/sci/ - Science & Math

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Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:09:28 2011 No.2622979 [Reply] [Original]

Ok /sci/, I need your collective expertise for a moment. First, two words.

WARM. WATER.

Why in the hell did the trip to Europa lose it's funding and effectively get shitcanned? I remember watching programs all about the drill they would use to get through the crust on the surface and send a rover with a camera down into the WARM WATER to search for signs of life. I think there's a pretty damn good chance of finding something interesting there.

I think it's because the world couldn't handle the announcement of the discovery of life off of our planet. Imagine bible bashers commiting suicide because their magic book didn't mention space worms.

FUCK.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:14:28 2011 No.2623010 File: 107 KB, 600x600, 600px-Europa-moon[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Pic related. LOOK AT THAT BEAUTIFUL BROKEN ICE. WHY THE FUCK AREN'T WE COLONIZING IT AGAIN? GODDAMNIT.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:15:28 2011 No.2623015 I just gotta say. Life possible on Europa. What's this stupid "Goldilocks Zone" that creationists love so much, again?

Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. Mon Feb 28 23:16:28 2011 No.2623023
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>>2622979
>>2623010
The (possible) future nation of the TRS pledges probes followed by full expedition teams if there are people with the expertise and willpower to create such missions. Immediately.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:17:28 2011 No.2623027 I was unaware the water on Europa was warm. Has this been known for long?

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:17:28 2011 No.2623032 >>2623015 1/10 The Goldilocks Zone has to do with liquid surface water. The key word is surface. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habitable_zone

Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. Mon Feb 28 23:18:28 2011 No.2623033
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>>2623027
No no, the hypothesis behind the ice rifts and cracks that run over all of Europa's surface is that there is a vast underground ocean that is kept warm by geothermal vents that are kept warm by Jupiter's tidal forces.

Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:20:28 2011 No.2623049

>>2623027
We have very little understanding about what's going on under the surface, but we at least know geothermal energy is keeping the bottom of the sea warm, possibly more.

There could be anything down there. And I dont just mean life. Unfortunately NASA is neutered, and I doubt China or Russia are very interested in it. And it is WAY too expensive for privates and contractors.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:20:28 2011 No.2623052 THERE'S PROBABLY LIFE UNDER THERE GOD DAMNIT

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:20:28 2011 No.2623053 >>2623015 They rely on solar heat for the Goldilocks Zone stuff. Doesn't really consider other sources of energy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:21:28 2011 No.2623056 >>2623049 >I don't just mean life What? What else?

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:21:28 2011 No.2623060 >>2623049 Will killing more brown people in the desert help? I can get behind that if it will. Let me know. best, -Murrica

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:21:28 2011 No.2623061 >>2623049 NASA is doing other things though, why don't they focus their efforts so I can see this shit done in my lifetime?

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:24:28 2011 No.2623072 >>2623056 I mean any kind of formation or pockets of heavy elements or ANYTHING. We just don't fucking know. >>2623061 Forget it. Thanks to all these budget cuts, don't expect a manned mission from NASA in the next 20 years.

>>	Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. Mon Feb 28 23:24:28 2011 No.2623074 File: 269 KB, 1164x699, 1280906662901.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2623061 >>2623060 Because killing sandniggers is far more important. But the other 99.99999999999% of the universe? That's a waste of taxpayers dollars.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:26:28 2011 No.2623090 >>2623074 where can I find the rest of this infographic?

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:27:28 2011 No.2623092 >>2623074 full picture or link to where you found that?

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:29:28 2011 No.2623098 Gentlemen, the only way any of us are going to see any of this happen is if we figure this aging shit out. To the biochem lab!

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:30:28 2011 No.2623108 >>2623072 >don't expect a manned mission from NASA in the next 20 years. Yea but today though.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:30:28 2011 No.2623112 >>2623098 Or the computers!

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:34:28 2011 No.2623128 >>2623090 >>2623092 PROTIP: Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security are more than double the defense budget

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:36:28 2011 No.2623141 File: 83 KB, 340x467, 1294364261595.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2623128 At least it's used for healing not killing. Your move.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:38:28 2011 No.2623150 >>2623141 >>2623128 Retired people rule the US, and this is a partial cause for its ruin.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:39:28 2011 No.2623158 File: 1.80 MB, 3500x2333, Death'n'Taxes FY2010.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2623092 >>2623090 Death & Taxes more recent version

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:40:28 2011 No.2623161 >>2623158 thank you

Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:40:28 2011 No.2623163

>>2623128

[Citation needed]

And your point is? How does providing for the sick and the elderly counterbalance bombing and gutting whole countries for financial interests? Unless, of course, you implicitly advocate ending social security, medicaid and medicare, to, I guess, help the poor investors and contractors in the middle east...

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:45:28 2011 No.2623173 it got cancelled so corporations can pay 1/6 the taxes that the people do instead of the 1/5 that they do now.

Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:46:28 2011 No.2623178

>>2623158
>dat funding for special education
Should we really be putting this money into people with the intelligence of dogs? I'm not talking about people with like ADD or something mild like that. I'm talking people in wheelchairs who just drool all over themselves before they die a merciful death at 30.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:47:28 2011 No.2623182 >>2623158 that really did break my heart just now :( the things I already knew, all together like that. The state we're in sucks so bad.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:49:28 2011 No.2623198 >>2623173 I'm mad because it's true.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:54:28 2011 No.2623220 >>2623178 >DoD $901 billion What the holy fuck?

Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:55:28 2011 No.2623226

>>2622979
You're kidding, right? Their magic book also doesn't mention the world being round, women not being property of men, men not being slaves to other men, how to treat diseases, how the universe formed...
But that doesn't matter and never stopped them before, because there are apologists to tell you what the PERFECT INERRANT WORD OF AN INFALLIBLE GOD really meant when it SAID THE WRONG THING.
The MOMENT. The very FUCKING INSTANT that life is reported on another planet, apologists will immediately "discover" six verses in their magic book that are so vague and nonsensical that they might mean alien worms exist, and then they will HAMMER that the book predicted where and what kind of alien life there would be
> "TROLOLOL REVELATIONS 8:11 PREDICTS A HEAVENLY BODY WITH WORMS."
or some bullshit like that. Just like they've done after every discovery.

Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:57:28 2011 No.2623232

>>2623178
This is what happens when you think everybody is special and everybody can learn. Some people can. Others need help. Some simply cannot. Let some people fail. If they're not cut out to be laywers, doctors, or politicians, well, shit, somebody still needs to take out the trash, clean toilets, and dig ditches.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 28 23:57:28 2011 No.2623234 >US Institute of Peace >0.047 Billion (-4%) lol

Anonymous Tue Mar 1 00:02:28 2011 No.2623251

>>2623232
What I don't understand is why it costs more money, aren't they just teaching them stuff at a simpler level? Shouldn't that be cheaper?
But no, because we have to hire a person for each and every one of them to wipe spit off their face and help them take a shit. All in the hopes that they might learn what a fucking square is.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 00:04:28 2011 No.2623261 File: 317 KB, 900x1600, 1297817484277.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2623158 Waisted tax dollars thread?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 00:04:28 2011 No.2623262 >>2623251 I'd back you on this, but that's some bad joo-joo you're brewing there.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 00:06:28 2011 No.2623272 >>2623262 juju*, my bad

Anonymous Tue Mar 1 00:06:28 2011 No.2623273

>>2623128

In fact, if you even bother reading the graphic, you'll find all the info you need:
Medicaid: 290 B
Medicare: 452 B
Social Security: 696 B
Total: 1438 Billion.
Defense Budget: 901 B

Do the ratio of social services to military spending and you get 1428/901 = 1.6. But 1.6 < 2, which clearly contradicts your "more than doubles" claim.

This is why 80% of you faggots are so insuffrable: you spew random bullshit you heard from your favorite TV news channel like it's holy writ without any thought or basis of any kind, other than it subscribes to your absurd biased beliefs. Fuck this shit..

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 00:08:28 2011 No.2623280 File: 78 KB, 360x180, Hear-Hear.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2623273

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 00:08:28 2011 No.2623282 >>2623262 It's not like I want to kill anyone, it's just they should have a separate education system so we can devote tax money to people with the capacity to learn. You know special ed students get more funding per head than normal students?

Anonymous Tue Mar 1 00:39:28 2011 No.2623380

>>2623273
Just want to point out, Social Security doesnt count, since it actually provides a SURPLUS. before you say "wat", the goverment already spent it. all of it. forever.(they put the surplus into the budget, intending to "pay it back" some day.

also I think the medi programs are more worth it then starting wars for no reason.(iraq)

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 04:27:28 2011 No.2624079 >>2623273 you forgot 2.6 trillon bank an corp bailout 26 times the cost of a 10 year 20 man space colony think of that next time you use a bank

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 04:29:28 2011 No.2624089 >>2624079 >use a bank more like next time you keep living in a world that is not complete anarchy

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 04:57:28 2011 No.2624155 >>2624089 moar like bailouts caused the "complete anarchy". inflation-> egypt-> us? dumbfag

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 05:00:28 2011 No.2624166 >>2624155 >us? not yet, nigger, fuck third world countries, they been US slaves for decades

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 05:20:28 2011 No.2624213 >>2624166 are u saing us arent US slaves too? about every 72 years slaves rise up rev wars-> civil wars-> ww1&2 ->now? bail outs trigered it this time

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 05:24:28 2011 No.2624220 >>2624213 it hasn't happened yet. keeping wishing into one hand and shitting in the other, see which one fills up first

Anonymous Tue Mar 1 05:24:28 2011 No.2624221
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>>2622979
Ok first off, drilling through Europan ice is easy. Sending pictures and data through 3-4 KILOMETERS OF ICE is rather hard. You need some pretty heavy duty fiber optic cables and a surface transmitter to get stuff back.

3-4 km of fiberoptic cable ain't exactly the lightest stuff in the world. Your surface transmitter also needs to survive the intense radiation of Jupiter's radiation belts and whatever hazards the Europan surface has to offer, like ice quakes.

Drilling through 3-4 km of ice could take around half a year, so your probe needs to have a long life as far as probes go. So your probe needs to be a tank, a nuclear powered tank.

It's probably not something that can be piggybacked onto the current probe. Though the lander they were intending to piggyback might not have been designed to drill all the way through the ice.

estimated cost is only $150 million though which is relatively cheap compared to some of the things the military spends money on:
http://start1.jpl.nasa.gov/caseStudies/europa.cfm

Oh yeah and the Russian's might be building one too, they don't plan on drilling all the way through the ice though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_Jupiter_System_Mission

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 05:28:28 2011 No.2624227 How creepy that the video should have 666 thousand views. Atheism is the devils work! Science and religion can be one together. I dislike their separation.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 05:32:28 2011 No.2624236 >>2623262 I'm not the guy you are replying to, but I was in the special education system in a US public school for two years. Those two years lead me to believe that equgenics might not be a bad thing after all, even if it means I might loose my balls.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 05:34:28 2011 No.2624245 >>2624236 eugenics, fuck I am tired.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 05:44:28 2011 No.2624260 Forgive the question if it is a little silly, however if we do drill down into the ocean beneath, won't the water just begin 'escpaing' through the drill hole into the vacuum of space due to the lack of pressure?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 05:46:28 2011 No.2624264 >>2624220 a refounding of the U.S. is a shity event, your wish that the bailouts work is FAIL. Plus your support of bailouts takes from space funding you are the cancer /end

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 05:49:28 2011 No.2624274 >>2624264 go back to france you EU shithead

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 05:59:28 2011 No.2624292 >>2624274 bailoutfag has buthurt

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 06:04:28 2011 No.2624298 >>2624260

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 06:07:28 2011 No.2624304 >>2624298 It seems like the kind of thing they would have planned for, but it would be hilarious if we ended up draining Europa because someone overlooked that.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 06:09:28 2011 No.2624307 >>2624304 That's what I was thinking hah.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 06:13:28 2011 No.2624319 >>2624260 drill baby drill. silly amerifag thats not your problem bailouts are! haha ha ha

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 06:20:28 2011 No.2624334 File: 8 KB, 217x208, 1298972656166.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2624319 WIN inb4 march 15 2011

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 06:25:28 2011 No.2624346 >>2624260 >>2624260 Nah, gravity would probably stop that. Even if it didn't the water would instantly freeze and plug the hole.

Anonymous Tue Mar 1 06:27:28 2011 No.2624350

One huge problem.

Although the chances of this actually happening are incredibly small. . . .

What if some tiny organism hitches a ride and hopped out in the warm water, then replicated and totally fucked up the ecosystem there if there is one?

Food for thought.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 06:40:28 2011 No.2624381 >>2623220 That's more than the government expenditure of the entire UK O.O

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 06:41:28 2011 No.2624384 >>2623261 Is that meant to be a fat joke at America?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 06:42:28 2011 No.2624388 >>2624350 honestly, i think that is why the project was scraped

>>	Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. Tue Mar 1 06:44:28 2011 No.2624389 Spending around a trillion dollars each year growing the military-industrial complex and killing sandniggers? That's protecting our freedom. But a single-payer healthcare system and free speech? That's communism.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 06:46:28 2011 No.2624394 >>2624389 yea, so? whats your point?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 06:46:28 2011 No.2624395 >>2624389 Oh America. Why don't you just give up the pretence?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 06:54:28 2011 No.2624412 File: 3 KB, 127x125, 1298700798964s.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 06:57:28 2011 No.2624418 >>2624395 what is under the alleged pretense? really, i'd like to know.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 06:58:28 2011 No.2624420 >>2624412 defend the republic! no collaborative governance!

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 07:01:28 2011 No.2624432 >>2624418 Oh shut up, idiot troll.

Anonymous Tue Mar 1 07:08:28 2011 No.2624444

>>2624432

when you say "give up the pretense" you mean just admit what we all know you are really doing, right?

so just tell me what you think america is really doing.

or are EU fags too stupid to do anything but repeat their own political propaganda?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 07:10:28 2011 No.2624447 Where in Europe are you going to find warm water under the surface ? Iceland ?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 07:16:28 2011 No.2624456 >>2624444 Because your country's people are not really free. Did you really not spot I was saying that?

Anonymous Tue Mar 1 07:17:28 2011 No.2624461
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/sci/ence is being destroyed by politics and religon in the states.
maby it is ok that amerika is burning
anon can fan the flames for lulz.
then born of the destruction a great technocracy can be formed
This is the gospel of /sci/, peace be with you

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 07:19:28 2011 No.2624470 >>2624444 Your country kills thousands in the name of freedom, yet when it comes to truly noble causes you lie, cheat and steal to get out of it. It's pathetic.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 07:22:28 2011 No.2624477 Uhh...erupoa is a moon of jupiter or saturn I forget which one. But there is a decent chance of finding life

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 07:25:28 2011 No.2624483 File: 57 KB, 1024x934, Troll Peek.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2624447

Anonymous Tue Mar 1 07:26:28 2011 No.2624485

>>2624456

oh, but your cuntry is soo free, lets all live there and pay 90% of our earnings to the gov't.

>>2624470
yea, i guess going to the moon, curing polio/measles/yellow fever/et al, decoding the human genome, protecting trade routes all across the globe, thats all just running away like pathetic little euro fags, right?

>>	mo‮8pE! to‬pui‮# 2wV8‬# A‮imd‬n‬‬‬‬‬‬ None !KZnyecwpQw Tue Mar 1 07:26:28 2011 No.2624487 I am going to archive this

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 07:30:28 2011 No.2624490 >>2624487 thanks, the shame of /sci/ for all to see, for all time

>>	Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. Tue Mar 1 07:34:28 2011 No.2624495 >>2624487 Oh if only you weren't such a horrible fake.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 07:35:28 2011 No.2624499 File: 288 KB, 641x850, 1297749552289.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Anonymous can`t do shit. You and collaborative governance can fuck off. I`ll die for the Bill of Rights you commiefag

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 07:42:28 2011 No.2624503 It would seem everything must include hostility towards you fellow man.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 07:42:28 2011 No.2624505 Fuck, I thought I'd check the text board, because they'd have to be better than the imageboard. That was the case with /n/ - news at least. But alas, myth busted.

Anonymous Tue Mar 1 07:58:28 2011 No.2624524

>>2624485

Hahaha wow, you haven't got a clue.

Your country spends more on its military than the rest of the world combines. If you just put that into something a bit more useful you might achieve a lot more than you are now.

You're too patriotic to see anything wrong with your country, and I find that hilarious.

Anonymous Tue Mar 1 07:59:28 2011 No.2624526

>>2624485

HURR DURR YOUR COUNTRY IS CRAP TOO SO THAT MAKES MINE OK

Actually, the EU contributes far more to solving world hunger than the US. Also, I get a lot of shit for free from the government so in the end I actually come out better educated and happier.

Get fucked, Americunt.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:02:28 2011 No.2624535 >>2624485 >Implying freedom is better than everything else. So what you're saying is that anarchy is the best thing?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:07:28 2011 No.2624543 >>2624495 Oh if only you weren't such a horrible deluded leftist preacher.

Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:08:28 2011 No.2624544

>>2624485

>Implying there isn't more social mobility in Europe.
>Implying there aren't more social freedoms in Europe.
>Implying you've been to the moon in 40 years.
>Implying it was the US alone that cured those diseases.
>Implying only you defend trade routes.

Yeah, right.

Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:09:28 2011 No.2624549

>>2624524

isn't it funny we spend all that money on war, and still manage to do more good in science and medicine than any other country?, kinda weird, right? makes you think the US is actually better than ever other country that sucks our dick all day for the past hundred years.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:10:28 2011 No.2624552 trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls there's absolutely nothing of value ITT

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:11:28 2011 No.2624554 >>2622979 Did I heard space worms?!? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLw9hEb-ayI

Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:11:28 2011 No.2624555

>>2623074
The only thing wrong with that is the efficiency at which it's done.
I'd say downright extermination, but that's just me.
And after we rid ourselves with this undesirable portion of humanity, we may proceed into building a glorious space empire.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:13:28 2011 No.2624558 >>2624526 >free Nothing the government gives you is free. And its people like you and that type of thinking which makes poorly managed socialism so disgusting to many Americans.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:14:28 2011 No.2624562 >>2624549 Because of private investors and private institutions. It has very little to do with the government. In terms of scientific investment by governments the EU blows you away.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:15:28 2011 No.2624566 >>2624558 >Implying that Americans are even aware or are interested in the large scale political/economical policies of their country and don't simply spend their time shopping, going to a football match or iPhoning each other.

Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:16:28 2011 No.2624567

>>2624558

Oh wow, you completely missed my point.

I meant I paid for it in taxes, which meant that when it came round to using it is was free. It means that the poor don't get fucked over if something really bad happens to them.

It's your stupid nature and selfish attitudes that makes Europeans despair at America.

Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:19:28 2011 No.2624574

>>2624562

yea, its not like the american gov't provides the markets for those private business to exist or tha the eu destroys the opputunities for private business os it has to tax the shirt off its citizens back to make anything happen.

proof is in the results. america pwns every other country on the planet in science, engineering, medicine, and every other type if intelligent learning.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:20:28 2011 No.2624576 >>2624567 Dude, are you actually arguing with an American regarding whether or not it's okay to help others rather than raping them? Seriously? What kind of an answer do you expect?

Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:25:28 2011 No.2624588

>>2624574

The best institutions existed long before America "provided that grounding". They attract the best because they are the best, not because of your government "providing them with that opportunity". Institutions like them exist around the globe and it's always the same story.

Innovation in America has come to a startling halt in the past 20 years, and your market has only become freer and freer.

Yes, the evidence is really supportive of your claims.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:26:28 2011 No.2624593 >>2624566 Americans are the symptom of the modern-living disease. Buy buy buy, everything's okay because you can just buy buy buy. Freedom is free, look, you have freedom, just buy the new product.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:26:28 2011 No.2624595 >>2624574 The EU taxes heavily yet also gives back heavily. It means some lose out but some gain from it. The point is to help those who are worse off get back on their feet. Can you really not see this?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:27:28 2011 No.2624596 >>2624574 Support for your claims?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:28:28 2011 No.2624597 >>2624574 Slowly slipping. Sad part is that America just holds onto its pride. Without collaborative efforts the last two decades of science would have never happened.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:29:28 2011 No.2624600 >>2624595 Blind pride is a funny thing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:33:28 2011 No.2624606 >>2624574 I can't hear you over the sound of my Large Hadron Collider.

Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:36:28 2011 No.2624618

>>2624574

And then it puts that money into what would otherwise have been invested in private endeavours.

In terms of the welfare of citizens:

The EU beats America in HDI, happiness measures, world aid, scientific investment etc.

The USA beat the EU in GDP per capita and defence.

Impressive.

Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:38:28 2011 No.2624629

>>2624574

Then why did those American industries require the taxpayer to bail them out?

The best cars are European, the best clothes are European, the best writers are European and the best heavy industry is Japanese/European.

Before you start ranting about how great your universities are, remember they're inflated figures. American universities are mostly terrible, but the top 15 or so get close to private industry and take a load of money in exchange for support.

Proof is in the figures. Oxford produces the same, or better, results than Harvard, with 8 times less funding and charges students 13 times less a year to study there.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:40:28 2011 No.2624633 File: 181 KB, 477x599, crestCambridgeUniversity.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2624629 ahem

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:42:28 2011 No.2624644 >>2624633 Do you have the Durham and Bath logos too? Then you'd have the entire set of Oxford reject universities.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:46:28 2011 No.2624654 >>2624644 >Cambridge is an Oxford reject uni. >wtfamireading Oh, you're forgetting UCL, KCL, Imprerial, Bristol, St Andrews too.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:47:28 2011 No.2624656 >>2624654 *Imperial

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 08:49:28 2011 No.2624657 >>2624644 >Cambridge regularly tops Oxford in the world rankings. >(Incorrectly) judges it on undergradutes applying there. >laughinggirls.jpg

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 1 09:11:28 2011 No.2624702 File: 60 KB, 750x600, Facepalm.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2624657 >>2624644 Here comes the rivalry...

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