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/sci/ - Science & Math

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2365360 No.2365360 [Reply] [Original]

emotions: why do we need them?
would we be better off without them?

>> No.2365381

Emotions are probably just as much as a coincidence as life itself. And we don't need them. Other animals don't.

>> No.2365382

Emotion is essential to our survival. It's what moves us and gives us motivation. We could actually live without logic but not without emotion. So no.

>> No.2365385

>>2365346

>why?
>What's the point in being productive?
depends on what i'm doing. to make money, perhaps. or to do some studying that i need to do.
>Without emotions there is no meaning to anything.
meaning is subjective anyway. you could say that without god there is no meaning to life, and yet we are all still happy living it, arn't we?
>I know you care about your emotions. Otherwise you'd have an hero'd once you realised life is completely and utterly pointless.
i care about them enough to repress them.
...perhaps it is because i repress them that i do not an hero.

>> No.2365399

>>2365385

why earn money if you do not care about emotions?
You say people are "happy" living a life with no meaning.
You obviously care about your long-term happiness. Stop pretending otherwise.

>> No.2365400

>>2365381
find me an animal that cant feel fear pain or lust. well, an animal that walks on land and has a spine, i mean.

>> No.2365404

>>2365385
You suppress emotions to stay productive. Yet emotions cause productivity?

>> No.2365406

>>2365400

This. I presume that most vertebrates experience emotions in one way or another.

They're really just advanced instincts.

>> No.2365408

>>2365399
>ou obviously care about your long-term happiness. Stop pretending otherwise.
yes. i'll grant you that. i like being happy (hence why i frequently get high and get laid, and such like.

but do you deny that repressing the unhelpful emotions is a bad thing?

>> No.2365411

Emotions are a way for our selfish genes to manipulate us into doing what they want.
They should be questionned and ignored when they go against our rational goal to increase our long-term happiness and decrease societal suffering.

Remove emotions from the picture completely and there is no rational reason to do ANYTHING. Life would be completely pointless.

>> No.2365417

>>2365400
rare examples of humans for one
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_insensitivity_to_pain

however, i dont consider pain itself to be an emotion, not by itself anyway, its just an input, like one of your senses. i dont repress pain, i dont think its even possible to...but ive not tried.
i don't mind it, in fact it is helpful because it is just my body reminding me to avoid similar situations like that in the future. so its helpful.

>> No.2365423

>>2365408

An emotion isn't unhelpful just because you don't like it. For example, sadness just might exist as incentive for you to stop making the same mistake twice.

>> No.2365432

>>2365404
really? which?
are really angry people productive?
how about jealous people, or depressed people?
anyone?

>>2365411
hate to break it to you buddy, but life IS completely pointless.
seeing as im here, i will pretty much try to make myself happy as often as i can, and those that i really like (love?) happy as often as i can as well.
and while im at it, maybe i'll help the future of the world by contributing something and advancing science if i can.

>> No.2365435

>>2365382
I have actually given this a fair amount of thought.

>> No.2365437

>>2365408

No. I'm all for suppressing harmful, selfish emotions, such as the desire to casually fuck girls i would never consider worthy of a relationship.
My long-term happiness and that of everyone in society is best served with monogamy. Everyone is guaranteed a mate for life of their own standard and the chance to raise children if they wish.

That is the key to lasting happiness (on both a societal and ann individual level).

>> No.2365441

>>2365423
>incentive for you to stop making the same mistake twice.
thats what pain is for. and pain is a sense/input
not an emotion/process.
sadness doesn't benefit me at all. its a waste of time to just be BAWWWing about the past which i cant change. far better to accept what has happened has happened, and move on with my life.

>> No.2365442

>>2365437
Seconded.
I'm expecting a wave of irrationality from EK, though.

>> No.2365444

>>2365441
>implying all mistakes cause physical pain

>> No.2365448

>>2365360
Emotions are how your subconscious brain works. They're only slightly more complex than feelings of pain.

>> No.2365452

>>2365382
bull shit emotion does not drive us our ego does

>> No.2365459

>>2365360
Without emotions, patients in clinical studies could not make evaluations of even simple things like whether something was desirable or undesirable.

Emotions are important for proper prioritization, motivation, and self-critical improvement. Without emotionality, you can not comprehend the emotional states of others intuitively. It impairs empathy. It isolates and alienates those afflicted with the numbness of feeling. As problematic as being blind, deaf, or a leper.

>> No.2365464

>>2365437
>My long-term happiness and that of everyone in society is best served with monogamy.
not everyone is the same. what makes you happy, may not work for everyone.

>>2365444
not all pain is physical.

>> No.2365471

hipsters: why bother to reply them?

>> No.2365476

>>2365437
>I'm all for suppressing harmful, selfish emotions, such as the desire to casually fuck girls i would never consider worthy of a relationship.
its not harmful, pleasure is gained, nothing is lost. for both sides.
its also not necessarily selfish, if you desire for the other person to enjoy the sex as well, and are not just interested in yourself. i for one have never ever done it selfishly.

>> No.2365479

>>2365459
I've read those studies too. And I think you're right. This seems much more reasonable.

This shouldn't be confused with irrationality. As EK clearly demonstrates, suppressing emotion clearly doesn't produce rationality. It's a false dichotomy.

>> No.2365482

>>2365441
sadness = pain

when we were evolving the social fabric and sticking toegether was a needed trait so the emnotion of sadness from social situations is an involuntary reflex stemming from damage to the clan as a whole.

another cause of sadness is rejection - we are programmed be sad when rejected as if we are rejected as a mating partner would result in the removal of your genes from the pool - therefore only those who are motivated by rejection to continue the pursuit were more likely to pass on their programming

>> No.2365487

>Without emotionality, you can not comprehend the emotional states of others intuitively. It impairs empathy.

nope, i am still aware of the emotions other people feel. i am good at reading people, it is a good skill because i can predict quite accurately how they are going to act (in the short term)
on the other hand, i am completely unreadable most of the time. my face stays completely blank and passive. it makes me unpredicable..and i kinda like it.

>> No.2365488

>>2365476
There are those who argue that this behavior precludes the possibility of a stable pair-bonding, which can be considered more valuable to personal happiness.

>> No.2365491

>>2365487
> it makes me unpredicable..and i kinda like it.
If that's not emotional, I don't know what is.

>> No.2365497 [DELETED] 

>emotions: why do we need them?
For proper decision-making and value judgments.
>would we be better off without them?
No.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotions_in_decision_making

That said, learning critical thinking skills is also very valuable. The two are not in contradictory.

>> No.2365498

>>2365482
>sadness = pain
no, but pain does often result in sadness for most people.
>another cause of sadness is rejection
it results in a type of non-physical pain that most people inflict involuntarily upon themselves in these circumstances.

>> No.2365499

>emotions: why do we need them?
For proper decision-making and value judgments.
>would we be better off without them?
No.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotions_in_decision_making

That said, learning critical thinking skills is also very valuable. The two are not contradictory.

>> No.2365500

>emotions

They are a product of how your brain works. The way you interpret information, a way to make decisions about things. You don't have a choice about having them.

>> No.2365503

I get the impression that OP is borderline sociopath or living completely and totally in fantasy.

>> No.2365508

>>2365491
i still have likes and dislikes.

>>2365497
>For proper decision-making and value judgments.
no, i can use logic alone, for this.

>> No.2365510

>>2365503
Strong delusion about personal thought processes seems about right. So, the latter more than the former.

>> No.2365515

EK is being retarded about evolution again : (

>> No.2365516

>>2365508
You don't know what I mean, here. With how the brain functions, you cannot make good judgments without the involvement of emotional processes. This does not preclude rationality - rationality also uses emotional processes.
http://cercor.oxfordjournals.org/content/10/3/295.full
http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/05/04/star-trek%E2%80%99s-error-spock%E2%80%99s-lack-of-emotio
n-would-have-made-him-irrational/

>> No.2365523

>>2365516
Second link, about the guy who lost the ability to process/have emotions:
>“he was even less able to care about things or to rank priorities. He could stick obsessively to a task and perform it well; but on a whim he might shift attention and do something completely different. Intelligence testing showed him to be a superior intellect. His emotions were askew, though. He could no longer set priorities or make decisions. He had no sense of the relative importance of any situation. "
Sounds about right. Value judgments about what is important require emotional processes. How to accomplish goals is more cognitive/rational.

>> No.2365534

>>2365476
Here you're supposing that both sides weigh physical pleasure (if the girl is truly receiving the amount you assume she is) the same way. The gilr may have gotten similar physical pleasure, but because of this, craved more emotional pleasure that you do not wish to give. Therefore, she ultimately feels more sadness because of the exchange- and the problem is that it's almost impossible to judge how she truly feels about it. You cannot assume how people will feel.

>>2365487
>>2365487
You aren't as good at reading people as you think. For every person that's good at reading, there is another that's good at acting. If you're a smart person and good at acting, it's incredibly easy to fool even a trained psychologist.

And as far as being "unreadable"- that's just a fantasy, one that sounds like it would come from someone so insecure as to have to hide basic human emotions to create a shallow sense of "mystery" that is, unfortunately, based on old Hollywood movies rather than reality. Sorry!

>> No.2365536

>>2365508
How the hell do you use logic to make value judgments? I think you just have an unrealistic view of your own decision-making process.

>> No.2365537

>>2365417
Why is pain an input, but depression not?

>> No.2365543

You need emotion to provide goals. The rational, logical part of your mind is excellent at solving problems, but does not provide problems that need solving. Emotion provides these, like the desire for survival, sex, etc. Without emotion you would be like a computer - you would just sit there doing nothing until you were given instructions.

>> No.2365555

>>2365500
>You don't have a choice about having them.
you can, they can be repressed. but it is difficult and takes time.
worth it in the long run though.

>>2365503
>OP is borderline sociopath or living completely and totally in fantasy.
i am not a sociopath because i have friends, and i care a lot about their safety and happiness. i don't live in fantasy because i care deeply about science, and about what is real.

>> No.2365557

I get sort of scared when science-minded (OP?) people suggest we don't need something like emotions. It seems so ignorant, and sort of helps promote this cold, evil view of scientists.

We could survive without emotions if we were built like an insect. Unfortunately, we are not. Our consciousness has evolved higher than any animal for a reason. And we have to deal with everything that comes with it- including complicated subjective experiences.

To get rid of these emotions, rather than dealing with them, is devolution, and I'm not sure what would be the point of this.

>> No.2365582

>>2365537
pain is an input because it is something from the outside which goes to your brain for processing. (the central nervous system, etc)
depression is something you feel which has originated from the brain itself, and is something that is emotional. because it didn't come from an external source, it is a process and not an input.

also, some of you may have the wrong impression, and think i dont feel any emotions at all.
this isnt the case, i still like feeling happy, and horny, and high, and things like this (good, non harmful emotions) but i try to repress the unhelpful ones which are unhelpful. (jealousy, anger, hatred, depression)

>> No.2365590

>>2365582
So you basically meditate?

>> No.2365598

>>2365487
Chances are you aren't missing the portion of the brain that handles emotionality. What you're doing is likely suppressing or repressing your emotional response. It's called dissociation, and it's problematic for social functionality.

Rather than being unable to read emotional states in others, you probably distort them. Your ability to read emotions in others is going to return bad output frequently, and you won't be able to recognize that. People express superficial affect all the time.

Like you. I've read you. You think your face is blank, but you don't know about micro-expressions or cognitive incongruity. Blanking your face actually makes reading your internal emotional state way easier because the involuntary facial twitches that betray dissociative states has less background noise. Makes discriminating signal from noise easier.

>> No.2365607

>>2365555
now we are just arguing about what the word emotion means

there's a certain way the brain works, there's no one part of it thats only rational, or only emotional.

>> No.2365611

>>2365543
perhaps, but emotion is a broad term.
those unhelpful emotions that i mentioned do not help in forming goals.

>>2365557

>Our consciousness has evolved higher than any animal for a reason. And we have to deal with everything that comes with it- including complicated subjective experiences.

it could be, that in our evolution certain emotions were helpful to us, but now their use has ended.
religion was useful for the growth of culture and civilisation to begin with, but now its use has expired, and it is a hindrance.
so in the same way, certain emotions arn't helpful anymore.
keep in mind that emotion is a broad term, there are lots of them, and some are stronger than others, its not an all or nothing situation, and i am not suggesting i am robotic, and i certainly wouldnt want to be.

>> No.2365617

>>2365555
OP's a borderline personality with dissociative tendencies in all probability. She's probably been the victim of abusive caretakers. Unfortunate dysfunction.

If you really want to control your emotional state, stop denying your emotionality. Accept your sadness. Accept your disgust. Accept your fear. Accept your frustration. Accept your surprise. Accept your joy.

Emotions are a feedback loop which uses regulation and amplification. You control that loop if you accept it, know it, understand it, feel it. Self-deception leads to self-abuse and self-destructive tendencies.

>> No.2365626

>>2365611
This is true, we don't need certain emotions, but like I explained earlier, it's hard to find a consensus as to what emotions are "important". For instance, the pleasure you receive from one night stand sex I find an easy, fleeting distraction. It may feel good, but the course of the emotion is so short lived that I find it in the same category as stuffing your face with unhealthy foods. But many would disagree.

I will agree that we need to focus more on training our emotions, meditating and evolving our own subjective experiences. We need to evolve our ego and learn to step away from it.

Unfortunately, when you say this, many think you're referring to something religious, which I am not.

>> No.2365630

>>2365590
yes.
...how did you know? i didn't actually put it like that, because i thought religious or spiritual connotations might be attached to it...

>>2365598
>Rather than being unable to read emotional states in others, you probably distort them. Your ability to read emotions in others is going to return bad output frequently
but i can read the emotions correctly. its just a matter of experience. you see the 'warning signs' (beginnings of emotion) and based on what similar people have done in the past, you can guess how they will act, and react accordingly. and i know that i can accurately read them, because in nearly all cases, they react as i presume they will.
also, by simply using meaningless words such as 'i'm sorry', 'please', 'thankyou', etc you can diffuse situations and have them go more to your liking because he persons emotional self responds differently if certain words or phrases like this are used.

>> No.2365632

>>2365582
That distinction seems... unreasonably arbitrary.

>> No.2365639

>>2365630
I know because it sounds exactly like meditating.

I keep bringing him up, because I love the guy, but Sam Harris is trying to focus on how extreme meditation and solitude can actually help us change our perception in life.

If you've seen his speech to the Athiest Alliance (or whatever the fuck its called), you see he has some misunderstanding in the same way you're talking about
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KG5s_-Khvg

Basically whenever he talks about spirituality or meditation, people assume he's talking about religion.

>> No.2365643

>>2365360
post pics of yourself, EK

>> No.2365654

>>2365607
>there's a certain way the brain works, there's no one part of it thats only rational, or only emotional.

the brain works differently when a person is being extremely emotional.

>>2365617
>She's probably been the victim of abusive caretakers.
no, and how did you come to that conclusion?

>Accept your sadness. Accept your disgust. Accept your fear. Accept your frustration. Accept your surprise. Accept your joy.
sadness doesn't help at all, this is one it is certainly a great idea to repress.
dont often get disgusted anymore...maybe seen one too many gore threads on /b/...
i dont need fear, i can use logic alone to avoid dangerous situations. fear might also prevent one from standing up and being defiant, when this might be the right thing to do.
i dont get frustrated, i just keep on trying.
i do still feel suprise and joy

>> No.2365655

Wait, EK is a female?

I suddenly don't even care about the discussion but will continue arguing with her, trying to date her over the internet. SORRY

>> No.2365658

So... EK is a monumental faggot? or are we being trolled?

>> No.2365660

>>2365654
ugh, just shut up. Are you 12?

>> No.2365662

>>2365654
Even buddhists teach not to surpress emotions, but master them. They value sadness and fear. What they don't value is having a knee-jerk reaction to these things.

Sadness helps amplify the feeling of joy, makes us strive for it, and in conjunction with empathy, makes us want to help others.

Fear gives us an obstacle to reach our goals and also keeps us alive. EVERYBODY is afraid of something. Even Ted Bundy was afraid of the electric chair. It's just that there are different levels of fear (short-term, long-term) and there is nothing bad about fear (just like sadness).

It's how you study and deal with these emotions that matter.

>> No.2365668

>>2365662
>>2365662
Also, think of this- if someone is dying, and afraid of dying- what would help more? Avoiding talking about death, or sitting and speaking with them compassionately and openly about their approaching death? What would make them feel more at ease? More happy? To have a conversation, a connection of sympathy and empathy with another human, or to never speak of the death, speak of it in euphemisms, avoid it, etc? Which one is easier to do?

Think about it. A lot of the problems in our history come from RESPRESSING and CENSORING emotions, rather than accepting and studying them deeply.

>> No.2365678

>Sadness helps amplify the feeling of joy, makes us strive for it, and in conjunction with empathy, makes us want to help others.

No

>> No.2365684

>>2365626
yeah, often joy is shortlived, but so what? there can always be another spliff, another night of passion, another game, another sport.
happiness can be achieved in lots of ways, and you take the fact that it will be shortlived in each individual instance for granted.
happiness actually means something because it isnt the norm, you feel the improvement in your emotional state. if you were happy all the time and it wasnt short-lived, this would just be the norm. and would not be as good as when you can remember when you were not happy, to contrast it with.

>>2365632
we talked about this before, didn't we?
inputs are senses, and they go to the brain from the outside (eyes for seeing, ears for the senses of hearing and equilibrioception, etc, the information all ends up in your brain.
it is processed by your thoughts (governed by logic, and emotion...moreso by logic if some of the emotions can be repressed) and then the outputs come from the brain via motor neurons so that you act...or speak.

>>2365639
he's a pretty cool guy who doesn't afraid of anything. he wrote 'letter to a christian nation' and 'the end of faith' which were both pretty awesome books i think.

>> No.2365686

>>2365678
I love your witty one word argument. Congratulations on your new internet connection!

>> No.2365688
File: 2 KB, 117x82, meonholiday.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2365688

>>2365643
there you go

>> No.2365690

>>2365684

We have emotions to save time in order keep going and keep fucking.

>> No.2365696

EK are you a hot British girl with nice boobs? This variable could significantly change my thoughts on your arguments.

>> No.2365699

>>2365684
> we talked about this before, didn't we?
Indeed.

> inputs are senses, and they go to the brain from the outside (eyes for seeing, ears for the senses of hearing and equilibrioception, etc, the information all ends up in your brain.
Exactly. So whether it is from the "outside" (whatever that means) or not, it's all in the brain. Like emotion. If one is useful, so is the other.

>> No.2365701

>>2365696 Here

>>2365690 My point exactly :P

>>2365696 Here

>> No.2365702

>>2365688
don't tease :p

>> No.2365707

>>2365658
if i'm wrong, or trolling, then you should very easily be able to point out how i am wrong.

>>2365660
ad hominems make baby jesus cry...

>>2365662
>EVERYBODY is afraid of something.
i guess i fear pain. and rape. not spiders, wasps, death, god, or the dark, or any of the usual things people tend to be afraid of.

>>2365668
other people would be far more suited than me to attempt such a conversation. i wouldn't know what to say...but there would always be someone else they could talk to.

>> No.2365711

>>2365707
It's just that this is such an odiously immature topic of discussion.

>> No.2365717

>>2365690

Psychfag here, actually hit the nail right on the head :O

>> No.2365725

>>2365711
Keep bumping it, then, to show us all how dumb it is.

>> No.2365726

>>2365696
my gender, nationality, and boobage are all irrelevant to the discussion.

>>2365699
but emotions come directly from the brain. senses do not. that is the distinction between inputs and processes. also, do you consider ALL emotions to be useful?
>from the "outside" (whatever that means)
from outside of the brain, so the information had to travel to the brain first, before it could be processed.

>>2365702
heheh :D. okay i'll stop.

>> No.2365728

>>2365725
Well, come one. "Hurrp durrp, I don't need emotions, I soo cool and edgy".
It's teenage bullshit.

>> No.2365732

>>2365711
i disagree, but if that is the way you feel, then go to a different thread. some people here care about the topic.

>> No.2365735

>>2365728
its true; there are certain emotions i don't need. this is a fact.
im not saying any of this to be cool or edgy. how is repressing emotion cool anyway? i dont do it to be cool, its just that an emotional person is not what i wanted to be, i wanted to be logical and scientific. thats what i strive towards.

>> No.2365736

Emotions motivate us to do things that result in our continued survival.

>> No.2365738

>>2365735
Then you've already failed if you can't see the logical and scientific reasons why emotions are essential and inescapable.

>> No.2365740

>>2365735

Aren't striving and wanting something emotions? i.e motivation?

>> No.2365745

>>2365726
> but emotions come directly from the brain. senses do not.
Well, I'm a philosophical idealist. Never seen this as a distinction.
> that is the distinction between inputs and processes.
Well, you seem to think it is a distinction. Why you would insist on some kind of ontology in order to rule out one kind of phenomena as unimportant is questionable to me.
> also, do you consider ALL emotions to be useful?
Certainly.
> from outside of the brain, so the information had to travel to the brain first, before it could be processed.
Information is not an abstract, mind-independent thing-in-itself, and even if I were to charitably grant you that it were, it still doesn't indicate why we should disregard "processes" from "information." I mean, even if I grant you this distinction... so what? How does it demonstrate a lack of utility?

Emotions are not purely subjective phenomena. Sadness can be shared, through empathy. Love is something induced by the existence of another, not some kind of spontaneous, uncaused event in the brain. (Presumably even your materialist metaphysic would suggest that emotions have some cause...)

>> No.2365748

>>2365707
I guarantee you're afraid of being alone, being excluded, being rejected. I almost guarantee you're afraid of dying.

You're right about pain being a sensation not an emotion. Emotions are formed around sensations, about sensations. Fear can arise from pain. Protect yourself from suffering by suppressing your fear response. It'll work to delay, but one day, you will have to face that fear. Courage is not the absence of fear, it is embracing that fear and overcoming it. Similarly, joy is not the absence of sadness.

Embrace your emotions, they have their uses. Light without darkness is blindness.

>> No.2365751

>>2365738
>emotions are essential and inescapable.

some emotions are essential. some are not. there are a lot of different emotions.
similarly, some might be inescapable, and some are not.

>> No.2365752

>>2365736

If that were completely true, people would NEVER commit suicide. To clarify we have evolved emotions in the way we have because they have helped us survive then.

>> No.2365755

>>2365740
like i said, i dont repress all emotions, just a small subset of them.
i still have likes/dislikes, i still like being happy, horny, high, etc.

>> No.2365762

>>2365751
All emotions are essential for normal operation.

Whether or not it's optimal to operate normally is a whole different matter.

But they ARE Inescapable. Unless you suffer brain damage or have some good drugs, you can't change the nature of you emotions simply by willing it.

>> No.2365776

Of course we dont need emotions. over time, the mind had an evolution of its own. as society became a lot more complex, so did the mind in order to survive the said CUMplexity. i blame the niggers and jews

>> No.2365777

>>2365745
>Well, I'm a philosophical idealist. Never seen this as a distinction.
you are aware, i presume, that information from the eye, for example, travels from the optic nerve to the brain, and using this information, the brain visualises what is in front of us. you will presumably not deny that the eye is outside of the brain, it is a seperate entity.
emotions are made in the brain, obviously they come from no other seperate entity. so they are not inputs.

>rule out one kind of phenomena as unimportant is questionable to me.
information such as sight and hearing is useful and important. i doubt anyone would deny this. certain emotions such as jealousy are unimportant are are not useful. do you disagree?
how is depression a useful emotion? what about anger? greed| hatred? you said you think ALL are useful, so you must mean these as well.
...if you can, list situations in which they could help an individual.

>> No.2365784

I want to marry EK, so I think I would be better off not daydreaming about that, which I wouldn't be if I could rid myself of some emotions!

>> No.2365788

>>2365777
Greed is important because it motivates one to attain things that are beneficial. Same with jealousy.

And depression is VERY useful and important, hold on while I find the links to prove it.

>> No.2365806

>>2365755

>>2365762
This anon's correct. Without brain damage to certain portions of the brain responsible with emotive response, you feel emotions. Even the one's you repress. Repressed emotions are unresolved conflicts waiting to happen, waiting to be expressed. You have quite a few of them; hence, your confrontational user mentality and your need to seek attention by creating drama. The fact that you post here pseudonymously in a clearly identifiable way tells me there's someone who has a deficit of positive, meaningful, constructive social interaction on the other side, who's crying out for attention even negative attention.

>> No.2365812

>>2365777
deprresios is usefull goes it gives you great music, you ignorant fuck.

>> No.2365817

>>2365788
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=depressions-evolutionary

http://www.iftf.org/node/3079

http://lifehacker.com/5483797/the-evolutionary-reason-for-depression

Ta da. To quote the eloquent motherfuckers at Cracked.com:
>Being able to play out different situations in your mind and predict possible outcomes is not just essential to surviving the social jungle, it's also the basis of all problem solving. Basically every scientific or creative breakthrough in human history can trace its roots to some sweaty palmed caveman sitting alone in his hut fretting about whether the other cavemen think he's cool.

>> No.2365821

>>2365748
>I guarantee you're afraid of being alone, being excluded, being rejected.
no. i admit i would not be very happy if there was no one at all to socialise or communicate with, but i do not fear this because i see it as an impossibility. i have my friends, family and lovers, and am confident none of them would ever leave or reject me.

>I almost guarantee you're afraid of dying.
i fear the pain of death, as i fear most pain, but the actual dieing wouldn't bother me. i do not believe in heaven and hell, and i think there is nothing at all after death. the prospect of simply not existing doesn't scare me at all. i didn't exist for thousands of years, and it did me no harm. i take for granted that i will die one day. i may as well accept it.
>Courage is not the absence of fear, it is embracing that fear and overcoming it.
yes. pic related.
>Embrace your emotions, they have their uses.
all of them? i think some have no use to me.

>> No.2365823
File: 59 KB, 400x400, cw1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2365823

>>2365821

>> No.2365824

>>2365806
I want to point your attention towards this post, EK, because it quite articulately expresses my emotions about this thread.
>>2365806
>>2365806
>>2365806
>>2365806

>> No.2365837

>>2365821
>I think some have no use to me.

And you're wrong. Do you really think your meager intellect and understanding can rival the end results of millions of years of evolution?

It's ironic that you certainly feel this way BECAUSE of emotions, and not because of rational, objective analysis.

>> No.2365850

Ok, I'm going to break this down.
We have developed emotional and cognitive functions over time through a combination of natural and sexual selection. Emotions are generally high induced areas of brain activity, or synthesised drugs in the brain that affects the mental state.

So that is why we HAVE them.

We NEED for the same reason we have HAVE them, in order to continue surviving and carrying on the species as effectively as the human condition will allow in our current environment, but they are not perfect for our society and place in the world right now.

Now in our lives we experience alot of emotions, ranging in intensity and frequency. Some are inappropriate for our current state, or most circumstantially your current state (simply consequentially as the world has changed from those hundreds of thousauds of years of genetic programming) .

Some of these need to be repressed - like the urge to punch someone in the fucking face when they have annoyed you, carrying out those violent fantasties is some embracing of spiritual experience or journey. Moreover if all you seek is pleasure you will get addicted to things very quickly. All people need an appropriate amount of emotional self-regulation.

>> No.2365851

>>2365777
> you will presumably not deny that the eye is outside of the brain, it is a seperate entity.
Well, we can call it a separate bit. It is useful, in some circumstances, to conceptually separate eyes from brains. But so what? You can separate different areas of the brain, too. Would you say that the brain is outside the brain? Or that the hippocampus is outside the prefrontal cortex? If a signal came to the cortex from the hippocampus, is it ignorable or not?

> emotions are made in the brain, obviously they come from no other seperate entity. so they are not inputs.
You keep repeating this. Are you a dualist? Is there mind-stuff, and stuff-stuff, and never the twain shall meet? Because otherwise I can't understand the point of the distinction.

> information such as sight and hearing is useful and important. i doubt anyone would deny this.
Whether we deny it or not is not going to help your position, as most of us aren't denying the usefulness of other brain phenomena, like love.

> how is depression a useful emotion? what about anger? greed| hatred? you said you think ALL are useful, so you must mean these as well.
I do. I think they are all useful. But I cannot explain why I think so to you, because you have already discounted them. If I could understand your reasons for discounting them, I might be able to explain their utility better.
> ...if you can, list situations in which they could help an individual.
Understand these are just hypothetical explanations. But. Jealousy could correspond to resource acquisition and defense (important for all organisms.) Hatred, rage, and such, could be an adaptation found from tit-for-tat strategies, long-understood to be fairly optimal in cooperative games. (Game theory.) Greed is so obviously about resource acquisition that its application to evolution is clear.

>> No.2365852
File: 31 KB, 363x310, bender_laugh_moar.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2365852

>emotions are not inputs.

>> No.2365856

> carrying out those violent fantasties is NOT some embracing of spiritual experience or journey.
Nothing to be gained yo

>> No.2365874

Emotions aren't a lot of use, but there's also not a lot you can do about them. I tried the stoic thing for a decade or so; it turns out that your various emotions just well up beneath the surface and occasionally explode in unexpectable fashions.

Maybe neuropsych will offer salvation from the tyranny of your heart someday, but for now one can only accept that one is human and live accordingly, acknowledging its driving forces openly.
>cuniftauces Yeaggy
Ah, yes, Captcha, a favourite nickname of Chuck Yeager's. Nobody knows what "cuniftauces" is about.

>> No.2365885

>>2365762

>you can't change the nature of you emotions simply by willing it.
you can. like i said, it takes time, and meditation.
at first, you will still feel the emotion, but you will aware of what you are feeling, realise it is not what you want, and therefore not act on it. you still think on it, and might be pissed off, but you hold your tongue, and act as if you did not feel the emotion at all.
after you get used to doing this, it starts to come naturally, and you wont need to act anymore, and will cease feeling that particular emotion all together.

>>2365784
marriage serves no purpose. the legal document is just a piece of paper with some ink on it, and the ring is just some tatty jewelry.
i choose to not ever get married.

>>2365788
greed may inspire us to be selfish and take things for ourselves, but i dont wish to act this way. i take what i require, but nothing more. i realise that if i do not suppress greed, other people will lose out, there will be less of [insert resource here] for everybody else, if i am greedy.

>>2365806
>hence, your confrontational user mentality
but notice how i havent told anyone to fuck off or called them a faggot? i dont think i am being confrontational. i am just debating my views.
>seek attention by creating drama.
im interested in the discussion. i wouldnt refer to it as 'drama' and it isnt attention i want for myself, just the topic.

>> No.2365902

>>2365821
>>2365850
>Embrace your emotions, they have their uses.
all of them? i think some have no use to me.
The above anon clearly articulates the problem of repressing things like sadness and fear: without those systems of regulation, you're prone to addictions. Addiction to affection, addiction to stimulation, addiction to attention, addiction to pharmaceuticals.

Such attachment is the very root of suffering. You're attached to not having the dark or negative emotions which means you are susceptible to ego-death and the accompanying crises that accompany such attachment.

Playing life by repressing some or all of your emotions is like playing chess by excluding some of the pieces. Refusing to use rooks or knights because they're not always immediately useful. Refusing to risk losing a piece because it's not immediately obvious that the loss of that piece is beneficial.

What you describe leads to a hedonistic lifestyle which is as destructive as an ascetic lifestyle. Either extreme is going to cause you to suffer.

>> No.2365926

>>2365850
>All people need an appropriate amount of emotional self-regulation.
good. this is what i do.

>>2365851
interesting post... i don't know much about the different areas of the brain, or how they communicate with each other.
...
i think i agree with you, but i still don't particularly like emotions like greed, anger, etc, so i'll continue to repress them.
i cant justify it...but even though i repress them i still function perfectly well, so they cant be completely vital.

>> No.2365930

Without emotions, there would be no value judgments. Without any value judgments there would be no sentient activity.

No proof needed. Just think about it. If you had no emotions at all; no more happiness and no more sadness. You expect nothing, literally. Nothing is expected. Just for good measure... NOTHING.

Try to wrap your brain around feeling NOTHING, expecting NOTHING, and still continuing to "try" and live. Emotions are genetic mutations which we have because they helped our species survive.

Whoever said animals don't feel anything; I facepalm.

>> No.2365948

You're attached to not having the dark or negative emotions which means you are susceptible to ego-death and the accompanying crises that accompany threat to such attachment. "Zombie as the emotional-master" is threatened every time you feel an emotion involuntarily.

If you repress your emotions rather than experience and resolve them consciously as they arise, one day, you will break. The sadness will well up from within and you will be in tears if you're lucky, unresponsively depressed if you're unlucky.

You might be able discern the emotional state of others, but in such a depression, you will be apathetic. Without emotional intelligence, you won't want to care about what other people feel or think. You will close yourself off to suffering and paradoxically suffer while closing yourself off from the suffering of others when they could help you through empathic embrace.

More over, even if you succeed at repressing your emotions without breaking, others will watch you and they will realize the mask you wear. They will realize something isn't right about you and they will withdraw. What you become to the most sensitive of us is a predator seeking only for sensory gratification with little regard for and little understand of the emotional wellbeing of others.

I know who you are, and I avoid you in person. As cute as you are, I recognize you're dangerous and at this time incapable of real social and emotional connection. At best, you're a user in romantic relationships incapable of fully appreciating the other for who they are. You'd never make it into my circle of trust because you aren't trust worthy. You're dishonest with yourself about your emotions.

>> No.2365962

>>2365874
>I tried the stoic thing for a decade or so; it turns out that your various emotions just well up beneath the surface and occasionally explode in unexpectable fashions.
really?
...this hasn't happened to me yet. i dont think it will..

>>2365902
another good post...
erm.
addiction is kinda an emotional thing in itself. if i can repress emotions, i can repress addiction. its just a matter of willpower. im not addicted to anything...well, i need to eat, or i die, but hunger is physical pain, so im going to have to obey it.
...how is a hedonistic lifestyle destructive? destructive to what?

>> No.2365980
File: 14 KB, 407x286, 1289859676556.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2365980

>>2365516
>>2365499
>>2365817
>mfw scientific studies on the necessity of emotion in functional decision-making are ignored ITT, replaced by troll-feeding and attention-whoring

>> No.2365982

>>2365962
Maybe you're a better stoic, dear; or perhaps you're a mutant and weren't grown with the code for emotions in. I'd bet you have emotions but you're calling them something else.

>> No.2365988

Why do people hate EK so much?

>> No.2365992

>>2365926
Blind people function well. Deaf people function well. People that have lost limbs function well.

I'm not sure that's the criterion you should be focused on.

>> No.2365993

>>2365930
i dont want no emotions at all, i just dont want all of them either.
the middle ground...thats where i'm a. feelsgoodman.

>>2365948
...didn't realise it was you.

erm. i need to think on this. screencapped.
goodnight everyone.

>> No.2365998

>>2365988
>implying anyone on 4chan likes attention whores

>> No.2366008

EK never said she doesn't experience emotions.

>> No.2366011

>>2365998
How is she an attention whore?

>> No.2366012

>>2365948
You know EK? Post pics! It's not like she'd get angry. She chooses to repress those feelings.

>> No.2366016

emotions: we have them, for the most part
if we're better off without them, natural selection's got us covered

>> No.2366022

>>2366012
But she wouldn't have to repress them if she didn't post them.

>> No.2366027

>>2365948
Wow. That's heavy stuff.

>> No.2366035

>>2366011
When every thread "she" posts in is suddenly about her, you have to start asking why.

Also, "she" is a tripfag.

>> No.2366044
File: 73 KB, 600x400, supern00bian.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2366044

first question: You need them because you are a woman, and without them you would have nothing except tits.

second question: I dont know. But I do know that we would be better off without attention whores such as yourself posting dumb questions on the wrong board.

GTFO my /sci/ with this shit. Take it to r/9/k with the rest of the attention whores.

>> No.2366048

>>2366035
This is the only time I have seen her other than her other thread about monogamy and the first time I asked why.

>> No.2366052

>>2365993
shes' gone?
who the fuck scard her of? wtf?

>> No.2366081

>>2366048
umustbenewhere.jpg

>> No.2366087
File: 86 KB, 484x470, exclaimation point.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2366087

ATTENTION /SCI/ENTISTS

Please quit feeding this girls ego. I know most of you want to whiteknight and looking like a prettycoolguy over the internet, but seriously - people like her ruin this board.

Every single time she posts here it become /r9k/ style threads. They turn all about her and are rarely if ever science related.


Normally I wouldn't care so much about some attention craving undergrad, but when a post about HER EMOTIONS gets over 100 replies... well that speaks for itself.


So for the love of our board /sci/ please please please get off this girls dick. She's a particularly attention craving tripfag. Nuff said.

>> No.2366096

>>2365948
>"Zombie as the emotional-master" is threatened every time you feel an emotion involuntarily.
wat?

>> No.2366098

>>2365993
Read Eternity from the Way saga. Especially the ending.
One of the life goals of some posthumans is to feel ever more complex and/or fulfilling emotions.

>> No.2366102

>>2366087
So she's basically /sci/'s Madeline.

>> No.2366115

>>2366087
this is science related you fucking retard.
and in the OP its not even stated to be about her, i think she's just asking in general.

>> No.2366116

>>2366098
Oops. Meant Eon, not Eternity.

>> No.2366120

>>2366087
this dear god, come on people

>> No.2366127

>>2366096
Zombie is apparently another of EK's pseudonyms.

>> No.2366128

>>2366087
> EK posts a question
> anons make it about her personally
> bitch when threads are about her
stay classy, /sci/

>> No.2366135

>>2366115
If it were, people would have commented ON THE FUCKING SCIENTIFIC STUDIES
>>2365980

>> No.2366171

>>2366127
lol, how childish.
dumb bitch.

>> No.2366184

>>2366128
no, she made it about herself. look. >>2365385

>> No.2366192

>>2366184
Follow the post she's responding to. It's a continuation from another thread.

>> No.2366197

>>2366135
I did not because I can't be bothered to take the half-hour to an hour to read through the articles, synthesize it with my current understanding, and respond to it in a critical way that you and I would find meaningful and useful.

You're expecting people to go off site, read through walls of text, and interact with you all at the same time without providing even a summary of what the articles are about or why they're relevant to this discussion. Yes, their titles would seem to indicate they are relevant, but the titles do not make the point.

You remember in school in the English/lit/grammar classes where you'd have to use complete sentences and ideas. This would be an excellent example of when to use that practice.

I'm interested in interacting with you and your interpretation of those articles as you related them to the OP. I'm not particularly interested in making my own way through them for your immediate gratification.

>> No.2366199

>>2366192
which is a thread which she STILL FUCKING MADE ABOUT HERSELF!
she pretends to be a man in the OP, just to make a femenism thread, so she can jump in and attention-whore later.
this is so like her.

>> No.2366225

>>2366199
IHBT ( ._.)

>> No.2366227

>>2366087
Incidentially, you want science? Here's science. Your observation of over a 100 responses. Objective data collected through an experiment. While she may have been the subject, she presented a problem interesting enough to spark discussion amongst a couple anons at least.

All of us deal with emotional expression and repression. I suspect amongst the science, logic, engineering, philosophical, and mathematical types we have a lot of struggling with emotions; hence, the success of the thread despite your desires to have something more A) structured B) devoid of personal involvement C) formal D) rigorous E) devoid of subjective experience F) devoid of emotional content G) devoid of exchanging social attention H) devoid of empathic embrace.

First principle of science: Do not block up the halls of inquiry. You don't like what we're examining or how we're examining it? Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

>> No.2366232

>>2366197
This one was easily digestible:
>>2365516
http://dangerousintersection.org/2006/05/04/star-trek%E2%80%99s-error-spock%E2%80%99s-lack-of-emotio
n-would-have-made-him-irrational/

>> No.2366258

>>2366227
>First principle of science: Do not block up the halls of inquiry.
Never heard this, but I like it. If we had sigs, I would sig this.

>> No.2366278

>>2366232
Well personally, I took the default position that irrationality arises from denial of emotional being, so I felt no need to respond to that article. Any non-intuitive results? Any thing I wouldn't expect from logically assuming that premise and deriving consequences from there?

>> No.2366328

>>2366258
Charles Sanders Peirce. Inventor of Lattice theory, Pragmaticism, and semiotics amongst other things.
Mathematician, engineer, logician, scientist. Proto-formalist.

Brilliant idea. Million dollar idea: trading card game for science featuring important expressions, ideas, and people from the history.

Example of play: Alan Turing - Computer Scientist: Can't be used to solve non-computable problems. (maybe less effective if used for that purpose)

Players have to solve problems and puzzles using the resources available to them in the form of people, tools, techniques, methods, and paradigms.

>> No.2366367

>>2366278
>irrationality arises from denial of emotional being
Pretty good. The main effect seems to be value-judgments. People with impaired emotions (specific brain damage) can be intellectually above average still, and so they are competent in tasks. But they can't decide what to do. They'll switch priorities and tasks suddenly and arbitrarily. They can't decide what is important. Any decisions that require that ability suffer.

>> No.2366444

>>2366367
I don't know why I never saw that before. I have a friend who's gets into these situations where he has a hard time making decisions. He does strike me as emotionally impaired.

>> No.2367909

>evolutionists

NOPE

>> No.2367926

>>2365360
Emotions are mere chemical reactions, just like everything else in our bodies. Nothing wrong with emotions.

>> No.2368450

>>2365980
the links were in my other tab, i just wanted to finish my replys before i look at them. i'm not ignoring them

>>2365982
>I'd bet you have emotions but you're calling them something else.
im thinking this might be true.
...maybe i feel them but ignore them...

>>2366022
thanks for not posting them :)
i know you could if you wanted to.

>> No.2370074
File: 54 KB, 613x547, cereal guy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2370074

Emotions are needed in decision making, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't constantly question our emotions.

There's a huge difference between rationalising preprogrammed emotions, and feeling emotions as a consequence of rational thought.

Also, EK, were you high again?
I become a total idiot when i'm really high, so if you were high it's understandable. Otherwise- wtf? You're becoming the new aether.
Aether. Is that you?

>> No.2370083

>>2365381
>other animals dont
Time for a lesson in neurology.

>> No.2370087

Asspie fucktards ITT.

>> No.2370108
File: 59 KB, 341x267, you_pervert.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2370108

>>2370074
You have gotta be kidding me.
An embarrasing thread was nicely buried away and you fucking necro had to go drag it up again.

>> No.2370121

>>2365382
this.

without it your just an aspie fuckhead that is obsessed with action figures or toy cars.

>> No.2370122
File: 46 KB, 413x368, trollface.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2370122

>>2370108

>> No.2370130
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2370130

>>2370121

>implying obsession isn't emotional

>> No.2370159
File: 80 KB, 500x333, 2641851560_f5fbb72471.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2370159

>>2370130
oh come on they don't get pleasure out of this kinda thing, it's a rational mind complexity thing where they like taking apart shit and imagining all the parts like tony starks CGI engine disassembler.

aspie have like 3 emotions, NT has over 9000

@OP: without emotions humans wouldn't wanna do shit, see ASD.

/thread

>> No.2370180
File: 47 KB, 500x375, JimProfitScientist45.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2370180

On the surface, emotions just seem like a reflex. A more complicated fight or flight mechanism. But I think the origins of emotions go much deeper. Why is it only sentient creatures can "feel"? How DO we feel? We don't use our basic five senses to feel emotion, therefore there's a sixth sense.

The conscience mind has never been pursued by mainstream scientists because they're scared of the consequinces. That emotions are an independent force that we're simply subjected too at appropiate times. We don't have emotions, we ENCOUNTER emotions.

>> No.2370201
File: 268 KB, 450x348, FMA.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2370201

>>2370180
Bitch, please... Don't make me get my book out.

>> No.2370614

We have emotions for reasons. emotions help us to see and understand things that we wouldn't understand otherwise. it helps us escape emergencies, and pick up the fight when necessary.
tl;dr emotions keep us alive.

>> No.2370672

This thread is still alive?

She'll never go back to /relationshit/ if you don't stop replying to- oh wait. /sci/ is a board filled with lonely retards.

>> No.2371297

>>2370074
wasn't high.

>> No.2371311

>>2370672
What... I can stalk EK on other boards?! WHERE