[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/sci/ - Science & Math

View post   
File: 14 KB, 400x225, birds.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2295621 No.2295621 [Reply] [Original]

So /sci/, I am curious. What are the odds of two events occurring like this within a week of each other? It just seems a bit strange. Any thoughts?
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hzwLEcsgGXrESs4s0ie08NTqsJvg?docId=CNG.e92ade6d2e
06e7742a47a0ce36e1a14e.461

>> No.2295634

Might be some unknown strand of a disease.

>> No.2295643

It seems that everyone is reporting on acute trauma. I would be willing to accept the Arkansas one as trauma as it was on New Years Eve. However, there doesn't seem to be any reason for this to occur again in Louisiana.

>> No.2295651

>>2295634
could it be anything else?

>> No.2295661

>>2295651
yes.. lightning, hail, and fireworks

>> No.2295670

>>2295661
It didn't appear that there was the appropriate weather conditions for the hail or lightning in Louisiana on Monday. Maybe Fireworks, but that's a bit of a stretch this time.

>> No.2295694

>>2295670
There are many different kinds of lightning, alot of which you don't see. People just probably didn't notice it.

>> No.2295719

>>2295694
What conditions would be necessary for such an event?

>> No.2295730

Very high. You see, one strange thing, any thing, happens and is reported. For the next short while, any similar events are disproportionately noticed AND passed on. Then you have an illusion of clusters of "special" events.

Same with the "celebrities die in threes" myth.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-watkins/celebrities-die-in-threes_b_223222.html

>> No.2295761

>>2295730

I'm not referring to a type of collective disillusion. I am more than willing to accept the theories brought forth by the wildlife commsions from each state as long as they make sense. I'm not an expert in any way. I was merely looking here to see the likelihood of such events occurring with the explanations given. It just appears from what I have studied that such die offs of these birds are rare in such high numbers.

>> No.2295766

>>2295761
I should have clarified. If I was looking for aliens or ghosts for a solution, I would be on /x/. I'm just looking for logical conclusions without jumping to the nutters.

>> No.2295781

>they died of "acute physical trauma."
Either fatigue or darkness leads them to hit a building or the ground at full force. All die. Sounds possible.

If they hadn't said "acute physical trauma", I would have asked about disease and/or environmental effects (heat waves, cold snaps, nearby industrial plant violating environmental regulations, etc)

>> No.2295782

http://www.wmctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13769060

Don't forget about these dead fish

>> No.2295803

>>2295781
I think my interest is peaked as to what could have caused the confusion that lead to the Acute Physical Trauma. I could believe fireworks on the Arkansas case, but the Louisiana case doesn't seem to have such a clear answer. I'm not even linking them, just looking for causes for each case.
>>2295782
The fish appeared to have died from a disease. That appears to be the most logical answer. This makes it highly unlikely that they are correlated with the bird kills. This time, it's just a case of the media making a conspiracy between the two events by reporting them in tandem.

>> No.2295825

"Acute physical trauma" this is a problem because all of the birds fell from the sky, so when they hit the ground there was trauma no matter what.

>> No.2295837

>>2295825
Then what do you believe could have caused this?

>> No.2296841

And now it appears that there was a fish kill in New Zealand. Are the frequency of such events normal?
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8192181/carpet-of-dead-snapper-on-nz-beaches

>> No.2296869

>>2295621
Idk, but the odds of them even existing on this planet and of us being on the same planet in order to observe their deaths is ridiculously low.

Probability hasn't a damn thing to do with it.

>> No.2296879

ZOMBIE FUCKING APOCOLYPSE, FUCK YEA

>> No.2296881

>>2296869
Okay then. What are your takes on such events if probability is removed from removed from the discussion? The New Zealand snapper kill has me intrigued.

>> No.2296888

>>2296869
Based on what evidence?

>> No.2296890

Someone played "bodies" like really loud, and it killed the birds

>> No.2296921

>>2296881
My take is that the bird thing happened and then the news/twitterfags took off on a wildlife reporting reporting frenzy.

The one about the Arkansas fish dying notes at the the bottom of the article that these kinds of fish death scenarios are not uncommon.

People seem to think this one is special just because some birds died not too long ago.
Yet all of the wildlife departments are saying they don't think these events are related.

Here in a minute people will come out demanding that there is a connection and that the wildlife departments are in some conspiracy and then not a damn thing will happen with this.
iwanttobelieve.jpg

>>2296888
>Evidence
See:
>>2296869
Exactly what is says jackass. Just because probability is low doesn't mean anything.
Everything that happens in the world is not special just because it's a rare occurrence.

>> No.2296955

>>2296921
I agree with you, there has been explanations for nearly all incidents. I find it hard to believe that the 450+ birds in Louisiana died from a power line, but I'm not the expert. As long as there is some reasonable explanation. As for the fish kill in Arkansas, that's not that special. I just find it odd that large fish kills are being reported in larger areas. (Chesapeake Bay Fish Kill, New Zealand Fish Kill, and the Sardine Fish Kill in Brazil). It just seems a bit odd to happen in a one week stretch.

>> No.2296998

>>2296955
Sure it might be odd.
But when the experts do come out with an explanation for these events you need to make an effort to understand why that explanation is actually reasonable.

If I talk to someone who is not well versed in physics and I tell them it is impossible to go faster than the speed of light they will usually tell me that doesn't seem reasonable to them. Yet, that is the truth as far as the scientific community understands it.

>> No.2297007

>>2295621

It's Flash Forward.

>> No.2297014

Oil from the BP spill has made it up into the river systems and into the ecosystem

Or maybe some new chemical in the tap water that had made its way into the river and killed a shitton of fish and birds

>> No.2297041
File: 198 KB, 1024x1325, 1292460447813.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2297041

ITS THE WORK OF GOD! REPENT! REPENT!

>> No.2297059
File: 17 KB, 200x200, Yusuke Urameshi01.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2297059

I farted, then I farted again, then I went swimming and yep I farted. Should I see a doctor for this?

>> No.2297077

>>2297014
Kinda funny how it only killed a specific species of fish and a specific species of birds huh?

>> No.2297083

>>2297059
I'm going to have to go watch that show again soon.

>> No.2297092

Guys, we might have to turn to /x/ for this one.

If they can't help (or their theories go out of control) Jeff Rense tends to be good at covering this stuff.

It might be happening to humans too. If this is what the private media is reporting, imagine what they're not.

>> No.2297142

>>2297092
Go back to /x/ you unscientific fuck

>> No.2297192

>>2297142
that's all we need to know about you, thanks

>> No.2297193
File: 89 KB, 640x594, meroka-punt-gun-demotivational-poster-1216299245.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2297193

My bad, sorry

>> No.2297555

Could this be in any relation to the earth's core? I mean, relating to earth's electromagnetic field?

>> No.2297650

It just seems like this a global event. The Arkansas event might have been unusual, but it seems as if these fish kills are only getting worse.
http://www.examiner.com/us-headlines-in-national/dead-birds-louisiana-dead-fish-maryland-brazil-and-
new-zealand

>> No.2297659

>>2297142
It's funny because /x/ is more scientifically minded than /sci/

>> No.2297668

Hmmmm.... birds falling out of the sky, dead on midnight on January first.

What could possibly be happening in the sky on January first at midnight across the world?

>> No.2297684

Forget the birds. They seem to have logical explanations. I am far more interested in the fish. What could be causing massive fish kills around the world. I just found another fish kill report from Florida. What could be the causes?

>> No.2297690

>>2297668
Hmmmm why would birds fall out of the sky in one place
I'll blame it on fireworks
What? The birds show no signs of being hit by fireworks?
Obviously a conspiracy to make this mundane situation seem supernatural because the aliens that made the pyramids shit out crop circles

Take your stupidity and total lack of logic back to >>>/x/

>> No.2297698

they were smacked out of the sky by aliens

>> No.2297701

it's not even that farfetched to happen

i mean, if you take 40 random people off the streets then 2 of those people will have the same birthday (month and day).

stats is crazy yo

>> No.2297707
File: 122 KB, 800x657, american2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2297707

>>2297041

AMEN! THIS IS AN OMEN FROM GOD. THE APOCALYPSE IS AHEAD OF US.

REPENT BEFORE THE GREAT JUDGMENT.

>> No.2297709

>>2297690
I accept the firework theory. I'm merely asking for logical answers regarding the other events that have yet to be explained, I.E., the fish.

>> No.2297721

>>2297709
Why would you accept a theory that has been proven wrong?

>>>/x/

Don't come back

>> No.2297752

>>2297721
Seriously, stick with science. I don't want to hear about aliens, HAARP or any other conspiracy theory you can think of.

>> No.2297764

>>2297701
you mean 400 right?

>> No.2297762

>>2297752
The short answer is that none of us have enough information about the local history or conditions to make anything but wild guesses. Look it up, it will be much more productive for you. Wanting to be spoonfed ideas is not nearly as good as learning to find other people's ideas actively and then develop your own, informed by all the relevant data you can find.

>> No.2297769

PAINTING A BULLS EYE AROUND A CLUSTER OF ARROWS THAT DID NOT HIT THE ORIGINAL BULLS EYE

this is whats going on

>> No.2297777

>>2297752
so you follow the geocentric life model, you think a well-documented organization doesn't exist, and you think people don't ever conspire

you're fascinating

>> No.2297783

>>2297762
As I have been. However, gathering outside ideas and interpretations could actually help further my own ideas. I was kinda hoping that there was a more skilled individual in this area.

>> No.2297798

>Could this be in any relation to the earth's core? I mean, relating to earth's electromagnetic field?
Possibly, but that could only be a guess. Every theory so far has just been a guess that isn't backed by much.

I say we wait until more data arises. It's not like we have to answer this right away like a school test

>> No.2297817

They say fireworks but they're handling them in full chemical gear, even respirators.

>> No.2297838

>>2297798
This is true. I guess my own curiosity has been peaked. However, it would be beneficial to know the nature of these events.

>> No.2297871
File: 68 KB, 620x465, greenriver.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2297871

http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/12/30/victoria-river-mysteriously-turns-bright-green/

EXPLAIN THIS.

ANOTHER OMEN FROM GOD. EMBRACE FOR THE APOCALYPSE.

>> No.2297895

>>2297871
Dye is truly horrific. I guess the rivers turning green on St. Patricks day is also a sign of the apocalypse.

>> No.2297927

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dugway_sheep_incident

Same shit, different century.

>> No.2297938

HAARP

>> No.2297944

the blood rain from recent years is a bit troublesome too.

All of this would have caused a widespread panic 100 years ago, but today we just kinda take everything as it comes. If it's an apocalypse then oh well. Back to work

>> No.2297946

>>2297927
That was a government incident. I highly doubt that the US government released a nerve agent into the public this time.

>> No.2297953

>>2297946
>>2297946

And the military still hasn't admitted it killed those sheep, although its pretty obvious

>> No.2297955

>>2297817
Possibilty of avian-human disease transmission. You have the suits - why risk it?

>> No.2297970

>>2297946
If you look at it more objectively - there is no government. There's just a bunch of organizations carrying out agendas and doing crazy things the public doesn't understand. Some are fairly responsible and others would be not be bothered if an experiment creates widespread chaos

>> No.2297980

>>2297970
Now that is to conspiracy theoryish for me.

>> No.2298020

>>2297980
wow, I can't help you then

>> No.2298052

>>2297970
At least I won't be wearing a tin foil hat. Seriously, any other ideas?

>> No.2298058

>>2298020
Actually, I found real cause here!
http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1435.htm

>> No.2298062

I heard it was more like 2k. And thousands of fish. I wish someone would get the facts correct. This has to end! The poisoning of the water! The posioning of our air! Who the HECK do these people think they are?! Why is it their decision to polute our childrens planet?! We have had our time to make it better, and it is worse than ever!!! Maybe we should go back to a simpler time. Where everything you caught and killed you used and respected. More and more I see us as a virus!!

I’d like to share a revelation that I’ve had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you’re not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You’re a plague and we are the cure.

>> No.2298082

>>2298062
You can always remove yourself from society. One less individual contributing to the virus. However, seriously, why would you think it was poison?

>> No.2298099

>>2297817
If you don't know how something died, how would you handle the corpses?
With your bare hands?

>> No.2298107

>>2298052
You relate the mention of organizations to tinfoil hats. I don't think you the mental health to talk in this forum

>> No.2298106
File: 179 KB, 800x600, 1279158358367.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2298106

Was thinking about starting a new thread on this subject until I saw this one.

Michio Kaku is commenting on MSNBC on this occurence...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZqWerZ8z8Y
Claiming that some sort of physical event, which sounds like I'm sure he understands and has a mastery enough of that he can comment on it...
But then he goes on to talk about how something disturbed the 'lead bird' and as such all the others kamikazi'd or died when the lead bird started acting funny.

Just curious if any Ornithologists could let us know if it's feasible that so many birds just decided to kill themselves because the guy at front started acting funny.

>> No.2298108

>>2298062
>gaiafag teen rant turns into a monologue from The Matrix
Bravo. 7/10

>> No.2298113

Fish kills happen all the time all over the world and usually have simple natural or industrial causes.

Why is everyone so quick to assume that just because it's birds instead of fish, it must have some supernatural or extraterrestrial cause?

>> No.2298121

>>2298099
Agreed. If I had to deal with dead things with an unknown cause of death, I would be as protected as humanly possible.

>> No.2298122

>>2298106
Bird flocking is an emergent behavior. It's possible for the "lead" bird to send the flock into a fatal behavior. All the birds are following simple rules. Stay relatively close to the other birds, fly in about the same direction, and avoid collision. This is all you need to produce really beautiful, and chaotic, flocking behavior. If conditions are bad, the whole flock could also do something stupid as a group.

>> No.2298142

>>2298106
why are you watching that shit? They're going to make a big outrage and present one easy-to-debunk theory after another, drowning out the plausible but inconvenient explanations, and keep going until nobody wants to talk or hear about it anymore

>> No.2298154

>>2298142
The excerpt is pretty good, and Michio Kaku does a good job of providing a consistent and plausible explanation.

>> No.2298159

>>2298142
Because we always ask why. Life is irrelevant if we don't search for some answers.

>> No.2298160

>>2298154
that tells us more about you than about the incident

>> No.2298166

>>2298159
I agree your life is irrelevant

>> No.2298169

>>2298113
The degree to which the fish kills are occurring is unsettling to me. 100 ton of fish in Brazil, hundreds of thousands in the Chesapeake bay and god knows how much in New Zealand. This is on top of the Arkansas fish kill. Something is up in nature.

>> No.2298167

>>2298160
That's not an valid argument against the explanations he provides. It's just disapproval, which doesn't really merit a response.

>> No.2298174
File: 19 KB, 282x323, 1293047473148.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2298174

>>2298106
>physicist
dead birds ......
if there to fucking stupid to have token the time to find a biologist then some conceded pseudo scientist then maybe i would listen

>> No.2298176

Okay, there is just a troll in here trying to bash everyone. Stop feeding the troll and focus on the ideas. Trolls are gonna troll, and if we just ignore him, he will just leave us alone.

>> No.2298179

>>2295621

the birds are just sleeping.

>> No.2298186

>>2298167
I'm aware of that. You don't deal with a criminal by debunking them time after time.

>> No.2298188

>>2298174
It's not Mr. Kaku's fault. But I agree, they should have gotten someone professionally familiar with local bird populations.

>> No.2298206

>>2298186
So Michio Kaku is a "criminal" now? LOL
The poor guy is going the best he can to be public outreach for the sciences. He is doing us all a huge service.

>> No.2298216
File: 9 KB, 251x251, 1278982860405s.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2298216

>>2298106
Interesting. I had to look up emergence, and searched a page on 'emergent behaviour'. I agree that this is a case of what looks like a pattern. I do question whether i agree with the premise that individual components of a sort of hive animal ; birds flocking, fish swimming, colonies of ants, would include those individual organisms completely shutting out sensory stimulus and other warning signs that once something had gone wrong with the lead bird, or even 4 or 6 or 9 other birds amongst them, that they would have tried to act in self-preservation.
For example, I've heard in a bee colony, sometimes when resources are short useless drones intended only for mating purposes are kicked out they die after this with no where else to go, but I would suggest that they probably try not to get pushed out, and struggle against the other bees. I'd also figure that a male mantis or a spider, after mating with a female, when she grabs him to eat him afterwars, his body reacts and he tries to get away. If it was possible to make her drop him, he probably wouldn't hop into her mouth.

Granted in the present case, perhaps some sort of rate environmental phenomenon, grouped with perhaps the birds evolutionary tendency to fly as close together as possible to maximize the benefits of flying in flocks created a situation where a lot of them died.

Also, we have no way of knowing if there were additional birds in the flock who didn't die as a result.

Very curious.

>>2298106

Oh you!

>> No.2298249

Michio Kaku is like a shit Sagan. He should give up now.

>> No.2298491

I guess, we will never know.

>> No.2299152

It's to do with this

http://www2.nict.go.jp/y/y223/simulation/realtime/

>> No.2299217

>>2299152

Yes, the poles are shifting and alot of animals that depnd on these for navigation are getting lost.

Any /sci/ who cna see the similarity?

Poles shifting, animals dying for no reason. Explanations given are shifty