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/sci/ - Science & Math

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2301372 No.2301372 [Reply] [Original]

Hey sci,
Are there any pictures painted solely by a computer?
Can it actually paint? Are there any that can? If not, how difficult is it to make one do so?

>> No.2301388

Define 'paint' in this context. Do you mean, the computer comes up with the artwork by itself, or do you just mean a printer with a paintbrush instead of ink cartridge?

>> No.2301395
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2301395

>>2301388
I mean a printer with a paint brush.

>> No.2301396

Computers presently are pretty much clueless as to what sapients will appreciate. Programming precludes creativity.

>> No.2301410

>>2301372

No there is'nt. There yet been a AI with sentience or even anything close to it.

>> No.2301412

>>2301372
You could write a program to create abstract drawings I suppose, but as to if it was the computer who made the image or the programmer is open to debate...Presently, I'd say probably the programmer used the computer as a tool to draw a pseudorandom image. AI hasn't quite got far enough to develop computers that appreciate art.

>> No.2301437

It would be very interesting to try to program a computer to attempt to duplicate a digital image with oil paint a brush. It would be very complicated, especially if the computer needs to mix its own colors.

>> No.2301449

>>2301395
>>2301372
Close enough...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX09WnGU6ZY

>> No.2301504

>>2301388
I mean the computer generates the image, unlike the printer example. I know there are different types of paintings with different degrees of skill necessary to do them, so to discard that factor, I would define it as something a 3 year old would paint.

>> No.2301510

>>2301412
On a difficulty scale, where solving chess is a point, where would you place this feat?

>> No.2301511

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_Creativity

>> No.2301514

>>2301511
oh shit thanks

>> No.2301525

>>2301504
AI science fag here. Unlikely right now. Computers are pretty good at recognizing patterns, but it's difficult to make them 'create' ones, even if they are just simple stick men.

>>2301412
Abstract drawings might be possible, but they would probably just be based on random numbers rather than genine creativity.

>> No.2301536

>>2301510
Much more difficult than chess, since chess has defined rules and a small board with finite pieces and moves. Art is basically unlimited.

>> No.2301542

Some person created a musical creativity AI, which after "listening" to songs of Chopin et al. could create very good music influenced by the pieces that were input.

Painting on the other hand is harder than this. The question is always, where does creativity come from? What are the prerequisites for a human to be creative? You also have to think about that a human is nothing without his DNA. Like a program would be nothing without its initial code.

>> No.2301574

>>2301525
Kind of like the N=NP Millennium problem?

>> No.2301586

>>2301542
Link to the article + songs if someone`s interested:

http://www.miller-mccune.com/culture-society/triumph-of-the-cyborg-composer-8507/

>> No.2301587

I'm curious whether, given paint (or photoshop brushes, whatever), a computer could copy an image. Can it master technique in painting?

>> No.2301596

>>2301586
yep I meant exactly this. Thank you. Wow I think his AI got really good.

>> No.2301608

>>2301587
How would that be different from it just taking a photo?

>> No.2301617

>>2301608
It would do it with brushstrokes. Placing pixels one by one in MSPaint is easy. that's not what I mean. Kind of like that AI composer, could it recreate the styles of famous artists?

>> No.2301621

>>2301587
don't know exactly what you mean but there are several methods to copy an image.

first of all just copy file or image pixel by pixel. yeah that's boring.

then it could just record your input (what color, what vector you move) and then just repeat everything. also quite easy.

or, and I think you mean this, figuring out of the image how the pencil or whatever was moved. and then redraw according to this. This will probably not exactly copy the image (like a human would neither). This is pretty hard to do imo. Should be possible but I've not seen it really (because it doesn't really make sense for a program to do this).

>> No.2301633

>>2301396
> Programming precludes creativity.
Not necessarily, at least within some fields.

I'm currently creating an algorithmic composition system for my final year project and, so far, I've had some ok results. Granted, my system copies patterns from input pieces.


In any case, a lot of work has been done within Algorithmic composition with regard to computer creativity. Therefore, you could program computers to be creative.

>> No.2301665

It's an interesting topic but the the thread approaches it in a boring way.

You should think of it in two ways: First, machines can "create" algorithmically or apply transformations to some input. You've seen fractal/strange attractor type images and probably heard algorithmic music and whatnot. There's still a strong human element in this to select and refine the features we find desirable (which I don't think is really all that different from the ordinary human creative process- either way it's about discrimination).

Second is "knowledge" based stuff where there's a database of "good stuff" that the computer uses as source material. Markov chains are a simple example. David Cope's stuff is more advanced. You could argue that humans mostly just recombine existing ideas with minor variations anyway, so this isn't a great deal different from the human creative process either.

>> No.2301680

>>2301633
>I'm currently creating an algorithmic composition system for my final year project and, so far, I've had some ok results.

Really? I've explored some of that myself, what are you doing?