Take a look at this: http://www.ineedmotivation.com/blog/2008/05/100-benefits-of-meditation/ And tell me why is meditation not encouraged by the western civilization? If anything it's sort of a taboo. Why is this?

File: 82 KB, 500x234, hulk-norton-meditation-img.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:08:14 2011 No.2540992 [Reply] [Original]

Take a look at this: http://www.ineedmotivation.com/blog/2008/05/100-benefits-of-meditation/

And tell me why is meditation not encouraged by the western civilization? If anything it's sort of a taboo. Why is this?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:10:14 2011 No.2541004 Thanks for the list. I lol'd.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:11:14 2011 No.2541009 Because western civilization can't process the concept of concentrating for periods of time simply to gain greater control of one's emotions. Nope, all western civilization can process is pretending you're talking to an invisible sky wizard.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:15:14 2011 No.2541036 >1- It lowers oxygen consumption. stopped reading right there

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:16:14 2011 No.2541039 >>2541036 Are you going to argument this or are you just going to act like a know-it-all?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:17:14 2011 No.2541047 >>2541036 But it does. You can lower heart rate and general metabolism.

>>	Implying Tue Feb 15 17:18:14 2011 No.2541052 Why would someone want to lower their metabolism?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:18:14 2011 No.2541053 File: 103 KB, 480x480, Dude What.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2541039 >Are you going to argument this >going to argument this >argument

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:20:14 2011 No.2541061

>>2541053
In logic, an argument is a set of one or more meaningful declarative sentences (or "propositions") known as the premises along with another meaningful declarative sentence (or "proposition") known as the conclusion. A deductive argument asserts that the truth of the conclusion is a logical consequence of the premises; an inductive argument asserts that the truth of the conclusion is supported by the premises. Deductive arguments are valid or invalid, and sound or not sound. An argument is valid if and only if the truth of the conclusion is a logical consequence of the premises and (consequently) its corresponding conditional is a necessary truth. A sound argument is a valid argument with true premises.

C/P from wiki

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:24:14 2011 No.2541082 I am actually somewhat interested in this. Are there benefits from meditation?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:27:14 2011 No.2541095 3- It increases blood flow and slows the heart rate. 6- Good for people with high blood pressure. ...

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:27:14 2011 No.2541099 File: 31 KB, 349x642, Retard.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2541061 I know what an argument is. I was pointing out the grammar, brah.

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:34:14 2011 No.2541143

OP's link is just some company making claims about meditation (without any evidence) in order to sell CDs.

That said, I don't see why meditation couldn't have some benefits. It just seems like a form of relaxation and possibly stress-relief, and it seems plausible that that could be beneficial. But without evidence, you don't really know.

I think where you could go wrong with it is if you start believing all the supernatural hippy bullshit that surrounds meditation in the culture.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:38:14 2011 No.2541172 Vulcans do it to suppress emotions. :] Clearly that's the greatest benefit.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:40:14 2011 No.2541177 >>2541172 FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:40:14 2011 No.2541181 Recommending a documentary called "David wants to fly". It has much info about the guru-hype but is also amusing as a film.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:42:14 2011 No.2541186 meditation can lead to or exacerbate already existing mental disorders there are healthier ways of relaxing without the dangerous side effects

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:45:14 2011 No.2541198 Meditation=Relaxation.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:45:14 2011 No.2541199 >>2541186 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_on_meditation >but this question has not been fully researched.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:45:14 2011 No.2541200 Meditation must be a way for the body and the mind to clean the mess up like you do when you sleep, I guess. >>2541082 Do it and figure out for yourself ! There's at least one benefit: you'll have learned something.

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:45:14 2011 No.2541201

Because it's associated with Eastern mystic crappy mumbo-jumbo. And hippies like it and it's natural to dislike it.

And in some cases that may be true, but there are dozens of meditative techniques with and without various amounts of useless baggage. It is hard to generalize.

Simple meditative practices such as concentrating on the breath etc. can be beneficial in that they can improve concentration and develop mental self-control, etc., but saying that it's some crazy cure-all is going too far.

>>	I'M GAY FOR FRONK YONG Tue Feb 15 17:46:14 2011 No.2541203 Meditation is just a hybrid form of rest + thinking time. It's nothing more glamorous than being temporarily thoughtful.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:46:14 2011 No.2541205 File: 30 KB, 355x342, 1264577798660.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] > meditation can lead to or exacerbate already existing mental disorders >mfw

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:47:14 2011 No.2541209 >>2541186 It depends entirely what kind of meditation you're talking about.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:50:14 2011 No.2541223 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Rama You can ultimately gain control of your bodily functions

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:53:14 2011 No.2541249 I don't have time to meditate. I have better things to do. Like not meditating.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:56:14 2011 No.2541265 1. Breathe 2. Relax 3. Fall asleep Bravo You're meditating

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:57:14 2011 No.2541268 >>2541265 Nah bro, that's called going to sleep.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:57:14 2011 No.2541270 >>2541223 There's no citation on that particular paragraph...

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 17:57:14 2011 No.2541273 >>2541223 >You can ultimately gain control of your bodily functions Like people doing psychedelics?

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:00:14 2011 No.2541294

>>2541249
But that's why things like stress and other people's emotions can get to you. That's why you're sometimes neurotic, have headaches spend your time in a general sense of non well-beingness. It's also why you keep doing drugs (legal or non-legal, doesn't matter) and why misery can get to you so easily. I believe this is because you're unable to control yourself. And that one thing that helps gain control over yourself is meditation.

Of course I'm not really talking about you, but most people in general. (I'm generalizing)

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:00:14 2011 No.2541295 >>2541268 Going to sleep is what meditation IS you moron, the only difference is you train yourself to do it sitting up

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:06:14 2011 No.2541350 File: 174 KB, 315x400, shnorkel.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2541295 Seriously, gtfo.

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:07:14 2011 No.2541358

>>2541295

This anon doesn't actually know anything about meditation.

Which is part of the issue that Op has raised. People have a lot of preconceptions and assumptions, they've just seeped into western culture over the years.

The tl;dr of it is that it's not so simple.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:08:14 2011 No.2541365 >>2541358 >>2541350 Oh I'm sorry, must be mistaken, what is MEDITATION then?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:09:14 2011 No.2541373 >>2541365 There is no singular "meditation". That's part of the issue here.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:10:14 2011 No.2541379 >>2541365 Grow up first, kid. Then start asking.

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:10:14 2011 No.2541382

"Transcendental meditation" = supposedly new form of meditation invented by Mahesh Yogi (widely recognized in India as a charlatan) for Western consumption
Other forms of meditation = ancient techniques for methodical introspection and gaining control over otherwise unconscious thought processes, including processes that affect the body.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:11:14 2011 No.2541388 >>2541373 >>2541379 >Baawwwww! He called us on our quackery! Hahaha, go balance your humors with candles you hippie faggots

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:11:14 2011 No.2541390 >1. It lowers oxygen consumption. >benefit I stopped reading there.

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:15:14 2011 No.2541407

>>2541388

Cool rebuttal, but it doesn't change the fact that you've shown that you don't actually know anything about meditation.

There are a variety of practices, with a multitude of different goals, dependent on the context the method is placed in. As I've said there is no, singular "meditation".

The most common practice is breath meditation, which is simply concentrating on the sensation of the breath. The purpose is to calm down the mind and learn to curb mental proliferation. Different contexts have different goals for this practice. Some weird and quacky, some not. It's not a simple subject.

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:18:14 2011 No.2541428

>>2541407
It's not a rebuttal because you don't even have an argument! Where is your definition of what meditation is and what it does?

>There are a variety of practices, with a multitude of different goals, dependent on the context the method is placed in.
>Infinity of possibilities I can use to cover my ass with when whatever you're doing fails.
Try again.

>breath meditation
>breathe
>calm down the mind
>relax
>curb mental proliferation
Don't know what the fuck this is (mind sex?) but it can't be different from sleep.

So what you're saying is that my original statement is absolutely correct? Thanks bro.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:19:14 2011 No.2541438 >>2541061 He was referring to the way you used English in that sentence. You probably should have used 'argue your point' or some other variant. retard

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:23:14 2011 No.2541456

>>2541428

>Try again.

But, it's true. Just because you haven't taken the time to actually learn about something doesn't mean those facts aren't real.

>Don't know what the fuck this is (mind sex?)

Mental proliferation could be translated as "wandering thoughts". I don't care if you don't like meditation, but at least argue against meditation itself instead of your assumptions about what it is.

>but it can't be different from sleep.

Another assumption on your part.

Your whole argument is a strawman, you're just railing against your own assumptions which you refuse to bother to correct.

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:23:14 2011 No.2541458

>>2541428
Just for the sake of argument I'm going to try and objectively answer this. Sleep is when you lose consciousness while the REM state gets induced. Meditation is when you do the same, but don't lose consciousness in the process.

If you don't see the benefits it's because you never tried it and have no idea how it feels like.

Personally, I enjoy the glow that goes with it. And it lasts for days after.

Those are my 2 cents.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:24:14 2011 No.2541467 >>2541458 Meditation doesn't necessarily have any correlate with the sleep cycle at all. Some might, though. For example Tibetan lucid dreaming practices.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:24:14 2011 No.2541469 >>2541438 I apologize for English not being my native language?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:27:14 2011 No.2541483 >>2541270 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biofeedback

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:30:14 2011 No.2541497

>>2541223
I did that without "meditation", its called focus and being human. You can even turn off your sense of pain and your immune system, just takes practice and you have to know exactly how to do it. Good thing evolution tries it best to stop you because doing both is full retard

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:32:14 2011 No.2541509

Here's a crazy theory: meditation actually gives you the advantage over other people since you can control your energy much more efficiently. It gives you the power of manipulation. It seems natural that only wise people should gain this, otherwise everyone could manipulate the world in their own selfish interests.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:32:14 2011 No.2541511 >>2541428 See >>2541199

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:33:14 2011 No.2541515 >>2541509 Yeah, that's a crazy theory. That's the kind if nebulous mumbo-jumbo that makes people scoff at the idea of meditation.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:33:14 2011 No.2541519 >42- Increased brain wave coherence. I feel really dumb, I must have missed the portion in my bio/anatomy courses that covered brain waves.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:35:14 2011 No.2541538 >>2541515 But my theory suggests that it's a good thing. So no harm done.

Shiro Tue Feb 15 18:39:14 2011 No.2541557

don't bring this into /sci/, OP. most of these individuals are skeptics and the 'hur dur if i kant c it den i dont berieve it.' for the record:

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/04.18/09-tummo.html

and before you guys get all up-in-arms,
>Benson is an associate professor of medicine at the Harvard Medical School and president of the Mind/Body Medical Institute at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston.

hurr durr ahurrrrrr.

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:48:14 2011 No.2541609

>>2541456
OK so breathe deep, relax, and take some of this mescaline maaaan.

Fucking hippies.

>>2541458
So it's lucid dreaming? Boo hoo, settle on a definition you tards, or admit you've all been doing completely different things.

>glow
lol meaningless buzzword

>>2541509
>since you can control your energy much more efficiently
>energy
KAAAAMEEEE, HAAAAAMEEEE, HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

/sci/ - Religionfags need not apply

>>2541519
lold my ass off on that one

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:52:14 2011 No.2541638

>>2541609
Who the fuck are you supposed to be? Judging by your replies I'd say your IQ is around 30 or possibly less, so what the fuck are you doing on /sci/ anyways?

tl;dr: formulate an appropriate response or gtfo, we're not responsible for your acne problems, you fucktard

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 18:52:14 2011 No.2541641

>>2541609

>and take some of this mescaline maaaan. Fucking hippies.

No. Cool strawman though.

>admit you've all been doing completely different things

Get it through your head: There is no single thing which is meditation. There are many practices.

That said, that other stuff IS bullshit. Brainwaves and energy and stuff. There is definitely bullshit in meditation culture. But a lot of it stems from the same half-baked preconceptions that you yourself are guilty of.

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 19:01:14 2011 No.2541709

>>2541641
I'll tell you one thing. The poses and hand signs and shit of meditation is complete bs. You don't have to sit up, you can lay down and focus. All meditation does is take away pain and help you focus for longer. It's not magic, its a bunch of electromagnetic bullshit from the thing called your mind.

>>	fuck off fuck off Tue Feb 15 19:03:14 2011 No.2541723 >>2541638 Don't know what scale you're using, but hippies who believe in "glows", "energies", "auras" and other bullshit are about 30 points below me, so fuck off >>2541641 Talk to me when you quantify it, until then, fuck off

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 19:03:14 2011 No.2541724 >>2541709 This is actually true. Meditation can be done regardless of what position or situation you're in. You can do it throughout the day if you know how.

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 19:07:14 2011 No.2541751

>>2541723
I'm using the scale of people being able to formulate a response and actually behaving like a real person, not a fucking troll-goblin cross breed. The way you defend your beliefs speaks a great deal about you not actually being sure about them. It's a dead giveaway.

Now please, by all means, tell me I'm a hippie again and post no real thoughts of your own with it. It amuses me deeply.

>>	EK !EKFQOBUFnQ Tue Feb 15 19:08:14 2011 No.2541755 >>2540992 I don't think it is seen as taboo, but it is unusual. I find it quite useful.

>>	EK !EKFQOBUFnQ Tue Feb 15 19:09:14 2011 No.2541764 >>2541172 thats why i do it. :)

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 19:16:14 2011 No.2541801 >>2541723 >Talk to me when you quantify it, until then, fuck off Talk to me when your argument consists of something more than a strawman.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 19:16:14 2011 No.2541803 >1- It lowers oxygen consumption. "physiological signals show that there is a decrease in respiration and increase in heart rate and blood oxygen saturation levels." Thanks wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_on_meditation

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 19:17:14 2011 No.2541805 >>2541751 >defend your beliefs >implying i have beliefs >implying you fags somehow did a better job OMG HES STUPID CUZ HE SAY BAD WRD

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 19:18:14 2011 No.2541811 >>2541803 Conclusion: Meditation is purple monkey dishwasher

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 19:22:14 2011 No.2541831

>>2541805

These are Cipolla's five fundamental laws of stupidity:
Always and inevitably each of us underestimates the number of stupid individuals in circulation.
The probability that a given person is stupid is independent of any other characteristic possessed by that person.
A person is stupid if they cause damage to another person or group of people without experiencing personal gain, or even worse causing damage to themselves in the process.
Non-stupid people always underestimate the harmful potential of stupid people; they constantly forget that at any time anywhere, and in any circumstance, dealing with or associating themselves with stupid individuals invariably constitutes a costly error.
A stupid person is the most dangerous type of person there is.

Thank you wiki!
~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupidity

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 19:26:14 2011 No.2541853

>>2541709

>ou don't have to sit up, you can lay down and focus. All meditation does is take away pain and help you focus for longer. It's not magic

This is not that far from the truth.

In Buddhism there are 4 traditional meditation postures: Sitting down, sitting in a chair, lying to the side, or lying on your back. + another, while walking. Your hands don't matter as long as they're comfortable. Nothing special to it.

And there is nothing "magic" whatsoever in it's purpose or function, which is, to keep the mind free of distraction and on task, as well as happy and unperturbed so that it can be used for effective contemplation. That's all. It doesn't take a genius to know that it's easier to think and understand things when you aren't agitated and distracted.

That is as far as early Buddhism is concerned. There are plenty of weird things out there though, "meditation" has been around for thousands of years and has endless permutations.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 19:31:14 2011 No.2541879 >>2541831 None of my posts fit into any of those categories, you posting them means one of two things: 1. You didn't read my posts 2. You didn't read what you posted Neither of which reflects well on your intelligence, asshat.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 19:40:14 2011 No.2541956 >>2541879 >>2541879 I just read this whole thread and have not partaken in this argument, so I can objectively say: You are a totally fuck-wit and need to go die in a fire.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 19:43:14 2011 No.2541972 >>2541956 Samefag lol, too obvious

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 19:47:14 2011 No.2541997 >>2541972 You would say that, wouldn't you. It'd be way too damaging to your stupid ego to accept that multiple people are offended by your idiotic bullshit.

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 19:49:14 2011 No.2542010
File: 9 KB, 205x251, faggot..jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>2541997
There's only one faggot here "offended" (lol sissy) when people say bad words, although the fact that those people utterly wrecked his beliefs might have more to do with it

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 19:52:14 2011 No.2542025

>>2542010

Since I'm the one you were arguing with I can say that he is no samefag, but you might not believe me.

Furthermore there was no wrecking going on on your part. You don't have an argument, you're just going off on your own assumptions about something that you don't actually know anything about, while refusing to admit that you don't know what you're talking about.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 19:54:14 2011 No.2542044 >>2542025 Cry fucking more you smelly hippie, your LSD laced tears are delicious!

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 19:59:14 2011 No.2542067 Op here. Two simple rules: 1. don't feed the troll 2. don't fucking feed the troll They lose interest once they see everyone's just ignoring them.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 20:02:14 2011 No.2542088 >>2542067 Alright, this pussy hippie is boring me anyway.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 20:04:14 2011 No.2542105 >>2542044 If I could cry LSD I'd be fucking rich. But no seriously, you still don't have an argument.

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 20:06:14 2011 No.2542112

>>2542088
Just for the record, people who use strong words on the internet turn out to be pussy faggots in reality. I'd really like to see you try to say that to my face some day. I'm 82" @ 230 pounds. I'd enjoy hanging you upside down to some fucking tree. :D

снайпер Tue Feb 15 20:09:14 2011 No.2542128
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>>2541811
Err... you need to re-read that.

Actually, here, let me explain it piecemeal for you.

>1- It lowers oxygen consumption.

>"physiological signals show that there is a decrease in respiration and increase in heart rate and blood oxygen saturation levels."

>Decrease in respiration
Breathing less
>Increase in heartbeat
Faster heartbeat
Here's where you fucked up:
>increase in blood oxygen saturation levels
Or in other words - a decrease in oxygen consumption

снайпер Tue Feb 15 20:15:14 2011 No.2542151
File: 106 KB, 600x800, Igino_Giordano_-_Dawn_has_Broken.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>2541764
While I can see the merit in limiting some emotions [Especially hate, anger, frustration, irritation, etc.]

I don't understand why you would do it for the good emotions. Is feeling love or companionship for someone else really so bad?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 20:19:14 2011 No.2542174 >>2542151 It's a matter of being able to control emotions, not just forget about them.

>>	снайпер Tue Feb 15 20:30:14 2011 No.2542222 File: 88 KB, 1111x625, InetgraFX_-_Pilot.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2542174 Well, the word used isn't "Control", it's "Suppress". They don't mean the same thing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 20:36:14 2011 No.2542258 >>2542222 But being able to suppress your emotions implies you have control over them.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 20:39:14 2011 No.2542266 >>2542258 There is more to control than just suppression, for example, being able to bring about certain emotions.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 20:44:14 2011 No.2542280 >>2542266 I just lost you. How do you bring about certain emotions?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 20:46:14 2011 No.2542295 >>2542280 To put it another way, learning to develop beneficial emotions, by learning what causes lead to their occurring.

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 20:52:23 2011 No.2542325 [DELETED]

>>2541388
>Cool rebuttal, but it doesn't change the fact that you've shown that you don't actually know anything about stuffing dick up the ass.

There are a variety of practices, with a multitude of different goals, dependent on the context the method is placed in. As I've said there is no, singular "fudge packing".

The most common practice is butt sex, which is simply concentrating on the sensation of the penis in the anus. The purpose is to get off and learn to be a faggot. Different contexts have different goals for this practice. Some weird and quacky, some not. It's not a simple subject.
fix'd

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 20:53:14 2011 No.2542335

>>2541388
>Cool rebuttal, but it doesn't change the fact that you've shown that you don't actually know anything about stuffing dick up the ass.

>There are a variety of practices, with a multitude of different goals, dependent on the context the method is placed in. As I've said there is no, singular "fudge packing".

>The most common practice is butt sex, which is simply concentrating on the sensation of the penis in the anus. The purpose is to feel the sphincter and learn to get off. Different contexts have different goals for this practice. Some weird and quacky, some not. It's not a simple subject.
fix'd

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 20:54:14 2011 No.2542345 >>2542295 To put it as a Vulcan would: embrace logic. Meditation is a mastery of passion and emotion. There is no way to see clearly with a cloud of emotions above your head.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 20:55:14 2011 No.2542357 PROTIP: Prayer is meditation. Western Civilization has always had a meditative element, quit thinking that just because it's Asian it is automatically better and unique.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 20:58:14 2011 No.2542373 >>2542357 Nah. Prayer is just wishing good things to happen to you / someone you care about. Maybe in some context it resembles meditation, but only vaguely. Meditation is about emptying your mind.

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:02:14 2011 No.2542397

>>2542373
No, prayer is emptying ones mind of all extraneous thoughts except, for example Christianity, the adoration one has for Christ.

Seriously, if one actually takes a minute and read some scholarly articles about prayer, meditation and prayer are almost entirely the same, just coming from two entirely different cultural background.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:04:14 2011 No.2542404 >>2542397 Additionally, Christianity has a specific discipline called meditation which is a type of prayer that emphasises total disconnection from the real world, instead of simple devotion.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:09:14 2011 No.2542428 >And tell me why is meditation not encouraged by the western civilization? Because it's not patented.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:11:14 2011 No.2542437 >>2542428 Our attention span is complete fail and we quit before we even start.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:12:14 2011 No.2542444 >>2542437 That's why you need to start again! Seriously, I went to a 10 day vipassana retreat once. I had not trouble doing 10 yours of meditation a day by day three.

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:16:14 2011 No.2542465
File: 91 KB, 750x600, internet-tough-guy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

This list is dildos

>3- It increases blood flow and slows the heart rate.
WTF?

Pseudoscience and snake oil salesmanship is not /sci/ material, this thread shouldn't exist

>>2541039
>Are you going to argument this or are you just going to act like a know-it-all?
Who taught you grammar?

>>2542112
Internet tough guy detected

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:17:14 2011 No.2542469 >>2542444 How did you know I stopped :O I was in it for a bit, some crazy stuff happened --

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:18:14 2011 No.2542474 File: 109 KB, 960x544, ascension.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2541483 Pic related, are you a wizard?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:18:14 2011 No.2542475 >>2542469 >How did you know I stopped :O My super secret meditation powers! >some crazy stuff happened -- That's my favorite part!

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:19:14 2011 No.2542480 >>2542465 >Ignore links to studies that show effects >Claim it's pseudo-science Sure is knee jerk pseudo-skepticism

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:21:14 2011 No.2542486

>>2542474

>An attempt to study the physiological effects of Tummo has been made by Benson and colleagues (Benson et al., 1982; Cromie, 2002) who studied Indo-Tibetan Yogis in the Himalayas and in India in the 1980s. In the first experiment, in Upper Dharamsala (India), Benson et al. (1982) found that these subjects exhibited the capacity to increase the temperature of their fingers and toes by as much as 8.3°C. In a 2002 experiment, conducted in Normandy (France), two monks from the Buddhist tradition wore sensors that recorded changes in heat production and metabolism (Cromie, 2002).

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:23:14 2011 No.2542497

> Who taught you grammar?
In my language that sentence formulation would be correct. I guess I just never used it in English so I never knew it was wrong. Even 4chan is good for something, eh.

Like I said earlier, English is not my native language so its OK for me to fuck up here and there.

I'd like to see you speak in my language, lol. We have something called a dual, which you would know nothing about. :)

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:24:14 2011 No.2542508 >>2542480 The article is pseudoscience, I have nothing against meditation but every one of those one hundred benefits was total crap >>2542486 Are you linking to the right post?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:26:14 2011 No.2542526 >>2542508 Sorry, must have missed a ctrl+v there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tummo

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:28:14 2011 No.2542536 >>2542508 There are other links in this thread

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:28:14 2011 No.2542537

>1- It lowers oxygen consumption.
Not a good thing.
>2- It decreases respiratory rate.
Not necessarily a good thing.
>3- It increases blood flow and slows the heart rate.
So does taking a bath or shooting heroin.
>4- Increases exercise tolerance.
[citation needed]
>5- Leads to a deeper level of physical relaxation.
Deeper than what? Misleading statement is misleading.
>6- Good for people with high blood pressure.
[citation needed]
>7- Reduces anxiety attacks by lowering the levels of blood lactate.
Genuine benefit.
>8- Decreases muscle tension
Not necessarily a good thing, and decreased tension from what previous state?
>9- Helps in chronic diseases like allergies, arthritis etc.
That's just wrong. Histamine response is in no way affected by meditation and frankly this misinformation can be dangerous.
>10- Reduces Pre-menstrual Syndrome symptoms.
Doubt it, but i dunno as I'm not a woman.
Next 10 coming soon.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:29:14 2011 No.2542546 >>2542508 >I have nothing against meditation but every one of those one hundred benefits was total crap Some of it was crap. Plenty was not. To exaggerate so absurdly, you probably do have something against meditation.

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:33:14 2011 No.2542565

Can people please stop being defensive and bitchy?

>>2542536
Posted that pic because the people in the show use biofeedback to ascend

>>2542537
>7- Reduces anxiety attacks by lowering the levels of blood lactate.
Lactate doesn't cause anxiety attacks
http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/cgi/reprint/36/1/69.pdf

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:33:14 2011 No.2542567

Meditation is self hypnosis. Today I learned hypnosis is anything that induces a deep state of relaxation. There is a little more to it than just relaxation, but you guys get the idea. I feel like the destructiveness of stress is greatly underestimated; however, as many know meditation isn't the only way to relax.

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:35:14 2011 No.2542581

>>2542546
How would they increase blood flow while slowing heart rate? I didn't even want to go past that one

If the authors had a shred of common sense or a single good editor, they would have caught such a mistake
Again, if half of it is crap, why should I read the other half (the authors are not credible anymore)

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:36:14 2011 No.2542584

>11- Helps in post-operative healing.
No, to say it eases pain is to say it depresses pain pathways in the brain or blocks sensory perception, either way it would be very dangerous if it had these effects.
>12- Enhances the immune system.
Nope.
>13- Reduces activity of viruses and emotional distress
How are two related? Either way, for some it may ease distress, but it does not kill viruses.
>14- Enhances energy, strength and vigour.
No, just no.
>15- Helps with weight loss
Giving time to reflect on why you want to not be a fucking fatass does help, but this can be done without meditation.
>16- Reduction of free radicals, less tissue damage
People toss around these terms, nobody ever knows what it means. Needless to say, it does neither.
>17- Higher skin resistance
One of the dumbest yet.
>18- Drop in cholesterol levels, lowers risk of cardiovascular disease.
Cholesterol isn't necessarily bad for one thing, second, it doesn't do this.
>19- Improved flow of air to the lungs resulting in easier breathing.
Do they just make this shit up? Seriously, from where do they infer this bullshit?
>20- Decreases the aging process.
By balancing the yin and yang forces. No problems here.

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:36:14 2011 No.2542591

>>2542537
Lol

That list is supposed to motivate you, not make you want to logically deduce every fucking thing off the list. Even if some things are logical fallacies that doesn't mean it shouldn't motivate people that are interested.

This topic is going exactly the way a DMT topic would go. People that never experience would boast about how it all makes perfect sense, and people who took it would stay quiet because they'd know that shit is not explainable with any reasoning or logic. Same goes for meditation. I'm a frequent meditator and I wouldn't start a debate about it with someone who isn't simply because WE HAVE NO BASIS ON WHICH TO DEBATE UPON. In case you didn't get it, please read the capsed text two or three times more.

You cannot understand what you've not experienced. /thread

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:38:14 2011 No.2542598 >>2542581 Vasodilation.

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:39:14 2011 No.2542607
File: 80 KB, 607x451, eel-7.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

How does lowering oxygen consumption count as a benifit.

"Hmmm, my brain needs oxygen to fucntion and I need oxygen to live. I know, I'll use less for no reason. What a great plan."

AND NO BENEFITS WERE HAD

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:39:14 2011 No.2542610 >>2542591 >You cannot understand what you've not experienced. That's not really true of everything, but of meditation it certainly is, because the way your mind works will change.

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:42:14 2011 No.2542622

>>2542591
I can understand something if the mechanism is explained, I just cannot experience it. Likewise, I cannot understand something if there is no mechanism for it's existence, because there is no instance of anything that exists without mechanism.
You're a creationist, aren't you?

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:43:14 2011 No.2542628

>>2542591
>Even if some things are logical fallacies that doesn't mean it shouldn't motivate people that are interested.
I'm sure you mean this in a different way than I'm reading it, but there's no essential difference between what you're saying now and "sure i'm wrong, but people should still listen to me". If there's some tangible reason people should want to meditate, you can state that rather than making up stuff to trick^H^H motivate people.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:44:14 2011 No.2542634 >>2542598 That would decrease blood flow >>2542591 >This topic is going exactly the way a DMT topic would go. Drugs? Drugs are scientifically proven to have an effect

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:45:14 2011 No.2542638 >>2542622 Whatever the mechanisms by which meditation may or may not work are, they are not well known due to lack of research on the subject. This does not mean that the results do not occur (not from that website, normal results).

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:46:14 2011 No.2542642 >>2542634 No, it wouldn't. In a dilated blood vessel blood can travel more quickly.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:47:14 2011 No.2542648 >>2542638 Russel's teapot. Until their is evidence making such outrageous claims about it's benefits just makes you look stupid. If meditation was so great, why don't REAL doctors recommend it?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:48:14 2011 No.2542653 >>2542642 Not if the heart is slowed as well, the heart contributes to the flow rate far more than vasodilation and constriction All you get is lowered flow and lowered blood pressure

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:50:14 2011 No.2542657

>>2542610
Yes, due to the lack of oxygen you brain will rot

>>2542591
Go to /x/ if you don't want to listen to logic and reason. This is a board for people who like science, not people who want to sit and bitch when other people start questioning the shit they say.

The list was made to motivate people to meditate.
If you saw an ad on tv trying to sell leeches you shove up your ass because, "They'll give you the power of flight" or some shit, you'd want to call em out on that. We're calling out New Age Nigel's shit here, because he's saying shit that is bad for you is good for you.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:51:14 2011 No.2542659 >>2542648 (a) Cultural Biases. (b) MDs have a very different scope of practice than what is addressed by meditation. (c) You're being an idiot.

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:51:14 2011 No.2542663

>>2542622
I'm not a creationist. I look at life very scientifically (that's one of the reasons I'm studying science) . But that doesn't mean that I agree with everything people teach me. I listen, but I make my own conclusions.

As far as my beliefs go, I believe in a shamanic description of the world. Anyone who had some very deep spiritual experience (even using entheogens or as you'd call them, psychedelics) would agree with me that this world we seem to be living in is a very (very (very)) narrow description of the 'real deal'.

> I can understand something if the mechanism is explained
That's just the problem of the western mindset that we're all a part of. As soon as something can't be explained using words and logic, it simply doesn't exist for us.

Before someone attacks my beliefs with his mumbo-jumbo thoughts, I'd like to just point out that we are simply energy. The way you perceive the world around you is not how it really looks like. That's divine recursion for you.

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 21:56:14 2011 No.2542679

>>2542663
>But that doesn't mean that I agree with everything people teach me.
Science everywhere is taught by using experimental examples, there is literally nothing you can do do "rebel" against an observation

>As soon as something can't be explained using words and logic, it simply doesn't exist for us.
When we find something new that challenges diction and logic, we invent new words and better theories to explain it

I think you've taken a hefty dose of new age poison
You are now useless to science except as a platform for experiments

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 22:01:14 2011 No.2542694 >I believe in a shamanic description of the world. brofist.jpg But it's pointless to talk about this on /sci/. Most of the people on this board who will enter threads like these just don't have the capacity to understand what you're talking about.

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 22:01:14 2011 No.2542696

>>2542679
:)

That's just it, isn't it. Our world is our words. The things we can't put in words don't exist for us.

And my scientific studies are deeply motivated by a sincere wish to evolve humanity. I usually keep my spiritual beliefs to myself, but you asked.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 22:03:14 2011 No.2542707 >>2542694 Well, it's good to know at least some of you do. :)

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 22:13:14 2011 No.2542741

When you meditate, you completely clear you mind of any and all thought. It's actually pretty difficult to keep a state like that.

It helps your mind sort itself out (like sleeping) but doing it also conditions you for great concentration, as you can focus your mind easier.

Also, I think meditating allows one to defend themselves better, as they can clear their minds and react faster (I assume).

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 22:16:14 2011 No.2542749 >>2542696 http://www.lyberty.com/encyc/articles/linguistic_fallacies.html tard >>2542694 you cant understand something which has no backing what youre talking about is faith, and no, i dont have any of that

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 22:17:14 2011 No.2542752 >>2542694 >Mysticism is 2deep4u! Trolls never change, do they?

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 22:24:14 2011 No.2542789

>>2542749
> what youre talking about is faith, and no, i dont have any of that
I'm not talking about faith, I'm talking about personal experience.

Let me make an example. I'll presume you have at one point in your life experienced a deep emotional clinging towards another person, known as love. Now imagine a person that's never experienced this. Maybe someone who spend their lives in an environment that just didn't give him/her the opportunity to do so. Or maybe a child, who never experienced this state of emotions. Now imagine explaining to them, what love feels like. No matter how hard you would try, they would never ever understand how it feels like, until they felt it for themselves. How do you put a feeling with that sort of magnitude into words?

That's how I feel about explaining the power of meditation or entheogenic plants to people who never experienced something of the sort. Since we have no basis on which we could understand each other, we simply couldn't agree upon it.

Also, calling me a tard, even if you're anonymous, isn't really nice, especially if you want me to take your responses seriously. Otherwise I could just do something else and not waste my time here any further.

Anonymous Tue Feb 15 22:24:14 2011 No.2542791

>>2542749
You could do the work yourself and understand it that way. Time was, there was no "backing" for people to understand electromagnetism by. But people who were actual scientists did the work themselves and developed the understanding, and made the backing. These days on /sci/, people like you only want to follow comprehensively supported peer-reviewed subjects where all the work has been done for you. Ok, that's fine, not everyone is cut out to think for themselves. But none of that makes your criticisms valid.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 22:26:14 2011 No.2542801 >>2540992 Where the fuck do you live that meditation is taboo?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 15 22:27:14 2011 No.2542806 >>2542789 I just realized the comment about faith wasn't directed at me. Well looks like I answered it anyway.

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