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/sci/ - Science & Math

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2489506 No.2489506 [Reply] [Original]

What is /sci/'s perspective on homosexuals? Biological wiring or human choice?

Also, homosexuals are probably the best thing to happen to humanity. There are close to 7 billion people on this planet. We don't need more. Fags are helping humanity by not contributing more babies. In fact, when they adopt babies that nobody wants, they are helping take this burden off of society?

Spread the word, we want more gay people to keep our population down and take care of kids we don't want to feed.

>> No.2489519

overpopulation is not a real concern at this point idiot

>> No.2489518

Human choice. It is counter intuitive to assume that nature would make life not want to reproduce.

>> No.2489524

>What is /sci/'s perspective on homosexuals? Biological wiring or human choice?

Possible genetic predisposition in combination with social influences. This is just me talking out of my ass, though.

In an overpopulating world, yes, they can aid in that regard to some degree, although I find that industrialization of the third world may bring about more punctual results.

>> No.2489526

>>2489518

Yes well what about brain disease? Perhaps gays suffer from brain malfuntcion?

>> No.2489529

>>2489506
you are making a fair point about unwanted babies, and regarding your question: is not a matter of choice, you could say is a genetic, prenatal condition, but sometimes is also about the enviorement so is not a solid ground for opinion...

>> No.2489530

>>2489518

As though nature makes sure that all genes are beneficial.

>> No.2489531

>>2489519
Yeah, human population is going to peak at around 9 or 10 billion by the end of the century and go into decline.

If you don't believe me, look up the wikipedia article, the UN projections, or the Hans Rosling stats:
http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_on_global_population_growth.html

>> No.2489537
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2489537

>>2489519

Instead of going all china on our ass, the media programs us to love the same sex so that we don't have more babies. All the while it appearsa as if this is a matter of individual choice.

Brilliant population control is brilliant.

>> No.2489538

I think it's psychological. It's neither a conscious choice, nor are certain people "born with it". It just develops. Why? Don't know.

That said, I wouldn't necessarily call it a "disorder" or anything like that, but then again I'm not a psychologist. I personally don't see any problem with allowing them to marry or adopt, however. And the only arguments I ever see against gays always end up falling back on religion.

>> No.2489550

I'm not gay, so I don't know. Why don't we just ask a gay person if they want to be gay?
And how do we differentiate a biological desire to be gay and a "personal" desire to be gay? Is there a way to tell them apart?

>> No.2489553

OP, I used to hate fags until I realized your very points about overpopulation and adoption.

>> No.2489555

I've seen both the biological and choice sides argued to death, not always by the sides you would expect to argue them.
I honestly don't give a damn either way. I doubt much of /sci/ is very anti-homo unless trolling, and I don't even understand why people really are.

>> No.2489557

It's usually a combination of both.

>> No.2489560
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2489560

I don't think there is any single thing pertinent to the human body that is not affected by both nature and nurture.

That said, the VERY PURPOSE of the recently developed neocortex was to override nature as one saw fit... That's the beauty of human beings... We hold our destiny in our own hands, but we're too stupid a species to realize that.

Anyway... I guess my opinion on the matter would boil down to human choice as per the above rant...

>> No.2489568

>>2489537
that was fixed with aids
but since all faggots have aids, then it's not really beneficial except that they're dying off

>> No.2489569

>>2489537

Oh shit

China (government heavy) - one child only rules
USA (individual heavy) tricks population into adopting unwanted babies

Different tools for different cultures

>> No.2489580

The problem with gay marriage ultimately lies in the government's role in marriage. "Marriage" as a personal/spiritual bonding... thing should be a personal affair. Marry whoever you want and let the raging Christfags refuse to acknowledge it or whatever. All the government should worry about is "civil unions" (or whatever you want to call it) that says that two people are *legally* bonded so they can file taxes together, visit each other in the hospital, share custody of kids, or whatnot.
Separate the church and the state.

>> No.2489591

>morality of decline

i think it's biological, one way or another (genetic/environmental) who knows - not a choice

btw, war is another argument for overpopulation but you wouldn't argue for that would you OP?

>> No.2489620

Don't worry, at the current rate asian commit sucide we'll never overpopualte

>> No.2489625

> war is another argument for overpopulation but you wouldn't argue for that would you OP?

I would rather let gays make love than make war. Everybody is happy, less population, less unwanted babies, no deaths

>> No.2489640

>>2489625

I'm just saying don't justify this shit with some sort of utilitarian argument. like abortion and homosex keep us from overpopulating, because the same utilitarian argument can justify war, and a whole lot of other nonsense

>> No.2489646

>>2489625
Oh, if only we could be happy and respect each others differences.
But aslong as something as small like the chick next store having a bigger ass than your girlfriend, it'll never happen

>> No.2489664

Self-reinforcing conditioned response loop that is, by it's nature, pretty much impossible to break.

So... neither.

/thread
/debate

>> No.2489666

>>2489646

Let's do a root cause analysis, /sci/entists. Let's solve humanity's problems right here

5 why analysis

1) Why can't we be happy and respect each others differences?

>> No.2489672

>>2489666
666 GET!
also by that I mean that something as simple as that can ruin happiness.

>> No.2489686

I always figured it was a combination of physical traits/ the expectation that someone who acts a certain way is supposed to be gay. Like take a High School for example, you know that one kid who always had the high voice and hung out with chicks? Everyone naturally assumed he was gay, and I guess he, being a weak minded individual, thought "If everyone thinks I'm gay, maybe I am!".

But then again that theory falls apart when you meet guys that are just normal bros, but it just turns out that they're gay, which makes me think that for some people it's environmental factors, and for others it's something biological.

>> No.2489703

>>2489666

yah pretty much;

some of us disagree with others of us

we have different self-interests, and where they overlap, conflict

it's what keeps life vibrant and strong

>> No.2489705

>>2489672

5 why analysis will let us find the root cause of this problem.

The fist why, "why does something as simple as 666 get ruin happiness?"

>> No.2489715

>>2489703

Next why

"some of us disagree with others of us"
Why do we disagree?

>> No.2489743

A funny thing happens when you have a conflicted society: People look for any excuse to attack each other. One such excuse has been "Hey, those two people are touching each other. Let's get them!" and for fun they set all kinds of conditions concerning who can touch who and at what moment

This has become so commonplace that the offenders have words for people who touch each other shamelessly, and even categories. Touch someone of the same gender and they put you in one category, touch someone of another race and they put you in a category, and so on with age, class, social standing - anything.

It's all the more creepy when someone tries to make a science out of it.
"What makes a person [insert commonly-attacked touching group]? Is it genetics?"

>> No.2489764

>>2489519
Overpopulation is always a concern, the more people the less of everything there is for each of us.

>> No.2489779

>>2489715

because we have competing interests, man, next sentence

>> No.2489798
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2489798

>>2489743

+1 internets to you.
Please, continue

>> No.2489791

>>2489743

however, there are social reasons for these things

people aren't just making this shit up for the fun of it

everything has a purpose

>> No.2489801

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assortative_mating

>> No.2489806
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2489806

"we have competing interests"

Why do we have competing interests?

>> No.2489813

>>2489791
>everything has a purpose

[citation needed]

>> No.2489824

im gay: its a human choice.

Its like someone else being turned on by anything really. Other people get turned on by Hentai, or furry porn, gay men get turned on by men, and enjoy submitting to those sexual deviations.

>> No.2489828

I believe gayness is mostly genetic. I suspect there is an "attraction to men" gene that is evolutionarily beneficial for women, and that gay men inherit it from their mothers.

>> No.2489831

>>2489813

No no, he's rightm everything hass a purpose. That doesn't mean that purpose has to be significant at all.

>> No.2489873

>>2489806

well, 1, it's what we're programmed for, but that doesn't really answer your question

2, finite resources, not just finite, but differential. ie. 100 men in a room full of 100 women there's still going to be struggle because all the men, straight ones anyway, are going to want to mate with the prettiest women

competition, etc.

>> No.2489879

>>2489828

interesting; why beneficial to women? not disagreeing with you, just curious

>> No.2489886

>>2489831

there are varying levels of significance; often it's hard to gauge; ie. butterfly effect, or whatever

>> No.2489890

Genetic/predisposed and probably able to be changed through gene-environment interaction. That's pretty much all there is to it. The same goes for ANY trait for the most part.

>> No.2489899
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2489899

>>2489873

We are reaching the rooot cause.

Why do we distribute finite resources the way we do now?

How can we distribute them better?

>> No.2489897

>>2489879
because if it was beneficial to men it would die out quickly

>> No.2489911

>>2489899

Because those with the means of resource distribution do so to help themselves, instead of others most of the time.

>> No.2489922

>>2489897

i see what you're saying; they inherit the female predilicition

similarly that lesbians inherit a male prediliction for women


i think there's more to it than that tho; ie. more to it than mere sexual selection; the gendered personality of either is also inherited from the opposite sexed parent

ie. why gay men tend to be more effeminate, and lesbians are "butch" or whatever, altho these tendencies don't express absolutely

>> No.2489938

>>2489899

our selection can be refined, and augmented, but the process is naturally selected for; i'm not sure we want to throw it out

unless we're talking about eliminating differentiation, and thus the need for competition. ie. make everybody robots/ai

but that make the argument moot to begin with

>> No.2489953

>>2489922

Embarrassingly enough I believe maybe porn has influenced our perceptions of Gays and Lesbians. There always seems to be some little "girly girl" in every lesbian porno, however not many people have enough experience with actual lesbians to be able to accurately judge the traits with majority in a group.

A study of lesbians from Colorado would be different than a study of lesbians from Sweden or Morocco, so culture is a big deciding factor as well.

>> No.2489978 [DELETED] 

>>2489953

somehow i doubt the significance of porn

from what i've heard, most gays realise they're gay pretty early on, before most of them have had much if any exposure to porn

>> No.2489988

It's a fetish blown out of the proportion because society said it was wrong.

Let's say I like brunettes and you like blondes. No problem, right? I would take a nice blonde and you would take a nice brunette if we had the chance. Now imagine if we hated each other for it, like a religious or sport debate. I'd say blondes are the devil and start hating everyone who like it. You would be scared by this and say "well yeah? I think brunettes are shit, I'll stick with my blondes". "Outrageous!" I'd shout and so it begins.

Just like that, we fuck girl, men, maybe animals, scat, necrophilia... Meh, each one with their own tastes. Then fucking men is considered wrong and guys who like it have to stick to it, because society can't accept them back as they are.

>> No.2490000

>however, there are social reasons for these things
Somewhere deep in our history there were purposes. For instance you have some tribes and societies who prevent their people from mating with outsiders. This is not necessarily a bad thing, because outside genes can 'infect' a gene pool at times and create conflicts within the tribe (both physiological and psychological). And thus a 'no touching outsiders' rule is put in place because they aren't ready to deal with such changes.

Then there's the issue of competition. In order to keep a tribe's genes fit, there are some 'hands off' rules that prevent weaker people from mating.

What we have today is people attacking people for touching in ways that have no impact on the gene pool. While these attacks might take their roots in the above behaviors, the attackers are acting only on unrelated tension and an animalistic desire for dominance.

>> No.2490004

>>2489506
I see a lot of people trying to come up with some sort of purpose behind homosexuality, the most common one is overpopulation control, but I've seen no evidence for this or mechanism by which genes which discourage procreation can spread.

I think it's natural to want there to be some sort of purpose to homosexuality because saying it was just an error in cell division somewhere sounds cruel and intolerant.

Humans have a subconscious conformist attitude. Things which are different can be accepted, but only if they serve some useful purpose.We've all read dozens of children's stories like Rudolph the Reindeer where someone is outcast for being different, only to be accepted after their difference allows them to save the day. The morals in those stories are bullshit. Sometimes being different doesn't do anything useful, but that doesn't make being different wrong.

Words like mistake, accident, or error all imply something which was supposed to happen didn't, but nature has no purposeful goals, evolution isn't a thinking planning force, saying that nature made a mistake is a meaningless statement .

>> No.2490013

>>2489518
So then gay dolphins and gay bonobos are human now
BRILLIANT

>> No.2490037

Homosexuality is not a choice just like being straight isn't a choice. I can't just decide that I think guys are hot now.

>> No.2490050

>>2490037
go to /b/ for a while, there are some nice looking traps

>> No.2490052

>>2490000

nice quads

however, the will to power, dominance, is instinctual; i wouldn't dismiss it so easily

as far as what's happening today, today there's more acceptance of homosexuality than there's been in centuries, millennia even

throughout various cultures these precepts against homosexuality have existed for long periods of time

some people look and say "what harm is there in it" but they don't see the reasons for its prohibition so easily

>> No.2490058

>>2490050

uhm, no

straight guys like their women looking humans with pussies

>> No.2490075

nobody's mentioned anything about hormones or receptors? go read some studies done that involve such things, like levels of oxytocin/testosterone/other sex-related hormones in the body, activity in the brain, and heritability of homosexuality dependent on previous generations. it IS heritable

>> No.2490076

>>2490058
LOL

>> No.2490094

>>2490050
I'm attracted to the female form. Whether the thing that is taking the form of a human female is female or not is irrelevant to me. It doesn't even have to be a human, it can be a drawing, statue, android, alien etc. If it looks like an attractive human female I'd like to fuck it.

>> No.2490108

nature's perfect way of sterilzing a fertil species

>> No.2490139

>Spread the word, we want more gay people to keep our population down and take care of kids we don't want to feed.

What about the abortions. We'll still feed the abortees

>> No.2490141

>>2490094

female is more than just looks

sound, smell, movement

"i count time in how a body sways"

you go fuck with some drawing

i'll stick with teh pussy

>> No.2490184

>>2489518
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

It is most definitely not a choice. If you continue to disagree, please explain this link.

>> No.2490215

>Self-reinforcing conditioned response loop
>/thread
>/debate