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/sci/ - Science & Math

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2527971 No.2527971 [Reply] [Original]

Why do people say homosexuality is a mental condition and not a biological one?

I want to know for sure. Are people born gay or do they become it later in life?

>> No.2527978

>>2527977
In otherwords, you admit defeat.

>> No.2527977

>>2527971
I'd rather have some more formalized definitions for "mental condition" and "biological condition" before we continue this conversation.

>> No.2527984

>>2527977
>implying the countdown to genocide of all homosexual foetus' isnt fast approaching

>> No.2527980

It's not a condition.
>Are people born gay or do they become it later in life?
Both and neither. It's an <span class="math">interaction[/spoiler] between genetic and environmental factors (as almost always with complex behavioral traits such as sexual preference).

This thread can be removed now. You got your answer and I foresee a shitshorm if it stays open any longer (but maybe that was the point).

>> No.2527985

>>2527978
I didn't know you could lose a conversation

>> No.2527989

>>2527985
You backed out of the debate before it began thus admitting defeat. Deal with it, nigger.

>> No.2527990

>>2527980
>Both and neither.
lol science

Hey does god exist?

/sci/: yes and no, now i cleared this up remove thread plz

>/sci/

>> No.2527996

>>2527980
Great, but I would like a source.

>> No.2527998

>>>/tv/14554939

Sorry for the repost of lewis' thread on /tv/, guys.

>> No.2528001

gay is just a fetish like footfags,pedo,bondage,ext..

>> No.2528002

>>2527990
Don't confuse your lack of nuance with inaccuracy of the answer. Genetic- epigentic- and environmental factors all contribute to the development of a trait. It's not as clear cut as "lol born that way", or "lol choice" you moron.

>> No.2528004

>>2527996
>Great, but I would like a source.

GBH /NEW/ YOU RACIST

>> No.2528006

>>2527989
people must really hate you in real life if you turn every conversation into a debate, also note my name, its not Scientist

>> No.2528008

if its a biological one then basically it means the human evolution cycle has become retarded and failed.

but basically its a pyscological one as most gay people just decide they are gay basedon social and political ideals that fit in with thier idea of happiness and comfortablity.

etc

its complex psychology which but it not biological.

>> No.2528019

>>2527996
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21053405
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19961060

>> No.2528020

>>2528008
How did humanity fail?

>> No.2528024
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2528024

>>2527971
>Mental condition = Yes
It was called Gender Disorder Syndrome before it was remove from medical books
>Biological = Yes
If the boy was born with a significant amount of female hormones then he'll certainly become a faggot or a trap depending on his looks

Society also plays a role in shaping a person's gender orientation.

>> No.2528029

It's a mental condition you stupid propaganda fiend. It's what happens when you're taught through mysticism. If you're a homosexual, thank those who educated you in school, college and university - they're the cites of poison.

>> No.2528030

>>2528008
>if its a biological one then basically it means the human evolution cycle has become retarded and failed.
No, it doesn't. Not every trait is an adaptation.
>but basically its a pyscological one as most gay people just decide they are gay basedon social and political ideals that fit in with thier idea of happiness and comfortablity.
No, not every acquired characteristic is a choice.
>its complex psychology which but it not biological.
It's PART biology and PART environment. Goddamn people can be stupid on this board.

>> No.2528031

>>2528024
We're not discussing gender idnetity, you moronic moron.

We're discussing homosexuality.

Homosexuality was removed but GID wasn't.

>> No.2528034

>>2528024
>>2528029
So much retardism ;_; I weep for humanity.

>> No.2528039

>>2528029
Mysticism hates homosexuals, dunce.

>> No.2528042

>>2528004
>implying /new/ is a credible source.

>> No.2528046

So what the fuck is homosexuality?

Genetic or false?

>> No.2528049

>>2528046
neither

>> No.2528050

>>2528049
Then what is it?

>> No.2528052
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2528052

>>2528039
>>2528034
Tell me more, cyclops

>> No.2528058

>>2528050
Both

>> No.2528061

>>2528058
You said neither than both and now you look like a troll.

>> No.2528065

>>2528061
The guy who said both wasn't me. Read the thread if you want and answer.

>> No.2528067

>>2528061
The other guy isn't me.

As somebody already said "It's PART biology and PART environment"

>> No.2528072

>>2528065
In addition, see:
>>2527980
>>2528002
>>2528019

>> No.2528074

>>2528067
So are people born gay?

>> No.2528082

>>2528067
Yeah, that was me. The guy asked is it genetic or FALSE however. So in that case it would not be both, it would be neither. If the environment contributes to development of the trait, that would not imply it's false, whatever that means anyway.

>> No.2528084

Who the hell cares?

>> No.2528085

>>2528074
Not necessarily.

>> No.2528090

>>2528085
Elaborate?

>> No.2528093

>>2528090
see:
>>2527980
>>2528002
>>2528019

>> No.2528099

I don't know, and I do care (and don't understand why you wouldn't).
I can tell you for definite, however, that by the age of 3 I was a raging faggot, so I would guess there is some early developmental element rather than a social element.

>> No.2528102

They become gay later in life.

>> No.2528104

>>2528102
I dated a few girls, but then I came out the closet a year later and started dating guys.

I am confused on rather or not I was always gay and not know it or if I became gay.

>> No.2528106

>>2528102
Wait, weren't you the one who helped that tranny fag and now you're saying gay isn't right? Hypocrite.

>> No.2528108

>>2528102
ah, my old tripcode... i nostalgia'd hard.

>> No.2528109

It's certainly not a biological thing. They become gay after taking engineering classes or buying macs.
>sci-captcha otheduc <span class="math">\frac{μg}{ml}[/spoiler]

>> No.2528110

>>2528104
Both options are possible. We can't give you a clear answer without knowing your entire life's history, including hormone concentrations in the womb etc.

>> No.2528116

>>2528110
But how is it possible that I've became homosexual?

>> No.2528122

>>2528109
but why would anyone choose to buy a mac if they weren't already a mac fag?
being a macfag can't be a choice: if it was, then nobody would be one. Using macs is caused by the positive image given to apples and the usage of power macs from a young age.

>> No.2528129

>>2528116
Hormones or other factors can change over time.

>> No.2528132

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/03/birds-are-becoming-gay-fr_n_791541.html

>> No.2528135

>>2527998
If homosexuality occurs at birth, why does this thread say otherwise?

>> No.2528137

Are you people aware that cells can literally reprogram how they respond to stimulus? That's how addiction works. It's no too farfetched to imagine that sexual orientation could be "reprogrammed" by drugs

>> No.2528146

>>2528137
Do you realize how rare that occurs, brah?

>> No.2528149

I don't care, just fuck off an talk about science faget!

>> No.2528157

>>2528146
You mean constantly over the course of your life? Because your body is regulating how it expresses its genes all the time

>> No.2528163

>>2528149
>implying a cure for a disease isn't science.

Feck off faget.

>> No.2528179
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2528179

It's not a biological disorder, that's just an excuse to pick them for the gas chamber if the population gets to hot the handle.

>> No.2528186

>>2528179
Why do I always here about overpopulation and not colonization?

I want to live on Mars dammit!

>> No.2528187

>>2528129
does that mean that taking male hormones (like how trannies would) would make gay men straight? or at least more straight

>> No.2528194

Genes dont mean shit when people can choose to do whatever the hell they want to.

>> No.2528199

>>2528194
I can finally be asian?!

>> No.2528201

>>2528187
No, again, not necessarily. There are many more factors to consider.

>> No.2528206

Life is stupendously complex and does care about human's notions concerning what we should or shouldn't like.

>> No.2528211

Mental conditions ARE biological. Psychology is a branch of biology.

>> No.2528217

>>2528194
>implying your genes don't determine what things you can 'choose' to do

>> No.2528218

>>2528211
>mfw when biologists believe that

>> No.2528227

>>2528211
so When ur born dumb, ur sol, compared to those born genius. cuz education is fail?

>> No.2528232

>implying orientation has any more moral character than handedness

Finding out why and how people from all times and all places have fluid sexualities is an interesting question. But abnormality doesn't mean immorality.

>> No.2528236

>>2528227

Again in English please.

>>2528218

I'm a psychologist, and yes my discipline is a sub-set of biology. Find me a psychologist who disputes that.

>> No.2528239

>>2528199

If you could find someone to perform the surgery, why the fuck is it anybodies business but yours?

>> No.2528245

>>2528239

Surgery to make him have been born in Asia? Surgery to give him Asian genes?

>> No.2528243

>>2528236
>I'm a psychologist, and yes my discipline is a sub-set of biology. Find me a psychologist who disputes that.
~brofist~

>> No.2528256

>>2528245

Some hypothetical future treatment that makes a person indistinguishable from one born in Asia.

I know such a thing does not exist right now.

>> No.2528264

>>2528256
Nor will it exist.

>> No.2528269

>>2528264

You know this? You know that it is impossible to develop treatments that will change a persons appearance?

>> No.2528276

Behaviorists are robots. Cognitive Capable are gods.
Pansexuals show true mastery over their genitals!!

>> No.2528281

>>2528256

Indistinguishable from, fine. That's not what he asked for, tho.

>> No.2528284

>>2528264
Transhumanism. Have you not heard of it? It happens after the Singularity comes. Then everyone is immortal and you can download your brain on Brainbook.

>> No.2528291

>>2528236
>I'm a psychologist, and yes my discipline is a sub-set of biology. Find me a psychologist who disputes that.
Neuroscientist here, I dispute that. Not every field of psychology is a subfield of biology. The description of behavior doesn't necessarily have to involve biology. It is true that the more the field nears cognitive psychology the more biology is involved, but sociology is mostly concerned with the way humans interact on a group dynamics level.

Please not that I admit it's very well possible your field is a sub-field of biology. It depends on the field however.

>> No.2528302

>>2528291
Arguing with an expert in his field doesn't make your falsehood correct.
>>2528284
We're discussing science not science fiction.

>> No.2528305

>>2528281

He asked for Asian. If you mean that it would be impossible for a treatment to cause him, retroactively, to be born and raised in Asia or to an Asian family, then obviously that is not possible. If you mean if it is possible for him to learn some Asian language and culture, then that is already possible given time and effort. But if we are talking about a person wanting to look in the mirror and see an Asian, and for people to see an Asian when they look at them, then I see no reason to think that medical science will not advance to that stage, a level where a person can pretty much have whatever body they want, at some point.

>> No.2528313

>>2528302
>Arguing with an expert in his field doesn't make your falsehood correct.
Let's hear an actual argument. I'm an expert in my field as well.

>> No.2528314

>>2528291
Cognitive skills have more to do with philosophy than biology. lol

>> No.2528315

>>2528314
No, I disagree with that as well.

>> No.2528318

>>2528291

Human behavior is the result of the activities of the brain, a wholly physical system.

It's a given that currently it's more useful to study the field of human behavior using some degree of abstraction, because we don't quite understand how all the biology matches up with all the behavior, but it is ultimately biology. Which is ultimately chemistry. Which is ultimately physics. Which is possibly ultimately just maths.

>> No.2528322

>>2528318
>Which is possibly ultimately just maths.
I really hate when this comes up. You're right on the rest of it, but physics is not applied math. Physics is science. Math is not science. Proofs in physics are proofs done by evidence. There is no evidence in math proofs.

>> No.2528328

>>2528318
In that sense I would agree, but that would mean psychology (fields like sociology are meant here) is a subfield of biology only in a principle sense, and not a practical one. Like you said, it would also be a subfield of physics.

>> No.2528331

>>2528322

I did qualify it with 'possibly'. I just mean that a lot of science has to be done with a degree of abstraction, this is obvious in the messier sciences like biology or psychology, but could also be true of physics as well.

>> No.2528339

>>2528328

In the principle sense of, we don't yet have all the links between the two but we at least know there is nothing going on in psychology that isn't just horrendously complicated biology.

>> No.2528333

>>2528331
>used the word possibly
Indeed, and I still hate whenever it's brought up.

>> No.2528336

>>2528291

All sciences are fuzzy at the edges, but psych is pretty solidly based on biology. As my tutor explained it, if you study a neuron, thats neuroscience. Study two neurons, and thats psych.

Sociology is its own discipline, and yes they tend to ignore biological (or psychological) causes for the things they study which I personally find to be a weakness of that discipline.