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/sci/ - Science & Math

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2305863 No.2305863 [Reply] [Original]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110106/ts_nm/us_pope_bigbang

God's mind was behind complex scientific theories such as the Big Bang, and Christians should reject the idea that the universe came into being by accident, Pope Benedict said on Thursday.
"The universe is not the result of chance, as some would want to make us believe," Benedict said on the day Christians mark the Epiphany, the day the Bible says the three kings reached the site where Jesus was born by following a star.

>> No.2305882

When did atheists describe anything as "magic?"

Also, science is an attempt to explain things using logic and evidence. If you don't like common scientific theories, find one that's better. However, proving something requires logic and evidence. EVIDENCE. If you want to assert that some god created the universe, show me the evidence. Discrediting someone else's theory does not prove your own.

>> No.2305958
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2305958

>The Catholic Church no longer teaches creationism -- the belief that God created the world in six days as described in the Bible -- and says that the account in the book of Genesis is an allegory for the way God created the world.

>> No.2305971

So if Genesis is an allegory, what's your actual explanation? Clearly the OP doesn't like the Big Bang. I'd love to see another theory that's actually viable.

Note: quoting Bible passages does not count.

>> No.2305977

>>2305882
See opic

>> No.2305986

>>2305958
Actually if you read the bible it is pretty much an allegory of how we think the universe was made.

Atheistfags, Christianfags and scienfag, that denied and/or take for a fact god existences are damn retarded people.
Since neither side can prove one thing or the other.

>> No.2305987

>>2305863
Was he there? How does he KNOW? He doesn't. The Pope is a gigantic faggot (and pedo), and you're a gigantic faggot for posting this shit on /sci/.

Post reported for rules violation. Enjoy your b&, jizz-guzzling faggot.

>> No.2305990

>>2305971
>>2305971
I think what he’s trying to say is that many things in the bible are allegories and that the bible doesn’t have to be taken literally.
The universe is 14 billion years old but “God” may have triggered the big bang.
“Adam and eve” may have existed but they were in fact the first humans evolved from monkeys, and so on…
Faith still can hold on to some unexplainable shit and creationists and atheists no longer hate each other, everybody’s happy. That would be pretty cool.

>> No.2305994

This is retarded, why did OP post this in /sci? This belongs in /new.

>> No.2306007

WOW! BIG NEWS! THE POPE SAYS THE UNIVERSE WASNT AN ACCIDENT! OMGZ!!!!! AMAZING!!!

>> No.2306025

>>2306007
Actually for the first time in history the motherfucking pope acknowledges the big bang, evolution and other scientific facts instead of stubbornly saying the world was created in a week and is 300 years old. That's pretty interesting to say the least.

>> No.2306031

>>2306025
Yes but we knew this was going to happen a LONG time ago. Religion curves around the times. It always has and always will. Small comforts need to stay believable to people.

>> No.2306063

>>2306025

correct me if i'm wrong but i think the church actually acknowledged big bang somewhere in the 19x0s

>> No.2306078

>>2305990
This could be possible if people like this:
>>2306007
>>2305994
>>2305987
>>2305971
>>2305882
>>2305863

Didn't born. They just give hate to other for no good reason.

>> No.2306085

>>2306025

Being pope has got to be one of the most psychologically damaging jobs ever.

>> No.2306088

No one said it came into being "by accident" you stupid robe-wearing ponce.

>> No.2306117

>>2306078

OOO! i made the list! \o/

The problem isnt people that hate for no reason. Its the people who give religion respect for no reason.

>> No.2306144

>>2306117
Why not give it respect. By no means I'm saying go and agree with them, just don't go bashing everything they say just for shit and giggles.

Same goes for any of the extremes say crap of one another in name of a false pretension that their opinions are right.

>> No.2306150

My belief is that so called “Atheists” are just insecure faggots stemming from Christian families, desperately trying to convince everybody (but mainly themselves) that god doesn’t exist. Fanatic atheists (ironic isn’t it) are nearly as annoying as bible bashers.

>> No.2306152

Pope can agree on just about anything on science.
His main mission, and the idea behind Christianity on the whole, is to enforce people to not use birth control and ban abortions. Everything else can be modified to suit these needs.

>> No.2306159

>>2306025
It's a moderate improvement.

Now all that we have to wait for is religion to stop talking about the invisible sky wizard and focus entirely on the morals and dogmas it is trying to teach. Then we'd all be better off.

>> No.2306165

>>2306150
lol Your "belief"

>> No.2306169

>>2306159
yusss, lets all kill our families and pillage non-believers.

>> No.2306174

>>2306150
>implying that atheism is nothing but a way for an angsty teenager to rebel against his parents

And this is why I look forward to the abolishment of religion: Christianfags who think that there must be something wrong with every person who doesn't believe in their sky wizard.

>> No.2306182

Actually the Catholic Church acknowledged the Big Bang AND evolution fucking years ago you ignorant niggers.

Funny thing. Scientists at first rejected the Big Bang theory because it smacked of "divine intervention" with the Universe just popping out of nowhere. They still haven't quite explained that one and like to ignore it.

>> No.2306187

>>2306169
We ARE the non-believers.

Idiot.

>> No.2306189

I wonder what proof he has. When is his paper coming out?

>> No.2306190
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2306190

>>2306165
>lol Your "belief"

>> No.2306199

>>2306174
>>abolishment of religion

Hahaha good luck faggot. Atheists will always be the minority in most of the world, especially as civilization begins to regress from the current faggotry out of necessity.

>> No.2306208

>>2306199
I dunno.....a good chunk of Europe has been able to throw Christianity off its back (now if only they could do the same thing to Islam). Sure, America will probably outlast the rest of the world as Christian stronghold. But I don't live in America, and boy am I glad about it.

>> No.2306223

>>2306150

I'm glad someone finally admitted the theist position on this issue. Face it, you're not interested in the philosophical concept of truth when you're arguing, you're just taking everything personally. Christians have a mindset that everyone believes in God and those that don't are merely denying God himself. I mean, really, think about it. Christians basically come to the conclusion that since we talk about it and believe in a God, Atheists must also believe in a God because they talk about it, only merely denying him. The debate isn't even worth it since theist's arguments are so weak.

>> No.2306224

>>2306208
Europe is not majority atheist.

Not to mention the sandniggers slowly out-breeding natives.

Atheism probably correlates very well to not having many kids.

>> No.2306229

>>2306223
>>bawwww my ass hurts so hard mommy and daddy didnt hug me

>> No.2306236

>>2306150

Youre probably right. Doesnt follow directly from me, i was raised without any kind of religious/antireligious teaching. If I asked my parents about god, they would just tell me some people believe others dont, nobody is sure.

Anyways, my dad was from a christian family and hated it, he hated going to church 3 times a week just to be told how evil he was and how he was going to be burned forever. This is why he raised me without a religion, he didnt want to do that kind of psychological torture to me. So yeah, in a sense, thats why I'm atheist, because Im from a christian family, and christianity is cruel and intolerant.

And yes, i do want to convince others, although I know its ultimately non of my business and I rarely bring it up (i dont like confrontations), but I love having the conversation with a religious friends how theyre being foolish. Its terrifying to see how such a huge chunk of the population is so wrapped up in something thats so obviously untrue its painful. Its like when you meet someone whos extremely racist or sexist, frankly its none of your business, but its still outright scarey when someone is so convinced they are right when its clear as day that they are wrong.

>> No.2306238

>>2306208
Is it just me or I just never meet someone so annoying with their religion like some scientist are with their theory.

Ok that was bullshit, but honestly I have never had a problem with a religious person, even discussing theology and science.

I find more annoying to discuses this subjects with hard scientist or engineers, just if they teach them at university to have allergic reaction to something different to their opinions

>> No.2306248

>>2306229

Are you stupid? I've never went to a church my whole life. My parents practice Buddhism but aren't religious about it. You seriously have a problem to believe that the everyone in the world believes in the same prophet/conman you do. Besides, I don't enter religious debates unless there's an extremely retarded comment thrown out in the open.

>> No.2306255

>>2306224
>Europe is not majority atheist.
Where did I say it was? My point that it was possible for a large area to rid itself of this ugly plague we call Christianity. It's probably only a matter of time before the immigrants succumb to atheism as well.

>Atheism probably correlates very well to not having many kids.
[Citation needed]
>>2306229
Christian faggot is butthurt, and furthermore is trying to distract everyone from the point (the Christian delusion that everyone believes in God, and that non-Christians are denying it) with very poor ad hominem.

>> No.2306262

>>2306236
And why are they wrong exactly? Beside having no proof of their god (and in the same way we don't have a proof that is does not exist). Their only problem is forcing their opinions, believes and morals to others.

Which is something you are also trying to do.

>> No.2306374

>>2306262

Because they dont admit that they might be wrong. Theres no room for conversation. Like I said, its like a racist or sexist person, its a mindset that you are better, that other people are inferior. Theres no logic behind it, it simple just IS for them and its bad, very bad.

Trying to force your ideas on someone isnt intrinsicly bad, its only bad if your ideas are wrong. Example, people spreading the idea that vaccines cause autism and shouldnt vaccinate their kids. This is bad. While on the other hand, you have the opposite argument. People trying to force the idea that vaccines are good. This is good. Both situations a person is trying to push their ideas on another, what matters is which one is right.

Likewise, if christianity was actually true, trying to force it on others would infact be good. Which of course is why they do it, they dont do it cause they want people to agree with them, they do it cause they want to help others. But just like the vaccine thing, its wrong, and its dangerous.

>> No.2306469

>>2306374
You are talking about extremist factions within Christianity.

Also you are assuming there is good or bad, right and wrong. Neither of this things exist within nature. And now we can argue if humans are actually still natural or not, but that is something for another thread.

>> No.2306481

>>2306182
But Hawking explained in his books that if you use some feynmann shit and something else so the universe becomes like a 4D ball and universe doesn't have a starting time at all.

>> No.2306505
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2306505

>>2306374
You assume they are wrong but maybe they aren’t.
I’m not a Christian, I don’t believe in god or the bible. I’m a rational pragmatic scientifically inclined human being. But still I have no proof that god doesn’t exist. For all I know he may actually exist (in some form or another) and I’d be cool with that. Many very intelligent men believe or, if they’re dead, believed in god.
The truth is, nobody knows. And despite you thinking you know for a fact that god is a lie based on some metal band’s lyrics since you started rebelling against your Christian parents at 14 of age, you don’t know for sure either.
And you trying to convince everybody

>> No.2306517

>>2306481
And what would not be made by a "God" because...?

See this is discussion is kind of silly, till we are not absolutely 100% sure why everything happens "god" will be poking and taunting us.

>> No.2306511

God exists, end of discussion.

>> No.2306531

>>2306505
...you meet that god doesn’t exist is just as bad as Christians pushing on their beliefs.

>> No.2306549

>>2306531
Again, is not bad or good.

It is just annoying having the angst atheist saying God is a Lie You sheep!! and the Angry Christian hitting you with his book.

>> No.2306583

>>2306469

No, I'm not talking about extremes, im talking about all those parents who send their kids to a religious private school. Theres a lot of them, and theyre far from extreme. Theyre just trying to save their childrens soul, a noble endeavor, but whats really happening is their just spreading this philosophy of ignorance and intolerance. Although I think they deserve their freedom, I dont wish to create a world with religious intolerance. I prefer the Dan Dennet approach. Make religious study a requirement for all children, force them to learn the facts and history of all the worlds religion, this more than anything will cure all the brainwashing done by religious institutions.

I believe in moral relativism, theres no absolute good or bad, but to say there is no such thing as good or bad is just plain foolish. Of course theres good things and bad things, even though they are merely constructs of the human mind, they still exists none the less. I dont believe religion will ever go away, I think so long as humans can still be called humans, there will be some kind of religions, I would just like to see a world were the religious people have open minds.

Or as chris rock put it in the movie dogma (gonna paraphrase this) - Ideas are good, beliefs are bad, you can change an Idea, you cant change a belief, people will die for a belief, they will kill for a belief.

>> No.2306590

>>2306517
>And what would not be made by a "God" because...?
Cause universe has always existed and it wouldn't have to be created.

>> No.2306609
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2306609

Because your lifestyle is so much more believable.

>> No.2306615

ITT: Christfags who believe that they are right, even though they were brought up this way by their parents, who were also christfags, and thus that cycled continues; and christfags who don't realize that their own religion is just as right as the hundreds of thousands of the other religions known to man; atheists; aether; and trolls.

>> No.2306630
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2306630

>mfw “time” doesn’t actually exist and is nothing but a fourth dimension that humans, along with other species experience subjectively and it is thus impossible to determine how hold the universe, or anything for that matter, is.

>> No.2306634

>>2305863
Nothing but a bawwing old man jumping on the bandwagon.

>> No.2306690

>>2306583
Well flash news there isn't good or wrong, like you just said those are constructs of the human species. To leave it clear by no means I'm saying go and do what ever you want.


I will not talk about Christian school since I have no experience or actual knowledge about them beside rumours and how sluty their students are.


On the other hand I totally agree with your idea regarding religion education. I'm actually working my way out into making a curse for public schools down here.

"Ideas are good, beliefs are bad, you can change an Idea, you cant change a belief, people will die for a belief, they will kill for a belief."

Those same ideals and beliefs have granted you this chance to smack them over the internet with no retaliation. You are just a parasite of the good work, blood and sacrifice of more noble and just souls (people but soul sounds more poetic) before you. Don't ever forget that. Some times blind beliefs have saved life in a larger scale but also had murder them.

>> No.2306698

>>2306590
Again. You argument is just as bland as quoting the bible.

Things are just because.

>> No.2306700

All the Big Bang tells us is that the Universe was a lot more dense and hot as we go back in time. That's it.

>> No.2306705

This thread clearly doesn't belong here. It's a bait to start religious wars.

Who cares what one person believes? Let's say I'm atheist. Do you care what I or Richard Dawkins believes? Or maybe I'm Christian. Why would anyone but Christians care what I or the Pope has to say?

>> No.2306755

ITT: Trolls trolling trolls by coming to too many false "definite conclusions".

When it comes to the beginnings of the universe, there are many gray areas that need to be uncovered but will take much time to do so. The only explanation that we have is the big bang theory.

The Big Bang theory is "bar-none" the best damn explanation we have. All you gentlemen are doing is trying to spin this theory so it suits your beliefs.

Christian Doctrine should not trump or be allowed to trump any scientific theory, fact, or law. However, it is just as irrational to use scientific theory, fact, or law to attempt to prove the rationality of atheism.

Atheism is rational in its own right: I do not believe in God because his/her/its existence cannot be proved.

The above statement is rational. However, once it becomes, "I don't believe in God because I can prove he does not exist" the burden of proof switches to the atheist, and the argument is just as rational as the guy that says he can prove the existence of God.

tl;dr Drop the damn subject this isn't science related.... sage.