/sci/ - Science & Math

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Anonymous Fri Feb 11 23:51:23 2011 No.2519477 [Reply] [Original]

/sci/
I just got mocked for not being a thiest. Infact the exact words to come out of the man that i was arguing were "I thought you were a smart man, but that is the dumbest thing i've ever heard"

Why do athiests get prosecuted for their beliefs?

Note - I was not being obnoxious about my beliefs, just discussing it with a friend, this man must have overheard me.

Along with my post - I include a picture of carl sagan, one of the best teachers of our insignificance.

>>	Scientist Fri Feb 11 23:54:23 2011 No.2519491 >>2519477 Because religious people are deluded, and due to the nature of the common jeudo-christian belief, tend to have an air of (false) superiority. What more do you want us to say?

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 11 23:55:23 2011 No.2519497 Yeah, teacher discovered I was an athiest in 7th grade. She was all like "Oh well, we have to respect their beliefs" I seriously wut'd. I was like "bitch, I'm the one being tolerant here"

Anonymous Fri Feb 11 23:57:23 2011 No.2519507

Today someone laughed at me when I tripped.

Why do people that trip on the street get prosecuted for their actions?

Err anyway, I'm just trying to point out that the question is rather silly. Atheists are not alone in that 'prosecution', and the reason for the prosecution itself comes from our very nature. We don't like... people/things that are different than ourselves. Some are just more vocal about it than others.

And I don't know why you should care about what a random person says.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 11 23:58:23 2011 No.2519513 >>2519497 I also proceeded to fap to her everyday

>>	Scientist Fri Feb 11 23:58:23 2011 No.2519516 >>2519507 The word you're looking for is "persecuted".

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 11 23:58:23 2011 No.2519517 >>2519477 Next time he says something like that, say "What, do you still think Santy Clause is real too?"

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 11 23:59:23 2011 No.2519521 >>2519507 True, but why is this feeling of 'superiority' intensified by thiests? They cannot even imagine how it is possible to not believe in a god. Most athiests however, (if i'm correct) can see why people choose religion.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:00:23 2011 No.2519536 >>2519507 What kind of asshole would laugh at you because you tripped?

>>	Scientist Sat Feb 12 00:00:23 2011 No.2519535 >>2519528 Err, delusion most often as a result of childhood indoctrination.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:00:23 2011 No.2519530 >>2519516 oh fuck. Well, happens sometimes. English isn't my native language.

>>	Scientist Sat Feb 12 00:00:23 2011 No.2519528 >>2519521 Again, delusion.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:01:23 2011 No.2519538 >>2519517 I don't believe in starting arguments. Because really it isn't worth it. >>2519536 Lol

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:01:23 2011 No.2519539 Actually, only 3% of Americans openly claim to be atheists, and despite the lack of press the matter receives, they may be more persecuted and harassed than gays, minorities or immigrants. true story

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:02:23 2011 No.2519546 >>2519539 [citation needed]

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:03:23 2011 No.2519552 >>2519521 most religions enforce that not believing in god will result in some sort of damnation. I guess I'd feel a bit superior if I knew I would escape from that while there's a guy right next to me that won't.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:05:23 2011 No.2519565 >>2519552 Oh so true. Infact that is what this guy continued to say. "I realize that i sin, and as long as i realize my sins i will go up to heaven, if not i will go 'down'.".

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:05:23 2011 No.2519566 >>2519536 I would laugh if I saw a friend tripping. I'm an asshole.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:05:23 2011 No.2519567 AthEIst ThEIst

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:07:23 2011 No.2519578 >>2519539 what if Im a gay athiest dutch immigrant?

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:07:23 2011 No.2519581

>>2519546
http://blog.lib.umn.edu/edgell/home/Strib%20Atheist%20Faith%20and%20Values.html

U of M study.
Of course, some douche professor at NY U disputes it on language, saying up to 14% claim to be "nonreligious", but still, hardly the same thing.

Interesting phenom happened after 9/11. People said they'd be more willing to have a muslim president than an atheist one.
strange world we live in.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:08:23 2011 No.2519593 >>2519566 Would you laugh if you saw a stranger tripping? If yes then you are most definitely an asshole.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:08:23 2011 No.2519594 File: 120 KB, 518x377, SAU.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] In the criminal justice system, the godless based offenses are considered especially heinous

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:09:23 2011 No.2519595 >>2519581 >Interesting phenom happened after 9/11. People said they'd be more willing to have a muslim president than an atheist one. >strange world we live in. or a strange country perhaps.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:09:23 2011 No.2519601
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Atheism is very negative.
I understand you are pissed that organized religions tricked you and took your money.
There is obviously a lot of resentment and frustration on your part.

Now ask yourself this question, why do things exist? When you know the answer to this question, you will understand why athieism is missing a piece of the puzzle.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:10:23 2011 No.2519605 >>2519595 true that. we are so fucking backward in some of the weirdest ways.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:11:23 2011 No.2519616 >>2519601 Let me guess: Is it because God? I bet it's because God.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:11:23 2011 No.2519615 >>2519601 herp-a-derp

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:11:23 2011 No.2519614 >>2519581 Thanks, i want to use this in an argument in the future (citation needed guy/OP)

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:12:23 2011 No.2519625

>>2519601
You're trying to apply the question of "why" to the physical universe, when it does not innately work around "why." "Why" do you exist? "Why" does the universe exist? You cannot reach consensus on such questions.

With "how," you can, but with "why," you cannot.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:12:23 2011 No.2519628

>>2519601
humans adore the examined causality, the basis for reason.

but there is no reason to expect the universe to always conform to human reason.

there is no part missing, except the human blindness to that which isn't in any way human. Atheism doesn't answer incorrect questions, which are mostly the sort people ask.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:14:23 2011 No.2519633 >>2519614 my pleasure /sci/bro

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:15:23 2011 No.2519643
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God is not god in the way monotheism makes him to be.

Brahman is everything. You are a part of it whether you like it or not. Brahman divided by zero and is the source of everything in the universe (big bang)

Scientist Sat Feb 12 00:17:23 2011 No.2519651

>>2519601
>Now ask yourself this question, why do things exist?
Because of the nature of people. They have a burning desire to know something which sometimes makes them prefer arguments from ignorance instead of "I don't know". I suggest watching these videos on the subject. They're good stuff

Neil deGrasse Tyson talking about eye witness testimony:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfAzaDyae-k

Oh, I'm looking for this other video. I'll post it once I find it.

>When you know the answer to this question, you will understand why athieism is missing a piece of the puzzle.
No missing piece.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:17:23 2011 No.2519657 File: 20 KB, 360x360, 69OeA.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2519625 Why does the universe exist? Why isn't there nothing everywhere? Answers plz

>>	Scientist Sat Feb 12 00:18:23 2011 No.2519661 >>2519651 Ah, here it is. Andy Thomson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iMmvu9eMrg&playnext=1&list=PLD7F4DA372F2C5255

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:18:23 2011 No.2519664 >>2519657 Because why not?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:18:23 2011 No.2519662 >>2519643 >Brahman is everything. then it is not "Brahman," it is everything. you can't just take something like existence, everything, the universe, or any gestalten thing and rename it for your comfort.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:20:23 2011 No.2519672 >>2519657 there is no "why." why is a human question and the universe isn't human or here just for humans. just because you're stuck inside your little head doesn't make it important to anyone else.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:22:23 2011 No.2519680 >>2519664 As soon as an athiestfag can explain to me why there is matter instead of nothing, I'll be an athiest. If matter can be neither created nor destroyed, was it just always here? How can this be so?

Scientist Sat Feb 12 00:22:23 2011 No.2519683

>>2519657
"Why?" has several different senses.

One is "Why does that happen? What model or abstraction allows falsifiable predictions on this subject?". In that sense, we do not know. We do not know much about "why" the universe is here.

If you mean what is the purpose of the universe from the perspective of its designer? That question is meaningless to me as I believe that there was no designer.

Scientist Sat Feb 12 00:23:23 2011 No.2519685

>>2519680
Don't hold your breath. You have a common misunderstanding of science.

Science creates models and abstractions in order to predict future phenomena. These models and abstractions frequently explain why they work in terms of more base models and abstractions, but eventually the models and abstractions, without exception, answer the "Why?" question with "I don't know. It is, because that's what the evidence says."

Every explanation, every answer, to a "why?" question begets another "why?" question. You can't continue this series of explanations indefinitely. Eventually, you have to end this regress of known knowledge with "I don't know. It is, because that's what the evidence says." It can't be turtles all the way down.

In that regard, all scientific theories, all scientific laws, etc., are all true only to the extent that the currently known evidence proves them true.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:24:23 2011 No.2519695

>>2519680
it is an incorrect question.

as soon as you understand why you don't need or deserve an answer, you'll be an atheist.

having made it this far without understanding, it's highly unlikely that anyone can explain it to you. perhaps you'll get it on your deathbed, when you suddenly realize that the universe will go on without you, won't even notice you missing.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:27:23 2011 No.2519707 File: 31 KB, 355x342, 1295106245073.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] If matter can neither be created nor destroyed, has it just been here forever? How can this be?

>>	Scientist Sat Feb 12 00:28:23 2011 No.2519711 >>2519707 Please stop asking stupid and/or non-science questions on the science board. I refer you to: >>2519685

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:30:23 2011 No.2519722 >>2519707 It was put there by time travelers. Unfortunately they were killed in the tremendous explosion triggered by the paradox they had created.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:30:23 2011 No.2519727 so am i high, or is this really the religion board?

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:33:23 2011 No.2519748

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Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:34:23 2011 No.2519751
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>>2519711

You're just (understandably) upset that you can't answer my questions with your beloved science.

I have an excellent understanding of your arguement and it does little to answer my question. I kindly ask you to fuck off and let someone with an open mind attempt to answer my question.

If matter can neither be created nor destroyed, has it been around forever? How is this possible?

>>	Scientist Sat Feb 12 00:36:23 2011 No.2519764 >>2519751 You're looking for an answer that science cannot currently give you, and might never be able to give you.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:36:23 2011 No.2519765

>>2519751
forever doesn't begin until matter exists, so it has to exist forever. time is a function of existence. No existence=no time=no forever.

you must be in high school still I suppose, but whatever. at least you're spending your valuable time trolling. you'll go far.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:37:23 2011 No.2519769 >>2519751 i love science so hard. btw. i'm totally christian now due to your post. so is everyone else. so you can fuck off.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:39:23 2011 No.2519782 OMG!! if science doesn't know yet GOD must have done it! it's all so SIMPLE now! fuck! we don't even need this board.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:43:23 2011 No.2519802
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>>2519769

Christianity is obvious trolling.
Hinduism is where it is at.
Created in 3000 BC when the aliens were still around.
Hindus wrote down everything and have it preserved to this day.

Hinduism is where it is at, they have knowledge from aliens.

>>	Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. Sat Feb 12 00:43:23 2011 No.2519803 File: 319 KB, 523x4409, 1283781585774.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:46:23 2011 No.2519818 File: 21 KB, 299x299, E7EHR.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Christianity fucked up the definition of the creator. Creator is not a person, it is simply everything God is infinity

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:46:23 2011 No.2519820

>>2519751
>>2519680

Science does not work that way. Religion and math deal in logic and proof, science deals with evidence and theories. The two are virtually opposites, and trying to apply the thinking of one to the other will always result in massive failure. If you really are curious, and not just a troll, I suggest you begin with wiki's article on Empiricism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 00:47:23 2011 No.2519826 File: 66 KB, 600x365, jedi-sagan600.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2519477 There's no point arguing. To much trouble.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 01:00:23 2011 No.2519882
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>>2519820

I'm combining science and logic.

Science says matter cannot be created.
Science says universe is about 14 billion years old.

If matter cannot be created and matter has been around since beginning of time, has it always just been there?

How?

I'm really not trolling, I'm curious about how and why matter has existed since the beginning of time.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 01:04:23 2011 No.2519898 >>2519882 >Science says matter cannot be created. Matter can be created, so long as you have the energy and create an equal amount of anti-matter. What we're really unsure about is - where the fuck is all the anti-matter?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 01:05:23 2011 No.2519901 >>2519882 http://www.umich.edu/~gs265/bigbang.htm Second paragraph in the section labeled big bang.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 01:06:23 2011 No.2519906

>>2519882
>I'm combining science and logic.

no.

google big bang neucleosynthesis.

btw. you haven't explained e = mc^2

which is how pair production (the creation of matter from energy) works.

you're obviously not interested in learning, but just throwing around the handful of half wrong science facts you picked up from some youth minister while getting your panties in a wad over your own self satisfaction.

oh, and the universe isn't 14 Gyrs, it's 13.7 and one of the ways they find this is through stellar evolution. stars evolve using e=mc^2 too.

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 01:14:23 2011 No.2519949

>>2519882
Actually, matter *can* be created from nothing.
No doubt you've heard of the uncertainty principle of quantum mechanics. Well, aside from position-momentum uncertainty there is energy-time uncertainty; that is to say, given a short enough time interval, the amount of energy is not well defined. Directly from this we deduce that a true vacuum cannot exist--an energy of zero is infinitely accurate, and therefore impossible to achieve. In fact, everywhere there are constant pairs of "virtual" particles and their antiparticle springing up, temporarily defying conservation of energy (though not really, the energy isn't well defined), and then quickly annihilating. A "vacuum" is in a constant flux of creation and destruction.
The big bang just describes what happened after the "stuff" of the universe was there. As we try to look further back, things become much too "messy" for our physical models to handle and everything breaks down

Anonymous Sat Feb 12 01:17:23 2011 No.2519967

>>2519949
>Actually, matter *can* be created from nothing.
No it can't. And every time you claim it can, you make a fool out of yourself. You don't understand QM or the HUP. The HUP responsible for spontaneous pair production is a product of the wave equation, the wave equation is a product of spacetime. If there was nothing, rather than the fabric of spacetime, there would be no HUP and no pair production. Nothing can come from "nothing".

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 01:20:23 2011 No.2519982 >>2519477 >Why do athiests get prosecuted for their beliefs? >prosecuted >athiests >"I thought you were a smart man" nope.pcx PROTIP: No one of intelligence will ever take you seriously until you learn to use works correctly.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 01:21:23 2011 No.2519988 File: 81 KB, 675x1024, 1272430084457.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2519982 >works

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 01:32:23 2011 No.2520041 >>2519967 and you know this because you have existed forever and will continue to, with absolute certainty, correct? Okay.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 01:34:23 2011 No.2520049 >>2520041 cause living forever and always is the only way to know things.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 12 01:36:23 2011 No.2520059 >>2519967 >blah blah nitpick nitpick

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