DMT: The Spirit Molecule

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DMT: The Spirit Molecule Anonymous Sat Feb 12 17:52:53 2011 No.2524152 [Reply] [Original]

Hey /sci/

Going to stream a documentary called 'DMT: The Spirit Molecule' - it's about one of the most potent, powerful, and mysterious hallucinogenic compounds that we know of, and it's produced in our very own brain.

Figured some of you may find it interesting - there are a few instances of some people with ideas that are a little more out there, but for the most part they speak to scientists and mathemeticians with some very thoughtful things to say.

I've never used justin.tv before (Livestream is giving me problems) so I'll have to see how it works out. Will start the stream once 3 or 4 people have joined.

http://www.justin.tv/adam1927#/w/858887136

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 17:57:53 2011 No.2524187 File: 14 KB, 640x381, thegreatdebate.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] That fell off the first page pretty quickly. I'll just give this a couple of bumps before I let it die.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:00:53 2011 No.2524208 >DMT >Being made in the Human Brain Nope

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:02:53 2011 No.2524222 fail

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:02:53 2011 No.2524223 bump

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:05:53 2011 No.2524235 >>2524208 Maybe that's incorrect, but it is at least endogenous to the human body.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:05:53 2011 No.2524236

DMT is creates an experience so incomprehensible and beautiful that it could change the world into a harmonious paradise.

That said, it's so powerful that we might not be ready to accept it. We hardly know anything about its wonders.

That said, this documentary is shit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:07:53 2011 No.2524250 >>2524208 definitely in the human brain and definitely made there

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:09:53 2011 No.2524255 >>2524236 bro thats soooo deep maaan

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:11:53 2011 No.2524268 >>2524236 What specifically don't/didn't you like about it? I think the most interesteing part is when the people talk about their actual experiences.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:13:53 2011 No.2524278

>>2524255
DMT isn't marijuana, or even acid or shrooms, not even remotely close.

I can tell you've never tried DMT if you think it fits into the stereotypical pseudo-enlightenment theme of drugs. In fact I can't even describe it properly without using ambiguous terms such as "beautiful" or "connectedness". It's that and much, much more, "bro".

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:15:53 2011 No.2524288

>one of the most potent, powerful, and mysterious hallucinogenic compounds that we know of
>potent
Nope, active at 5 mg is not potent by most definitions.
>powerful
Maybe, but not nearly as powerful as salvia or herkinorin.
>mysterious
Nope, just a typical non-selective 5-HT agonist with actions at sigma.
>it's produced in our very own brain
[citation needed]. Even Strassman, the idiot who wrote that book, hypothesized that DMT was made in the pineal, which isn't even part of the brain.
>but for the most part they speak to scientists and mathemeticians with some very thoughtful things to say
They speak to how 15-year-old potheads imagine scientists and mathematicians to be.
When I get around to it I'm gonna write a satire of this called GHB: The Bro Molecule.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:16:53 2011 No.2524291 >>2524278 everyone's done DMT lots of times, most people are just very well conditioned, at the physiological level even, to deny and forget these experiences

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:18:53 2011 No.2524303 >>2524255 Best not to talk about things you don't even have a remote understanding of, otherwise you end up making what you think to be a clever quip like that and instead just appear terribly naive.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:18:53 2011 No.2524307 >>2524288 no actually this idiot has never done DMT

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:21:53 2011 No.2524319 Meh, an unimpressive two member ring with an aminated hydrocarbon tail. wow.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:22:53 2011 No.2524323

>>2524307
And you've obviously never been enlightened by GHB man. Did you know that every night when you dream GHB is produced in your very own testicles where it dies for your sins granting you eternal peace in heaven[1]?

[1] Bromacopia: First Edition, (broscience incorporated)

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:23:53 2011 No.2524328

>>2524288

>Nope, active at 5 mg is not potent by most definitions.

po·tent/ˈpōtnt/Adjective
1. Having great power, influence, or effect.

>Maybe, but not nearly as powerful as salvia or herkinorin.

Many people would dispute that salvia is any 'more powerful' than DMT - they are equally disorienting and foreign, and many people will subjectively find one more or less intence than the other - it's all a matter of perspective.

>ope, just a typical non-selective 5-HT agonist with actions at sigma.

Again, depends on your perspective. I'd say the mysteriousness of it comes from its presence in wide range of organisms and its unknown purpose or function.

>[citation needed]. Even Strassman, the idiot who wrote that book, hypothesized that DMT was made in the pineal, which isn't even part of the brain.

It's still endogenous to the human body and to many other mammals and even non-mammals. Produced by the brain or not, it is produced by the body in some sense.

It's okay - some people are just contrarians by nature.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:28:53 2011 No.2524355

>>2524328

dude, that kid is clearly a 16 yr old, that is googling drugs to buy off the internet

he mentions opioid agonists, from shitvia, but doesn't know about fentanyl and its more powerful derivative?

then he also thinks it works at serotonin receptors, which is idiocy, because fucking every drug, most prescription psyche meds too, bind here, and it binds with such low affinity compared to its other receptor affinities this is trivial.

third DMT is taken up into neurons very rapidly and released like a normal neurtransmitter, so it acts through actual neural pathways instead of just flooding the brain, like essentially every other drug, and thats the real difference brocephius

and btw, i've done more GHB than you've looked at in pictures on erowid

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:29:53 2011 No.2524357

>>2524328
>po·tent/ˈpōtnt/Adjective 1. Having great power, influence, or effect.
Not the medical definition, which is less subjective, derp.
>Many people would dispute that salvia is any 'more powerful' than DMT - they are equally disorienting and foreign, and many people will subjectively find one more or less intence than the other - it's all a matter of perspective.
Many people dispute that evolution is real (in b4 trolls). People are just dumb.
>Again, depends on your perspective. I'd say the mysteriousness of it comes from its presence in wide range of organisms and its unknown purpose or function.
Unknown function? It's a byproduct of N-methyltransferase actions on indolic compounds. Any organism that utilizes L-tryptophan is likely to have the potential to reate DMT with a little genetic mutation. It isn't exactly rocket surgery.
>It's still endogenous to the human body and to many other mammals and even non-mammals. Produced by the brain or not, it is produced by the body in some sense.
And so is GHB: The Bro Molecule.
>It's okay - some people are just contrarians by nature.
>hypocrisy TO THE MAX

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:34:53 2011 No.2524383
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>>2524268
I'll attempt to describe my DMT experience.

Taking in the first hit, it feels harsh on the lungs, and it takes some mental fortitude to sit back and keep it in your lungs. Within SECONDS your heart rate is increasing, and it feels like you are taking off on a spaceship shuttle into a higher dimension. At first, this was frightening, it's unimaginably more intense than even a heavy dose of mushrooms. I exhaled the smoke and at that point I started to panic because I felt like I haven't breathed in hours and my body was telling me that I was going to die (since the distortion of time made my brain think I really wasn't breathing). But I remembered what I was told before the experience, to breathe deeply and meditate. So I take the slowest breathes I've ever taken, and each breath turns into a pulsing of energy, and it feels so good and natural and my entire body is working as one entity breathing in and out.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:35:53 2011 No.2524388

>>2524355
Take biochem 101 then try to argue.
>he mentions opioid agonists, from shitvia, but doesn't know about fentanyl and its more powerful derivative?
Kappa opioid is very different from delta and micro. Lrn2 peptides. Also fentanyl is shitty, non-euphoric, neurotoxicand easy to overdose.
>then he also thinks it works at serotonin receptors, which is idiocy, because fucking every drug, most prescription psyche meds too, bind here, and it binds with such low affinity compared to its other receptor affinities this is trivial.
Theres a difference between the receptor and reuptake site. Lrn2 neuron/glia. Are you also trying to say it doesn't bind to 5-HT, because that's just fucking retarded to anyone with any knowledge of organic chemistry.
>third DMT is taken up into neurons very rapidly and released like a normal neurtransmitter, so it acts through actual neural pathways instead of just flooding the brain, like essentially every other drug, and thats the real difference brocephius
Wrong, just wrong. Too bored to bother explaining this one to you.
>in b4 >implying you don't just know i'm right
>and btw, i've done more GHB than you've looked at in pictures on erowid
Cool story, bromethius.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:35:53 2011 No.2524389
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>>2524383
cont..

I relax more (at this point it's been about 30-40 seconds) and my existential crisis of dying is fading away and the intensely quick ego-loss that felt like a shuttle taking off is also coming to an end. At this point I have arrived at a beautiful revelation that I AM experiencing life, uninhibited by all the mental walls that black my ability to perceive the true patterns of the universe. My vision is filled with extremely vibrant colors (for me it was purple/green/pink, happy colors, perhaps because I consider myself a happy individual at heart), and a kaleidascope of geometric patterns are flowing in front of me. I have completely lost my sense of "ego" that was the kid sitting in a chair taking a hit of DMT. I don't feel like I'm sitting anymore or even "there", I am just experiencing feelings and images such as extremely elegant fractals (pic related). It feels like I am not separate from anything or anyone, that the universe is all "one" (hippies are onto something after all). The patterns I see are taking shape with surprising ease and controlled by my imagination. Swirling dragons and galloping horses take a fleeting shape across the flowing fractals. It feels timeless and blissful.

(there is much more but I this is the gist of it. I also apologize for my horrendous writing, EE major here)

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:35:53 2011 No.2524393 >>2524288 >>2524357 and yet you have said nothing about the actual effects of dmt

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:37:53 2011 No.2524405 >>2524393 Indifferent. Like you couldn't infer that from my posts?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:37:53 2011 No.2524408 >>2524383 im not impressed

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:37:53 2011 No.2524413 >>2524393 he's a 16 yr old on wiki's and erowid....give him a break, he's trolling pretty hard considering

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:38:53 2011 No.2524414 DMT is not made in the human brain. That documentary is rife with scientific inaccuracies. It's like What The Bleep Do We Know with drugs.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:38:53 2011 No.2524416 >>2524413 >dat ad hominem

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:38:53 2011 No.2524417 >>2524389 you call anything ''the universe real patterns'' fucking hippies

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:38:53 2011 No.2524418 DMT? pussys, 5-MeO-DMT is where it's at.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:40:53 2011 No.2524429 GET THE FUCK OUT OF /sci/ YOU PSEUDO-INTELLECTUAL FUCKS

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:40:53 2011 No.2524430 >>2524418 5-MeO-DMT? Too pussy to IV bufotenin into your tear duct like a real man?

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:41:53 2011 No.2524438

>>2524357

>Not the medical definition, which is less subjective, derp.

Okay? I wasn't using it in its medical sense. Your fault of interpretation, not mine.

>Many people dispute that evolution is real (in b4 trolls). People are just dumb.

That's not an appropriate comparison. Drugs have largely subjective effects and different people will experience radically different effect from the sam substance. DMT is generally considered just as intense as salvia, if not moreso.

>Unknown function? It's a byproduct of N-methyltransferase actions on indolic compounds. Any organism that utilizes L-tryptophan is likely to have the potential to reate DMT with a little genetic mutation. It isn't exactly rocket surgery.

You haven't described its function.

>And so is GHB: The Bro Molecule.

GHB experiences generally aren't considered transcendent/ineffable/mystical.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:43:53 2011 No.2524445 >>2524208 Yes, it is. It's a byproduct of serotonin metabolism, which occurs in the brain.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:43:53 2011 No.2524446 >>2524430 You twat, I actually felt a needle.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:44:53 2011 No.2524449 >>2524430 >doesn't IV into his jugular I thought there were no girls on the internet.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:45:53 2011 No.2524450 >>2524445 you have no clue what the by-product means do you?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:46:53 2011 No.2524453 File: 31 KB, 510x385, umad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2524414 >>2524417 >>2524429 Why don't you just listen and respond thoughtfully to what other people have to say instead of getting so needlessly angry and hostile?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:46:53 2011 No.2524456 >>2524449 >doesn't inject interarteially only pussies send drugs back to the heart to get all diluted before hitting the brain

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:48:53 2011 No.2524463

>>2524417
Think for a moment how you perceive things. You knock on your table and its solid. Why do you perceive it to be solid instead of a conglomerate of atoms or energy? How are you able to tell the difference between solid and air? You see it as a solid because you've evolved to see patterns that help you survive in your environment. You are only perceiving the properties that are relevant to you, and this perception is inherently distorted.

Now take this a step further back. You see yourself as different from other people. "You" and "them" are different entities, but why have you made this distinction? It is evolutionarily relevant to think in these terms. But everything is acting together as one entity.

Making the analogy between ants and humans. Each ant has its own fulfilling life and purpose, but it doesn't know that its purpose is an illusion and it actually fulfills a greater goal: helping the entire ant colony to survive. You could think of the entire colony as one entity working for itself instead of its "separate" parts.

My point is, I believe DMT, at least to an extent, helps free ourselves from the mental prison of an ego developed from our instinctual animalistic ape evolved mentality. Fractals and the experiences of DMT aren't what the universe "truly" is, but it may be a much better perception and representation of the universe than our primitive ones.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:48:53 2011 No.2524465

>>2524438
>Okay? I wasn't using it in its medical sense. Your fault of interpretation, not mine.
Then don't try to make an objective post relying heavily on your own subjective experience.
Again, it's not rocket science.
>That's not an appropriate comparison. Drugs have largely subjective effects and different people will experience radically different effect from the sam substance.
It's totally appropriate. You can say that they are two radically different subjects, but they really aren't and the conclusion I made is totally valid in this context or any other.
>DMT is generally considered just as intense as salvia, if not moreso.
Not really, no.
>You haven't described its function.
Yes I did, I implied it had no function as it's just a byproduct. In physiological amount is regulates sigma to an extent in humans, but this is a result of having DMT in our brains rather than it being developed by the body for that purpose. Get it?
>GHB experiences generally aren't considered transcendent/ineffable/mystical.
That's irrelevant, but just for the sake of making you look dumb:
> Drugs have largely subjective effects and different people will experience radically different effect from the sam substance.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:50:53 2011 No.2524469 >>2524445 >he thinks serotonin is used mostly in the brain >laughinggirls.jpeg

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:50:53 2011 No.2524470 >>2524456 >doesn't do a spinal tap to directly inject the drug into his brain 10231782003.pgn

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:51:53 2011 No.2524476 >>2524456 >he doesn't inject intracranially What are, a commie?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:52:53 2011 No.2524477 damn why is 4chan so fucking full of hippies

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:52:53 2011 No.2524479 >>2524470 > pussies out of truly experiencing "death" by taking drugs instead of blowing your brains out 010001010110101010111011010101010111010101011111010101010

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:52:53 2011 No.2524481

>>2524450

Various chemicals react to one another and combine to produce new chemicals. One of the chemical steps of serotonin production is DMT. Some amount of DMT from this metabolism is always in your brain, as well as the rest of your body.

Granted it's very small, but it's there.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:53:53 2011 No.2524485 >>2524463 Ever thought of going into politics? I've never seen so little said in so many words.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:54:53 2011 No.2524487 >>2524469 You sure are assuming a great deal there, chief.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:54:53 2011 No.2524491 >>2524477 > why is /sci/ full of close minded dumbshits that are more stubborn than creationists I guess you haven't realized that science is about discovery, and discovery requires being open minded

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:56:53 2011 No.2524494 >>2524491 open minded != fucking hippie

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:56:53 2011 No.2524498 >>2524491 I don't see how seeing weird things like a weird dream is something I would like to experience

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:58:53 2011 No.2524505 >>2524498 maybe because life is a "weird dream". Conscious experience (or qualia as some say) may be the only thing we can truly know we have. Why not explore the unknown? Isn't that what scientists do?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 18:59:53 2011 No.2524511 >>2524505 because your arguing with a 16 yr old erowid-tard

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:01:53 2011 No.2524515 File: 32 KB, 722x420, Drug_danger_and_dependence.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Took this off the wiki page for LSD. Why is Nicotine and Caffeine legal while LSD has both a smaller dependence potential and active dose?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:02:53 2011 No.2524518 DMT threads will now replace the religion vs science debate. LET THE TROLLING BEGIN

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:02:53 2011 No.2524520 >>2524505 Because I prefer not to touch my brain, like the computer rule says ''if something works, better don't touch it'' only if I knew it is truly safe

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:02:53 2011 No.2524524

>>2524465

>Then don't try to make an objective post relying heavily on your own subjective experience.

I was making an "objective post"? News to me, dude. I just used the word potent in its typical sense - THAT'S what isn't rocket science and you should probably stop dwelling on it.

>It's totally appropriate.

See, YOU'RE the one making an objective claim about salvia being an more powerful/intense/whatever experience - how exactly do you measure what is and isn't intense and what is and isn't intense for a particular person? I can find thousands of people who would testify to DMT being the more "intense" drug - I can probably find just as many who would argue that salvia is in fact "more intense" - fact is, they're both really fucking intense and its impossible to objectively judge which is moreso. Maybe it could be done if you substituted nicotine for salvia, though.

>Not really, no.

Yes really, yes.

>Yes I did, I implied it had no function as it's just a byproduct.

And I would argue that the fact that it has such profound effects that are often so similar to what people typically experience during a spontaneous mystical experience or one brought about by fasting/meditiation/sleep depravation/ritual dance/drumming or any combination of the above suggests that it does have a function. WHY do we as humans have a capacity to experence these kind of "beyond-the-self" inarticulable experiences?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:03:53 2011 No.2524525 >>2524515 Because money and ignorance.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:03:53 2011 No.2524530

>>2524524

>That's irrelevant, but just for the sake of making you look dumb:

I don't think you've accomplished that dude, but of course things look very different from the outside looking in than they do from the inside looking out, don't they?

Notice I said "generally".

Take a sample of 1000 GHB experiences and 1000 DMT experiences - the percentage of participants who describe a DMT experience as transcendent/mystical/life-changing will be obscenely higher than the percentage of people who describe their GHB experience as such - doesn't mean it will always happen, it just means its typical.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:04:53 2011 No.2524533 >>2524515 Because neither caffeine nor nicotine has ever caused anyone to think they can fly and jump off a building and die. That is inevitably what happens at least once in a country before they make LSD illegal.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:05:53 2011 No.2524537 letal dose != effects on the brain health

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:05:53 2011 No.2524538

>>2524520
> I prefer not to touch my brain
> ingests unnatural processed chemicals on a daily basis in all your food

DMT is natural and relatively harmless (except at insane doses). I assure you the food you eat is taking a much worse toll on your body/brain.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:06:53 2011 No.2524541 >>2524520 HAHAHAHAHAHAHA FUCKING PUSSY

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:07:53 2011 No.2524543 >>2524533 You're right, the millions of deaths from cigarettes really outweigh the darwinian award drunken idiot on acid falling off of a balcony.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:07:53 2011 No.2524544 >>2524533 Compared to the millions that slowly and painfully die every year from smoking?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:07:53 2011 No.2524546 >>2524538 convince me then, I don't take psychoactive things in my food

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:08:53 2011 No.2524552 >>2524543 >>2524544 Big tobacco mind

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:10:53 2011 No.2524561

>>2524546
> I don't take psychoactive things in my food
Yes you do, you are just less aware of the effects because they are gradual and constant.

> convince me then
1) Do some research on mushrooms. Obtain about 2-3 grams and eat them in your privacy (a house, apt, or in nature where no one is around to bother you).
2) Be convinced.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:12:53 2011 No.2524566
File: 147 KB, 1000x658, inspace.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Also, starting the documentary again from the beginning because somebody came late to the party.

if anybody else still wants to see it..

http://www.justin.tv/adam1927#/w/858887136
http://www.justin.tv/adam1927#/w/858887136
http://www.justin.tv/adam1927#/w/858887136

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:12:53 2011 No.2524567

I don't mind psychedelic drugs. I have taken several different ones and have always enjoyed the experience.

What I do mind, however, is all the "HURR MAN LSD/DMT/SHROOMS WILL OPEN YOU UP TO THE COSMIC REALM AND TOTALLY CHANGE YOUR LIFE MAN IT'S SO ENLIGHTENING YOU'LL NEVER BE THE SAME" faggots. Psychedelics make your brain act a little funny for a while and nothing more. There is nothing inherently spiritual about the experience. The chemical just activates the parts of your brain that make you think it is.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:13:53 2011 No.2524572 >>2524561 ok very well, but I still not interested in mind travels

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:13:53 2011 No.2524574 This thread is just silly. Can't pro-drug guys just do their drugs, and can't the anti-drug guys just not do drugs?

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:14:53 2011 No.2524581

>>2524546

sugar, caffeine, amino acids in soy sauce and numerous other foods, this list goes on

dude, television has profound effects on neural activity well beyond any other activity(it is actually decreasing activity to be on par with a coma)

lots of shit you do effects your brain...deal with it

inb4"i can't get addicted to sugar or TV"

oh yea? try going a week without any refined sugar or white flour or potatos and TV, then get back to me

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:16:53 2011 No.2524587 >>2524567 get a clue, all spiritual experiences are just a few chemicals lighting up those specific parts of your brain....and DMT lights up the parts that most highly correspond to non drug induced spiritual experiences

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:16:53 2011 No.2524589

>>2524572
It's difficult to describe because it's an experience, and that's the only way to "know" something, is to experience it yourself. I have introduced several friends to trip (even if it is only once), and each one of them has thanked me for their better perception of life. It's not something you do often and its not addictive, but it's an experience that is worthwhile (and has benefited millions of people for thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of years). But if you don't want to, then you shouldn't.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:18:53 2011 No.2524593 >>2524587 >all spiritual experiences are just a few chemicals lighting up those specific parts of your brain No shit, Sherlock. To imply anything else would mean you believe in dualism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:18:53 2011 No.2524594 >>2524589 better perception? how?

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:19:53 2011 No.2524601

>>2524533

>>Because neither caffeine nor nicotine has ever caused anyone to think they can fly and jump off a building and die

There's no recorded case of someone on LSD or any psychedelic jumping from a building. All claims of such were merely based on someone who used LSD at some point, and someone investigating the case/loved ones blaming the drug.

And LSD was made illegal by a UN bill in the 70's. LSD literally was only banned because ignorants who knew nothing about it put it's name on the paper.

This isn't to say that people on LSD have never done dangerous things, but there's no recorded cases of it which indicates it's a very rare occurrence. Most of the time, trippers spend curled up in a ball in their own little worlds.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:24:53 2011 No.2524619

>>2524574

No because the pro-drug people will go to prison/jail. Thus they feel a strong desire to convince others of the harmlessness of their activities, so that their drugs will be made legal and they can do them in peace.

They argue not out of some juvenile desire to make other people agree with them, but because as things stand they face very real oppression.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:26:53 2011 No.2524626

>>2524524
>And I would argue that the fact that it has such profound effects that are often so similar to what people typically experience during a spontaneous mystical experience or one brought about by fasting/meditiation/sleep depravation/ritual dance/drumming or any combination of the above suggests that it does have a function. WHY do we as humans have a capacity to experence these kind of "beyond-the-self" inarticulable experiences?

Just because you give great meaning to "beyond-the-self inarticulable experiences" doesn't mean they're anything special. Those experiences are simply your body's reaction to a chemical.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:27:53 2011 No.2524630

>>2524594
Again, it's hard to describe because it's an experience and is heavily dependent on the person taking them. For example, a female friend of mine who took them for the first time finally resolved her emotionally damaging childhood where she was abused by her father. She ended up finally being able to apologize to him and coming to terms with her fears, which led her to lead a much happier life. We all have our own conflicts in our lives and psychedelics can really help us find ourselves.

If you look up MAPS (multidisciplinary association for psychelic studies), they are talking proving the beneficial effects of psychedelics clinically and experimentally to help people.

PTSD is one example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYidpI1eMss

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:31:53 2011 No.2524651 >>2524626 they're special because how else you gonna get them? most people wouldn't try for near-death life gambling

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:35:53 2011 No.2524671 Where can I get LSD?

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:38:53 2011 No.2524690

>>2524671

Only real way is to network - ask your friends and your dealer (if you have one.) - other than that, you can try asking around a raves and music festivals, and if you're really desperate, college campuses. Just be smart with who you approach.

There are certain services that offer it through the mail - you won't find them through a simple google search, though. PROTIP: use full chemical names and use safeorscam.com to verify that the seller is legit.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:39:53 2011 No.2524699

>>2524601
>mfw you actually believe that
http://www.ktvu.com/news/22402339/detail.html

Every instance of it being banned, whether in the US or European countries was shortly after similar instances. I don't know whose butt you're pulling "no recorded case" from.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:40:53 2011 No.2524705 >>2524593 >implying realistic monism doesn't exist. >implying materialism isn't laughably flawed.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:42:53 2011 No.2524715 >>2524705 Lemme get the evidence for your claim. There isn't any? Well, shut the fuck up then.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:45:53 2011 No.2524741

>>2524626

>Those experiences are simply your body's reaction to a chemical.

Yes - your entire sensory and perceptual reality are regulated by chemicals - the consistency with which these experiences are desribed as profound and transcendent warrants investigation.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:49:53 2011 No.2524769

>>2524699

>unwittingly ate food containing LSD

Not that LSD doesn't have the potential to be harmful - it does - but this potential is so much smaller than something like heroin or nicotine that it's laughable that one is illegal and the other is not.

Make sure there's no history of mental illness in your family - take mind of SET and SETTING, and have a trip sitter - congrats, LSD is now infinitely safe to ingest that nicotine or heroin or crack or meth.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:50:53 2011 No.2524782 >>2524769 People go insane because of LSD you know

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:53:53 2011 No.2524797

>>2524782

Yeah I know, and millions of people have died from smoking ciggarettes.

I would never claim that LSD is harmless, but it has the potential to be an extremely positive experience, and is for the majority of people that take it.

It has a 50% success rate of treating alcoholism, for example.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:56:53 2011 No.2524812 >>2524782 lsd will not chemically alter the brain into inanity. if a person had a prexisting mental condition, the drug may certainly bring it to light - it amplifies what is already there, nothing more.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:58:53 2011 No.2524821

>>2524797

surely you realize how counter-productive to the whole economy it would be if people took ten cents worth of LSD and then stopped spending 25% of their paychecks on alcohol? and all the lost doctor and hospital jobs treating those people over the course of their lives for alcohol related accidents and long-term organ damage?

why are hippies always so damn counter-productive?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 19:59:53 2011 No.2524825 >>2524288 >strassmann >idiot lol, how many publications do you have?

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 20:20:53 2011 No.2524933

>>2524797
Cigarettes take 50 years to kill you. No legislature cares (or should anyway) about something that take 50 years to kill you. When someone's kid thinks he can fly and dies, legislatures want to do something about that, especially when there are no demonstrated therapeutic uses for it. It doesn't matter that it's a rare event. Just like "megan's law" or something like that, legislation gets based on singular events that resonate with the public. You CANNOT have a democracy and not have that happen. Voters are not rational and never will be.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 21:12:53 2011 No.2525260

>>2524933

>especially when there are no demonstrated therapeutic uses for it

That's simply false, though. As already stated, LSD can treat alcoholism - psilocybin can treat cluster headaches - iboga is wildly effective at treating most substance addiction in general, but most notably opiate addiction. Most any psychedelic can be incredibly useful for treating anxiety in the terminally ill.

The point is that these substances DO have legitimate theraputic uses and uses that stretch far beyond that - they can be tools of existential healing - that's why many of these substances have a ritualistic use in many cultures and are used as a sacrament, and not simply a method of getting "high". Often times the physical purge of things like mescaline containing cacti, ayahusca, and psilocybin mushrooms is seen as an integral part of the experience - it is completely different from the Western tradition of distilling, isolating, and potentiating a single chemical.

Our society has it completely ass-backwards - we're a society of alcohol abusers, chain-smokers, and caffeine addicts, and our fundmanetal misunderstanding of what a drug is - and the negative connotation that is inherent in the word 'drug' itself is at the root of our problem. As of now, it looks as though this kneejerk reaction to "drugs" will never be overcome - we will instead enjoy a glass of whiskey in front of the television after eating a a twinky and taking an aspirin before bed - in other words, we will remain idle, complacent, and unaware of our own hypocrisy.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 21:14:53 2011 No.2525271 >>2524821 cool broken window fallacy

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 21:17:53 2011 No.2525292 >>2525260 The only therapeutic claim that is well established so far is using very small LSD doses for migraines. But that wasn't established at the time the drug was scheduled, and it is still not a mainstream treatment.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 21:20:53 2011 No.2525304

Entheogens just lend you the energy required for your assemblage point to shift. Also, they take care of you while the point is misaligned (if they wouldn't, you would just die because you are far too weak to handle this sort of energy).

Drugs are, however, not the right way. You should acquire your own energy for the journey. You can replenish your energy with meditation.

The real secrets lie within.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 22:02:53 2011 No.2525528

>>2525292

You're partly right - the reason these things are not firmly established is because research with these chemicals is generally not even allowed to be conducted - the studies that have been done using hallucinogens as treatments for anxiety in the terminally-ill, alcoholism, and other substance addiction are all very promising though, and it simply seems intuitive that these kind of side-effects should be expected - the very nature of these drugs is very often transformative.

Iboga being an effective treatment for opiatre addiction is actually very well documented, though - I'm sure you've heard of ibogaine.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 22:12:53 2011 No.2525573

>>2525304

These states can be achieved without the ingestion of any foreign substance, but that doesn't mean using them to reach these states of consciousness is "not the right way."

They are simply shortcuts - it's much simpler for somebody to take a tab of LSD or eat a few grams of mushrooms and have this kind of experience (and realise they have always had the potential for this kind of experience) than to study meditation or yoga or Zen Buddhism for years and years - often these kind of substances will cause one to actively seek out the above. Sure, there seems to be something inherently more valuable in exercising complete control over one's own mind and body and inducing these kind of states through sheer will alone, but that doesn't mean ingesting chemicals is the wrong way to go about it either.

Any way you look at it, every experience is a "drug" experience because the entirety of out perception is regulated by these kind of chemicals substances.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 22:21:53 2011 No.2525619 >>2525573 The problem with any drug is that there's always a payoff. You might not notice it, but it's there. You're essentially exchanging energy with a foreign entity.

Anonymous Sun Feb 13 01:52:53 2011 No.2526824
File: 232 KB, 600x400, lao-tzu-field1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>2525619

But what makes this "exchanging of energy with a foreign entity" wrong in and of itself?

There is no such thing as a truly foreign entity - everything is the same Thing - just different forms of this One Thing.

"Tao can be talked about, but not the Eternal Tao
Names can be named, but not the Eternal Name.

As the origin of heaven-and-earth, it is nameless.
As "the Mother" of all things, it is nameable.

So, as ever hidden, we should look at its inner essence:
As always manifest, we should look at its outer aspects.

These two flow from the same source, though
differently named;
And both are called mysteries.

The Mystery of mysteries is the Door of all essence."

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 13 02:15:53 2011 No.2526936 >>2526824 I have a surrious bizness job and endorse the occasional drug use to remind me about this because I do not have time in my life to spend on meditating.

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/sci/ - Science & Math