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/sci/ - Science & Math

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File: 52 KB, 973x1064, 889freewillvsdeterminism.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2528190 No.2528190 [Reply] [Original]

People arguing that quantum indeterminacy means we have free will makes me rage pretty hard.

Pic related.

>> No.2528250

Many worlds, unique "real me" / "soul" bound to a world but being able to bind to another compatible world the next second.
Not saying it's Truth, just fantasizing.

>> No.2528288

>>2528190
What annoys me is when they talk about free will in a scientific setting, as in it's something which is observable, but they don't define it sufficiently well as to offer non-trivial falsifiable predictions. It's quite annoying.

>> No.2528295

The determinism one should not have a puppeteer. The little guy should be tied up.

>> No.2528332

The puppeteer is representing fate (in a non mystical sense), not necessarily a mind.

>> No.2528356

People arguing that since Carl Sagan appeared in TV then evolution is true makes me rage pretty hard. Anybody can appear on TV but these dumb "evolutionists" are not getting it.

>> No.2528369

>>2528356
Que? I though evolution was real.

>> No.2528377

>>2528369
Evolution is true. Ignore the idiot and/or troll.

Also read Dawkins' The Greatest Show On Earth if you want to learn more about the evidence of why evolution is true.

>> No.2528383

>>2528377
Oh no I'm a biologist. I know its real.

>> No.2528390

Free will is actually made from freewillyntons. They use humans and animals as machines to influence the world with. Much like humans use pedals and wheel to control a car.

>> No.2528398

>>2528356

I seriously doubt that anyone has ever argued that. You may have seen people linking to an explanation of evolution he gave in Cosmos, but that's most likely because the people who attack evolution often have little to no understanding of it, and his explanation was good.

>> No.2528400

>>2528190
only the first one seems possible , I don't have thread on me.

>> No.2528401

>>2528390
Is there a free will antiparticle?

>> No.2528403

>>2528401
no

>> No.2528451

>>2528190
I get what it's showing, but the puppeteer thing is pretty misleading. With that said, the seizure one made me giggle.

>> No.2528464

BUT WHAT ABOUT SOULS

>> No.2528468

>>2528464
ok let's consider souls
would you explain what souls are?

>> No.2528471

yeah, there is no free will, i learned to deal with it

no fuck off

>> No.2528487

quantum indeterminacy doesnt mean we have free
but wave function collapse probably does

it`s just incorrect to get one part of q.m. and say smth like this about it - only whole system

>> No.2528553

COMPATIBABILISM MASTER RACE REPORT IN.

REPRESENTIN' MY MAIN MAN DAN "FUCKING" DENNET.

>> No.2528555

We are completely and utterly random. You would have to be an utter dipshit to think the behavior of every cell in our body was predetermined. For the universe to exist it has to be random.

>> No.2528560

>>2528468
Souls are collectives of freewillyntrons.

Animals usually don't have souls but it is theoretically possible. Animal brains are so driven by primal instincts, that freewillintrons can't really drive them. Thus it does not attract enough of them to form a soul. It is possible for some well organized collection of freewillintrons to temporarily move themselves into animal body though and some even knew how to control them. Native Americans used to do it all the time back in the day.

For some reason it is not done now any more. Don't know what happened.

>> No.2528578

>>2528464

WE HAVE A SOUL.

BUT IT'S MADE OF BILLIONS OF TINY ROBOTS.

>> No.2528608
File: 35 KB, 330x330, gokulol.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2528608

>>2528555

>he doesn't believe in causality

>> No.2528660

>>2528608
How could there have been causality when there was nothing before the universe?

>> No.2528662

>>2528660
fallacy of the false dichotomy

>> No.2528674
File: 37 KB, 496x381, 2375251_f496.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2528674

>>2528578
Organic robots.

>> No.2528681

>>2528662
Are you one of those "It's been here forever" types?

>> No.2528687

>>2528660

Well, why not? You only find that weird because you're a primate with intuitions evolves to deal with living on a flat plane dealing with medium-sized objects moving at medium speeds over very short amounts of time.

Not finding the idea philosophically pleasing doesn't really mean shit for how true it is.

>> No.2528692

>>2528660

If there's no such thing as causality, can I have your house?

>> No.2528699

>>2528681
No, I'm one of those types which says that the universe could have been causeless, and the rest of the universe could have causes.

The false dichotomy you presented was that everything has causes or nothing has causes.

Also, I don't know if the universe had a beginning, or has always existed.

>> No.2528718

there is some freedom - freedom of knowledge? but not only scientific knowledge
if u`ll discover that all is determinated you will be also determinated
if not u`ll discover that not - will have freedom

>> No.2528865

>>2528687
Please go read about verbs, nouns, dependent and independent clauses before you try to write something past the 3rd grade level.