were not committed on fellow japanese, and germans slaughtered jews at a frantic rate, as though it were somehow helping their losing war effort.

so no, left to their own devices, men are tribal, and prefer their tribe over others

>> No.2638582

>>2638571
Stark, Rodney and William Bainbridge

1996 Religion, Deviance and Social Control. New York: Routledge.

Stepp, Laura

2004 “An Inspired Strategy.” Washington Post 3/21: D1, D6.

UN Development Programme

2000 Human Development Report 2000. Oxford: Oxford University Press.

2004 Human Development Report 2004. Oxford: Oxford University Press.

WHO

2001 “Suicide Prevention.” http://www.who.int/mental_health/prevention/suicide/ country_reports/en/index.html.

Wise, Donald

1998 “Creationism’s Geologic Time Scale.” American Scientist 86:160-73.

Young, Matt and Taner Edis (eds.)

2004 Why Intelligent Design Fails. Piscataway, NJ: Rutgers University Press.


Abma, Joyce, Gladys Martinez, William Mosher and Brittany Dawson

2004 “Teenagers in the United States: Sexual Activity, Contraceptive Use, and Childbearing, 2002, National Center for Health Statistics.” Vital Health Statistics 23 (24).
Applegate, David

2000 “Anti-evolutionists Open a New Front.” Reports of the National Center for Science Education 20[1-2]: 6-7.
Aral, Sevgi and King Holmes.

1996 “Social and Behavioral Determinants of the Epidemiology of STDs: Industrialized and Developing Countries.” Pp. 39-76 in Sexually Transmitted Diseases. Third Edition. Edited by K. Holmes et al. New York: McGraw-Hill.
Aronson, Raney

2004 “The Jesus Factor.” Frontline, PBS.

Ayala, Francisco et al.

1999 Science and Creationism. Washington DC: National Academy Press.

Bainbridge, William

2004 “Religion and Science.” Futures 36: 1009-23.
Barcley, Gordon and Cynthia Tavares

2003 International Comparisons of Criminal Justice Statistics 2001. http://www.csdp.org/research/hosb1203.pdf..

Barna

2003 “A Biblical Worldview has a Radical Effect on a Person’s Life.” Barna Research Online. http://www.barna.org..

>> No.2638583

>>2638574
you would not necessarily damn yourself by such actions; there is only one unforgiveable sin, and that is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. all other sins can be forgiven; even blasphemy of Jesus Christ Himself can be forgiven.

i don't see in my personal life people killing their unborn children as a favor to the child; most seem to do it out of convenience or fear.

>> No.2638589

>>2638572
you have never personally met the truth

>> No.2638593

>>2638571
>Bad cites
Evidently untrue, and that website is not generating many; now, is it?

>> No.2638595

>>2638577

Well, the human conscience has, like I say, some fairly definite views on how to treat other human beings. And the system we have for who deserves this treatment, which naturally selects only kin and extended kin as worthy, is incredibly plastic and capable of abstraction.

Besides which, Nazi Germany was a backwards blip on the moral progress of Europe, while Imperial Japan was a relic of an earlier time. The general mode, on any level, has been towards one of more peace and less violence.

Look up Steven Pinker, who has an excellent speech on this at this link. http://www.youtube[dot]com/watch?v=ramBFRt1Uzk

>> No.2638597

>>2638566
>How would you deal with the different morals followed by, say, anyone in Biblical times, which would look more at home in Saudi Arabia or North Korea than they would in the developed world? Were they objectively morally correct, or are you?

both. some joos trying their best to follow the Law and sacrifices found righteousness in the eyes of the Lord; i found righteousness in the eyes of the Lord by believing in Jesus Christ, and in Him who sent Jesus to us.

>> No.2638602

>>2638593
i don't know; i googled the guy's name and "debunking" caught my eye, and i lul'd

>> No.2638603

>>2638583

So you agree that murdering unborn children to save their souls is not only a tactic that is likely to work, it is also not likely to result in my damnation so long as I repent before I die?

I have to question how much Christians who believe this stuff really love their children.

>> No.2638607

>>2638597

So then the actual morals you use, or anything you do in life, are fairly irrelevant compared to accepting Jesus?

>> No.2638613

>>2638595
tribes warring with each other has happened for the past six thousand years; hitler just made an assembly line out of it. the joos have faced several determined dictators trying to commit genocide against them, and all have failed. God protects His remnant, and always will.

and that Pinker guy looks like a linguist; not sure how relevant that field is to the cooking and eating of one's enemies.

>> No.2638623

>>2638613

Pinker in that video is talking about how we are better people now than we ever have been, with citations and biblical references. And he's right.

>> No.2638631

>>2638607
yes and no. here's where it gets tricky.

by inviting Jesus into my heart, and asking to be filled with the Holy Spirit, i act, think, and see things as He sees them through me. while full of the Holy Spirit, you cannot sin, because the Holy Spirit cannot sin. not to say that i am always full of the Holy Spirit, nor is it to say that i cannot temporarily assert my fleshly will over His, and sin, because i can and do, and He lets me know i have sinned against Him.

Jesus said it best; the two commandments are to love God with all your heart, mind, and strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself. on these two commandments are all of the Law hung.

however, without God, we simply are unable to do so, all the time, in all circumstances. we need help.

>> No.2638637

>>2638631
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacra_and_Simulation

>> No.2638639

>>2638623
i wish i could watch it. knowing virtually nothing about the man other than his academic credentials, professed atheism, and secular judaism, i would have to say that if he thinks modern joos subscribe to the Law better than the joos of old, then he is completely insane. modern joos don't even have a temple (yet).

and, from a bushido/chivalry point of view, i also have to disagree with that assessment; it is harder to go to war with a four foot piece of sharpened steel in your hand than it is with an F-22 wrapped around you, or worse yet, radar screens.

>> No.2638641

gods are by definition self contradictory
contradictions do not exist
therefore gods do not exist

>> No.2638645

>>2638637
Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life.

Jesus walked out of His grave three days after He was killed. i'm gonna go with Him on this one.

there is a truth. it is Jesus.

>> No.2638648

>>2638641
correct. only one true God exists. all other gods are false.

and yes, i know you meant to include the one true God in your silly little soligism

>> No.2638656

>>2638631

By that reckoning, good morals and good behavior are merely symptoms of accepting Jesus. So you can't really talk about an action being good or bad, except in so far as it indicates whether a person has Jesus or doesn't.

And still, no good act is so good that performing it is better than accepting Jesus, and no bad act can be so bad that performing it is worse than not accepting Jesus.

Hence my saying that everything anyone does in life is irrelevant compared to accepting Jesus. By that reckoning.

>> No.2638658

>>2638641
Contradictions don't make sense to us.
Contradictions are formed by our language.
God does not speak any human languages.

u r retard

>> No.2638660

>>2638645
>Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life.
sounds like a sociopath

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-q8WZ1Ibso&feature=relmfu

>> No.2638673

>>2638639

Well, you are wrong, sir.

He speaks very well on the subject and he backs his words up with citations and references.

And the modern Jews live better than those ancient Jews who lived under the law, the law, most biblical law, is fairly repulsive to most modern people anyway.

And there can be no doubt we make war far less and with far more restraint than we ever have before.

>> No.2638689

Yes, of course the lack of moral authority also means we have complete responsibility for our actions. There is no, for example: "The devil made me do it."

>> No.2638709

>>2638689

THIS

>> No.2638751

>>2638656
that is absolutely correct. christians are by virtue of being saved no better than non-christians; we're not saved by what we do, but by who He is. it is not the quality of the worship that i can perform; it is the divine nature of the God i worship that matters. a hindu can be five thousand percent more "religious" than a saved christian, but for all of his rigor, he is still unsaved. no man comes to the Father but by the Son

>> No.2638762

>>2638673
the hundreds of millions of corpses produced in the last century would belie that comment.

as would the billions of corpses that will be stacked like cordwood in this century.

we are not progessing as a race; we are deteriorating, as is everything around us. knowledge is increasing at a frenzied pace, but it is being used for wickedness. sorry to say, mankind is subject to entropy as is every other physical thing in the universe

>> No.2638770

>>2638689
and you will be held accountable for all of your actions

you should really be more careful of what you wish for

>> No.2638804
File: 15 KB, 300x309, rage.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2638804

>102 posts and 6 image replies. Click reply to view

>> No.2638814

>>2638762

You are dead wrong. Depressingly wrong.

A few hundred million dead from violence in a century might seem like a lot, but consider two things.

First, how high that figure would be if we killed each other at the rate that we did in centuries when the population was far lower. We would have seen two billion dead if it was at the rate hunter-gatherers do it.

Second, how far our capacity to do violence has increased. Orders of magnitude. Accompanied by a corresponding drop in our propensity to do violence. If it were simply an increase in capacity, we would see far more violence. And if there was any increase in propensity, we would see dramatically more violence. The C20th was not far above other centuries (below the C16th, in fact) in terms of violent deaths as a percentage. We have insufficient figures for before a thousand years ago to make such statement about those centuries.


On every physical scale, and on every time scale, we have gotten less violent and more peaceful as a people.

>> No.2638838

>>2638814
you are stating that we are not as good at killing people as we used to be

are you sure you want to hang your hat on that?

>> No.2638844

>>2638814
>On every physical scale, and on every time scale, we have gotten less violent and more peaceful as a people.

oh, wow, you need to get out more often.

>> No.2638853

>>2638844
you need to understand statistics

>> No.2638858

>>2638838

I'm saying we are far, far better at killing people. We just don't want to as much.

>>2638844

Just because bad news tends to stick in our minds and bad news tend to be reported more doesn't mean that the general trend, and the general experience, is not towards more peace and less violence in interpersonal and international affairs.

This is the best time to live.

>> No.2638869

>>2638853
>implying i do not have a degree based on statistics

>> No.2638878

>>2638858
lol you've gone completely Pollyana; maybe an excursion to egypt, or libya, or afghanistan, or iran, or iraq, or north korea, or liberia, or tunesia, or bahrain, or, well, anywhere not an ivory tower, might do you some good

are you going so far as to say mankind will never engage in holocaust number killings ever again?

>> No.2638879

>>2638869
then do yourself a favour and watch pinker

>> No.2638882

Definition of atheism: lack of a belief in a God or gods.

IT IS NOT AN ENTIRE PHILOSOPHY! Simply a rejection of the notion of supreme being(s).

>> No.2638890

>>2638879
>implying Pinker is not solidly residing in an ivory tower

look up "where does Pinker live" and you should get a picture of an ivory tower

as a joo, he's desperately whistling past the graveyard

>> No.2638893

>>2638882
you can't even agree with your own definition, which would fit agnostics much better than atheists.

>> No.2638894

>>2638858
Looks like someone doesn't know about the Iraq War, the Afghanistan War, Sudanese Darfur genocide, Libya, and a whole host of other shit in other countries.

>> No.2638897

christfag out :)

>> No.2638907

>>2638878

The whole western and developed world is this ivory tower your speak of.

There are parts of the world that are shitholes, yes. But fewer than there used to be. We can work to make them better, reduce the corruption and superstition that is ruining their lives. Meanwhile, where we are, the developed world, is as good as anywhere has ever been for anyone.

It is possible that some radical ideology could take power and convince a nation to unquestioningly follow them again. And this could lead to a holocaust, if they were so motivated. I think this becomes less likely all the time. The holocaust itself was just a distillation of the Christian oppression of Jews over the millennia. The modern world has no such equivalent to build on, we strive not to consider anyone sub-human.


Are you honestly saying you would rather live at some point in the past?