/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.2465024]

I noticed that a lot of threads concerning immortality and transhumanism are popping up lately, mostly based on the research of the Manhattan project, SENS or related breakthroughs in technology.

So I have to ask - how long exactly do you want to live? Decades? Millennia? Millions of years? How do you see your future if you happen to get one of these life-extending treatments in your lifetime? On a space-ship on your way to faraway galaxies? On another planet after Earth's resources are used up? In a sci-fi nanosuit, fused with technology? Descendant of a race that managed to achieve godlike abilities due to technology and knowledge?

Isn't it regardless, even in the unlikely scenario where you would still be sane and "you" after all these, for us humans, unbelievable timescales, whether you live 80 or a million years? What's your endgame in this? Follow your primeval instincts of survival? Enjoy life while it lasts and extend it so you can have more good emotions? Colonize galaxies and spread our race among the stars?

Isn't everything, no matter what we do, pointless in the end? Even if we manage to survive until the very last day when our universe collapses or whatever theory we have for the end of all days, what did we gain?

This gives nothing really matters a whole new meaning.

[Anonymous No.2465030]

*Manhattan beach project

[Anonymous No.2465052]

maximize the fun function

[Anonymous No.2465079]

I would promtly reject it.
I couldn't see myself living so long, we had our time so now it's time to let our descendants enjoy life the way we did.

[Anonymous No.2465083]

>>2465079
luddite detected

[Anonymous No.2465094]

>>2465083
Hah, no, if you want to revolutionize be my guess, I'd choose to let myself die without interfering at all, as long as you don't make sentient robots.

[Anonymous No.2465106]

>Millions of years?
I want to exist not as a individual human. I wish to exist as a fringe expression of personality in a gigantic hivemind, unbound by gravity. Free from politics.

Think of the entire 4chan collective floating in space. Millions of individuals all pooling their experience, opinions and knowledge into one center, yet no one is kind.

I wish to exist as part of this. We would be legion, we would be immortal and we could cross the void of space, it may take decades, centuries, millenias, but we would prevail. Or most distant eyes would give us views from thousands of years ago while we see new fronteirs never witnessed by intelligent beings.

We could even take the step into Intergalactic space. Darkspace. Almost pitch black, the only light availible for hundreds of thousands of years would be of the distant starts of the galaxies. And we would travel trough this almost infinite void, as true citizens of the universe.

I Have a Dream /sci/. I think it's beautiful, and I hope to see it fulfilled.

[Anonymous No.2465116]

I want to live indefinitely. There's no point in putting a limit on it; I'll always have the option to kill myself if I find it necessary.

I see myself eventually being transferred to "hardware" in such a manner that consciousness is preserved. I want to be a starship. That's my goal.

Life only has the meaning you give it. If you want to be a nihilist, that's fine with me.

[Anonymous No.2465121]

>>2465094
>let myself die without interfering at all, as long as you don't make sentient robots.

nope still a luddite and an inconsistent one at that

[Anonymous No.2465122]

>>2465106
> yet no one is kind.
Should read as >KING.
No rulers, no dictators, no hierarchy. All opinions valued the same.

[Anonymous No.2465124]

>>2465121
luddite to some extent maybe, as I said, if you make sentient robots expect to see some serious shit

[Anonymous No.2465125]

>>2465106
>Think of the entire 4chan collective floating in space.

OH GOD THE HORROR

THE HORROR

[Anonymous No.2465128]

>Isn't it regardless, even in the unlikely scenario where you would still be sane and "you" after all these, for us humans, unbelievable timescales, whether you live 80 or a million years? What's your endgame in this? Follow your primeval instincts of survival? Enjoy life while it lasts and extend it so you can have more good emotions? Colonize galaxies and spread our race among the stars?

>Isn't everything, no matter what we do, pointless in the end?

Only if you see it as being pointless, which I can understand why you might. Certainly all of those reasons may be viable, but surely they may change one way or another as we continue to exist. As I see it though, we owe it to ourselves, a fraction of the self-acknowledging universe, to do what we can to make this possible.

But in short: whatever floats your boat, jars your pickles, or ducts your tape.

[Anonymous No.2465140]

>>2465116
>I want to be a starship
I was thinking about this recently. The universe is so huge. I'm expecting future humans to be planet-sized space-fairing hiveminds.

[Anonymous No.2465150]

>>2465024
>This gives nothing really matters a whole new meaning.
16-year-old detected. All of this was included in the original meaning.

>>2465125
Would we be scarier than the Borg? The Klingon?

[Anonymous No.2465153]

>>2465124
You do know that there is a difference between sentience and sapience, right? Robots are nearing sentience, your pets are sentient, and you are sentient. But only you are sapient, freely thinking, freely knowing and deciding. I wouldn't be too worried, if I were a fear-mongerer like you.

[fizx !d75etXAowg No.2465165]

If I could live for an undefined amount of time I would get an education in everything that interests me. I chose a major in physics because if I couldn't study everything then the next best option is to study the field that applies to everything.

After that, dunno. I'd definitely want to go to Mars, have a kid or two, dabble in terraformation projects across the solar system... I would basically want to become Sax from Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars Trilogy.

[Anonymous No.2465189]

>>2465128

>But in short: whatever floats your boat, jars your pickles, or ducts your tape.

That rustles my jimmies

[Anonymous No.2465193]

I, Anonymous, the Second Wisest Human after Gene Ray, declare that after achieving immortality we are best served by not asking the question of, "How many years do I want to live?" Instead we are able to always live in the present without the burden of the dire consequences of the future. This Simplicity Of Being is what makes life worthwhile on a whole new level.

[Anonymous No.2465232]

I think if I lived forever there wouldn't be a need for me to have children because honestly isn't that the reason why we have children? So we can pass on our genetics and give life?

I wouldn't mind living an hedonistic life forever.

If we can stop aging or possibly reverse it to an age which people would desire, maybe the 20's then we can live the life we love/loved.

I have a fear that after my 20's that my quality of life will diminish so why not leave my age at 20?

If I ever felt like I didn't want to live anymore after hundreds of years I could decide to kill myself.

[Anonymous No.2465269]

Wow, imagine living millions of years... alone

This gives forever alone a whole new meaning.

[Anonymous No.2465285]

>>2465232
That's why such technology, if it were to exist, would mean the end of the human race, and all it has accomplished. Any right-minded individual would destroy such technology, so that death and offspring could continue, and the HUMAN RACE can have immortality.

[Anonymous No.2465301]

>mfw i'm immortal and become bored with life so I pay to have bounty hunters attempt to kill me, in an epic chase through chasm city

[fizx !d75etXAowg No.2465333]

>>2465285
Wait, why would it be bad?

[Anonymous No.2465343]

>>2465301
Yeaaah chasm city!

off topic but do you know any other authors like alastair reynolds?

[Anonymous No.2465344]

>>2465333
Not the guy you were talking to, but death is a pretty essential part of life at large existing. Immortality is something that could potentially deplete even more resources for those without it.

That said, the moral quandaries evade me. Sure, you completely kick yourself out of the track of evolution onto the track of self upgrading, but that's just faster, more personalized evolution anyway.

[Anonymous No.2465392]

>>2465343
Eh, sadly not too many.

If you want hard science fiction the Mars Trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson is good.

But as far as author's that have the same feel as Reynolds, no. Even though I have looked.

[fizx !d75etXAowg No.2465422]

>>2465344
Just because it has possibly grave social implications doesn't mean it should be discarded. It may cause a fundamental shift in what it means to be human and how society operates, but that obviously doesn't make it inherently bad. I say let it come.

[Anonymous No.2465427]

>>2465333

In a word: Stagnation

[Anonymous No.2465479]

Eww, who wants to be in a hive mind? Think of the person you hate the most, would you really want to be connected to him forever? I'd rather be an individual with infinite power exploring the universe, either that or creating my own fantasy world inside a computer, effectively becoming a god.

[Anonymous No.2465515]

>>2465479
>Eww, who wants to be in a hive mind? Think of the person you hate the most, would you really want to be connected to him forever?

I would think that once you are able to merge consciousness with other individuals, your petty triflings with their former individuality would be rendered null.

>I'd rather be an individual with infinite power exploring the universe, either that or creating my own fantasy world inside a computer, effectively becoming a god.

You would be alone; so very, very alone. None of your creations would ever please you for long, and you would soon devolve into a megalomaniac driven by your own ego, ready to exert your infallible will upon your ungrateful creations.

Why not become part of something bigger? Something...better? Become One; become All.

[Anonymous No.2465537]

>>2465515
To deep for him?

[Anonymous No.2465546]

To observe... why else OP?

[Anonymous No.2465590]

>>2465515
Shit you sold me, but I was already leaning towards merging any-who.

[Anonymous No.2465847]

>>2465537

[Anonymous No.2465879]

>>2465515
then tell me, in a hive mind scenario, what would be the point of existence without individuality; what would this hivemind strive for?

[Anonymous No.2465889]

>>2465879
How the heck should I know? I'm no hivemind. I assume that they would collect things...information...alien species...things like that maybe. Like an aging basement-dweller.

[Xlore !!oIaXoksOFZm No.2465900]

I want to watch a star being formed.

If there was a way to live long enough thats all i would want to do.
Then i could die peacefully.

Too bad it won't happen, so no need to get my hopes up.

[Anonymous No.2465912]

>>2465900
I feel you bro. I feel you.

Just look at all this space, begging to be explored.

I would be happy if I'd be able to just observe a few solar systems, planets, maybe visit a neighboring galaxy...

But I probably won't ever leave this planet. Feels bad man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAVjF_7ensg

[Anonymous No.2465956]

>>2465889
well my objection to a hivemind is that with the collective consciousness of all humanity we, as a species, will come to the pinnacle of the absurdist question. With all scientific rational knowledge provided by our link we realize the horrific truth that there is no inherent meaning in life. and when the consciousness has discovered all the knowable unknowns, then what? There will be no human journey of discovery, no wonder or fascination, ambition or longing to discover individual meaning. As a species we will realize that all that is left is to live out hedonistic lives with no aims or true fulfillment. no sense of accomplishment or real human emotion. life is about the journey not the destination. when such a construct as a hivemind fully realizes this what then?

[Anonymous No.2465987]

Its this point OP, that makes me often wonder about the mental and emotional maturity of religious people- Here you have a group all wishing and hoping for a reward of eternal life, who don't know what to bloody do with themselves on a rainy afternoon.

[Xlore !!oIaXoksOFZm No.2465988]

>>2465912
>hubble ultra deep field
oh i've seen this before

>in 3D
HHHNNNNNGGGG
its beautiful...

[Anonymous No.2466047]

I simply cannot understand those who say they wouldn't stop aging if they could.

Perhaps it's old people saying that, people who are too old now to possibly live long enough to see the end of aging.
If so, I feel bad for you guys, but just because you probably won't make it to the age of agelessness doesn't mean that future generations shouldn't at least have the option.
Hell, even us younger guys may not live long enought, but that's not going to stop me from persuing it.

Perhaps you're religousfags, and think it immoral not to die or something like that.
I suppose it would be, as I myself see the end of aging as the first step to what might be considered "godhood".
Once you stop aging, it's not much further to stop dying altogether.

But if not, and if you're not just trolls, then what the fuck is wrong with you?
Of course life has no absolute purpose, but can you really name anything that's absolute? Most things in life are subjective, the purpose of life included. If you think life has no purpose, then fine, that's the purpose of life for you.

I bet you'd change your mind if you had some sort of terminal disease though. Perhaps you'd do well to think about that pro-death people.
What would it feel like to be layed up in bed with only a few weeks to live?
Wouldn't you give anything then, just to keep living?
I suppose that may be the baser question. What's your preference, oblivion or existance?

As for me, my purpose in life is the simply the pursuit of happiness and knowledge.
And when I'm immortal, well I'll just learn everything.
Of course, it's most likely impossible to learn "everything", even if you were immortal, for various reasons.
But hey, eternity is a journey, not a destination.

[Anonymous No.2466051]

> So I have to ask - how long exactly do you want to live? Decades? Millennia? Millions of years?
As long as possible. I would only choose to stop existing if there was no real point to continue doing so (resources are over, no more interaction with anything), however that point would be when one is nearing heat death anyway, so it'd be natural death.
> How do you see your future if you happen to get one of these life-extending treatments in your lifetime?
Initially, I'd imagine I'd be biological human, still moral, just only likely to die due to accidents - if aging and common diseases are solved. Later on, whenever uploading becomes possible, I'd transition to a robotic body and/or emulated environment.
> On a space-ship on your way to faraway galaxies?
This would probably take a while (both getting the energy and technology, as well as the actual travel, due to relativistic effects), but I'd love to see intergalactic travel.
> On another planet after Earth's resources are used up?
Another possibility, but probably less likely if we're no longer biological. Even if we would be biological, I'd imagine we'd build our own homes/space colonies, instead of terraforming random planets.
> In a sci-fi nanosuit, fused with technology?
Possibly, if travelling the stars, although I'd imagine it'd be more like a terminal, with the mind backed up in multiple remote locations, to increase the chance of survival.
> Descendant of a race that managed to achieve godlike abilities due to technology and knowledge?
Sure, although this is impossible in the sense that due to limited resources, we are limited in what we can compute and what we can emulate. Maybe some scientific breakthroughs could change this, but since I suspect the universe is discrete (at plank length), such things are likely impossible (my definition of god-like would include not being limited by physical computational limits).

[Anonymous No.2466064]

>>2466051
> Isn't it regardless, even in the unlikely scenario where you would still be sane and "you" after all these, for us humans, unbelievable timescales, whether you live 80 or a million years?
What you can do in 80 years is quite limited and small. Imagine if you could "slow down" time (have your brain run at speeds 1000-1000 times faster - more closer to physical limits, not the speeds at which neurons function at), how much time you could experience, how much you could learn and create. While I wouldn't mind being myself for a few thousands of years, I'd imagine I'd begin to change/"upgrade" how my mind works to extend its capacity and reliability. Eventually, being "just human" will be pointless, maybe for a few thousand years it'd be fun, but after a while, it might be interesting to go much further than that.
> What's your endgame in this? Follow your primeval instincts of survival?
Intelligent existence is wonderful. It's probably one of the best things to be in an universe - and I'd like to see the universe crawling with intelligence. It's not that I fear that I won't exist someday, it's that existence itself is a wonderful state of being, and there's no reason not to continue it.
> Enjoy life while it lasts and extend it so you can have more good emotions?
Such hedonistic goals would be fine as far as you stay human-like, but beyond that
> Colonize galaxies and spread our race among the
stars?
Spreading intelligence across galaxies would be a better goal once one is no longer just a human. Not just human intelligence, but all conscious intelligence to that matter (such as whatever AIs we'll be creating).

[Anonymous No.2466074]

>>2466064
> Isn't everything, no matter what we do, pointless in the end? Even if we manage to survive until the very last day when our universe collapses or whatever theory we have for the end of all days, what did we gain?
The nihilistic position may be true in the sense that there is no greater meaning for anything at all, but why care? Conscious existence is wonderful and going beyond that and expanding is likely be very interesting and we can't yet imagine how would that be. Wouldn't you rather experience amazing things, gain knowledge, create complex and wonderful systems? You are the one giving meaning to yourself and other things. If you wish to stop existing, you're free to do so, but I'd rather have a very interesting intelligent existence than not exist (I should be careful what I wish for...).

Oh, also for those that mentioned the hivemind possibility, I think that would be interesting too, although I'm not entirely sure about how feasible it would be, so I didn't mention it in my posts.

[Anonymous No.2466105]

ITT: Nerds indulge in religious flights of fancy cloaked in a superficial mantle of "science".

Your deaths are inevitable.
You will never roam freely among the stars.
You will never evade the burden of personal responsibility by subsuming your individuality in a collective hive mind.
You will never become a special digital snowflake.

The most you can hope for is a lotus eater like existence of futility as you lose yourself in an electronic addiction and eventually die when your body wastes away from neglect and old age.

[Anonymous No.2466139]

Phase 1:Arrange all the energy of the universe into sentient matter.
Phase 2:???
Phase 3:Profit!!!

[Anonymous No.2466214]

Fuck guys. I just had one of those moments where you realize you aren't going to exist at some point. That is just the most horrific and dreadful thing that I can do to myself when done correctly. Many or most people know it, but when you truly appreciate what it means, I don't see how you can't have a panic attack like I basically just did. Fuck man, everything is escapism. I know I sound like a teenager, but when I get that feeling just right, I can't help but be like this. Fuck I wish I was immortal.

[Anonymous No.2466229]

>>2466214
I've felt that before.

Most of the time I'm okay with it.

[Anonymous No.2466249]

>>2466214
At least your germline is practically immortal.
Which is really trippy when you think about it.
You are the most recent link in an unbroken chain stretching back to the dawn of life.

[Anonymous No.2466264]

>>2466214
Eh, I somewhat accepted it a long time ago when I contemplated the inevitable heat death of the universe (even if we achieve the best kind of pseudoimmortality that's possible).
I even stopped caring that much about it when I contemplated on the nature of qualia, continuity of consciousness and many other philosophical issues as the conclusion that I've arrived to is that continuity is most likely an illusion. However, that doesn't mean that I don't think the most interesting state of existence is the focused conscious one, which basically means pseudoimmortality and spreading intelligence further in our universe should be one of our goals.

Conscious, intelligent existence is a very interesting state and we should aim to continue it and spread it further.

[Anonymous No.2466280]

>>2466139
That's a really funny idea! What if all matter in the universe were constructed into one giant sentient being...?

[Anonymous No.2466284]

>>2466280
>What if all matter in the universe were constructed into one giant sentient being...?

You'd be dead.

[Anonymous No.2466287]

>>2466280

Maybe it already is...

[Anonymous No.2466305]

I in-vision myself existing up to a few billion years. This would occur through a long/dramatic metamorphoses; in which my first few century's would be in my original body, constantly changing into a nano-tech/mechanical form. Once every cell form this body as been replaced, I would spend several eons by switching bodies and occupationally function as emulation software. Following that, my mind and digital/physical/energy form would steadily become less and less human, eventually achieving and surpassing posthuman.

[Anonymous No.2466317]

>>2466305

Typo fixes--I was watching TNG while typing this.

>occupationally
>Occasionally

>cell form
>Cell from

>Too fucking tired to fix the rest...

[Anonymous No.2466334]

>>2465106

As long as I can still occasionally think as one mind, I will join you. ^_^

[Anonymous No.2466402]

The zeal-for-life that's in me would have me stand on my soap box and elaborate on how excited I am to explore and experience everything that this universe has to offer, but I think if I've learned anything at all in life at my relatively young age, it's that people don't really care what's going on in my head.

So I'll talk about you. I feel sorry for you. I feel sorry for you because if you're ready to die, if you can honestly say you would rather die than live, whether it's tomorrow or 50 years from now, you must be miserable. I can't imagine how someone could be jaded to such a degree with this existence that they would choose death over life; perhaps that's just a testament to how incredibly varied each and everyone one of our personal existences are, perhaps not. Perhaps you and the many that share your point of view really are so miserable that you would rather have nothing. Or is it just blind conservatism? No friends and family, no loved ones, no mountains to climb and no hardships to overcome, no anguish of defeat and the triumph in getting back up.... just nothing. I cannot fathom choosing the latter no matter how miserable my life was. Is it really all that bad? Are you just assuming that you'll get bored? If so how can you be so sure?

I've heard many people with your point of view but I've never seen one give a satisfying response... if you're just miserable, fine, I can understand that. But, I haven't heard anyone say that before. I don't really understand you're argument in your post, are you arguing that there will be a memory problem? Why not just cross that bridge when you get to it?

P.S. When I say "this existence" I am not implying that there is another. I am merely referring to the human condition that everyone on earth has in common.

[Anonymous No.2466410]

I would rather have something like back ups and forks from Eclipses Phase with a ageless body. Each time I am killed or go insane, a earlier mental back up will continue in my place. Sort of like what happens to you when you go through a transporter in Star Trek.

[Anonymous No.2466449]

Bump, I want to become digital and live on the internet. 4chan will be my house.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.2466473]

I wish to spread life to several formerly barren worlds through terraforming. Then I want to go explore the Milky Way. All of it.

[Anonymous No.2466481]

>Enjoy life while it lasts and extend it so you can have more good emotions

You pretty much already got it here.
It is possible that tomorrow I will find myself laying in a hospital bed, facing an immediate, inevitable death.
I predict that I would be sad, and a bit disappointed, because there would be many joyous sensations of which I would no longer be capable. Still be so many experiences I would not leave explored. Discovery, creation, destruction, intimacy. Things that satisfy me on a deep level, both physical/emotional and intellectual. So many people I would leave bereft.

Here's the thing. I predict that I would have the same reaction if the time were changed from tomorrow to 20 years from now. To 80 years from now, or to 400 years from now.

Of course, I cannot know for sure. And the person I would be centuries from now would probably be nearly unrecognizable to the me of today. Just as I would be nearly unrecognizable to the me of 15 years ago.
But all the things that are exist in 4-dimension. The entire chain of being, from my moment of birth to the moment of my dissolution, is me.
Who knows what will happen. If I had to guess, I'd say that I will probably abandon my biological body to be re“incarnate”d in technology (hopefully with no loss of continuity of consciousness, as that would comfort me). Perhaps a copy of me will stay here, and another journey across the galaxy in a soda can sized computer attached to a moon wide sail.

>what did we gain?
Our lives. There is no outside power, no grim or caring law-giver to define what meaning our lives have or should have. Only we get to do that.

[Anonymous No.2466522]

Will I be able to transfer my mind into a computer by 2030?

[Anonymous No.2466529]

Hey, I just saw an episode of Nova scienceNow about this on tv.

Here it is, "Can We Live Forever":
http://video.pbs.org/video/1754457671

It's an hour long, but if you're interested in some of what's being done right now, there it is.

[Anonymous No.2466655]

Common /sci/, I know that there is more you can discuss /provide!