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/sci/ - Science & Math

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2553590 No.2553590 [Reply] [Original]

When will human cloning be possible>

>> No.2553593

As far as I know, it is possible now, it just has 0 benefits and would be a waste of money.

>> No.2553592

It's already possible.

Next question.

>> No.2553595

It's perfectly possible, but it's also "unethical".

>> No.2553600

>>2553593
Yeah, cloning Einstein and other geniuses would have zero benefits and is a complete waste of money

>> No.2553609

>>2553593
so you dont consider that being able to clone new organs for yourself might be a benefit?

gee wiz youre smart

>> No.2553612

>>2553595
Why do we bother with "ethics"
Science hasn't done anything since they were adopted.

>> No.2553614

russians have done it fifty years ago

conclusion=its not worth it

>> No.2553619

>>2553600
You hit the nail on the head.

It really is a waste of money.
And you can't just clone with any old piece of dna.. well actually I think you could but it would be just as technically demanding as man landing on the moon in the 1950s.

>> No.2553622

>>2553614

yet

>> No.2553627

>>2553595
It's ethical for me - I use natural, non-religious human ethics.

>> No.2553628

>>2553600
It would still be useless since the clones would have an extremely shortened lifespan and wouldn't know what they knew, and that in stripping away the epigenetic information, may destroy what made them geniuses in the first place. Yeah, that sounds really useful.

>> No.2553634

>>2553619

it won't be a waste of money when we need super soldiers to fight an alien invasion or skynet's robot army

the gov't is holding the big guns for the big fight

and btw, some special forces are already clones

>> No.2553636

>>2553622
Ever.
The old fashioned way of growing geniuses will always be cheaper.

>> No.2553642

>>2553609
You don't need to clone humans to make new organs.

>>2553600
You don't understand cloning or you need to stop trolling.

>> No.2553641

>>2553628
You could do all sorts of studies with clones, medical and psychological.

>> No.2553651

>>2553628
Most of the genius is inherited.
They would be able to solve very complicated social, political and economic problems presented to them without the identical upbringing or environmental factors.

Interests are also rather genetic - genetics played the largest role in Einstein's fascination by physics, as well as the environmental factors (his father showing his a compass), which are very easy to replicate.

>> No.2553655

>>2553641
The same studies can be conducted on lab animals that are much cheaper and already bred to homogeneity.

>> No.2553659

>>2553634
>super soldiers
>special forces are already clones
>government holding out

Uh
What

Even by 4chan standards what you just said was retarded.
Hell, even by /sci/ standards what you said was retarded. Imagine a group of 50 IQ children in special school laughing at you.

>> No.2553660

>>2553642
a religious nutjob tries to derail the thread

>> No.2553670

>>2553651
And yet, in striping epigenetic information we could end up with a bumbling retard instead and have wasted shit tons of cash in the process.

>> No.2553678

>>2553600

we already know the theory of relativity - so why another einstein ;)

something you don't consider is that not just the genetic material defines a persons capabilities but also the environment

>> No.2553679

>>2553670
And yet, the Apollo spacecraft could just miss the Moon and go into the deep space, with all the astronauts dying

>> No.2553689

>>2553660
lol no. You just seem like a retard. You really don't need to clone people to make new organs. If you don't understand that concept than I don't know what to say.

>> No.2553698

>>2553689
We have yet to grow organs in a vat.
Babies are very good at growing organs.

>> No.2553702

>>2553678
It's mostly genetic.
Imagine if we cloned geniuses who could solve complicated scientific, economic and social problems for us.

>> No.2553711

>>2553689
Not the person you were talking with

>> No.2553719

>>2553679
Apollo space craft =/= random deletion of epigenetic information hoping that it works well enough for it to be viable, let alone capable of functioning as an adult. Seriously, do you know how many failures there are to each successful clone?

>> No.2553715

i want a clone of the girl in OP's pic too :3

>> No.2553737

>>2553698
Yes, yes we have...

>> No.2553743

>>2553698
If you don't believe me spend five minutes googling it.

>> No.2553748

>>2553698
nope

>> No.2553760

>>2553737

you're failing to consider the expenses involved

millions of dollars for one organ

or a bit more expensive than a head of beef for a whole set of organs

>> No.2553787

>>2553760
>implying as technology improves cost won't go down
>implying cloning a human and killing it for the organs would be legal
Think realistically man. Human cloning for harvesting of organs will never be made legal.

>> No.2553852

bwahaha

>> No.2553861
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2553861

>>2553852
Oh you.

>> No.2553867

>>2553787
There is one possibility, which I admit to stealing from Transmetropolitan.

What if you can induce the clones to grow with anencephaly? Only enough brain stem to keep the organs going. No mind at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anencephaly

In Transmetropolitan they explored the idea of these clones being used an exotic meat source.

>> No.2553878

>>2553737
>>2553737


actually, the number of organs successfully grown semisynthetically or fully synthetically is miniscule.


there are maybe 3 examples in the whole of human history where this has been achieved, and ALL of them were pure research examples performed at Universities or R&D departments.


as it stands, implantation of synthetic organs (as an organ transplant) is at least 15 years off.


human cloning is probably about 5x that long...
I wouldnt expect to see it until I was in a retirement home (like 60 years)
people still seem to think that the RATE of scientific advancement is increasing, like it had been during the early and middle of the 20th century....
if you know anything at all, you know that the rate of scientific advancement has been plateuing for the last 20 years.
each new significant breakthrough takes more and more money, more and more time, and more and more people to achieve it.

>> No.2553889

>>2553787

this nigger's never heard of china

after your first kid, all subsequent births are illegal,

breed clones, baby becomes property of state, organs harvested

anything you think won't happen because its illegal, will definitely happen somewhere in the world, and china is getting shit done

>> No.2553908

when you clone someone you dont create the exact same person, it is like twins. one might be very clever and the other dumb.... so if we clone Einstein we will not get the exact person with the exact level of intelligence

>> No.2553912

>>2553878
I said nothing to disagree with you. I fully know that synthetic organ transplant will take 1-2 decades to develop. I also never mentioned how many synthetic organs were created because it was irrelevant to the question I was answering.

>> No.2553921

>>2553889
We are clearly talking about western countries. I don't give a fuck about what happens in china

>> No.2553923

>>2553878

what is this idiocy about human cloning being decades away?

we have been cloning cows for the beef industry for the last 25 years.

look up shotgun method cloning

you don't need to do direct nuclear transfer to clone something

lrn2basic molecular biology

>> No.2553929

>>2553921

now you're pretending china doesn't sell those organs to the west?

yea you're pretty far into a delusional world, bro

>> No.2553933

>>2553929
This is me still not giving a fuck

>> No.2553939

It is possible now. Once IVF is possible, then those blastomeres can be divided to make twins, and that's cloning already. What is not possible is cloning adults, and it is unlikely that the research will be permitted in the foreseeable future.

>> No.2553949

>>2553933

sage-fag, why so your an idiot?

>> No.2553957

>>2553939

look up SHOTGUN METHOD CLONING

and tell me why any IVF clinic today couldn't be doing this with anyone's DNA if they wanted?

>> No.2553978

>>2553923
>>2553923

human cloning is at least 50-70 years away.
100% of all cloned macroscopic organisms (like animals, not bacterium) develop genetic damage very very quickly.


basically, they have all gotten cancer or something equivalent.
and remember:


a mouse or cat that has been genetically modified to glow in the dark (which also eventually die from cancer), IS NOT A CLONE.


they use artificial insemination or some other artificial breeding method and INFECT the early form of the fetus with a recombinant virus.


not a clone.
a clone means NO EGGS, NO SPERM.
all of the sheep, all of the mice, all of the other animals.


they ALL die of cancer or other genetic difficulties.


the mortality rate in this regard is, literally, exactly or almost 100% (like 999 out of 1000 die this way).
As it stands, organs that are grown synthetically are NOT cloned. they are grown from stem cells.

this process is completely unrelated to cloning.

>> No.2553981

>>2553957
Genetic modification of a zygote can certainly be done, but it doesn't result in cloning. Also, replacement of the entire genome of a zygote could be done, which would result in cloning, but the resulting zygote would not be viable, because the DNA in mature cells (somatic cells) will not (unlike the DNA in the zygote) reproduce in a way compatible with embryonic development to a viable fetus.

>> No.2553999

>>2553978
Cloning of frogs is quite common for experimental purposes, but that means splitting an early-developing embryo into constituent cells so that they develop into independent organisms. Adult cloning is what OP means, but is not what he said. The research on humans will not be permitted even in 50 years, I would predict.