/sci/ - Science & Math

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Anonymous Fri Jan 21 05:20:58 2011 No.2386198 [Reply] [Original]

What is /sci/ opinion on predetermined universe?
Yes/no, why or why not

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 21 05:33:58 2011 No.2386222 this thread is now about the use of psychedelic drugs

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 21 05:34:58 2011 No.2386223 I know there's a third eye, but has it been scientifically proven to be shown that you can "use" it?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 21 05:37:58 2011 No.2386229 Use it, in what way? It's "used" in the production of dimethyltryptamine, if I have my facts straight. Which I probably don't. >so much acid!

>>	Krakengineer !!5XY+x7grkpt Fri Jan 21 05:46:58 2011 No.2386248 The universe could only be predetermined by someone or something exempt from quantum indeterminacy. There is no reason to believe anything like this ever has or ever will exist.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 21 05:53:58 2011 No.2386268 i have no opinion either way i still 'think' i have a choice, so i'm happy enough

Anonymous Fri Jan 21 05:53:58 2011 No.2386271

I don't know what predetermined means. If it's some grand plan, I think it's mostly bullshit, if it's just a deterministic universe following deterministic laws, I think it's a solid possibility. It is one way of interpreting QM, even if a bit obtuse ( see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Broglie–Bohm_theory ). Other interpretations like MWI are okay too, although the exponential growth of possible universes is a bit annoying/hard to deal with it fact for me. ( No single deterministic universe in MWI, of course). That is not to say that even if you believe in a fully deterministic and single non-branching universe theory, would that say anything about predetermined quack things (god has a plan, blah blah, etc), it merely means that such an universe could be simulated without exponential memory needs, at least as far as it's discrete.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 21 05:58:58 2011 No.2386280 >>2386248 Wrong. The universe obeys laws from which we can view things being random but that is different from it also having a determined existence.

Krakengineer !!5XY+x7grkpt Fri Jan 21 06:28:58 2011 No.2386335

>>2386280
Nope.

predetermined
Root word is determine.
It is impossible for anyone or anything to ever completely determine the future state of the universe. The universe cannot be called predetermined if it is impossible to make this determination, even if there is some impossible to know singular outcome to every event.

Anonymous Fri Jan 21 06:37:58 2011 No.2386358

>>2386335
Well, technically if we live in The Matrix or something similar, then the computer tech monitoring The Matrix is not bound by the rules of quantum mechanics - specifically Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle - when observing our universe. The universe could be determinalistic - though present evidence poo poos on this idea, making it highly implausible.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 21 06:39:58 2011 No.2386359 No because quantum mechanics

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 21 06:43:58 2011 No.2386369 >>2386229 define "it" we could play this game forever

Anonymous Fri Jan 21 10:42:58 2011 No.2386975

>>2386335
I think you're wrong in that assumption.
Just because humans can't predict the outcome of events due to the random nature governing the laws of the universe it does not mean that, beyond our understanding of how time and space works, the universe cannot be self contained and therefore be predetermined.

Late response I know...

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 21 10:43:58 2011 No.2386981 Quantum mechanics says no, unless you think a nonlocal universe is more reasonable than a nondeterministic one (NOPE). You can't have both.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 21 10:44:58 2011 No.2386984 >>2386975 You'd have to buy into something like the Bohm interpretation of QM. Which I don't.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 21 10:45:58 2011 No.2386988 Yes. Heisenberg uncertainty principle is faith based, like much of qm

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 21 10:48:58 2011 No.2386999 >>2386988 >Heisenberg uncertainty principle is faith based, like much of qm Taking blatant flamebaiting to a whole new level.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 21 10:50:58 2011 No.2387007 File: 169 KB, 800x723, 1280314846605.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2386999 >He thinks there aren't multiple interpretations of qm

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 21 10:53:58 2011 No.2387016 >>2387007 >implying that has anything to do with the uncertainty principle, or that there are interpretations of QM that make it just "go away"

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 21 10:56:58 2011 No.2387024 File: 10 KB, 215x120, kimiko9.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2386988 When I meet people like you I wish Hell were real.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 21 10:58:58 2011 No.2387035 >>2387016 >Implying that because is poorly understood now that it will remain poorly understood >He doesn't understand why I pointed out the fact there are multiple faith based interpretations of qm >Americunt detected

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