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/sci/ - Science & Math

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2431838 No.2431838 [Reply] [Original]

What are your opinions on the death penalty. Should it banned or a standard punishment? Forgive me for the lack of science. I just wanted to know people on /sci/ would think.

>> No.2431846

in america it targets minorities unfairly

>> No.2431847

not science, reported

>> No.2431851

Definitely should be legal. In fact I'd want murderers to be put to death in the same way as their victims. I don't even care about the money that would be saved if it were properly legalised. I just want prisoners to be punished and tortured.

>> No.2431858

>>2431838
Banned. No killing of conscious persons against their own will. However, if a person does want to kill themselves, they should be given enough humane choice on how to do it, instead of today's freakshow with public exections in the US.

>> No.2431860

No. The government should not be able to execute its citizens.

>> No.2431861

>>2431846

in america minorities are more likely to be criminals

>> No.2431866

All murderers should recieve the death penalty. 'Eye for an eye' is the only fair punishment.
If we were still using that, nobody would commit crimes anymore because nobody wants to experience whatever they do to other people themselves.

>> No.2431877

The death penalty, for all intensive purposes, is the biggest deterrent we have, irregardless of how often it is or isn't used. Let's face it, it's a doggy dog world out their.

>> No.2431881

>>2431877
> intensive purposes
Yeah, death is pretty fucking intense.

>> No.2431889
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2431889

>>2431877

>it's a doggy dog world out there

>> No.2431901

>>2431866
Bullshit. Crime is caused by poverty. People poor, unemployed and uneducated are more likely to commit crimes. psychopaths are an exception. They're just plain insane.

>> No.2431911

>>2431866
The death penalty doesn't deter crime.

>> No.2431914

I believe in revenge and even death as a punishment for a persons actions.

However it should not be in the hands of the state as a cold blooded issue. The closest family members or friends should be in charge of the execution. It should be humane but not the clinical and sterile.

>> No.2431915

>>2431846
Except for all the affirmative action laws that let obviously guilty minorities go free. Remember OJ Simpson?

>> No.2431918

It should be banned.
If the legal system were perfect and always correct in its judgement, I would be in favour of it for murderers or those who were insande and unfixable.
The US only sentences about 60 people a year to death, yet in the past 30 years around 130 have been taken off of death row prior to death

>> No.2431921
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2431921

>>2431911
>implying the death penalty doesn't deter crime.
yeh it does, if you are gonna be killed as punishment...you think twice before acting.

>> No.2431924

>>2431877
>intensive
>irregardless
>doggy dog
>their

subtle troll is subtle.

>> No.2431930

Its not a punishment because you are dead, the only punishment is the fear and sadness and all that before you die.

>> No.2431931

>>2431901
When you know that you'll get your money taken and beaten up after being caught for robbing somebody, you'll think twice before really doing so.

>> No.2431933
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2431933

>>2431877
not bad...

>> No.2431949

>>2431921

It's a proven fact that it does not.

>> No.2431952

>>2431949
citation?

>> No.2431957

>>2431949

If it were a more standard punishment and was applied more often than a jail sentence (which is should be in a lot of cases) then it probably would be a deterrent.

>> No.2431978

>>2431952
Google search dumb cunt. Proven numerous times that it's almost common knowledge.

Back to the kitchen please.

>> No.2431980

>>2431957
but no government would ever be able to implement that, unless they were so ruthlessly fascist their influence was worse than that of the criminals they killed. Even if the death penalty acts as a deterent, it shouldn't be used as one because it causes innocent people who don't need to die to be killed.

>> No.2431991

>>2431952
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-about-deterrence-and-death-penalty

>> No.2431992
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2431992

>>2431978
EK status
[ ] Not told
[X] Leo Toldstoy

>> No.2432013

>>2431978
twat

>> No.2432022

>>2432013

Told.

>> No.2432018

>>2431861

racist juries are more likely to judge minorities guilty*

Fixed that for you.

>> No.2432033

>>2431838
Death penalty should be standard for very severe crimes, like political corruption, massive ponzi schemes,corrupt judges, drug dealing and special cases of murder.
But when there is no explicit blood, people somehow believe they are less severe.I don't get it.Any of the above crimes are more severe than a murder committed by someone who as being bullied against the bully.

>> No.2432037

>>2431931
You're unemployed, and poor. You live in a neighbourhood filled with drug dealers, alcoholics and gangsters. Guess what, they're unemployed and poor too! You need money. You don't have anybody to borrow it from. Bank won't give you a loan. You are much more likely to commit crimes. Criminals don't usually do it because they enjoy stealing and robbing (if they do they're sociopaths, and need specialistic help). And harsh punishments won't help at all.

>> No.2432038

>>2432018
no, you just aded a completely irrelevant and equally true statement.

>> No.2432053

Either tons of stupid or tons of troll in this thread. Hard to tell sometimes!

>> No.2432082

>>2432022

Acting like a complete ass, out of character.

>> No.2432127
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2432127

>>2432018

>implying voir dire doesn't exist
>implying all whites are racist

>> No.2432130

Far more efficient than other forms of punishment.

>> No.2432131

No death penalty. Those who get a life sentence should spend the remainder of their days in human experimentation programs. For the common good, of course.

>> No.2432154

Yes for death penalty, some people just shouldnt be allowed to live. Its not about revenge, its about getting rid of a problem. If someone murders someone, they did not respect someones right to live, we should not respect theirs. Its a waste of money to keep them alive in jail. I do believe in humane methods for execution. I would however like to see death penalty used more often. Repeated offenses for more minor crimes should carry the death penalty (im talkin bout robbery/assault, not jaywalking). Those people who have been arrested like 30+ times for robbery/theft/assault should be put to death. Putting them back in society and saying "now that hes been punished, hell behave himself" is just plain stupid, clearly he wont.

>> No.2432160

There's an inherent flaw in the logic of capital punishment: criminals die anyway. Besides, life imprisonment is far greater torture than the release of sweet death.

>> No.2432169

>>2432160

And cheaper.

>> No.2432170

I think people on death row should be allowed to spend the rest of their life in jail without execution if they are given a job (in prison of course) such that they are able to pay for the cost of their own imprisonment or if they have loved ones that are willing to pay for them. If they are going to be a drain on society, and we cant let them out because theyre too dangerous, then I'm sorry, we should just put them to death. Keeping them alive is stupid.

>> No.2432177

I have a theory on peoples stance for death penalty. I think people who are pro-death (like me) are people who would rather die then spend the rest of the life in prison. While people that are anti-death, are people who, even if they committed a horrible crime they knew was wrong, would rather spend the rest of their life behind bars then have to face an early death.

Its kind of, the golden rule, ya know. For me, I sure wouldnt think someone wrong of executing me for committing a terrible crime.

>> No.2432198

>>2432177

If anything I would think it were the other way round. I'm pro death, but that's because I'd take life in prison over death any day. To me death is a greater punishment, so that's what I think should be enforced.

>> No.2432285

>>2432170
doesn't it cost more to execute someone because of all the bureacracy? not sure where but pretty sure I heard it from a reliable source, it surprised me.

>> No.2432333

>>2431866
>>2431866
>>2431866
>>2431866
>>2431866
>>2431866
>>2431866
>>2431866
/THREAD

>> No.2432349

>>2432154
>>2432154
>>2432154
>>2432154
>>2432154
>>2432154
>>2432154
>>2432154
>>2432154
>>2432154
>>2432154
dese bones

>> No.2432400

I volunteered for a parole board for one summer, helping prisoners who had been released for federal crimes integrate back into society.
What I realized was that most people who commit serious crimes have come to live in a mindset that says that law does not apply to them. They and all the people they hang out with feel the same way. They feel that the best way of living is to do whatever you want and avoid punishment of any kind. They feel that anyone who does otherwise is a chump. Sort of like what they describe in "Goodfellas", but usually on a smaller and less organized scale.
For these folks, no punishment is really a deterrent. They will do whatever they want, try as hard as they can to avoid punishment, and lie about their crimes if they think they can get out of punishment. It doesn't particularly matter if the punishment is death or 25 years in prison, they're going to try like hell to avoid it.
The one thing they won't do to avoid it is give up on a life of crime. That's just not the mindset. You don't do that unless you're a stupid nobody, in their culture.
The focus of a lot of prison programs is to get the prisoners to stop identifying with that way of life. The focus is to get them to start thinking of themselves as having an easier time and having more control over their future if they obey the law and start cooperating with other people rather than stealing from them.
A good 90% of the time the prison programs are not successful. That's why if it's considered likely that someone will reoffend, they will not be given parole and may be given a life sentence.
But capital punishment doesn't change any of that. It has absolutely no effect on crime. No studies say it does.

>> No.2432456

>>2431838
As implemented by the state, it's insanity.
As a defense of the person against the immanent threat of lethal force it is necessary.
If you assume that some personal, judgmental god or another exists then it is morally defensible when we have no other redress.
If, however, you recognize that no such god actually exists then the death penalty is a way to give up on people that are broken.

Crime is a failure of the carrot and stick behavioral training we typically use to create a set of socially acceptable behaviors for people to exhibit. For those who commit crimes for which time out (aka jail) is not enough to redeem them to society we need another method for correcting their behavior.
Currently we either kill them or cage them for life.
Both are failures and both are nonsense.
If the methods that work on the vast majority of people are failing on a small subset then we need a different treatment. It's really simple.
Find out what's different about them and either retrain their thinking or treat the disorder that is causing them to reject rational thinking.
Killing or caging them for life is not a solution, it's a surrender. We say, "We don't know how to fix them, so just get rid of them."
I submit that another way might yet be found.

>> No.2432472
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2432472

More expensive, irreversible mistakes, two wrongs don't make a right, death penalty doesn't act as a deterrent if you look at the stats, get that shit outta here.

>> No.2432488

>>2432472

>two wrongs don't make a right

How is killing a piece of shit murderer wrong?

>> No.2432497
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2432497

What we really need is a Superjail.

Nobody would ever commit any kind of crime when faced with the threat of being put there.

>> No.2432525

I liked the starship troopers view on corporal punishment, but if our system is going to make killing the guy more fucking expensive than keeling him alive than WTF?

>> No.2432532

Caged knife fights on Pay Per View. Help the economy, reduce the population, prisoners obviously don't need things like food and beds if they're going to die in the pits, so money saved. Everyone who matters is happy.

>> No.2432545

>>2432532

Modern day gladiator battles, fund it.

>> No.2432552

>>2432488
Well, I'll grant that that part of what I said was begging the question. But I'll rephrase, and say that I believe taking a life unnecessarily is wrong. Self-defense, good for you; saving another life, good for you; killing someone to satisfy some archaic eye-for-an-eye belief system, nope, sorry.

Of course they are pieces of shit. But just put them to work and focus the prison system on rehabilitating people. Rape in prison and corruption in general in the "justice" system just makes shit worse and worse.

>> No.2432583

>>2432456

Responding to your last point (too long to greentext), most of the people that are impossible to reform through conventional therapy are psychopaths. These people are basically entirely predatory. Complete symptoms are listed on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy)) but basically, how it manifests is someone without emotions, using people only as tools, short term thinking, obsessed entirely with immediate pleasure and engaging in manipulative behavior. It's estimated that somewhere around 1% of the total population "suffers" from this disorder. What causes it is unknown and it might even be present from birth. (not sure on this, I have not looked into it in a while) Roughly 20% of the prison population is psychopaths. The disorder is completely incurable at the moment and the only effective "treatment" is behavioral adjustment. Making the psychopath see that they can benefit more by forming lasting relationships, rather than using people as means to their ends. Currently it's not recognized by the DSM as a separate disorder.

http://www.hare.org/links/saturday.html

Interesting further reading, in case anyone is interested

>> No.2432605

>>2432497
I like that idea.

I think people who rape/kill/ should be put to death immediately after trial if found guilty..which is likely with most. Just hearing about that Dating Game killer pissed me off..he got is death penalty revoked so many fucking times it's not even funny. That fucker killed like 8 people and is still living to this day. I'd kill him myself and any other rapist if I could..it might sound crazy but they have no right to go around ruining people lives just because they came from a broken home...The American justice system is fucking stupid. Their are people in jail for selling huge amounts of weed for longer amounts of time than fucking pedophiles.

>> No.2433116
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2433116

I wouldn't say it should be a 'Standard Punishment'.

I think it should be a severe punishment for cases where the evidence is overwhelming and the crime was Murder 1 or equivalent.

Even then the wait should be at least 20 years or so.

Sage for no science.

....Also I'm from Texas and the Death Penalty is awesome and everyone from Texas should feel awesome for living in such an awesome state!

Fuck Yeah Death Penalty! Wooo!